All my questions

[greengeezer]

Hasn’t even been 48 hours and I already have my list of questions:

1. Why wasn’t a rooftop secured?
2. Why didn’t Trump have on shoes?
3. How did the shooter get up to the roof?
4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?
5. How much damaged does an AR
cartridge do to an ear?

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Hasn’t even been 48 hours and I already have my list of questions:

1. Why wasn’t a rooftop secured?
2. Why didn’t Trump have on shoes?
3. How did the shooter get up to the roof?
4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?
5. How much damaged does an AR
cartridge do to an ear?

Some of these I've read about. Not an expert at all, but...

1. Rooftop I believe was under the purview of local law enforcement from what I understand. It should have been monitored closely. It wasn't

2. don't know that one

3. There was a ladder there tucked in between buildings, kind of hard to see but that's what was there. When it was put there I don't know. Some google earth images , presumably taken months ago, showed no ladder. So it's not a permanent thing.

4. Don't know that one. I did see reports that most commonly SS does NOT have permission to shoot at will at many of these events believe it or not. I could see how that sniper from 100 yards away could be in disbelief that someone got on that roof. I don't think he believed what he saw, because of #1 it just shouldn't happen.

5. Don't know that but if it's a glancing blow ...

 

[i am herdman]

Hasn’t even been 48 hours and I already have my list of questions:

1. Why wasn’t a rooftop secured?
2. Why didn’t Trump have on shoes?
3. How did the shooter get up to the roof?
4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?
5. How much damaged does an AR
cartridge do to an ear?

1)Failure of planning by the Secret Service
2)Because his big balls drag the ground and he doesn't want to step on them with hard shoes.
3)he climbed
4)Not going to judge, reports are the cop(I think he was a state trooper) had the weapon pointed at him and retreated.
5)Depends on the angle. Head turned, a flesh wound. Straight on, the side of his would be blown off.

 

[greengeezer]

Doc, you are more informative than CNN.

 

[greengeezer]

Herdman, don’t go into the news business.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Doc, you are more informative than CNN.

I missed a lot in real time events but stayed up super late on twitter last couple nights, it's really fascinating to me. Twitter threads from former secret service guys /black water people were really informative.

 

[herdfan06]

Hasn’t even been 48 hours and I already have my list of questions:


4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?

The officer might not have had a hand free to fire his weapon.

 

[Jartard]

Hasn’t even been 48 hours and I already have my list of questions:

1. Why wasn’t a rooftop secured?
2. Why didn’t Trump have on shoes?
3. How did the shooter get up to the roof?
4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?
5. How much damaged does an AR
cartridge do to an ear?

It sounded to me like he lost a shoe when he was getting down and was surrounded by SS. It’s been reported to be an “AR style” weapon, haven’t heard the caliber officially released yet. There’s no way that was a 5.56 round. My guess would be a .22 like others have said.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

The officer might not have had a hand free to fire his weapon.

that's a really good point.

I don't blame him/her for not firing...it's wild though that some "red alert" signal can't be given immediatly when you see a dude with a rifle on the roof.

Though I also wonder whether they all thought it was maybe one of their own.

It all just seems like a failure of prep. Any kid that plays fortnite knows that roof is the best vantage point to take a shot. no way a civilian should be able to be up there ever.

 

[Jartard]

that's a really good point.

I don't blame him/her for not firing...it's wild though that some "red alert" signal can't be given immediatly when you see a dude with a rifle on the roof.

Though I also wonder whether they all thought it was maybe one of their own.

It all just seems like a failure of prep. Any kid that plays fortnite knows that roof is the best vantage point to take a shot. no way a civilian should be able to be up there ever.

Even if the cop was on a ladder, he could have kept 3 points of contact and at least fired up in the air, yelled “gun” or “shooter”.

 

[greengeezer]

it's really fascinating to me.

Me, too. It is living history. I want to soak in as much as possible before the media become bored and move on to the next story.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Even if the cop was on a ladder, he could have kept 3 points of contact and at least fired up in the air, yelled “gun” or “shooter”.

seems reasonable, though I know nothing about protocols in that situation other than what I've posted.

I'm an amateur at all this.

 

[greengeezer]

I am wondering if the local police were even allowed to carry a weapon. Seems like the last thing you would want around a President is a questionably trained officer going off with a hand gun.

 

[i am herdman]

It sounded to me like he lost a shoe when he was getting down and was surrounded by SS. It’s been reported to be an “AR style” weapon, haven’t heard the caliber officially released yet. There’s no way that was a 5.56 round. My guess would be a .22 like others have said.

It may have been 5.56. It killed the fire chief on the spot. Not say a .22 could do it but it seemed to be an instantly fatal shot.

 

[Jartard]

 

[ThunderCat98]

Let's assume for a moment that there was a failure of some sort in the chain that precluded law enforcement from taking a shot, regardless of the reason.

It is clear that between a timeframe of around 45 seconds to 3 minutes, depending on the account, they knew something was going on.

Here's the real question:

Why the fvck are they not swarming him to either cover or get him off the stage? This single failure defies any and all logic and standard operations. It's mind-boggling.

 

[greengeezer]

Considering how many shots were fired, and how packed the crowd was, it is surprising that more innocent people were not killed.

 

[greengeezer]

View embedded media

If all this guy says is true, wouldn’t those engaged in the conspiracy have picked a better trained marksman?

 

[Marshall Jeff]

So the kid might not have even been the shooter... very JFK-esque.

 

[greengeezer]

So the kid might not have even been the shooter... very JFK-esque.

Interesting point.

 

[Jartard]

If all this guy says is true, wouldn’t those engaged in the conspiracy have picked a better trained marksman?

