I can see how the Big 12 might be reshuffled if & when the other other 9 & UT decide they cannot coexist which is a realistic possibility, but how the hell do you figure the MAC will implode? They have had newer members come & go, but that conference has a hardcore 9-10 long term members who are not looking to leave.
MU's Case for AAC
- Thread starter GoHerdMarshallYes
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Agree. The core of MAC schools know where they stand and they are fine with it. It's gotta be one of the more stable leagues in the country because of that.
Plus, there are very few, if any, in that league that have any dreams of being anywhere else.
MAC - There was a good episode on the MAC on HBO's Real Sports show a few years ago, and Charleston's Dave Weekley show has had some guests on the same subject as well. Here goes:
First the MAC TV deal expires after the 26 football season. Yes, that seems like a long time, but everything runs out eventually. Of course, this was a massive over-bid in today's terms, left over from an era when "everybody" had cable or dish and "everybody" paid ESPN big $$, even if they did not like sports. Something "cord cutting" has freed people from, and by then who knows what the landscape will be? How many people do you know that would not, given free choice, pay a cent for TV sports? I know plenty.
So, the MACers have, even with their current TV $$, have huge subsidy rates. None under 60%, some upwards of 75%. (ours is under 50%). That means students, via fees, or the state, via taxes, are paying upwards of 75 cents of every $1 spent on MAC athletics.
Now, look at some of the MACers. For the most extreme case, the one used by HBO, but they are all similar, look at EMU. 72% subsidy, that is $23 million a year. Majority female student body. And, and this is important, approaching a majority of "non-traditional aged students". That is to say, people displaced by the auto industry's continued decline, going to college at a later point in their life to retrain.
Add to that take a gander at the stands on some random "MACtion" night on ESPN. Nobody is there. Playing on weeknights just doesn't work. Nobody is there on Saturdays either.
Many of the types of students MACers serve today simply have no interest in athletics at all, or, if they do, none in the directional state they are attending over their lifelong Wal-Mart fandom of State U. So, the ESPN $$ run dry, and the economy continues to decline, and more and more taxpayers leave, the MACers have two choices. Convince a state government dealing with things like crime and bad water systems and all of that, that a good use of taxes is football games no one goes to; or convince a student body made up increasingly of people with no interest in the matter, that they should owe several thousand more in student loans for it.
Some schools will soak a combination of the taxpayers and the students to stay I-A. IMHO, Ohio and Miami (not the real one, the one in Ohio) will be among them. Some however, will take a sober look at what is a dead end and move away. The only real question is how many are in each group and what happens if the remainers group is too small and they need a new home or new members for their old one.
First the MAC TV deal expires after the 26 football season. Yes, that seems like a long time, but everything runs out eventually. Of course, this was a massive over-bid in today's terms, left over from an era when "everybody" had cable or dish and "everybody" paid ESPN big $$, even if they did not like sports. Something "cord cutting" has freed people from, and by then who knows what the landscape will be? How many people do you know that would not, given free choice, pay a cent for TV sports? I know plenty.
So, the MACers have, even with their current TV $$, have huge subsidy rates. None under 60%, some upwards of 75%. (ours is under 50%). That means students, via fees, or the state, via taxes, are paying upwards of 75 cents of every $1 spent on MAC athletics.
Now, look at some of the MACers. For the most extreme case, the one used by HBO, but they are all similar, look at EMU. 72% subsidy, that is $23 million a year. Majority female student body. And, and this is important, approaching a majority of "non-traditional aged students". That is to say, people displaced by the auto industry's continued decline, going to college at a later point in their life to retrain.
Add to that take a gander at the stands on some random "MACtion" night on ESPN. Nobody is there. Playing on weeknights just doesn't work. Nobody is there on Saturdays either.
