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"Clearly" not the guy?

Aaron Perkins

Aaron Perkins

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Jan 9, 2006
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I keep reading about this one guy being "not the guy." It is "clear he is not the guy," and so forth

yet, compared to our all time leading passer...

Through 23 games

5,623 yards to 5,565 yards
64.3 completion percentage to 65.7
7.9 yards per passing attempt compared to 7
237 yards rushing and 9 touchdowns compared to -1 yard rushing and 0 touchdowns
34 touchdown passes compared to 52 touchdown passes
20 interceptions compared to 22 interceptions

9 losses compared to 12
14 wins compared to 11

The guy who is "clearly not the guy," is the guy on the left.

Now, is he better than the other guy in every stat....nope. But is he "clearly" not the guy when compared to the best stat guy we have literally ever had......

And many want to speak about wins and losses being the end all be all, welp, the proof is in the numbers, and the "guy who is clearly not the guy," is better than one of our best ever through the same point in their careers.

I saw one play all year that made me possibly even doubt Grant in a little tiny bit, and it was when he dipped out of bounds early before getting a first down. Well, if you watch enough football you see that happen every single game, and this was a guy who we have never seen do that, who did it three weeks after suffering a serious concussion.

I know NOTHING i will say will ever change the mind of anyone, at all, but....

Oh well, GO HERD, and Merry Christmas to all!!!
 
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What are 4th quarter stats for each QB, when game is on the line?

How many times was each QB sacked? Rushing yards for each QB? Fumbles lost for each QB?

Not pointing fingers, but just curious to know, if those stats are available. Also, how did each QB do during the big games, i.e., games with conference title on the line, bowl games, against ranked opponents, etc.
 
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Aaron Perkins said:
I keep reading about this one guy being "not the guy." It is "clear he is not the guy," and so forth

yet, compared to our all time leading passer...

Through 23 games

5,623 yards to 5,565 yards
64.3 completion percentage to 65.7
7.9 yards per passing attempt compared to 7
237 yards rushing and 9 touchdowns compared to -1 yard rushing and 0 touchdowns
34 touchdown passes compared to 52 touchdown passes
20 interceptions compared to 22 interceptions

9 losses compared to 12
14 wins compared to 11

The guy who is "clearly not the guy," is the guy on the left.

Now, is he better than the other guy in every stat....nope. But is he "clearly" not the guy when compared to the best stat guy we have literally ever had......

And many want to speak about wins and losses being the end all be all, welp, the proof is in the numbers, and the "guy who is clearly not the guy," is better than one of our best ever through the same point in their careers.

I saw one play all year that made me possibly even doubt Grant in a little tiny bit, and it was when he dipped out of bounds early before getting a first down. Well, if you watch enough football you see that happen every single game, and this was a guy who we have never seen do that, who did it three weeks after suffering a serious concussion.

I know NOTHING i will say will ever change the mind of anyone, at all, but....

Oh well, GO HERD, and Merry Christmas to all!!!
Click to expand...


Solid breakdown. IMO the biggest issue I have with Wells is that he seems to make some really bad throws towards the end of games and crucial drives. Fans do not have confidence in him to be the guy and lead us to a win. He did it once this year against ODU, but every other time he did not succeed. That being said....I love Wells and hope he really makes a jump next year in the right direction. I also personally believe some of his abilities or lack there of at the end of games is on the OC. Example of this, is right before the half in the bowl game we are driving, 3 timeouts and are running the ball at will. Wells is wayyy off target the whole game so we should have been running the ball or making Wells throw short passes to extend the running game. Instead we go for the long ball(like we have all season) and its thrown(not well) and is picked off. Killing the drive and momentum right before half. But I will always support and player that is in the green and white! Go HERD!
 
Without diving too much into it, that was Cato's issue early on his career too. 4th quarter let downs and interceptions, remember against Ohio for one. Now I want to go back and look, haha.

My point is simple though really. Is he Cato? Is he better than Cato? I dont know, i dont think so, not many are, but maybe he will be. However, for some to say he is "clearly" not the guy, and being ready to bail on a guy who is putting up Cato like numbers for the first part of his career seems a bit much.
 
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Aaron Perkins said:
Without diving too much into it, that was Cato's issue early on his career too. 4th quarter let downs and interceptions, remember against Ohio for one. Now I want to go back and look, haha.

My point is simple though really. Is he Cato? Is he better than Cato? I dont know, i dont think so, not many are, but maybe he will be. However, for some to say he is "clearly" not the guy, and being ready to bail on a guy who is putting up Cato like numbers for the first part of his career seems a bit much.
Click to expand...


See I remember him being a guy who got it done. I guess we remember history as we see fit. Also knew that him and shu kept us in any game and we were never out. Batman and robin. I believe Wells needs a Robin....
 
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I agree….the bowl game the game plan was obviously to win that game on that day was to rely heavily on the defense, heavily on the running game, and to keep Wells in the game and upright….to make sure that happened with him very recently being cleared of concussion, the plan was to get the ball out quick and create some 1 on 1 situations and see if we can make a play.

