Want to help donate $6million/year to Marshall University?
- Thread starter FlyHawk98
- Start date
The truth normally makes me feel better. You eerdiots that believe being in the Big 12 is going to be all that you need to have success is always good for a laugh.
I would say cutting up a goal post after beating Louisiana polytechnic college university, going to something called the Boca Bowl against a mac school and barely 2 mill from a TV contract is a lot funnier than 30 mill earned this year and up to 50 mill earned in a few years but that's just me. Have a good weekend though.
If you're curious about endowments, NACUBO has a list of US and Canadian college endowments at the end of FY 2013 and 2014. Their list shows WVU ranked at #165 with $534M (#9 of 10 in Big 12), MU at #437 (#11 of 13 -LT not on list- in CUSA) with $106M, and Shepherd at #740 with $25M. No other WV colleges are included on their list.
More fun facts, WVU would be #5 by endowment size were they in CUSA. UTEP and UTSA are both part of the UT system, with a $25.4B endowment, Rice has a $5.5B endowment, and UAB is a part of the UA system with a $1.2B endowment. MU would of course be last in the Big 12.
Of course, endowments don't really affect sports or enrollment (although the reverse is likely true). After all, Swarthmore College is Div III and has 1500 students, yet has a $1.876B endowment.
More fun facts, WVU would be #5 by endowment size were they in CUSA. UTEP and UTSA are both part of the UT system, with a $25.4B endowment, Rice has a $5.5B endowment, and UAB is a part of the UA system with a $1.2B endowment. MU would of course be last in the Big 12.
Of course, endowments don't really affect sports or enrollment (although the reverse is likely true). After all, Swarthmore College is Div III and has 1500 students, yet has a $1.876B endowment.
Compared to...a crappy bowl game with mo fams or real reason of being there and LOSING??
At least we can win in our new conference...you guys can't break even.
At least we can win in our new conference...you guys can't break even.
Marshall desperately wants the game with WVU, yes. This is not up for debate. It is well-established. I don't blame Marshall for that.
Louisville does not have a better team than WVU, no. They rarely do. Maybe a handful of times in decades?
Louisville is not in a better conference. Ridiculous.
Louisville is not a traditional rival of Marshall's. Sorry, but no. Ask anyone but Marshall fans.
This part of your post is preposterous. Delusional.
Most would disagree with you about conference quality. The ACC has no top shelf marquis programs, but FSU and Clemson are at the top of the next layer... I don't dispute that, but there is no way Louisville has a better football program than WVU. If you want to look up the wins vs. losses for those programs when they placed each other (I won't do that) you are going to find a VERY lopsided series. Now, you could logically argue that their basketball program is a notch higher, but not their football program.
Still, I have no problem with Marshall preferring to play Louisville. In fact, that makes sense, but if that is the case, why is it that every time I look at threads or the Huntington paper, somebody is lamenting the fact that WVU won't agree to play the series? Admittedly, the rancor is not as bad as it was a decade ago, but clearly it is an issue for many Marshall folks.
The only folks I hear criticizing the pop tax are the Marshall/Huntington people. You can say what you will about it, but it supports the state's, by far, premier medical establishment. The vast majority of people don't even care that it exists. You guys should shift the focus to something positive. How can you philosophically say you are opposed to the tax in one sentence and that has nothing to do with WVU, then in the next sentence say you would support it if Marshall could get a cut of it? That logic evades me.
Your vocal opposition to the pop tax is definitely going to be perceived as anti WVU, and the reaction to that will assuredly be negative toward Marshall. Everyone knows where that stuff comes from. Morgantown residents pay taxes, some of which go toward funding millions for Marshall athletics. From here, that makes no sense either, but it is what it is. We're not up here griping about it, at least not yet.
Focus on a new method of raising additional dollars for medical education in the state, and I'm certain WVU would gladly work with you and work something out that benefits everyone. I have no idea whether they would be on with some sort of equal revenue sharing idea regarding anything but the basketball game in Charleston every year, but you could always try. That wouldn't be perceived negatively, but that is no assurance they would buy into that approach. You, and everyone else knows, the entities are not equals. Why would you expect that an organization that is several times larger and more powerful would accept such an idea?
Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained but in any event the schools... all of them need to start to work together. That is just common sense. If a cooperative association can be arranged, better things might come of that for everyone down the road.
By the way... The XII announced today that they are ready to distribute this year's conference revenue sharing money. Since WVU is still transitioning into the league, it will get 85% of the normal distribution or between $22 million and $23 million. In addition, the separately negotiated Tier 3 media rights will pay the school more than $7 million this year. The conference money will be around $27 million next year.
http://westvirginia.247sports.com/B...il&utm_term=0_b5300ae947-31d7b6fba2-225034369
Now, as to your response about proximity to large population centers I'll just say this. You seem to be implying that Marshall is in the same situation in that regard as WVU, and that since Huntington is within 8 hours of some large cities the situations of the schools in that regard is about the same.
I don't really think you've thought that through. Neither WVU nor Marshall gets large numbers of students from Columbus, Cleveland, Indianapolis, or Chicago. Those are the cities in relative proximity to both schools. However, WVU is much closer to the enormous NYC metroplex and to DC/Baltimore, and both of those areas have an extensive history with WVU in terms of students. There are large numbers of WVU alums and supporters in both of those areas. That's where the edge in terms of out of state students goes distinctly to WVU. Marshall gets some commuters from Ohio and Kentucky. WVU gets living in Morgantown students from PA, New York, New Jersey, the Virginia suburbs of DC, and commuter students from western Maryland and nearby areas in PA.
