What if?

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Well, if we would have played South Carolina we would have another loss right now.

A blind one legged high school coach could sleep walk through 6 or 7 wins with our schedule.

What have we really accomplished?

Reality is it is another hidden BS 2nd,3rd, or 4th place finish in our division in one of the worst conferences in American.

Mediocre.

Well...we've managed to really have one disaster of a season...unlike wku, FAU, and other teams who seem to repeat it more often than we do.
Rice beat MU for Doc's 1st CUSA title game...where have they been since?
The fact the team recovered quite quickly from 2016 says a lot about it.
Also throw in that MU has never really been out of the divisional race till the near end of the season, whereas other teams are already eliminated well before.
So, while the result is not a bunch of conference titles, it has remained somewhat consistent, which is something that is not evident for other teams in CUSA.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

They also complain about how bad the conference is yet, when the conference improves (wku, FAU, UAB, MTSU) they complain that Marshall sucks and Doc is terrible and we need change.
So which is it? Dominating a bad conference or having some competition?

Your question is flawed. You claim that people complain that the conference is bad, but that when the conference improves, those same people complain that Marshall sucks for not winning the conference.

In reality, the conference hasn't improved. There has been a big drop in the conference from the first few years under Doc, to the middle few years under Doc, to now. The conference is as bad as it ever has been over the last two years.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Your question is flawed. You claim that people complain that the conference is bad, but that when the conference improves, those same people complain that Marshall sucks for not winning the conference.

In reality, the conference hasn't improved. There has been a big drop in the conference from the first few years under Doc, to the middle few years under Doc, to now. The conference is as bad as it ever has been over the last two years.

I think the top performers have just shifted to different teams and many have, historically, not been good. Doesn't necessarily mean the conference is bad.
Reminds me of the Big 12 when Baylor and TCU got left out of the CFP...two teams who, weren't quite known for being powerhouse programs, but were the OTHER top 2 teams of a 2 team conference (UT and OU). You could argue for both but RG3 was the highlight of Baylor prior and TCU was a well known Mid Major program prior.
I think thats sort of whats altered some of the perceptions of this conference, there isn't much stability at the top. I'm just not sure you can fault the conference for that.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I think the top performers have just shifted to different teams and many have, historically, not been good. Doesn't necessarily mean the conference is bad.
Reminds me of the Big 12 when Baylor and TCU got left out of the CFP...two teams who, weren't quite known for being powerhouse programs, but were the OTHER top 2 teams of a 2 team conference (UT and OU). You could argue for both but RG3 was the highlight of Baylor prior and TCU was a well known Mid Major program prior.
I think thats sort of whats altered some of the perceptions of this conference, there isn't much stability at the top. I'm just not sure you can fault the conference for that.

You listed teams who had short times at the top but then dropped down. You were arguing that due to those teams improving, it somehow made the conference better. It didn't. All of those teams didn't improve at the same time. When some improved, the others dropped. If one team is good and the other is shit, the conference doesn't improve if the previously shitty team becomes good while the previously good team becomes shitty.

Yes, the conference is bad regardless of what you claim. Sagarin has the conference as the worst in FBS . . . and they are over 2 points away from the next worst conference, the Sun Belt, which is a pretty big margin. C-USA is the only conference that is rated below an FCS conference.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You listed teams who had short times at the top but then dropped down. You were arguing that due to those teams improving, it somehow made the conference better. It didn't. All of those teams didn't improve at the same time. When some improved, the others dropped. If one team is good and the other is shit, the conference doesn't improve if the previously shitty team becomes good while the previously good team becomes shitty.

Yes, the conference is bad regardless of what you claim. Sagarin has the conference as the worst in FBS . . . and they are over 2 points away from the next worst conference, the Sun Belt, which is a pretty big margin. C-USA is the only conference that is rated below an FCS conference.

I didn't say it was good either. I said it has teams that don't always win, suddenly winning, and that doesn't (in my opinion) worsen it as much, it just displaces the success.

