8+ wins

[The Real SamC]

(Stolen from Chuck McGill)

List of teams with 8+ wins in 5 of the last 6 years:

Alabama, Boise State, Clemson, Georgia, Houston, Iowa, Louisiana State, Louisville, Memphis, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Southern California, Stanford, Texas A&M, Washington, Wisconsin.

And Marshall.

 

[i am herdman]

How many conference titles we have?

What is the schedule rank of most of those schools?

What happened to Richt at Georgia?

Coach at Louisville, Petrino?

Texas A&M Coach last year?

The Mantra at Marshall. Hide behind over inflated win totals yet finish 2nd or 3rd in the division.

Marshall's record the last 3 seasons is a whopping 19 and 17.

 

[GreenDuke]

(Stolen from Chuck McGill)

List of teams with 8+ wins in 5 of the last 6 years:

Alabama, Boise State, Clemson, Georgia, Houston, Iowa, Louisiana State, Louisville, Memphis, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Southern California, Stanford, Texas A&M, Washington, Wisconsin.

And Marshall.

This proves the old axiom that you can twist statistics into any pretzel logic you desire.

 

[marshallisqbu]

At Marshall, we play for second in our division and for 8 wins.

 

[Marshall Jeff]

I thought we only had three wins two years ago

 

[W-S HerdFan]

At Marshall, we play for second in our division and for 8 wins.

MarshQBU - honestly, what is MH supposed to do?
Doc, for all his shortcomings, has produced winning seasons most years (2 losing ones?), has operated (by modern day “standards”) a clean program, is 5-0 in bowl games. MU’s academic rep hasn’t taken a hit due to an athletics program scandal, hired a new OC who is taking time to get the players used to his O philosophy. Upon what basis do you change horses?

 

[pdbailey]

I thought we only had three wins two years ago

True, but in the other 5 seasons from 2013-2018 we are 49-16 when you take out the 3-9 anomaly.

 

[marshallisqbu]

MarshQBU - honestly, what is MH supposed to do?
Doc, for all his shortcomings, has produced winning seasons most years (2 losing ones?), has operated (by modern day “standards”) a clean program, is 5-0 in bowl games. MU’s academic rep hasn’t taken a hit due to an athletics program scandal, hired a new OC who is taking time to get the players used to his O philosophy. Upon what basis do you change horses?

I wouldn’t change horses but I sure would make sure the horse knows he’s supposed to actually win a race once in awhile and not come in second or worse in the division.


If we didn’t make the title game next year, I would fire him.

 

[i am herdman]

True, but in the other 5 seasons from 2013-2018 we are 49-16 when you take out the 3-9 anomaly.

The last three years we are 19 and 17

If you take a bad anomaly then you need to take out the highest good anomaly.

 

[i am herdman]

MarshQBU - honestly, what is MH supposed to do?
Doc, for all his shortcomings, has produced winning seasons most years (2 losing ones?), has operated (by modern day “standards”) a clean program, is 5-0 in bowl games. MU’s academic rep hasn’t taken a hit due to an athletics program scandal, hired a new OC who is taking time to get the players used to his O philosophy. Upon what basis do you change horses?

Hamrick is partly to blame. He put us on the hook for Doc for over 2 million dollars.

He is part of the problem. There is no real standard for winning. The program is stagnant. All so they can have their retirement gig.

 

[i am herdman]

I wouldn’t change horses but I sure would make sure the horse knows he’s supposed to actually win a race once in awhile and not come in second or worse in the division.


If we didn’t make the title game next year, I would fire him.

I agree. I probably already would have. But, the school is in so far much debt to him they can't . If we want mediocre just hire some guy for half the money and be done with it.

 

[Bankerreturns]

Next year in the east you have Middle without Stockstill, WKU and Charlotte with new coaches, and FAU and FIU, the latter of which should be pretty good as they return a lot, but we play them here, and ODU at home.

No way we shouldn't go 5-1 in the east.

In cross over games we go to Rice, bad in Texas, but Rice is just not good and didn't show any signs of improvement this year, and have La Tech at home. They were really up and down this year and got beat by the good teams they played (and by WKU at home).

We should go 2-0 in crossover, 1-1 at the worst.

So does 7-1 or 6-2 get it done? Who knows.

 

[pdbailey]

The last three years we are 19 and 17

If you take a bad anomaly then you need to take out the highest good anomaly.

Umm, 36-15 in the years not counting 2014 and 2016 for the period of 2013-2018.

 

[i am herdman]

Umm, 36-15 in the years not counting 2014 and 2016 for the period of 2013-2018.