For about 53-54 minutes that plan was working pretty well, but the fumble at the end and some untimely penalties were the big downfalls.

I’m excited to see what Huff has coming in, there certainly seems to be some instant help just a few weeks away and some guys that on paper certainly look like they can create competition for others and there’s nothing better than competition in each of those rooms.

I pulled a Perkins and figured up only 36 weeks til game week!!
 
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cincyherdfan said:
Maybe he needs a Robin”son”?
Click to expand...
Well Done GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY
 
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I found it laughable people were comparing Grant to the LA QB Lewis, who was a 6th year senior.
I still contend Cramsey is more of an issue than Wells and puts Wells and the O in tough positions by some mind boggling play callling
 
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Ok, so I am kinda bored, haha, just looked at each game in 2011 and 2012, haha

I am going to try my best NOT to skew this to make my point look better

2011 4th quarter stuff
WVU loss - 0 TD's
USM - 0 TD
Ohio - O TD
VT - 0 TD
Lville - 1 HUGE TD pass with 1:49 to go to win it
UCF - 0 TD
Rice - 0 TD, Graham started
Houston - 1 TD down 42, AJ Started
UAB - 1 TD up 45 points at the time, AJ started
Tulsa - 0 TD
Memphis - 0 TD, 1 TD for Memphis actually off a sack fumble of Cato, two late rushing TD's by running backs keep marshall in bowl contention
ECU - 0 TD's but we won to go to a bowl
FIU - late TD to put us up 10 and win bowl

2012
WVU - 1 TD down 36
WCU - 0 TD but up a ton
Ohio - 0 TD, late interception to end game
Rice - 0 TD, won the game in OT
Purdue - 2 TD
Tulsa - 1 TD, lost, had 2 4th quarter turnover on downs on incomplete passes on 4th and 7 or less
USM - 0 TD
UCF - 1 TD but down 37 when threw it
Memphis - 1 big TD late to seal game
UAB - 1 td late to cut the lead to 7, didnt get the onside kick, we were down 31 - 7 and scored 17 in the 4th quarter, lost
Houston - 0 TD
ECU - 0 TD but got hurt

We did go from 7 - 6 and a bowl win to 5 - 7 and no bowl

Wells went from 7 - 3 to 7 - 6
 
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I’m really not sure why this is such a difficult conversation to be had. Wells isn’t the problem. The fact we have no other QB on the roster to push him/replace him is the problem. Hopefully that changes this off-season with the 3 we have coming in. If Wells is the best man for the job, we should have a guy behind him pushing to make him better. So if he falls into another one of his slumps/gets hurt, our season doesn’t go off the rails like it has the past two seasons with him under center.
 
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Sean Hammond said:
I’m really not sure why this is such a difficult conversation to be had. Wells isn’t the problem. The fact we have no other QB on the roster to push him/replace him is the problem. Hopefully that changes this off-season with the 3 we have coming in. If Wells is the best man for the job, we should have a guy behind him pushing to make him better. So if he falls into another one of his slumps/gets hurt, our season doesn’t go off the rails like it has the past two seasons with him under center.
Click to expand...
Exactly. We need qb's to push him and it makes the whole offense better. I just can't believe the qb position at Marshal is so well, weak. Someone dropped the ball on that. It is like a baseball team with one good pitcher in the rotation. Or not having a backup point guard. The qb is the most important position on the team. Period. We don't have depth. It has to hurt the competition, the practice reps, the 2 and 3 guys not getting to work with multiple qb's. etc.

I am surprised honestly that Huff didn't go tot the portal or Juco and find some seasoned qb's or at least one to bring into camp. From 1 to 2 at Marshall is a huggggge drop off in production. It needs addressed.
 
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One thing that isn't addressed is the ability to demonstrate leadership and have the guys working with you rally around you. Maybe I am just missing it with Grant, but I don't think he possesses the trait naturally. There is virtually zero interaction with anyone on the sideline, just odd - stands by himself, talks to no one. IMO that is what helped brew the meltdown last year. I had hoped that the leadership skills would grow this year with the changes that occurred within the Shewey. It hasn't developed. Now, I fear he is going to deal with the fear of being hit. Yes, I know he was literally just cleared from concussion protocol, but the play ducking out of bounds (when the game is on the line) worries me BIG TIME. Who knows, maybe having others in the QB room to push him will change him. I don't root for any Marshall player to fail, I think Grant loves Marshall and his desire to be here and be the QB for the Herd is admirable, but there is more to being "the guy" than just numbers.
 
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Here’s a few stats that weren’t mentioned:
P5 opponents in those 23 games
Cato 5
Wells 0

FCS games
Cato 1
Wells 2

Average SOS
Cato 80 (56 and 104)
Wells 112.5 (119 and 106)

How many wins you think Wells has if you replace one FCS game and 4 G5 games with P5 opponents? When we watered down the schedule for Doc and CUSA fell apart after 2012, Cato won two East titles, one conference title and went 23-5 against the type schedules Wells has to play.