 

[RhinoD]

Well...during Cato's senior year, Marshall was very much alive in the talk of the G5...featured on ESPN, ranked in the CFP rankings, SI did a whole feature on Cato as well...
Then wku took over and not much from them because wku is full of a bunch of pricks.
Then who dominated talks of the offeason last year, besides ucf and their pretend national title?
FAU and Lane Kiffin.
If it holds out, who is going to be a talk of the G5 in the offseason?
UAB...just a few years ago, they didn't have a program and now are the best in their division.
Your perspective may ring true for many facets of what you said, it doesn't seem to resonate with the national media and talks.
Considering the amount of stories CUSA has generated over the course of a few years, from Marshall and Cato to the coaching hires of FAU and FIU...to what seems to be the rebirth of UAB football.
Its publicity and a story that people can talk about...and like the whole MACtion debate, any publicity is good publicity, right?
FAU has failed to do its part in maintaining itself this season, but neither Marshall nor the league can hardly be blamed for that.
I do agree that CUSA football can be boring but how much of it is actually boring vs. ones perceptions of it being boring.
ODU and wku's ending was something as well as ODU's comeback win over North Texas.
If it were the SEC, it would be talked about for months...but since its CUSA, its spoken about for a week.
Thing is, the scenarios would not be different, just the label, and thats the thing people fall for.

So your argument that CUSA isn't garbage has five points...

1. Marshall got a month's worth of good national press 5 years ago.
2. WKU had two good years and got no credit (because no one cares outside of Bowling Green).
3. FAU was mentioned on Gameday for a while last year because they hired a generally accepted dickhead to be their coach.
4. UAB (who is also getting no national attention) is going to win their division after not having football 2 years ago.
5. ODU and WKU (two teams that are terrible) played a close game that ended on a fluke officiating technicality.

Man, that does sound like a great brand of football... Where do I sign up to watch UTEP and ODU do battle at 2 p.m. on the Internet?

 

[MUHerd]

Well...we've managed to really have one disaster of a season...unlike wku, FAU, and other teams who seem to repeat it more often than we do.
Rice beat MU for Doc's 1st CUSA title game...where have they been since?
The fact the team recovered quite quickly from 2016 says a lot about it.
Also throw in that MU has never really been out of the divisional race till the near end of the season, whereas other teams are already eliminated well before.
So, while the result is not a bunch of conference titles, it has remained somewhat consistent, which is something that is not evident for other teams in CUSA.

Consistency is nice, but that it ... it's nice. Personally, I don't accept mediocrity. If you shoot for the top, sometimes you're going to fall ... and that's fine, as long as the effort is there.

The effort just isn't there from the coaching staff. Which is why we have obtained "consistency" and "mediocrity".

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

So your argument that CUSA isn't garbage has five points...

1. Marshall got a month's worth of good national press 5 years ago.
2. WKU had two good years and got no credit (because no one cares outside of Bowling Green).
3. FAU was mentioned on Gameday for a while last year because they hired a generally accepted dickhead to be their coach.
4. UAB (who is also getting no national attention) is going to win their division after not having football 2 years ago.
5. ODU and WKU (two teams that are terrible) played a close game that ended on a fluke officiating technicality.

Man, that does sound like a great brand of football... Where do I sign up to watch UTEP and ODU do battle at 2 p.m. on the Internet?

What I'm saying is CUSA manages to have a positive spotlight on it every year for the most part with a team or story or both, that emerge...and those stories aren't negative. Any publicity is good publicity.

 

[mlblack16.]

Man, that does sound like a great brand of football... Where do I sign up to watch UTEP and ODU do battle at 2 p.m. on the Internet?

CUSA is known for having the BEST pillow fights

 

[Sash19]

What I'm saying is CUSA manages to have a positive spotlight on it every year for the most part with a team or story or both, that emerge...and those stories aren't negative. Any publicity is good publicity.

While I agree with your comment about any publicity is good, that still doesnt make the overall product on the CUSA fields any better. A fluff feel good piece is just that....its news one week and then forgotten the next. The league as a whole needs to look in their own respective mirrors and decide what is most important to them. Having games broadcast on Facebook or Stadium with half empty stadiums and an overall conference strength metric last in FCS is a tough sell to fans and school/league sponsors.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

While I agree with your comment about any publicity is good, that still doesnt make the overall product on the CUSA fields any better. A fluff feel good piece is just that....its news one week and then forgotten the next. The league as a whole needs to look in their own respective mirrors and decide what is most important to them. Having games broadcast on Facebook or Stadium with half empty stadiums and an overall conference strength metric last in FCS is a tough sell to fans and school/league sponsors.