I'm not implying that this is somehow Marshall's fault. Neither school has any control over its location or the effects of that. WVU is just fortunate in that regard.
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Saying stupid crap over and over does not make it so.
First, the "premier medical establishment" in WV, to such an extent that one can be said to exist, is probably CAMC, followed by St. Mary's. Ruby is a nice hospital for the small area it serves.
But second, WVUH is a PRIVATE and HIGHLY PROFITABLE company. It does not get the pop tax money. The WVU med and dental schools do. Two separate things.
But, back to Ruby, it is a fine hospital. For NORTH CENTRAL WEST VIRGINIA. If you live elsewhere in WV, some other hospital will take care of you. If you get really sick, you will be sent to actual regional "premiere medical centers" like Pitt,, UVa, U of C, OSU, UK, Cleveland Clinic, Carolinas MC, or the DC region's hospitals.
Because, and this is the point, of all the mistakes made by WV's One Party Government in its 80 plus years, the decision to place the state's first med school in a tiny hick town and in the only part of the state already well served in term of access to a true "premiere" hospital system (because of its proximity to Pittsburgh), rather than in a place where it could have become an actual regional center for health care and science research, such as Charleston, Huntington or even Beckley, was the worst. A decision different from most every other state in a similar situation. A decision that served WVU and dis-served West Virginia.
Which failed. Which is why WVU, to this day, cannot actually support a med school, schlepping off half the class to Charleston and others to Wheeling and now Martinsburg. Which is why a MU SOM and the WVSOOM were needed. Which is why West Virginians are, as I write, in out of state facilities for serious illnesses.
Because WVU looked out for WVU, and not West Virginia.
One only needs to look at UAB and what it did for the ENTIRE STATE of Alabama to see what a tragedy this was and remains.
Every WVian, unless you live within 25 miles or so of the 'hole is screwed by the "pop tax", as every WVian in every OTHER part of WV is screwed by WVU in 1000 other ways. Because WVU is where YOU pay and OTHERS benefit.
So return the pop tax money to the people who earned it, to spend as they wish, and let the PRIVATE and HIGHLY PROFITABLE WVUH fund the med school. Or raise the tuition on the massive number of out-of-state students. Or just shut it down and expand MU or move it to Charleston. I don't care. I don't live in the tiny part of WV where WVU is relevant.
I just have to pay for it.
But, and this is also the point, you are a living proof of what Dr. Hayes said so many years ago. "There are people, most of whom never attended any college, who think the quality of a college is proportional to the quality of its football team". You never attended WVU, or any other college, but think of it as "we" simply because of its name. And you have highly uninformed opinions of its med school and general academic quality. Because "we" (same words as on your DL, no actual relationship) beat Oklahoma State once.
And you are not unique. Which is why every loss by "your" mighty mountaineers loosens the grip of that taxwaste on the populace. Which, eventually, frees up money for MU and the state colleges to ACTUALLY HELP West Virginia.
Sam, you say you come here once a month. You have to be blind if you believe this is a "tiny hick town". It is easily the class of our state... more prosperous, growing faster, with better amenities, and a healthier economy than any other place in our state with the possible exception of the Eastern Panhandle. It's also delusional to believe that a loss by a football team that consistently plays top flight competition is somehow going to shift support to a program that almost never plays decent opposition, located in a place that has been in a prolonged state of decline and decay. I actually do have a Marshall degree, and you're going to have a tough time convincing me that your preposterous claims are valid. I might not get to Huntington every month, but I get there often enough to know what's going on and I do have family there.
There is nothing wrong with CAMC. It is a very large hospital, but it is the regional hospital for southern West Virginia. It is not the top flight referral hospital for specialized medical care. Don't believe me? Check out the US News rankings for hospitals in West Virginia. You'll find WVUH with the highest rankings in 12 of 13 medical specialties. CAMC is the second highest ranked with 2.
Morgantown was a small town when the state's primary Land Grant school was created by Federal license in the 1800s. Like all the other cities in our state, it is now a small city. But as to regions, you can take the same geographic area comprised by Kanawha County and apply that to Monongalia, Marion, and Harrison counties (they would be about the same size geographically) and you find more people living in those 3 NCWV counties than in Kanawha. But more importantly, in the 1800s when the school was established and right up until the huge factories closed in the 1980s and 30,000 steel jobs were lost, it was the Northern Panhandle that was the state's economic engine, and Morgantown was in close proximity to that.
As I said, I fully expect that Marshall will continue to shoot itself in the foot and try to maintain a combative stance on just about everything. Your position is not surprising to me, and I don't expect that you will change it. I do expect, however, that as in the past you won't like the way it turns out and you will continue to point fingers at someone else with blame... sort of like you see happening in federal government today. Marshall and Huntington need WVU's help, not it's acrimony, and this is no way to get it.
West Virginia finally getting 2 party government is not going to bail out Huntington or harm Morgantown. One of the reasons for that development is a continuing shift of political power to the north and east, and away from the southern decline taking place in Cabell/Wayne.
If, after 170 years, and during a time when Huntington actually was a prosperous economic center and Morgantown not as prosperous, Marshall isn't even remotely close to being the top dog and is trending in the opposite direction (indoor practice facility not withstanding), I am constantly dismayed by those who continue with this delusional stance. WVU is positioning itself for major leaps in the coming decades. You folks should be first in line to want to come along for the ride.
