Anybody want to talk about the Nov 10 agreement between USA and Ukraine?

[i am herdman]

The agreement basically said Ukraine has met the requirements to join NATO and that the USA recognized Ukraine's borders, including Crimea, and that they were fast tracking on their way to NATO. We recongized Russian agression and Ukraine a sovereignty.

But, wait, if we did that did we not have a plan to deal with Russia? Especially if the Russians reacted. If a country is that close to joining NATO then are they not worth protecting?

So, which is it? We buy oil from Russia. But, Russia is attacking a country we said was sovereign and said a part Russia already had taken was part of that.

So which is it? Before we even signed that agreement Russia was massing troops up, making moves. So what were our leaders thinking?

 

[KyMUfan]

As I earlier posted a lot of this goes back to the 1990 reunification negotiations with Russia. Seems like Clinton screwed the pooch later which set the stage for much of what has occurred between the US and Russia over the last 20 years.

However LWNJs like @Raoul Duke MU still want to pretend that hasn't occurred as they try to be apologists for the Democrat party and lay it on Trump...

 

[extragreen]

“NATO is as bad as NAFTA,”

“It’s much too costly for the US.”

In May 2017 Trump failed to commit the US to NATO’s Article 5, which says an attack on one ally is an attack on all

In July of that year Trump told the New York Times that the US would come to the aid of NATO allies only if they “fulfill their obligations us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia​

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia (Published 2019)

The president’s repeatedly stated desire in private to withdraw from the alliance has raised concerns among officials who fear he may revisit the threat.

www.nytimes.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump made clear that he saw NATO as a relic of the Cold War. "You know, we're dealing with NATO from the days of the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. We need to either transition into terror or we need something else."

"I said a long time ago that NATO had problems: Number one, it was obsolete, because it was designed many, many years ago."

"They want (us) to protect against Russia, and yet they pay billions of dollars to Russia, and we're the schmucks paying for the whole thing."

In an interview with Fox News, Trump was asked why the US should jump to the defense of NATO ally Montenegro if it was attacked. The president said he asked himself the same question, a remark that appeared to undermine the alliance's collective defense clause

Ignorant trumptards.

 

[KyMUfan]

“NATO is as bad as NAFTA,”

“It’s much too costly for the US.”

In May 2017 Trump failed to commit the US to NATO’s Article 5, which says an attack on one ally is an attack on all

In July of that year Trump told the New York Times that the US would come to the aid of NATO allies only if they “fulfill their obligations us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia​

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia (Published 2019)

The president’s repeatedly stated desire in private to withdraw from the alliance has raised concerns among officials who fear he may revisit the threat.

www.nytimes.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump made clear that he saw NATO as a relic of the Cold War. "You know, we're dealing with NATO from the days of the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. We need to either transition into terror or we need something else."

"I said a long time ago that NATO had problems: Number one, it was obsolete, because it was designed many, many years ago."

"They want (us) to protect against Russia, and yet they pay billions of dollars to Russia, and we're the schmucks paying for the whole thing."

In an interview with Fox News, Trump was asked why the US should jump to the defense of NATO ally Montenegro if it was attacked. The president said he asked himself the same question, a remark that appeared to undermine the alliance's collective defense clause

Ignorant trumptards.

Biden is POTUS when Russia invaded Ukraine. The but Trump chorus from you and your ilk is both tired and tiresome...

Now we know why Biden was afraid of a joint presser with Putin

Like political debates, diplomatic summits come down to a few key moments that carry into future news cycles.

thehill.com

Things sure have changed haven't they??? Russian military actions while Biden was in the Senate, VPOTUS and POTUS - 16. While Trump was POTUS - 1 (Central African Republic Civil War).

Are you really this dense???

 

[extragreen]

Biden is POTUS when Russia invaded Ukraine. The but Trump chorus from you and your ilk is both tired and tiresome...

View embedded media

Now we know why Biden was afraid of a joint presser with Putin

Like political debates, diplomatic summits come down to a few key moments that carry into future news cycles.

thehill.com

Things sure have changed haven't they??? Russian military actions while Biden was in the Senate, VPOTUS and POTUS - 16. While Trump was POTUS - 1 (Central African Republic Civil War).

Are you really this dense???