I don't doubt that.
The conference needs to win OOC games to help get its name out there. Be more selective in scheduling opponents you can actually beat from the P5.
Nothing can be done about the TV and broadcasting for now, and I accept that. I think streaming is going to be the future anyway with cable continuing to be cut...but CUSA is doing a horrible job of marketing itself as such.
I also think CUSA is one conference that doesn't really have a team that identifies it...due to, as I said earlier, nobody being consistently at the top.
Is that a problem? I dunno.
IF MU were to have won 6 conference titles during Doc's time, I am sure sports outlets would give MU the face of the conference title, would that help the brand? Would/could anyone else do the same?

 

[Sash19]

I don't doubt that.
The conference needs to win OOC games to help get its name out there. Be more selective in scheduling opponents you can actually beat from the P5.
Nothing can be done about the TV and broadcasting for now, and I accept that. I think streaming is going to be the future anyway with cable continuing to be cut...but CUSA is doing a horrible job of marketing itself as such.
I also think CUSA is one conference that doesn't really have a team that identifies it...due to, as I said earlier, nobody being consistently at the top.
Is that a problem? I dunno.
IF MU were to have won 6 conference titles during Doc's time, I am sure sports outlets would give MU the face of the conference title, would that help the brand? Would/could anyone else do the same?

I said it on another post recently and it applies to your last comments....If Marshall still had the motto and success with "We Play for Championships" then yes, they would be the face of the conference. However, that isnt the case and no other team has earned it either.

 

[The Real SamC]

Another long thread from the football anhedonia sufferers.

Marshall is a small, grossly underfunded, state school in a rusting state and city with a dying economy. In football, we are in CUSA. CUSA is a "group of 5" AKA mid-major conference. The best any G5 will ever do under the current system is be forced upon on of the "new year's six" bowls. Short of that, it is a pre-Christmas bowl sponsored by an unknown product, many in odd venues and some in non-winter vacation areas. Almost certainly against another G5 school or a 6-6 P5 loser. In basketball, CUSA is a ONE BID LEAGUE. "Get hot in the conference tournament and who knows" is the only viable game plan. The best we are ever going to do is catch a few "name" teams napping in the regular season, which does not mean on thing at selection time, and, if and only if, we win the conference tournament, get seeded no higher than 12th and maybe knock off one, or perhaps even two, teams.

That is all.

If that is not for you, then Marshall is not for you. Go down to Wal-Mart and get you some Spamite gear and enjoy.

 

[Ninegate]

Another long thread from the football anhedonia sufferers.

Marshall is a small, grossly underfunded, state school in a rusting state and city with a dying economy. In football, we are in CUSA. CUSA is a "group of 5" AKA mid-major conference. The best any G5 will ever do under the current system is be forced upon on of the "new year's six" bowls. Short of that, it is a pre-Christmas bowl sponsored by an unknown product, many in odd venues and some in non-winter vacation areas. Almost certainly against another G5 school or a 6-6 P5 loser. In basketball, CUSA is a ONE BID LEAGUE. "Get hot in the conference tournament and who knows" is the only viable game plan. The best we are ever going to do is catch a few "name" teams napping in the regular season, which does not mean on thing at selection time, and, if and only if, we win the conference tournament, get seeded no higher than 12th and maybe knock off one, or perhaps even two, teams.

That is all.

If that is not for you, then Marshall is not for you. Go down to Wal-Mart and get you some Spamite gear and enjoy.

Almost never agree with you....BUT you are spot on with this post.

 

[Bankerreturns]

My hat's off to folks who looked at a team with no returning starting QB and predicted a conference championship. You know way more about football than I do, I think.

I still believe if Green hadn't been injured that we would still be playing for a championship. I believe we would have won either the Middle or USM game.