Arguing that the 'hole is some kind of economic anything is, of course, foolish. It is a typical town with an artificial economy. Like any place with a college, military base, or other government facility. It is not "real" in an economic sense. It is money earned elsewhere, taxed away, and spent by government. That is, and this is one of the things you would have learned if you had a higher education, far different from an actual productive economy.
Because, just as the guy who owned the bar just outside the Navy base learned when the USN said "Base closed" it is all built on OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES, not actual productive work.
WV is, in no small part due to WVU's failure to serve the state, going to lose (according to a recent report written by WVU's anti-coal far left economics department) 700000 people in the next generation. The massive subsidy of what is just another state college in a state with too many state colleges becomes harder and harder to sustain. Eventually New Jersey's C students will have to be accommodated by New Jersey. And then what?
Because, just as the guy who owned the bar just outside the Navy base learned when the USN said "Base closed" it is all built on OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES, not actual productive work.
WV is, in no small part due to WVU's failure to serve the state, going to lose (according to a recent report written by WVU's anti-coal far left economics department) 700000 people in the next generation. The massive subsidy of what is just another state college in a state with too many state colleges becomes harder and harder to sustain. Eventually New Jersey's C students will have to be accommodated by New Jersey. And then what?
Sam, you couldn't be further from right here. WVU is a strong supporter of coal interests. It can be seen everywhere here. Does that mean that every single tenured professor is inclined that way? Or course not. There are thousands of them here. The Marshall Faculty Senate had no confidence in Steve Kopp, but most Huntington power brokers thought he was the greatest thing to happen since Pullman Square, and let's face it... far more than WVU is connected to Morgantown control, Marshall is literally dominated by local influence there.
Take a look around next time you're here. What you call artificial is, in fact, permanently embedded here. The school itself supports 7,000 jobs directly. WVU Healthcare and affiliates support another 8,000. Mon General Hospital supports nearly 1,000. Mylan Pharmaceuticals supports 1,400 jobs directly. There are several research organizations with large payrolls... NIOSH, NETL, Protea, Hawkeye Research, Exemplar, and others. There is a federal prison, and the regional office for the US Department of Agriculture. Med Express is headquartered here, as is Gabriel Brothers Department Stores (Gabe's). We also have the usual coal interests found elsewhere in our state, but ours overall are more active, and there is a large gravel mine that employs several hundred people.
There is a whole lot more going on there than what you call artificial, but if any part of what we have is artificial, what is it you have there in Huntington that is less artificial? I'm quite familiar with the area, and your logic escapes me there.
There is no question that it will be increasingly difficult for West Virginia's colleges to get state subsidies. I don't think there is any doubt about that, and it would seem we agree there. That is precisely why they need to work together to improve their position, rather than fighting over the scraps. I have no doubt that, if what you claim will happen happens, WVU will be the big dog still standing, but it would be a lot better if everyone prospered by working together instead of a stupid war of attrition you seem in intent on provoking. There is a whole lot of waste in our system related to bureaucracies that can be eliminated, and a lot of waste in state government in general that can be better put to use in higher education.
We won't be benefitting from eliminating that if we are busy deflecting ridiculous attacks. The pork specialists will simply use the lack of unity to rip us off even more.
CT, WVU is not in line to do anything other than be one of the worst land grant institutions in the country. The only people who believe differently are those that actually think the WVU endowment is above the billion dollar threshold.
wvu is/was riding the coat tails of Pitt both as a city and academic institution.
However Pitt took their media market and school and basically left wvu for the ACC where they can sever all ties with wvu...allowing themselves to be more indpendent and no longer associated with wvu.
wvu is entirely on their own...and it does not look good.
Oh and just look at the horrible health of wv overall...even wvus med school cant do jack shit.
Hell, I even recall the victim from LSU of a senseless beating...even told the EMT's to Medivac him to Pittsburgh despite ruby being less than a mile away.
...and when compared to real cities like Pittsburgh...morganhole really is 'a small hick town.'
However Pitt took their media market and school and basically left wvu for the ACC where they can sever all ties with wvu...allowing themselves to be more indpendent and no longer associated with wvu.
wvu is entirely on their own...and it does not look good.
Oh and just look at the horrible health of wv overall...even wvus med school cant do jack shit.
Hell, I even recall the victim from LSU of a senseless beating...even told the EMT's to Medivac him to Pittsburgh despite ruby being less than a mile away.
...and when compared to real cities like Pittsburgh...morganhole really is 'a small hick town.'
I just know you're kidding, right? Pitt doesn't have half the support WVU has athletically, and Pittsburgh is a pro sports city with as many WVU supporters as Pitt supporters. In fact, 30% of Pittsburgh households who watch sports on television tune in to West Virginia games, surpassing the numbers for Pitt.
Pitt has always felt their natural rival was Penn State, and it is Pitt that is largely shunned in that regard, but they have never not felt WV was a real rival. That game will absolutely be back on our schedule at some point. It has been the mechanics of changing conference affiliations that have impeded it to this point. Pitt makes maybe 70% of the income West Virginia makes from conference affiliation, and their athletic budget is about 60% of ours.
There is no question that Pitt is absolutely a world leader in medicine. Their medical organizations employ 50,000 people, and once employed my former wife, but they aren't leaders in any other field. In our little state of West Virginia, it is definitely WVU.
WVU is in a great position athletically, and is starting to get more games on the schedule with out old rivals now that the conference thing has shaken out. We still have Maryland, and future games are scheduled with Virginia Tech and Penn State. Pitt will be coming along too. LSU fans had a great time in Morgantown. The incident you're talking about was a Pitt fan dressed in LSU clothing for that game who ran his mouth to the wrong idiot. When you get more than 60,000 people together in the same place at the same time, some people will do stupid things.