You still haven't looked at the total body of work which is basically Mediocre.

Plus, coaching is a what have you done for me lately. Doc had a good run in the middle of his tenure. The total body of work is what it is. The last three years his record is barely above .500. He is 69-45 as a coach. He has one conference championship.

We were just talking about Mack Brown. Ask him. He slid off after his big run. He is a Hall of Famer and stopped winning enough at Texas.

When you look at Doc's total body of work is a mediocre coach. He has a .605 winning percentage. One conference title. He also tends to lose games at home.

We can run the numbers however we want. Marshall has to decide what it wants. Mediocrity or winning.

Seriously, if I am the AD and your are defending Doc(which you do all the time) tell me why I would keep him at 800K a year? Other than being in hock to him for $2 million. Tell me why he should stay and we shouldn't try something new?

For 800K which we could probably get to $1 million with some fresh air into the program, you don't think I can go get a .605 coach? We basically have the Greg White of football. Really probably worse. CUSA football is not as tough of situation as when Greg White moved to the MAC in basketball.

 

[johns_1124]

Next year in the east you have Middle without Stockstill, WKU and Charlotte with new coaches, and FAU and FIU, the latter of which should be pretty good as they return a lot, but we play them here, and ODU at home.

No way we shouldn't go 5-1 in the east.

In cross over games we go to Rice, bad in Texas, but Rice is just not good and didn't show any signs of improvement this year, and have La Tech at home. They were really up and down this year and got beat by the good teams they played (and by WKU at home).

Fairly sad when we have to look for other teams to be down in order to compete for a Conference Championship in one of the worst Conf in FBS.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

You still haven't looked at the total body of work which is basically Mediocre.

Plus, coaching is a what have you done for me lately. Doc had a good run in the middle of his tenure. The total body of work is what it is. The last three years his record is barely above .500. He is 69-45 as a coach. He has one conference championship.

We were just talking about Mack Brown. Ask him. He slid off after his big run. He is a Hall of Famer and stopped winning enough at Texas.

When you look at Doc's total body of work is a mediocre coach. He has a .605 winning percentage. One conference title. He also tends to lose games at home.

We can run the numbers however we want. Marshall has to decide what it wants. Mediocrity or winning.

Seriously, if I am the AD and your are defending Doc(which you do all the time) tell me why I would keep him at 800K a year? Other than being in hock to him for $2 million. Tell me why he should stay and we shouldn't try something new?

For 800K which we could probably get to $1 million with some fresh air into the program, you don't think I can go get a .605 coach? We basically have the Greg White of football. Really probably worse. CUSA football is not as tough of situation as when Greg White moved to the MAC in basketball.

Fair questions and points.

Let's say we lose to Va Tech and win our bowl game. That puts Doc at 70-46 all time. Now, I understand and agree that one conference championship is not enough but you'd be firing a coach who basically goes 8-5 every year; is 6-0 in bowls; and who is returning a team that should be the pre-season pick to win the conference. Plus, we'd have to eat a ton of cash.

I'm not enamored with the way Doc coaches and I find our style of play to be boring but when you look at things as a whole I believe Doc deserves a 10th year. If he can't win a championship with 14+ returning starters (plus three specialists) and a QB, DC and OC who all have a season under their belts then I think we should hit the reset button for 2020.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Next year in the east you have Middle without Stockstill, WKU and Charlotte with new coaches, and FAU and FIU, the latter of which should be pretty good as they return a lot, but we play them here, and ODU at home.

No way we shouldn't go 5-1 in the east.

In cross over games we go to Rice, bad in Texas, but Rice is just not good and didn't show any signs of improvement this year, and have La Tech at home. They were really up and down this year and got beat by the good teams they played (and by WKU at home).

We should go 2-0 in crossover, 1-1 at the worst.

So does 7-1 or 6-2 get it done? Who knows.

Agree. FIU may be the favorite in 2019. Don't think we'll beat Cincy or Boise in OOC and the Bobcats seem to have our number. I see 8-4, maybe 9-3 IF we stay healthy and Green improves a good bit.

 

[Marine03]

Agree. FIU may be the favorite in 2019. Don't think we'll beat Cincy or Boise in OOC and the Bobcats seem to have our number. I see 8-4, maybe 9-3 IF we stay healthy and Green improves a good bit.

We will see what kind of a coach Doc is with next seasons OOC slate. I’m not going to be shocked if we start off 1-3 with 2 home losses. If that happens this fan base is done completely.

 

[Herd-nificent]

YES I WANT TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, but everyone can't win every year. So, aim at the moon but if you come close say "that was a pretty good year" and my personal life is not ruined.