No, you're just an idiot. The very alliance that you want to call for help is the same alliance your ignorant and unqualified orange jesus would have taken the U S out of if he'd had his way.

 

[Kate Branson]

I'm surprised all of the media is not sugarcoating anything at all.

They must really not like Biden. They sugarcoated for Obama and likely would have for Kamala or maybe even Butt gegg. Biden is toast though with everything right now. He's looking like Bruce Coslet.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

However LWNJs like @Raoul Duke MU still want to pretend that hasn't occurred as they try to be apologists for the Democrat party and lay it on Trump...

I've been clear: the blame is on Putin, all of it.

. Not all observations equal "Trump bad". This situtaion is 100% on Putin and no one else.

 

[extragreen]

I've been clear: the blame is on Putin, all of it.

And someone started a thread about this...

Whose fault is it that Russia invaded Ukraine??​

According to the idiot Cons....

Biden
Green energy
Climate change
The EU
NATO
Germany
China
Lack of drilling U S oil
et al


The Russian propaganda^^^^ has succeeded.

Let me ask the question again: Whose fault is it that Russia.... invaded.... Ukraine??

I tend to blame Putin and Russia.

 

[KyMUfan]

Yep, your swings and misses are legendary. Like the recurring one that you are a libertarian...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Yep, your swings and misses are legendary.

As usual, when caught in a lie you have nothing.

Like the recurring one that you are a libertarian...

I am at least glad you showed a minimum amount of intellgience by not usuing a capital L, as I am not a member of any party. There is still some hope for you.

 

[KyMUfan]

As usual, when caught in a lie you have nothing.

Nope. It's an observation shared by many. If you disagree with someone then you respond they must be a RWNJ. That said, that must make you a LWNJ.

BTW, have you ever called any here a LWNJ???

Search results say no...

as I am not a member of any party.

No, you're just cheerleader for one then and blame everything on the other, or at a minimum Trump...

Need proof???

And I've provided the "why" several times, so did raoul. You moron.

Name anyone else here that EG would reference by name to support his "positions"...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Nope

Yes, I caught you in a lie. There is no refuting that.

BTW, have you ever called any here a LWNJ???

Yes. Sabo, in particular (before your time). And I've called EG a nutjob, period 😂

For whatever reason, but likely because this board is white as Wonder Bread and most of us are from a rural or semi-rural background, we really don't have true LWNJ's here. There's no threads railing against guns, things like that.

No, you're just cheerleader for one

Want me to post more quotes, this time of me saying both parties suck? How many lies do you want to be caught in today?

Name anyone else here that EG would reference by name to support his "positions"...

Apparently anyone who is not a serial liar, but there are not many of those left here.

 

[KyMUfan]

we really don't have true LWNJ's here.

But evidently there are true RWNJs here???

Want me to post more quotes, this time of me saying both parties suck?

It's easy to say both parties suck. I have plenty times myself. I'd just like to see a couple of examples of you saying one particular party sucks, you know the one you are a cheerleader for...

 

[Kate Branson]

this board is white as Wonder Bread and most of us are from a rural or semi-rural background

LOL, this reminds me of the Meathead on Archie Bunker talking about the black problem or whatever. Remember when they came and robbed Archie? The two robbers were black. They stayed and talked with Archie and them for a while.

Mike (Meathead) said he understood the black problem because he took classes on it in sociology. The two robbers laughed at him.

What was the real story that made your heart bleed for them? It always has. That's OK though. Hell, my heart would have probably bled if I would have had one. I either never did or it got ripped out at a very young age. Tough to feel sorry for people who could beat the hell out of me and leave me for dead in a ditch in the drop of a hat.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

What was the real story that made your heart bleed for them?

My sympathy is with the working man that has seen our jobs hollowed out. White and black, doesn't matter.

 

[MichiganHerd]

If you haven't seen it yet, Henry Kissinger pretty much nailed the current situation in a 2014 op-ed.

Well worth the read.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/flashback-2014-washington-post-column-henry-kissinger-russia-ukraine

 

[KyMUfan]

I've been clear: the blame is on Putin, all of it.

Hmmm, did we do anything to poke the Bear???

 

[extragreen]

^^^^Putin apologist

 

[Chevy1]

I always get a chuckle from the crowd who screams "commies" or "socialists" at democrats at every opportunity, and then openly ponders if we're "poking the bear" by assisting countries to get out from under communist rule and influence.