Many of the types of students MACers serve today simply have no interest in athletics at all, or, if they do, none in the directional state they are attending over their lifelong Wal-Mart fandom of State U. So, the ESPN $$ run dry, and the economy continues to decline, and more and more taxpayers leave, the MACers have two choices. Convince a state government dealing with things like crime and bad water systems and all of that, that a good use of taxes is football games no one goes to; or convince a student body made up increasingly of people with no interest in the matter, that they should owe several thousand more in student loans for it.
Some schools will soak a combination of the taxpayers and the students to stay I-A. IMHO, Ohio and Miami (not the real one, the one in Ohio) will be among them. Some however, will take a sober look at what is a dead end and move away. The only real question is how many are in each group and what happens if the remainers group is too small and they need a new home or new members for their old one.
MAC schools are comfortable with themselves. It makes all the difference. Their mission is education...sports doesn’t define their self worth. Good for them. They get it.
Wait a minute: You've thrown tantrums for two years telling people to "STFU" and mocking them for a belief that the AAC is a superior conference than C-USA. Now, you've just admitted that the worst performing team in the AAC (UConn) has "dozens of advantages" over Marshall?
How can that be? If the worst performing team in the AAC has "dozens of advantages" over one of the best performing teams in C-USA, how can the AAC not be a superior conference?
Conference USA was once again ranked as the worst FBS conference last season. "Quality" is a term that you appear to be ignorant about.
And for those who were unable to attend the games in person, they had better hoped that the network based out of Mosul which had broadcasting rights for C-USA games decided to fire up the old Facebook feed to watch the "quality games."
No. "Collapse" has two "Ls," which is about three fewer than you've taken in this thread thus far.
So first you claim that Marshall fits in C-USA . . .
. . . then you infer that it isn't a logical geographic fit.
Let's play this game again. First, you claim that C-USA is every bit as good as the AAC. Then, . . .
. . . you claim that adding teams from the Sun Belt, AAC, and MAC would make it an "even better set of teams." Doh!
"Gee wiz," Wally Cleaver, how many names I have will surely be counted by you, my personal shadow, as you chase me from board to board supporting anyone who posts a response against me.
I think this will be a question at almost every G5 school by the end of the 2020's, including Marshall. I sit in 113, adjacent to the student section, and the decline in student attendance over the last 15 years has been stunning.
It has nothing to do with winning or losing either, really, its just that young people aren't going to live sports events like past generations did. Or concerts. Or anything, for that matter.
Same could be said for the Ivy League, who is not D1 anymmore.
The MAC will not motion to increase its revenue nor complain abiut what crumbs ESPN has given it, or shifted their games to weeknights where the gates take a hit and that higher TV deal suddenly looks not so lucrative.
As we all know, exposure is what counts. The MAC seems to appreciate this with their conference constantly in discussion for the Access Bowl. I mean, such programs like Western Michigan who played in a BCS Bowl a while ago, is thriving, right?
"Row the boat" was their motto...and last I saw, their stadium was submerged underwater.
The MAC is as loyal as Boxer was to Napoleon but is likely to end up like Boxer as well.
I see the NCAA reviewing its criteria for D1 status with much of it on stadium attendances. I can't see many of the MAC schools fulfilling this and other elements of said criteria, and those who do, will either stay in D1 or relegated to FCS to continue to be loyal.
The MAC's lack of movement and forward thinking, or just independent thought in general, is the exact reason MU left and yet some actually believe MU would benefit by going back?
Why continue to lie? I already proved your subsidy claims as false years ago. Bowling Green and Toledo are both under 60%.
"In the MAC, Toledo and Bowling Green are the only two schools that are subsidized at less than 60 percent."
You just claimed that "none" were under 60% but facts show otherwise.
Again, that's false. This isn't 2015. At that time, there were three schools over 75%. Two of them were barely (talking tenths of a percentage) over 75%, while the other (Eastern Michigan) was at about 80%.
The two that were barely above 75% have been under it for years. In fact, one of them (Buffalo) chopped sports to put them well under 75%. Eastern Michigan, far and away the biggest subsidized athletic department in the conference, did the same (I believe they chopped four sports). They are down to 71%.