You must be saying that from down there in Huntington with no first hand knowledge of what's taking place around here. The WVU Foundation manages $2.5 billion in investments, of which approximately $1 billion is in endowment as you mentioned, but if you think they have invested in infrastructure down there in Huntington, and Marshall has made some investments in that regard, you should see what is taking place here in Morgantown.
There has been around $1/2 billion in infrastructure development here and the process is not yet completed. In addition, several private companies have invested many millions more in projects related to WVU. Drive around our area, and it is hard to find a place where there isn't construction or development taking place. This is just the recent University stuff, but there is a lot more than this...
http://construction.wvu.edu/
http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/n/2012/10/2...e-residential-and-retail-complex-in-sunnyside
You can find more at the bottom of this page... http://morgantown.org/detail.php?page_id=5
Donations have poured in at a record rate during the past two years. I'm not going to belabor the issue with a laundry list of things I'm aware of, but it is substantial. The Medical School is positioned to make significant initiatives toward development with recent additions to Ruby Hospital and research facilities. The University is adding graduate programs and is in the process of revamping the manner in which undergraduate studies take place. The next few years will see the school add 2,000 students to the Morgantown campus, most in graduate studies. It is an exciting time to be in Morgantown.
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Why dont you post a link that shows that you have a $1 billion dollar endowment? Those are all nice things, but you act as if the schools you are trying to catch are all standing still. That is the major problem with WVU fans.
I believe I said above that the $1 billion endowment is not sufficient.
It isn't, and it needs to be built up. There are various reasons for that, but restoring funding for higher education is vital for all the institutions in our state. For WVU it has to do with the resources needed to compete with our peers. For Marshall and some of the other colleges there might be a more immediate need. But every college needs that funding restored, and that can best take place if they work together to make it happen.
If Marshall and WVU work together, amazing things can be accomplished for both schools.
We have already informed you that saying stupid crap doesn't make it so.
https://about.wvu.edu/wvu-facts
Not $2.5 BILLION, not approximately $1 BILLION. $565 million.
Of which, according to a lawsuit filed by John Raese, about 30% is invested in a single unlisted stock. Bray Cary's WV Media Holdings, which is carried at book value, but is pretty much actually worthless, as the company has never made a profit and is currently in default on its founding loans. Which takes us to about $400M. Of which about a third is not sellable securities, but coal and timber land, again carried at book value before the war on coal started. Depending on the results of the next election, the value could be zero. (And, of which $20M was "loaned" to the money losing athletic program get out of the Leastleftovers, and will never be paid back.)
And of which, about 40% is pledged to cover retirements. Because unlike most schools, the WVUF is the security of WVU's employees' retirement. Meaning, contrasting WVU's endowment to others requires even more downward adjustment. Even though it is already in the bottom 10 of the so-called Power 5.
BTW, UT's Endowment? $25 BILLION.
Your whole point seems to be that you enjoy living around New Jersites and working for New Jersites and wish OTHER PEOPLE would build even more stuff so even more New Jersites could be served and your tiny hick town could look more and more like Hoboken.
The people of WV are finally waking up and saying, no.
You should pay attention to your own words. You repeat this lie over and over. The $20 million loan from the WVU Foundation to WVU's athletic department was paid in full by the Big XII conference the day WVU joined. The Big XII then assumed the loan and forgave half of it; the remaining $10 million is being paid by the WVU athletic department in five $2 million installments. They are deducting the $2 million installments from our annual payouts through the 2016-17 school year. The loan from the Big XII will be paid in full at that time. This was documented in several national newspapers when WVU joined the Big XII. I guess you missed it, or more likely you dismissed those facts and invented your own "facts" to fit your twisted version of all things WVU.
You did take like 5th grade math, right?
Let us review. I will type slowly, so you can follow with your non-alumni mind.
WVU's money losing, non-self supporting, athletic program "borrows" $20M from the WVUF to get out of the Leastleftovers.
WVUF now has $20M less money, Leastleftovers has $20M more.
The DEBTOR is WVU athletics, the CREDITOR is WVUF.
The Big 2, Little 8 then "assumes" the loan. It is the, dumbass, DEBTOR, in place of WVU athletics. It, on paper owes WVUF $20M.
Debtors cannot "forgive" loans. Creditors can. It would be for WVUF to forgive the loan, not the Big 2, Little 8.
Then the Big 2, Little 8 is "withholding" $2M/year. And? Giving it to the WVUF? Because it is who the money is owed to.
Try to keep up, OK?
It is a documented fact that WVU athletics spent $20M of WVUF money to get out of the Leastleftovers. That money will never be paid back to the WVUF.
This is because, and try please to understand, WVU athletics, a money losing deal, did not have the money to get out of the Leastleftovers. Just as it did not have the money to build any of its facilities, pay for its rifle team, or expand the 'hole's useless airport.
Pure taxwaste.
Let us review. I will type slowly, so you can follow with your non-alumni mind.
WVU's money losing, non-self supporting, athletic program "borrows" $20M from the WVUF to get out of the Leastleftovers.
WVUF now has $20M less money, Leastleftovers has $20M more.
The DEBTOR is WVU athletics, the CREDITOR is WVUF.
The Big 2, Little 8 then "assumes" the loan. It is the, dumbass, DEBTOR, in place of WVU athletics. It, on paper owes WVUF $20M.
Debtors cannot "forgive" loans. Creditors can. It would be for WVUF to forgive the loan, not the Big 2, Little 8.