 

[Raiderclyde]

Another long thread from the football anhedonia sufferers.

Marshall is a small, grossly underfunded, state school in a rusting state and city with a dying economy. In football, we are in CUSA. CUSA is a "group of 5" AKA mid-major conference. The best any G5 will ever do under the current system is be forced upon on of the "new year's six" bowls. Short of that, it is a pre-Christmas bowl sponsored by an unknown product, many in odd venues and some in non-winter vacation areas. Almost certainly against another G5 school or a 6-6 P5 loser. In basketball, CUSA is a ONE BID LEAGUE. "Get hot in the conference tournament and who knows" is the only viable game plan. The best we are ever going to do is catch a few "name" teams napping in the regular season, which does not mean on thing at selection time, and, if and only if, we win the conference tournament, get seeded no higher than 12th and maybe knock off one, or perhaps even two, teams.

That is all.

If that is not for you, then Marshall is not for you. Go down to Wal-Mart and get you some Spamite gear and enjoy.

Excellent post!! Sums up the C-USA optics exactly. Main differences are to substitute MTSU, Murfreesboro, prosperous economy in an rapidly growing city (now 138,000 vs 44,922 in our first football meeting in the 1-AA playoffs in 1992), and in-person fan base that’s skewing older along with a handful from church groups that get half-price tickets. It’s a struggle to get stadium half full especially as weather gets colder. That loyalty challenge was even present in our 1-AA days 25 years ago and didn’t really get solved long term, aside from a few notable games and some with disappointing losses.

The state funded, underfunded part is identical with leadership not as forward thinking as needed. One example: our FM radio footprint got smaller because MT radio network flagship station switched to AM and other weaker FM signals dotted throughout Middle Tennessee. We were on a 100,000 watt stick prior to this year in Murfreesboro/Nashville; now it’s 5,000 Watts AM (day—1,000 at night) and 20,000 watt FM sports station covering the metro area of approximately 1.6 million. It’s truly harder to find us, and our newspapers (Gannett owned) don’t cover C-USA close to what $EC gets with Tennessee and Vanderbilt. We also compete with OVC (Tenn. State, primarily) along with NFL and NHL in column inches. Marshall and MTSU are quite a bit alike when it comes to administration and opportunities. We’re also fighting to get a law school, that the Tennessee Higher Education Commission nixed in an 8-5 vote about three weeks ago (move Valparaiso’s to Tenn). In January, our State Senator is pushing for us to acquire one, which would be a great academic boost, and hopefully there is political support but that remains to be seen. That’s what’s needed—alumni of well paying professionals supporting athletics and scholarship foundations to make us institutionally stronger.

Sounds like we have good common ground, now it’s just where members conferences can get stronger nationally that will be the heavy lift in the years ahead. P-5 and G-5 is really a story of “haves and have nots”. We have to push each other towards getting better, know it’s far easier said than done.

 

[pdbailey]

I find it amazing that the most winning team in our league didn't even have a football team 2 years ago.
Yep, they are ahead of us who was the winningest team in the decade of the 90's. Teams used us as a model.
I was watching UCF yesterday and thought back how once upon a time we were more successful than them. Look at them now. National recognition and packed stadium.

Clark has done a great job at UAB, but they were given special allowances by the NCAA to take extra scholarships to re-build the program, and players that signed in 2016 that didn't have a redshirt year available did not have a year without playing count against them. UAB's 2016 recruiting class had 49 recruits with 40 being JUCOs. As a result, UAB has between 35-40 Seniors with a good portion in the 23-24 year old range so they should be pretty damn good due to the experience level of the squad.

 

[herdalicious]

I still believe if Green hadn't been injured that we would still be playing for a championship. I believe we would have won either the Middle or USM game.

I avoid that rabbit hole, because deep down inside it is a box marked "What if...Chase Litton" and I just can't bring myself to open it.

 

[johns_1124]

Marshall is a small, grossly underfunded, state school

FYI, MU is not a State School.

 

[muthed]

FYI, MU is not a State School.

If MU is not a State School, what would you classified as?

 

[goherdorgohome2]

If MU is not a State School, what would you classified as?