 

[pdbailey]

Fair questions and points.

Let's say we lose to Va Tech and win our bowl game. That puts Doc at 70-46 all time. Now, I understand and agree that one conference championship is not enough but you'd be firing a coach who basically goes 8-5 every year; is 6-0 in bowls; and who is returning a team that should be the pre-season pick to win the conference. Plus, we'd have to eat a ton of cash.

I'm not enamored with the way Doc coaches and I find our style of play to be boring but when you look at things as a whole I believe Doc deserves a 10th year. If he can't win a championship with 14+ returning starters (plus three specialists) and a QB, DC and OC who all have a season under their belts then I think we should hit the reset button for 2020.

These are my thoughts on Doc as well. He has done too well to get fired and has only had one bad season, and 2019 sets up to potentially be a very good season with what we have coming back and coming in to the team.

 

[Marine03]

These are my thoughts on Doc as well. He has done too well to get fired and has only had one bad season, and 2019 sets up to potentially be a very good season with what we have coming back and coming in to the team.

Oh hell, the dreaded “we have a lot coming back so next year should be a good one” post

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Oh hell, the dreaded “we have a lot coming back so next year should be a good one” post

It is overused (I'm guilty of it) but I think in the context of whether Doc deserves another year it has a place. If the 2018 team was graduating a ton of starters I'd lean more towards starting over from the top down in 2019.

 

[Marine03]

It is overused (I'm guilty of it) but I think in the context of whether Doc deserves another year it has a place. If the 2018 team was graduating a ton of starters I'd lean more towards starting over from the top down in 2019.

As I said earlier, if 2019 starts out 1-3 I think his tenure at seasons end is done or it should be.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

As I said earlier, if 2019 starts out 1-3 I think his tenure at seasons end is done or it should be.

Agree. We have to beat Ohio. I don't think anyone expects us to win in Boise and UC returns a ton and will be very tough.

 

[Sean Hammond]

We still haven't seen how much attrition we'll have at the end of the year, so I'm not ready to talk about what we'll have coming back next season.

I was pissed off and done with Doc after the MTSU game. The So Miss game didn't help matters, but I thought we'd lose that game anyway. However, we've limped our way to a decent season with a lot of turnover in important positions (OC & QB) from last season. Doc doesn't deserve to get run out, unless we look very unprepared for VT & the bowl game.

But I don't want to hear any excuses next year. If there is attrition, it's on Doc. If we lose our DC and Doc doesn't make a good hire, that's on Doc. If Green is still inconsistent, that's on Doc. If the offense is still lacking and out of sync, that's on Doc. If we have a bunch of injuries, it's a bad season for Doc to run into a bunch of bad luck. Sorry, but my patience is running thin. He needs to be put on notice. I don't even need 10 wins/CUSA title. Win the east. That should be a must after 4 years straight of not winning it.

 

[Marine03]

Agree. We have to beat Ohio. I don't think anyone expects us to win in Boise and UC returns a ton and will be very tough.

At Boise I’ll give a pass but at home vs Ohio and even Cincy I do expect to win. If we start 2-2 and go onto compete for a conference title I’m ok with that. The east is going to be down and our western slate will suck

 

[pdbailey]

It is overused (I'm guilty of it) but I think in the context of whether Doc deserves another year it has a place. If the 2018 team was graduating a ton of starters I'd lean more towards starting over from the top down in 2019.

I agree.

 

[pdbailey]

We still haven't seen how much attrition we'll have at the end of the year, so I'm not ready to talk about what we'll have coming back next season.

I was pissed off and done with Doc after the MTSU game. The So Miss game didn't help matters, but I thought we'd lose that game anyway. However, we've limped our way to a decent season with a lot of turnover in important positions (OC & QB) from last season. Doc doesn't deserve to get run out, unless we look very unprepared for VT & the bowl game.

But I don't want to hear any excuses next year. If there is attrition, it's on Doc. If we lose our DC and Doc doesn't make a good hire, that's on Doc. If Green is still inconsistent, that's on Doc. If the offense is still lacking and out of sync, that's on Doc. If we have a bunch of injuries, it's a bad season for Doc to run into a bunch of bad luck. Sorry, but my patience is running thin. He needs to be put on notice. I don't even need 10 wins/CUSA title. Win the east. That should be a must after 4 years straight of not winning it.

The attrition rate among the 2016-2018 classes is very good so I wouldn't expect much attrition with the current team. If we don't win at least 9 regular season games next season then Doc should be on the hot seat and should retire. Of course, major injuries could change that perception as well.