Then the Big 2, Little 8 is "withholding" $2M/year. And? Giving it to the WVUF? Because it is who the money is owed to.
Try to keep up, OK?
It is a documented fact that WVU athletics spent $20M of WVUF money to get out of the Leastleftovers. That money will never be paid back to the WVUF.
This is because, and try please to understand, WVU athletics, a money losing deal, did not have the money to get out of the Leastleftovers. Just as it did not have the money to build any of its facilities, pay for its rifle team, or expand the 'hole's useless airport.
Pure taxwaste.
I did quote wrong figures for the endowment, not having checked them, but that does not change the fact that it is too small for a national university. It only serves to emphasize the fact that we need to do something about that and grow it. From what I can tell, and those figures are difficult to decipher for any school, there is something like $1.6 billion in assets under management with around $550 million in endowments, including the endowments of ancillary organizations like the Alumni Association.
As to your assertions about investments, our state's higher education system has long been dominated by its political system. We have a system where a Governor can appoint the majority of board members to virtually every governing board, making his control of the higher education system almost as powerful as his control over state government itself. That is insane, and is not replicated most places.
A lot more control over those institutions needs to go to alumni, faculty, and students with a nod to the communities where the schools are located. The Governor also essentially controls the various foundation boards, which is where the Bray Cary situation came up in the first place. Many agree with Raese in this regard, but our state is used to corruption so that doesn't even ring a bell in Charleston unless somebody like Raese makes an issue of it.
Aside from the WV Media investment, and I believe it was the purchase of the stations with a $7 million investment that was later sold to Carey for $2 million, you are off target in terms of the endowment holdings. If you want to look, you should be able to find them somewhere on the Board's website.
Those "worthless" land and timber rights you mention are likely undervalued. They sit on top of many millions of dollars of oil and gas royalties that sooner or later will be exploited.
In my opinion, the answer lies somewhere in the middle in terms of the media dispute but eventually it will all come out in the open so hopefully some real state reform will come from it. In terms of this thread, my point is that we need to focus on building our endowment, not spend money making up for reduced state appropriations. We're never going to be U Texas here, but we need to amp things up to be competitive.
I'm not sure where you are coming off with the comments about "New Jerseyites". There are a lot of New Jersey students here, and many from PA, Maryland, Virginia, and New York. They help offset the lack of state subsidies. Being a Marshall grad, I know they are doing everything possible to lure out of state and even out of country students to Huntington with a wide variety of tuition discount programs and special deals, but they have been much less successful at doing so than WVU... probably largely due to proximity to large population centers.
I also can't get a grip on your assertions about building and construction. Drive up and look around. They're building everything they need to take a leap forward, and I believe they are poised to do just that.
One thing that has always struck me as strange is that you can to go a Huntington or Marshall forum and virtually every one has threads trying to disparage WVU or Morgantown... like some sort of complex, while on Morgantown or WVU boards Marshall or Huntington isn't even an afterthought. You might want to give pause to all the "hole" comments and so forth. I mean, really now, we aren't that bad here and most of us harbor no ill will toward Huntington.
IF USPAM were a "national university" you are right, the endowment is woeful. But you are making a circular argument. It is not "WVU's endowment is too low for the level it is". Correctly, it is "WVU, as evidenced by its endowment and 100 other measures, is NOT the 'national university' its non-alumni hilljack boosters and racist president claim it is".
It is, in fact, just another state college in a state with too many state colleges. One with, depending on which figures you use, somewhere between 51% and 65% out-of-state parasites who attend because of the virtually open admissions policy, cupcake academics, and massively WV taxpayer subsidized tuition, often less than they would pay in state where they belong. One which does less for the state it is illogically named for than any such school in any other state. Quite possibly the lowest ranking academic institution named for a state in the nation.
And, no, we don't need to "grow" WVU. Since believing it can be reformed into something that would actually serve WV (rather than be served BY WV as today) we need to shrink it. Less students, less programs, less of everything. And thus more money returned to those that earned it, or freed to be spent on things that actually benefit WV, such as Marshall and the state colleges.
Because everything bad for WVU is good for WV, and v-v.
And, if you ever even ATTENDED MU or any other legitimate college, let alone graduated, I will sign my diplomas on the back and return them to Old Main. (Since you have never been here, that is the name of the administration building).
You have trouble absorbing FACTS when they don't fit your sick and twisted world view. Read this again and try to comprehend: The Big XII paid the WVU Foundation $20 million the day WVU joined the conference. That debt was paid in full; the WVUF got their $20 million back three years ago. WVU agreed to pay the Big XII $10 million in five annual installments. That debt will be paid in full by the spring of 2017. The Big XII forgave the other $10 million. So, to summarize, the Big East got their money from the WVU Foundation; the WVUF got that money back via a lump-sum payment from the Big XII; WVU still owes the Big XII $4 million, and that will be paid by 2017. Do you understand? It is really quite simple.
And not that it matters to this or any conversation with you, I have three engineering degrees from WVU (BS, MS, and PhD). I am also an adjunct professor in WVU's Industrial and Management Systems Engineering department.
I'm a Marshall graduate. I supported Marshall until things started getting irrational. I was there when they opened up the Joan, and was pulling for them when they beat Youngstown State. Most West Virginians were, including most of Morgantown. I have actually spoken with Bobby Pruett, at length, personally within the past couple of years.
Somebody pointed out above an issue that related to political interference in the higher education system in our state, and it is undoubtedly immense. There are issues related to that in every school. In Marshall's case, the interference comes from the Huntington business community. I'm not going into that here... why have arguments. If we are ever going to effect meaningful change in our state benefitting everyone, it has to start with cooperation.