Not the flagship school... so probably more like a state school..

 

[goherdorgohome2]

What if we win the next 2 games and end up 8-3. In spite of everything do we celebrate a solid season or do we call it a bad season? I don't care what your answer is I am just curious.

Celebrate the season and fire Doc. No excuse we shouldn’t have more championships then we do since doc took over.

Bowls are good, championships are better..!

 

[johns_1124]

If MU is not a State School, what would you classified as?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_University

At one time MU was a Library of Congress Repository, Mot too many Schools get that distinction.

Not the flagship school... so probably more like a state school..

So if your not that Flagship school, you must be a state school? Spoken like someone who has never stepped foot in a University.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Good golly, I hate to envision what Huntington and Marshall will be in 20 years. Maybe population of 30K with median income of just above minimum wage. MU struggling to keep a 10K enrollment. Like a scene from Blade Runner, with only an Appalachian theme.

Hell, at least we'll have one recovery house for every 5 residents.

 

[The Real SamC]

FYI, MU is not a State School.

Perhaps the dumbest thing ever said here.

http://www.wvlegislature.gov/WVCODE/Code.cfm?chap=18B&art=3#03

Not the flagship school... so probably more like a state school..

A "flagship" is a naval term meaning a ship upon which a "flag officer" meaning an admiral is aboard. In higher education it is a puffery term, generally meaning "named for a state" or more truthfully "lots of non-alumni own our tee shirts". It has no legal or college ranking meaning. The actual classification of colleges is done by multiple groups, most people use the Carnegie system or the US News system. Carnegie classifies MU as "Master's - Larger", the 4th of its 16 classifications. US News classifies MU as "Regional (South)" which is the 3rd of its 8 classifications, although the US News system is really just 8 types not that any one type is "first" and another "second" and so on.

 

[johns_1124]

Sammy,

I must commend you on your feeble attempt top justify your stace with WV-State legislation which has nothing to do with the discernment of what continues a State and Federal Research University. Your continual moronic attempt to label MU "State" devalues everyone who has a Degree.

Then you go on and attempt to quote Carnegie without citing your sources, mixed in with US News regional classification, which has nothing to do with the argument at hand. It's only for quantitative rating purposes. You last post is spoken like a person who never taken a class at MU in his life. Let alone acquired a undergraduate degree.

Yagi already thinks your the dumbest guy in the forum, do you really want me to jump on the bandwagon too?

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Sammy,

I must commend you on your feeble attempt top justify your stace with WV-State legislation which has nothing to do with the discernment of what continues a State and Federal Research University. Your continual moronic attempt to label MU "State" devalues everyone who has a Degree.

Then you go on and attempt to quote Carnegie without citing your sources, mixed in with US News regional classification, which has nothing to do with the argument at hand, only for quantitative rating purposes. You last post is spoken like a person who never taken a class at MU in his life. Let alone acquired a undergraduate degree.

Yagi already thinks your the dumbest guy in the forum, do you really want me to jump on the bandwagon too?

johns - beating YAGS to the punch, but I think you meant "constitutes" above. I like these threads like a toothache!

 

[The Real SamC]

Idiot:

Leaving out New York and Pennsylvania, which have some schools with a odd hybrid status that most sources describe as "state related", there are two types of schools. Public and private. MU, WVU, WVS "U", Concord, Glenville, et al, are public schools. STATE SCHOOLS. Every item on the campus, and the campus itself, is the property of the STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA.

To argue otherwise is ignorant. You do not know what you are talking about.

 

[johns_1124]

johns - beating YAGS to the punch, but I think you meant "constitutes" above. I like these threads like a toothache!

I know sometimes Andriod's Auto-correct beats me out. I think our friend Un-Real Sam knows what i'm talking about.

 

[The Real SamC]

"Un real".

Well, since, I went to a private school, I should be able to understand. You know, Marshall, the private school.

I just just checked www.marshall.edu

You should call them. Call up Doc Gilbert ASAP. Huge mistake.

They seem to think MU is a public school under the control of a Board of Governors appointed by the Governor of West Virginia with the advise and consent of the Legislature.

Call him a moron.