I like Wells and hope he improves, but this type of comparison is a disgrace to Cato and his ability.
 
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Does anyone really think the kids coming in wil do any better? Against D1 college competition rather than high school teams?
Especially if Crapsey is back?
If so, let me know the dispensary you go to.
 
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TwolfHerdfan said:
Does anyone really think the kids coming in wil do any better? Against D1 college competition rather than high school teams?
Especially if Crapsey is back?
If so, let me know the dispensary you go to.
Click to expand...


I definitely do not. The qb depth(lack there of) is Cramseys fault. He has been here long enough to get a solid qb room and grow the qbs we have. He has done neither.
 
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TwolfHerdfan said:
Does anyone really think the kids coming in wil do any better? Against D1 college competition rather than high school teams?
Especially if Crapsey is back?
If so, let me know the dispensary you go to.
Click to expand...
True freshman QBs have succeeded. Especially in G5. Tulane did it last year and MTSU did it this year
 
HerdGreen said:
True freshman QBs have succeeded. Especially in G5. Tulane did it last year and MTSU did it this year
Click to expand...
Again, you are not considering the Crapsey factor. He couldn’t help Green and he hasn’t helped Grant.
We can hope all the hell we want but I doubt it turns out the way any of us would like.
 
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Rock98Dog said:
Here’s a few stats that weren’t mentioned:
P5 opponents in those 23 games
Cato 5
Wells 0

FCS games
Cato 1
Wells 2

Average SOS
Cato 80 (56 and 104)
Wells 112.5 (119 and 106)

How many wins you think Wells has if you replace one FCS game and 4 G5 games with P5 opponents? When we watered down the schedule for Doc and CUSA fell apart after 2012, Cato won two East titles, one conference title and went 23-5 against the type schedules Wells has to play.

I like Wells and hope he improves, but this type of comparison is a disgrace to Cato and his ability.
Click to expand...
Ever watch Cato on qb runs. Seems like whenever he made an end run he would "slip" when he turned the corner, just before the lb was about to tackle him.
 
The QB from Incarnate Word is in the portal. He was essentially not recruited out of HS because he came from a triple option HS team. 24/7 now rates him with a 91 grade and he’s the second highest rated QB in the portal behind only the Ewers kid who is going from Ohio State to Texas.

he already has major interest. Lane Kiffen saw his film and was so impressed he rushed to get him on campus before the dead period.

moral of the story is there are players out there who can have an immediate impact and hopefully we signed a few.
 
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After reading through the threads, I’m clearly convinced that Perkins is not “the guy”.
 
College football is now portal ball. You almost have to reinvent your team every year. It is like typing a letter, but each time you do, the keyboard has been changed.
 
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“Rico” from Fanville of Dr. Pepper is available. He has two years of eligibility and “Rico’s time is now.”
 
Herd-in-ATL said:
I'm sorry Wells ducking out of bounds 2 yards short of a first down told me all I needed to know. I want a competitor leading my team.
Click to expand...
Sure, concussion be dammed. You should get those 2 yards and get blown up by the DB that had a 30 yard run to placate Herd in atl. It told me he was not ready to play and they should have started Zaban. Not sure your experience with concussions but the effects don’t magically go away a couple weeks later.
 
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MU PIKE said:
Sure, concussion be dammed. You should get those 2 yards and get blown up by the DB that had a 30 yard run to placate Herd in atl. It told me he was not ready to play and they should have started Zaban. Not sure your experience with concussions but the effects don’t magically go away a couple weeks later.
Click to expand...
Our medical team sucks for clearing him then. It was 2 yards and he would have only taken a legal hit if he was going to be hit at all.
 
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He wasn’t close to 100% in the bowl game, I would bet.
High passes, stepping out of bounds not to get hit. He’s never been afraid to get hit before.
Likely knew a big hit and he is done. Thus any remote chance we had to win that gane would be done. Maybe the coaches told him not to take a bunch of hits.

It’s easy to clear concussion protocol
 
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I can cherry pick stats to create whatever narrative I want too. Let's compare Cato and Wells second season as starters I'm not going to talk about the teams records because that 2012 defense might be the worst in school history. But, despite the regression in record due to that putrid Rippon led defense, it was obvious Cato was improving and showing the signs of the special player he became.

Wells on the other hand has regressed somewhat. He has an incredible arm, but his decision making and untimely turnovers have been a factor in several games, and not in a good way. He still gives the team as currently constructed the best chance to win, but I'm taking second year Cato over wells all day every day as my QB and it's not even close.

Cato
CMPATTCMP%YDSAVGTDINTLNGRTG
40658469.54,2017.2371172147.1

Wells
CMPATTCMP%YDSAVGTDINTLNGRTG
29544566.33,5327.9161365139.0
 
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