CT is not a Marshall graduate...nor is he a wvu graduate either. IF he did even attend college, it was likely Fairmont...and that's a stretch.
Well, I'll tell you what... I'm not a betting man, but it is really hard to turn down a sure thing. You can spout off all you want when you know I won't divulge private information on a public forum. Find somebody we both trust for verification purposes, say Connie Reed, who is very prominent in Marshall alumni circles, and leave it up to her to do the verification. I will bet you $100 that I have a degree from Marshall subject to her verification. You keep running your mouth... do we have a bet? In fact, I'd make it for more than that if I could be somehow assured of your integrity.
For the record... my degrees are Diploma (Spanish), Defense Language Institute, AGS, Indiana University, (3) AAS Community College of the Air Force, BSBusAd., West Virginia University, BA, University of the State of New York (Albany), MA, West Virginia University, MS, Marshall University.
If you make it worth my while, I'll gladly prove all the above to you but that would take more than $100.
I am making a sincere effort to encourage people to do something constructive here, instead of the usual negative dribble that usually emanates from Huntington, and accomplishes nothing but make enemies. I do not expect to succeed in doing so, but nothing ventured nothing gained, so it is worth a try.
Go ahead and submit your negatively charged petition intended to harm WVU, if you are determined to do so. I'll make certain the right folks at WVU are made aware of it, and they can respond as they will. My suggestion would be for them to circulate a similar petition to save the state millions by imposing realistic limits on the Herd athletic program. That money could then be distributed to all the colleges in the state as rightfully should be happening. If, say, losses were limited to $5 million per year, that would mean $10 million dollars to distribute to WVU and other state institutions.
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You want to be constructive? How about banning yourself from this forum.
Until you admit you're wrong on everything you've been called out on by others on here, no bet...and I'll continue to call you a bullshitter for the simple fact that someone with as many "credentials" as you, would make so many inaccurate comments.
However ct you do shock me...not for the supposed "education" you have...but the fact that you were ever married.
Want to help everyone on here? Leave. Never come back. If Huntington and Marshall head in the direction you claim, then let it...go worry about how morganhole and wvu are going to win 4 games this season. Why do you even bother "caring" if all you do is bash one area and prop up the other? Marshall and Huntington could become a metropolis of economics and growth and somehow...wvu and morganhole are better...and yoh try tonlet everyone know it.
In short...no bet until you go back and admit how wrong you were to everyone on here who called you out...then we'll talk...and even so...its all based on trust that you are who you claim to be and not some miserable uneducated sorry sack of crap like 99% of wvu fans on here.
Until you admit you're wrong on everything you've been called out on by others on here, no bet...and I'll continue to call you a bullshitter for the simple fact that someone with as many "credentials" as you, would make so many inaccurate comments.
However ct you do shock me...not for the supposed "education" you have...but the fact that you were ever married.
Want to help everyone on here? Leave. Never come back. If Huntington and Marshall head in the direction you claim, then let it...go worry about how morganhole and wvu are going to win 4 games this season. Why do you even bother "caring" if all you do is bash one area and prop up the other? Marshall and Huntington could become a metropolis of economics and growth and somehow...wvu and morganhole are better...and yoh try tonlet everyone know it.
In short...no bet until you go back and admit how wrong you were to everyone on here who called you out...then we'll talk...and even so...its all based on trust that you are who you claim to be and not some miserable uneducated sorry sack of crap like 99% of wvu fans on here.
There's a lot of poison, resentment, and jealousy in that post so there is no way to respond that would evoke an intelligent answer. Where did I say Huntington was bad? You're the one calling my town a stupid, inaccurate name, and trying to talk down West Virginia... The University. I happen to like Huntington. I like Marshall too... just not the way it has been led in the past decade or so, but I'm not on here calling it Huntington High, or anything like that. Doing that would decrease the value of my own degree... don't you think? I want Marshall to succeed. I just don't want their supporters to go around acting like a bunch of ignoramus, jealous hilljacks.
Have some class and agree to work together. That's the only way any institution of higher education will improve support from our retarded state government, that would rather finance a Lottery Palace than adequately finance higher education. Or, you can do as I expect... maintain the status quo and watch support continue to erode. In that case, I have a hunch you know deep down which institution would suffer the most because there are obvious differences in the situations that would enable the respective schools to cope with the declining support.
I never said anybody was any better than anybody else. I'm not the one who posts on an internet forum with negativity trying to harm another college. I've been around a long time, but I've never seen anything like that. Not even in the Mecca of negativity in Pittsburgh. As to my credentials... the bet stands if you will accept it. I have complete confidence in the person I mentioned, and you should too... there is absolutely no better supporter of Marshall than her. $100 bet to prove my Marshall degree... $250 for all of them, IF she has confidence in YOUR integrity.
Put up or shut up.
Here... let me do this to see if maybe we can change the tone of things. I am sorry if anything I said on this forum might possibly be construed to be a negative toward Huntington, or toward Marshall.
It was never my intent to have that posture, and if I did say something, it was probably an emotional reaction to the behavior of some who would call my town a "hole", or it's University somehow greedy for using a tax that has always been there to support its programs to serve the entire state. I might have reacted, but I had no malefic intent. I don't even expect you to apologize for your comments... believe me when I say that... it is the last thing I expect from you. I am just hopeful that you will join with reasonable people and work toward a common goal rather than launch into these attacks that serve no purpose but to provoke. Having studied considerably at Marshall, I just know there is the capability to move this in the right direction there.