If Trump hadn’t moved his head slightly when he did, that was a kill shot. I’d assume after that first shot his shots weren’t as well aimed and the shooters adrenaline kicked in.

 

[30CAT]

Considering how many shots were fired, and how packed the crowd was, it is surprising that more innocent people were not killed.

Some of those shots heard were being fired at the perp.

 

[ThunderCat98]

If all this guy says is true, wouldn’t those engaged in the conspiracy have picked a better trained marksman?

What if the conspiracy wasn't for a specific shooter to take him out at a given time, place, and location, but rather for the SS to generally be lax in their assessment and response to threats. To include assigning agents to Trump's detail who weren't very good - that is, the "B team," if you will - and just wait for the inevitable to happen?

 

[30CAT]

2. Why didn’t Trump have on shoes?

"The agents hit me so hard that my shoes fell off, and my shoes are tight," he explained to the Post.

 

[30CAT]

4. Why did the cop who engaged the
shooter not use his weapon?

A law enforcement expert joined "Fox News @ Night" on Sunday to detail what happened when an officer at former President Trump's Pennsylvania rally allegedly confronted the gunman on a rooftop before the deadly shooting on Saturday.

Retired Las Vegas Police Lt. Randy Sutton says the officer was alerted to the gunman, now identified as 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks, and was attempting to confront him on the roof, but there was "no ladder" or access point.

The officer decided to reach Crooks by climbing onto the back of another officer, according to Sutton's sources.

"As he was lifting himself up over the roof line, suddenly the suspect pointed his gun at him, the officer ducked down, and when he did, he fell off the back of the other officer," Sutton said.

Sutton explained that this was not a situation where an officer committed a "cowardly act," dismantling an earlier report that the officer possibly retreated when he confronted Crooks.

"This is an officer who made an observation, saw that he was about to be shot, and fell off the back of the other officer," Sutton said.

 

[i am herdman]

Let's assume for a moment that there was a failure of some sort in the chain that precluded law enforcement from taking a shot, regardless of the reason.

It is clear that between a timeframe of around 45 seconds to 3 minutes, depending on the account, they knew something was going on.

Here's the real question:

Why the fvck are they not swarming him to either cover or get him off the stage? This single failure defies any and all logic and standard operations. It's mind-boggling.

A lot of special ops guys are raising lots of questions. Yes they do this kind of thing including protection of high value people, including our president especially overseas.

It is a basic concept that was ignored.

A lot of questions to be answered.

You don't even have to be a security person to see how elementary this was. What happened?

 

[greengeezer]

I haven’t had this much fun since the Warren Commission report can out. So much conjecture.

 

[30CAT]

A lot of special ops guys are raising lots of questions. Yes they do this kind of thing including protection of high value people, including our president especially overseas.

It is a basic concept that was ignored.

A lot of questions to be answered.

You don't even have to be a security person to see how elementary this was. What happened?

Yep. No reason a building rooftop, 140 yards away, with a straight and clear view of where Trump was, did not get secured long before the rally started.

 

[Rock98Dog]

"The agents hit me so hard that my shoes fell off, and my shoes are tight," he explained to the Post.

Didn’t know Terry Tate was a SS officer.

 

[Jartard]

Are drones not used by the SS? That seems like something basic at this point.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

What if the conspiracy wasn't for a specific shooter to take him out at a given time, place, and location, but rather for the SS to generally be lax in their assessment and response to threats. To include assigning agents to Trump's detail who weren't very good - that is, the "B team," if you will - and just wait for the inevitable to happen?

Or they just lost sight of their goal - be really good at protecting people as their mission. Period.

 

[herdfan06]

If Trump hadn’t moved his head slightly when he did, that was a kill shot. I’d assume after that first shot his shots weren’t as well aimed and the shooters adrenaline kicked in.

That is what I am thinking as well because it seems like he had enough time to take a second shot before Trump dropped to the floor.

 

[i am herdman]

Full Geolocation Analysis of the Event. Good info here.

Full Geolocation Analysis of Trump Assassination Attempt

On July 13, gunman Thomas Matthew Crooks opened fire on a Trump rally in Butler, PA, from an elevated vantage point in an attempted assassination of the former

theatlasnews.co

 

[i am herdman]

How this guy was ever allowed on that building with near perfect angle to shoot at Trump at a range of near dead zero for the rifle is beyond comprehension.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Full Geolocation Analysis of the Event. Good info here.

Full Geolocation Analysis of Trump Assassination Attempt

On July 13, gunman Thomas Matthew Crooks opened fire on a Trump rally in Butler, PA, from an elevated vantage point in an attempted assassination of the former

theatlasnews.co

The pitch on that roof is key. Snipers couldn't see him until he was closer to shooting position....why I think the breakdown is that local cops didn't call it in quick enough when they saw it...but why you have local cops covering that area and not better trained people is another question.

*note my "breakdown" is from an idiot with an computer and an interest in this, I may be full of it

 

[i am herdman]

The pitch on that roof is key. Snipers couldn't see him until he was closer to shooting position....why I think the breakdown is that local cops didn't call it in quick enough when they saw it...but why you have local cops covering that area and not better trained people is another question.

*note my "breakdown" is from an idiot with an computer and an interest in this, I may be full of it

Definite breakdown..they should have that perimeter guarded and law enforcement on the roof.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

I still think incompetence explains most of it…but come on, this is insulting to me that so far things the official word

 

[-CarlHungus-]

This is where I’ve landed as well…

 

[herdfan06]

Or they just lost sight of their goal - be really good at protecting people as their mission. Period.

View embedded media

Is that for the organization as a whole or those who work on protective details? The majority of SS Agents are not involved with protective details.

 

[i am herdman]