As of 2017-2018, there were no MAC schools at 75%. There was only one even at/around 72%. Again, you continue to try and use exact statistics to prove a point, and while doing so, you continue to provide false information.
Inagree 100%
I may also add, the G5 has a much tighter rope to walk so to speak.
I remember seeing Boise who had lost some games prior to hosting a ranked Fresno State team and Boise was ranked as well, conference championship game, the place was maybe 60% full.
P5 schools can withstand some losses and still draw big crowds.
Much of it is because the Alabama's and the Clemson's of college football have shifted their AD's into business oriented money making models.
While the changes are heavy financial ones, the few fanbases who've bought into this, are doing well and their AD's are thriving.
They've accepted the school is no longer a feel good story driven to celebrate the sport but a "how much more money can we make so we can stay ahead of everyone else?" approach presently.
The many who do not adjust (MU as well) constantly resist and complain about goal posts not being painted enough, toilets, bleachers, etc...then get upset and confused when changes are made to accomodate the ever changing financial aspect of NCAA sports.
They refuse to accept the changes of their program and cling to the hope that "1999 will come back" or MU will actually care about not changing a re-seating policy. This, of course, when an uproar in a increase in ticket prices comes in order to keep up with demands of the college football landscape.
"Gee wiz," Wally Cleaver, how many names I have will surely be counted by you, my personal shadow, as you chase me from board to board supporting anyone who posts a response against me.[/QUOTE]
boy you have got it bad. The only reason I even know you have numerous names is your dumbass is too stupid to logout and log bag in. I go to basically three herd nation boards and two herd fans boards. Based on my recollection, you happen to show up in two of the herd nation boards so I probably like many posts where others are making fun of you. Let me slow it down for you, all five boards I go to are Herd boards....see the common theme? I am interested in the Herd and while Pullman isn't so much Herd, it is funny reading indoctrinated libs as they post their foolishness. I do see you on two of the boards and you are generally one of the bigger assholes on the two boards where I see you, so yes I do like and laugh at many of those posts if I'm not other wise insulting you directly for being pathetic.
If your theory was correct I guess I'd show up at all these other rivals message boards that your pathetic too much time on your hands ass creates different names for. (diagram this sentence)
Now, run along and go write a novel somewhere that few read past the first paragraph or go create some new names for other boards, maybe try a school that fired you or won't hire you?? or maybe just keep it simple and cyber stalk Fever.
My favorite two boards are the two pay boards - - one on herdfans and one on the nation, it cuts down on the rif raf, I'm certain I haven't seen you there.
boy you have got it bad. The only reason I even know you have numerous names is your dumbass is too stupid to logout and log bag in. I go to basically three herd nation boards and two herd fans boards. Based on my recollection, you happen to show up in two of the herd nation boards so I probably like many posts where others are making fun of you. Let me slow it down for you, all five boards I go to are Herd boards....see the common theme? I am interested in the Herd and while Pullman isn't so much Herd, it is funny reading indoctrinated libs as they post their foolishness. I do see you on two of the boards and you are generally one of the bigger assholes on the two boards where I see you, so yes I do like and laugh at many of those posts if I'm not other wise insulting you directly for being pathetic.
If your theory was correct I guess I'd show up at all these other rivals message boards that your pathetic too much time on your hands ass creates different names for. (diagram this sentence)
Now, run along and go write a novel somewhere that few read past the first paragraph or go create some new names for other boards, maybe try a school that fired you or won't hire you?? or maybe just keep it simple and cyber stalk Fever.
My favorite two boards are the two pay boards - - one on herdfans and one on the nation, it cuts down on the rif raf, I'm certain I haven't seen you there.
We rag on the MAC, but honestly tell me the reasons a school would want to be in CUSA? Do we have a compelling argument? Not sure if we do.
MAC schools have different priorities. It’s not lacking forwarding thinking in sports. They obviously don’t see the value in blindly chasing athletic white whales. They are at peace with their place in the pecking order.