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90% of your response is utterly untrue, especially when it comes to your supposed "no ill will towards Marshall or Huntington." The worst part is you think I believe you making such a mistake as something honest. Your past and reputation says otherwise.
You failed to address the fact that anyone who says something Huntjngton could do or is doing is shot down entirely by you because if the idea is something that makes Marshall ahead or better or even equal to morganhole...it simply isnt; going to work, isnt possible because Marshall/Huntington cannot thrive at all, or wvu is going to do better so why should MU bother?
Seriously, you claim all this crap anout equality as though you are some sally struthers idiot...im reality, your agenda is very clear...its only good for Marshall as long as its not better than wvu and what they sre doing.
Quit with the lies and bullshit regarding "this is not my intention...I didnt mean to..."
I am not hiding mine, at all...ever.
You failed to address the fact that anyone who says something Huntjngton could do or is doing is shot down entirely by you because if the idea is something that makes Marshall ahead or better or even equal to morganhole...it simply isnt; going to work, isnt possible because Marshall/Huntington cannot thrive at all, or wvu is going to do better so why should MU bother?
Seriously, you claim all this crap anout equality as though you are some sally struthers idiot...im reality, your agenda is very clear...its only good for Marshall as long as its not better than wvu and what they sre doing.
Quit with the lies and bullshit regarding "this is not my intention...I didnt mean to..."
I am not hiding mine, at all...ever.
Please... take a look at what you just posted and note the tone of that, and the way you referred to another city in our state. My ONLY intent is to say it benefits everyone to cooperate. Everyone wins that way. Endeavors like the one proposed in this thread help nobody, create animosity, and insure that cooperation does not take place.
As to your contention that Concord, and Marshall, and Fairmont, and WVU all have to get the same attention from every endeavor or there should be no cooperation... do you really believe that? Entities by their very nature are bigger, stronger, better positioned than other entities. That isn't going to change because of some far fetched notion of what someone believes to be "fair". What is fair to one is inherently unfair to the other. That's just the way things are in life. Life is not "fair". Life is based on reality. USA and Canada do not get the same say in NATO matters. USA is much larger and more powerful, but they still cooperate to everyone's benefit.
If the schools cooperate, they can bring restoration of the tens of millions in funding that have been deprived from all of them, resulting in many millions of dollars for Marshall. That benefits you, the Huntington business community, and everybody involved. What in the world do you care about how much it benefits WVU? Logic dictates that is not your concern. The big whigs will work that out among themselves.
That's a drop in the bucket! My church needs 10 million to overhaul the elementary school. They have collected it in one month from the people of the church. I gave $1500 in donation for the school others gave more.
I have no idea what an "AGS" is. Apparently nobody at IU does either, since it as a degree nor as a major is listed anywhere on its website. If "A" stands for "Associate's" then you might want to know that IU doesn't have a community college. The statewide community college in Indiana is commonly called "IVY Tech" and is unrelated to IU.
http://www.iub.edu/academic/majors/index.shtml
http://www.ivytech.edu/about/
The "University of the State of New York" or USNY (us-knee) is, confusingly, what NY calls its state board of education. The body in charge of regulating education in NY state. It is not a college.
http://www.nysed.gov/about/about-usny
The "State University of New York" or SUNY (sunny or SOO-knee depending on what part of NY state you are in) is the statewide system of colleges, of which Albany, along with Buffalo and Stony Brook, is the best academic constituent. Real alumni of Albany prefer to call it the University at Albany or simply Albany.
http://www.suny.edu/about/
http://www.albany.edu/
A technical distinction, but one that anybody who attended school in, or even lived in, NY would know. Or somebody who has spent a career hiring and firing people, including tracking down people's fake claims
So you have 5 community college degrees, plus a hitch in the USAF, plus 3 separate college degrees, plus two unrelated master's. One of those college degrees being from one of the best public colleges (The University At Albany, State University of New York) in the country.
Are you also an heir to the Spanish Throne? Nobel Prize winner? Inventor of the bottle cap? Have a star on Hollywood Blvd.? Play for FC Barcelona?
The board: "I say we raise the pop tax from one penny to three, and each school gets a penny. Small enough raise not to bother tax payers, does not reduce funding for the only current recipient, and provides great financial support to the other two."
CT: "You need to quit spouting negative ideas and trying to take money away from WVU. We need to work together, increase WVU's funding, and threaten to take away MU's athletic funding if they continue to attempt a fair and equitable way of raising additional funding that would have no negative consequences on any other school in the state. By the way, I went to MU, WVU, USNY (not SUNY), and took some online classes for promotion points in the Air Force, so my opinion counts for more than yours. But please, let me distract you from calling me out by inviting you to an asinine bet on an internet message board which nobody in their right mind would actually agree to."
The entire board: "We're trying to come up with a fair and equitable way of increasing funding for JCESoM without hurting WVUSoM. We're also going to call you on every bit of the BS you pour out. But don't worry, we don't just call out WVU fans on BS, we call everyone out on it."
CT: "Why don't you quit trying to take away WVU's money, and just work together? I mean, WVU is significantly closer to NYC and has a billion dollar endowment, so we matter more."
The board, again: "We're not trying to take away WVU's money. We want to increase JCESoM's funding, and have actually come up with a method which would do exactly that, would addictionally increase WVSOM's funding, and have absolutely zero affect on WVUSoM. And how does your proximity to NYC make any difference in this conversation? After all, WVU targets out of state students at a significantly higher rate than MU, which targets primarily in state students. You're also completely incorrect about WVU's endowment."