 

[pdbailey]

At Boise I’ll give a pass but at home vs Ohio and even Cincy I do expect to win. If we start 2-2 and go onto compete for a conference title I’m ok with that. The east is going to be down and our western slate will suck

I want at least 2-2 out and 7-1 in the conference for a 9-3 record. CUSA East won't be too easy as FIU will be good, and FAU returns 10 starters on offense and at least half of their starters on defense, so FAU could be a good team as well.

 

[Marine03]

The attrition rate among the 2016-2018 classes is very good so I wouldn't expect much attrition with the current team. If we don't win at least 9 regular season games next season then Doc should be on the hot seat and should retire. Of course, major injuries could change that perception as well.

Not just 9, he needs to win the division and get to the title game at a minimum.

 

[pdbailey]

Not just 9, he needs to win the division and get to the title game at a minimum.

If we win 9 regular season games then we will likely win the division with a 7-1 record. We should be the favorite but FIU and FAU should provide a good challenge as both should be good teams.

 

[mlblack16.]

Next year in the east you have Middle without Stockstill, WKU and Charlotte with new coaches, and FAU and FIU, the latter of which should be pretty good as they return a lot, but we play them here, and ODU at home.

No way we shouldn't go 5-1 in the east.

In cross over games we go to Rice, bad in Texas, but Rice is just not good and didn't show any signs of improvement this year, and have La Tech at home. They were really up and down this year and got beat by the good teams they played (and by WKU at home).

We should go 2-0 in crossover, 1-1 at the worst.

So does 7-1 or 6-2 get it done? Who knows.

It's sad that has been the only way Doc can win against such weak teams in CUSA. They have to be deaf, dumb, and on their last breath before Doc can out coach them.

Not just 9, he needs to win the division and get to the title game at a minimum.

Unless Green can step up and become our next Cato, this won't happen. I have zero faith in Doc's ability using even a remotely good QB. Cato made 2014 happen, not Doc.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

To those who say Doc needs to win CUSA in 2019...
IF he does win it, are you going to actually give him credit? Or are you going to say, "Well, we didn't play anybody" ??
Seems to me that in 2014 when MU did win, all anyone could do was talk about how bad CUSA was.

 

[THUNDERGround]

To those who say Doc needs to win CUSA in 2019...
IF he does win it, are you going to actually give him credit? Or are you going to say, "Well, we didn't play anybody" ??
Seems to me that in 2014 when MU did win, all anyone could do was talk about how bad CUSA was.

It was more about how weak our non-conference schedule was, IMHO

 

[mlblack16.]

To those who say Doc needs to win CUSA in 2019...
IF he does win it, are you going to actually give him credit? Or are you going to say, "Well, we didn't play anybody" ??
Seems to me that in 2014 when MU did win, all anyone could do was talk about how bad CUSA was.

It was weak, but we did what we were supposed to do and win the conference championship.

Win. That's the only way Doc can silence his critics. 2014 was a great season and it felt like Marshall football was finally back.

 

[i am herdman]

Fair questions and points.

Let's say we lose to Va Tech and win our bowl game. That puts Doc at 70-46 all time. Now, I understand and agree that one conference championship is not enough but you'd be firing a coach who basically goes 8-5 every year; is 6-0 in bowls; and who is returning a team that should be the pre-season pick to win the conference. Plus, we'd have to eat a ton of cash.

I'm not enamored with the way Doc coaches and I find our style of play to be boring but when you look at things as a whole I believe Doc deserves a 10th year. If he can't win a championship with 14+ returning starters (plus three specialists) and a QB, DC and OC who all have a season under their belts then I think we should hit the reset button for 2020.

The only reason I would not let him go would be because of the ton of cash(which I believe Mike Hamrick made a bad deal).

I think the goal for Marshall should be to win conference championships and try to get to an Access Bowl. 8-5 does not enamor me.

 

[Tim Hensley]

Getting back to the top of this post, Doc had three straight 10-win seasons. At times, I've been critical of him too; I met one couple that calls him "Captain Cautious." But anybody who thinks a winning coach at this level is about to get canned has been catnipping in Colorado!

 

[5150]

Getting back to the top of this post, Doc had three straight 10-win seasons. At times, I've been critical of him too; I met one couple that calls him "Captain Cautious." But anybody who thinks a winning coach at this level is about to get canned has been catnipping in Colorado!

I still find it funny that everyone thought Legg was the one playing it conservative on offense...lol

 

[ohio herd]

No doubt we have to beat Ohio at home next year. I think they will be a solid team so we better learn to stop the slant pass over the middle!

 

[tradebait]

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