I've got it bad, yet you're the one who runs around liking any post towards me in threads you aren't even a part of and when the posts are frequently factually incorrect or embarrassingly bad (like this latest attempt of yours).
I've got it bad yet you make it a point to know which boards I do and don't post on.
No, moron. I purposely sign on under those names to respond to Samantha since he blocks my names each time I post and expose him for posting bogus information. That way he is able to read my post, stupid.
Go back to being my shadow.
I see that you once again hide from backing up your false claims that I continue to call you out on. Why do you continue to lie on here?
The only benefit from the MAC is travel costs and consistent membership for older rivalries . CUSA I see as upgrade from MAC even before the great realignments. Betting on collapsing conferences is a bad move for Marshall.
Hamrick going to do the best for our school but it’s very telling how everyone wants out of CUSA not sure a new Director would be the fix ? the thought of adding the likes of Liberty or some other double directional school makes no sense.
AAC gives us better tie ins and more revenue for all the urinals we want to purchase. I would much rather play Navy, Temple and get OOC games with WKU,Ohio and ODU. Hopefully some our old friends from CUSA 1.0 will feel for us extend the branch , even if it’s in 5 years, we need to be laying down groundwork. Maybe have governor Justice call some favors ($) as an ole alum.
Hamrick going to do the best for our school but it’s very telling how everyone wants out of CUSA not sure a new Director would be the fix ? the thought of adding the likes of Liberty or some other double directional school makes no sense.
AAC gives us better tie ins and more revenue for all the urinals we want to purchase. I would much rather play Navy, Temple and get OOC games with WKU,Ohio and ODU. Hopefully some our old friends from CUSA 1.0 will feel for us extend the branch , even if it’s in 5 years, we need to be laying down groundwork. Maybe have governor Justice call some favors ($) as an ole alum.
Of course we would ALL rather be in the AAC. I'm sure Dr. Gilbert and Mike would too.
It comes down to being asked, they didn't want us the first time and I don't see that we bring much more now, and having the millions needed to exit CUSA and enter AAC
It's possible they could peacefully find themselves in FCS.
That would be a shame. The MAC has finished ahead of C-USA in the ratings each of the last four years.
and they probably wouldn't care.
Most fans of MAC schools are Ohio State and Michigan fans first.
I am sure the same could be said for fans of USM, FAU, FIU, Charlotte ODU, etc.
Ole Miss, MSU, Miami, FL, FSU, NC, NCST, WF, UVA, Va Tech, etc. Our CUSA schools aren't exactly setting the world on fire in the markets they serve.
Hell, according to some on here, ODU should be able to fill up a 100K seat stadium based on their glorious location, budget, and potential. LOL!
Nope. And neither does any MACer, Sun Belter, and most importantly, any AACer. The fact that the school is not going to get much in the way of no real relation to the school (alumni, parent, employee, etc) "Wal-Mart fandom". It is a FACT of what the "group of five", excepting a few schools in states too unpopulated to make the P5 in the Mountain West. It is what it is.
And the same crowd that hates on CUSA was doing the same about the previous version of CUSA, and the MAC before that, and would should we be invited (we will never be) to join the AAC.
The main difference between CUSA and the AAC is in the AAC, a school named for a state, over three times our size, in the richest part of the country, with better facilities, and teams that have won national championships, managed to lose their a** in.
If CUSA is not for you, then MU sports is not for you. I hope those that cannot accept that find something else.
I agree they don’t. But I’ve never understood the negative statement that they are Ohio State or Michigan fans. Why would that be a problem? I would guess that most G5 schools other than those in the AAC are also fans of some other P5 schools.
What I am saying is that they are OSU and Michigan fans FIRST!. Yes, there are some Herd fans that like wvu or OSU or UK, but most are Marshall fans first.
I used to work with several graduates of Ohio based MAC schools. All of them were Buckeye fans and none of them cared how the school they graduated from was doing. They all rooted against their college when OSU played them. Marshall has two school fans too but I think you would find if we played their second favorite team they would root for Marshall.