CT: "Quit trying to take money from WVU. This is exactly what is wrong with MU, always attacking WVU. We have more students, a higher endowment, better hospital, live in a much larger metropolitan area thanks to Pittsburgh, and need to be the only recipients of the pop tax. Why won't you try to work together with WVU? Oh, I'm also going to compare Marshall to Fairmont and Concord in this conversation, despite the entire debate centering around the funding of state medical schools. While I'm distracting you already, would you like to bet $100 to $250 on my credentials? After all, this is an internet message board. That's what you do, right?"
CT: "You need to quit spouting negative ideas and trying to take money away from WVU. We need to work together, increase WVU's funding, and threaten to take away MU's athletic funding if they continue to attempt a fair and equitable way of raising additional funding that would have no negative consequences on any other school in the state. By the way, I went to MU, WVU, USNY (not SUNY), and took some online classes for promotion points in the Air Force, so my opinion counts for more than yours. But please, let me distract you from calling me out by inviting you to an asinine bet on an internet message board which nobody in their right mind would actually agree to."
The entire board: "We're trying to come up with a fair and equitable way of increasing funding for JCESoM without hurting WVUSoM. We're also going to call you on every bit of the BS you pour out. But don't worry, we don't just call out WVU fans on BS, we call everyone out on it."
CT: "Why don't you quit trying to take away WVU's money, and just work together? I mean, WVU is significantly closer to NYC and has a billion dollar endowment, so we matter more."
The board, again: "We're not trying to take away WVU's money. We want to increase JCESoM's funding, and have actually come up with a method which would do exactly that, would addictionally increase WVSOM's funding, and have absolutely zero affect on WVUSoM. And how does your proximity to NYC make any difference in this conversation? After all, WVU targets out of state students at a significantly higher rate than MU, which targets primarily in state students. You're also completely incorrect about WVU's endowment."
CT: "Quit trying to take money from WVU. This is exactly what is wrong with MU, always attacking WVU. We have more students, a higher endowment, better hospital, live in a much larger metropolitan area thanks to Pittsburgh, and need to be the only recipients of the pop tax. Why won't you try to work together with WVU? Oh, I'm also going to compare Marshall to Fairmont and Concord in this conversation, despite the entire debate centering around the funding of state medical schools. While I'm distracting you already, would you like to bet $100 to $250 on my credentials? After all, this is an internet message board. That's what you do, right?"
Let me clarify for you. Indiana University does have Associates Degrees, or at least they did when I received one from them. They are awarded for distance learning... the only type of degrees most military members can generally work toward due to multiple reasons... frequent movements high among them. An AGS is an Associate of General Studies.
The University of the State of New York has changed the name of its degree granting arm to Excelsior College in the years since I earned a BA from them. They do indeed offer multiple fully accredited degrees, including a number at the Masters level. My own is a bachelors, but you are correct that USNY has always been the body overseeing all of higher education in the state. It still fulfills that purpose, much as does the West Virginia Higher Education Policy Commission here.
I do indeed have the associates degrees. I wasn't aware that there was any problem with that. It shows that, during my career, I attained technical skills sufficient to work in a variety of fields at the technician level. I always thought of that as a plus, and apparently my employers did too since they often made use of my varied skill set.
The Diploma from the Defense Language Institute was obtained from the world's best language school, located in Monterey, California. It is fully accredited at the college level, but offers only associates degrees because they don't offer the liberal arts courses normally part and parcel to bachelors degrees. At the time I went to school there, they offered higher education diplomas but the courses had to be transferred to another school for degree purposes. Their advanced courses are equal to any language course offered at the most prestigious universities, and in fact, many students at those schools joined the military through reserve components to get the specialized language training provided there. It is basically unequaled, and only 3% of applicants are accepted.
The Russian military also has an excellent language school, and they produce English speakers who can speak the language better than most folks in Huntington, but overall they are not as good as DLI, nor do they offer the amazing array of languages.
By other bachelors degree (the one in Business Administration) as well as my two Masters degrees are traditional degrees earned at WVU and Marshall respectively. I really could care less whether you like them or not. Frankly, at my age, I don't make much use of them any longer, but all my degrees benefitted me at one point or another in my life and career. The only reason I even bring them us is because you seem to want to insist that they aren't real. The bet still stands if you want the proof. I could always use another $250.
You're also jumping to conclusions as to where I have lived in life. I have lived in most parts of our country at one time or another, and also in Europe for nearly 4 years. I lived in the NY/CT area for well over a decade and am thoroughly familiar with Manhattan and the northern suburbs of NYC. Virtually nobody is familiar with all of that vast and heavily populated region known as the New York Metropolitan Area. My wife is from New York. She fills me in on a lot of stuff I might have missed along the way.
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Your discussion is about trying to take part of the long established funding source for the far larger and more comprehensive WVU Medical Education from them by means of a petition, and supposing there would not be repercussions from activity like that.
I realize that Marshall has a medical school. So does Lewisburg. But in terms of medical schools, Marshall is to West Virginia what Fairmont is to Marshall. Don't believe it. Come on up and take a look for yourself. My point is not to put down Marshall. My point is to say you need a cooperative attitude to have success there, and that all the schools will benefit from cooperative endeavors. I would definitely bet that, from this moment in time forward, Marshall will not be successful with negatively inclined proposals like this. All you will do is make more enemies, but having watched the fan base there and the population of Huntington for a period of time, I have little doubt that the flawed approach will be the one taken.