All of this bashing on a conference that has finished ahead of C-USA each of the last four years and which Doc is an underwhelming 10-6 against. Pro-rated, that would be 5-3 in the conference games, which would have been "good" enough to finish 4th in the MAC East last season.
If what all of you are saying about the MAC is true, those teams are doing far more with far less than C-USA teams are doing.
If what all of you are saying about the MAC is true, those teams are doing far more with far less than C-USA teams are doing.
I agree with you Rifle I think CUSA completely sucks and I wish we would do everything we can to get into the AAC. I was just pointing out that the for the majority of their fan base, the MAC school they attended is not their favorite team.
But when it comes to CUSA vs the MAC I think the MAC is a better conference. I think they both suck but I think the MAC sucks less.
But when it comes to CUSA vs the MAC I think the MAC is a better conference. I think they both suck but I think the MAC sucks less.
The MAC alumni must care a little bit about their schools. Most of the endowments are not bad. Just because they are not blindly devoted to sports at their school doesn’t make them inferior fans. The MAC provides a service for the schools it represents athletically. They seem to be happy....even though that doesn’t rate high on some folks fandom scale. Overall athletically and academically it’s a better conference than CUSA.
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Overall, the MAC better academically than CUSA. Really? Based on what? Don't think any of the state schools that make up the MAC stack up against Rice, a private institution with a solid, well known academic reputation. Both Miami and Ohio U. have good academic reps, but so to do some CUSA schools. Both UAB and UNCC have established and well regarded medical schools, for example.
Athletically, really need to look at ALL sports and how league schools fare overall. I would guess the MAC schools probably have better wrestling programs overall than CUSA schools, since I doubt that many CUSA schools have wrestling programs any more. Baseball, I imagine with Rice, Southern Miss, perhaps, CUSA may have an edge. Women's sports, overall, who knows? UTEP has had very strong track programs, I believe, for many years. To say that one conference is better "athletically" than another would take some objective evaluations of all the sports programs in each league.
Athletically, really need to look at ALL sports and how league schools fare overall. I would guess the MAC schools probably have better wrestling programs overall than CUSA schools, since I doubt that many CUSA schools have wrestling programs any more. Baseball, I imagine with Rice, Southern Miss, perhaps, CUSA may have an edge. Women's sports, overall, who knows? UTEP has had very strong track programs, I believe, for many years. To say that one conference is better "athletically" than another would take some objective evaluations of all the sports programs in each league.
the two are almost identical academically. C-USA has a slight edge according to this article
https://herosports.com/collegefootball/ranking-fbs-conference-academic-ranking
Your article states that Marshall's academic ranking was not available. The reason? The Forbes rankings only go to the top 650 schools. Marshall was the only C-USA or MAC school not considered one of the top 650 in that year's rankings (2015).
In other words, Marshall, at the very best, could only be 651 (and probably significantly worse than that). Knowing that, the MAC would be ranked higher academically than C-USA when including Marshall's ranking.
On the other hand, the MAC received a bump from having UMass in the rankings. This article was from 2015, and since then, UMass has left the MAC. So that would hurt the MAC's average.
In other words, your article is worthless when looking at this debate.
Now, looking at that same ranking system (Forbes) from 2018 gives a more updated view regarding the teams that are still in each conference and more recent rankings.
After doing so, Marshall is once again left out of the top 650 schools. However, they have some company, as Eastern Michigan also dropped out of the top 650.
C-USA's average is 493. The MAC's average is 491.
Time for a new conference.
UConn (football only)
Marshall
Georgia Southern
App State
Western Kentucky
Southern Miss
MTSU
Liberty
James Madison
UAB
FAU
FIU
UConn (football only)
Marshall
Georgia Southern
App State
Western Kentucky
Southern Miss
MTSU
Liberty
James Madison
UAB
FAU
FIU
Replace Liberty with Louisiana Tech. That conference would be better than the current C-USA.
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