Is it any surprise these countries ran to NATO at first opportunity? Perhaps NATO membership has kept them from Russian invasion.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

 

[KyMUfan]

I always get a chuckle from crowd who screams "commies" or "socialists" at democrats at every opportunity, and then openly ponders if we're "poking the bear" by assisting countries to get out from under communist rule and influence.

Is it any surprise these countries ran to NATO at first opportunity? Perhaps NATO membership has kept them from Russian invasion.

Biden was the one that said that in the clip. Did you chuckle at him?

 

[KyMUfan]

My sympathy is with the working man that has seen our jobs hollowed out. White and black, doesn't matter.

Shit, the majority of people never thought for the themselves, thus why populism is dangerous.

Soooo, one party (the one that you cheerlead for) has used populism since long before you or l were born by making false promises that they were for the "working man" while selling them out time and time again, lining their pockets in the process and yet they seem to get a pass from you. All the while members of the other party wer either their lapdogs at best or willing accomplices at worst.

Yet one guy has actually put his family, fortune and friendships on the line for these same "working men" (actually costing himself money instead if making himself money in the process) and now populism is bad???

I know you've given scant praise for Trump in the past (far less than 5%...😉) but you also give him your harshest criticism. Dude, that's why I say you are a cheerleader for the Left and a libertarian in name only. I think several here would agree with that.

If you are going to argue just to argue, at least spread it around some...

 

[extragreen]

Yet one guy has actually put his family, fortune and friendships on the line for these same "working men"

In his first year alone, your orange jesus....

Enacted tax cuts that overwhelmingly favor the wealthy

Dismantled two key regulations that protect the pay of low- to middle-income workers: it failed to defend a 2016 rule strengthening overtime protections for these workers, and it took steps to gut regulations that protect servers from having their tips taken by their employers.

Blocked workers from access to the courts by allowing mandatory arbitration clauses in employment contracts

Blocked the Workplace Injury and Illness recordkeeping rule, and the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces rule.

Came within 1 vote of taking affordable health care away from millions of working people

 

[KyMUfan]

Anything you post is only worth a quick scan and response off the top of my head so here goes...

Enacted tax cuts that overwhelmingly favor the wealthy

Tax cuts that stimulated the economy, resulting in historic low unemployment, historic high employment among many demographics and wage growth. Bidenflation has lost much of the benefits of this historic wage growth.

and it took steps to gut regulations that protect servers

Meanwhile the lab created Chinese virus that you run cover for destroyed how many of these servers' job that you are now giving lip service to???

Blocked workers from access to the courts by allowing mandatory arbitration clauses in employment contracts

So Trump wanted to speed up the process by avoiding clogged courts. Meanwhile your DAs are avoiding clogged courts by allowing criminals to walk free.

Came within 1 vote of taking affordable health care away from millions of working people

Sure Karen... think there aren't better and more affordable alternatives out there???

Alternatives To Obamacare

The four top “sharing” organizations now insure more than one million people. To put that in perspective, only about 10 million people are currently enrolled in Obamacare exchanges. There may be more who have an alternative (non-ACA-compliant) plan than those with an unsubsidized Obamacare plan.

www.forbes.com

 

[Chevy1]

Biden was the one that said that in the clip. Did you chuckle at him?

I'm pretty sure it was you who wrote "poke the bear"....Biden didn't say that in your clip, but he did qualify his concern with including the Baltics with "at this time".

Again, I can understand how former Soviet satellite nations, who used to be behind the iron curtain, would endeavor to stay away from that communist doctrine.

 

[KyMUfan]

I'm pretty sure it was you who wrote "poke the bear"....

As a question...

Hmmm, did we do anything to poke the Bear???

Biden didn't say that in your clip

But he certainly implied it. So you can turn my question into a statement but can't see that he implied it??? Wow...

but he did qualify his concern with including the Baltics with "at this time".

What has changed other than Biden's mental acuity???

Complex issues then and now. This aspect of it has been going on since the collapse and reunification.

At the current time anyone that expresses concern about Russia's reaction to NATO expansion as being pro-Putin, even to extent of being referenced as "aid and comfort" to the enemy.

I find this interesting. At the time couldn't the same be said of this?

Enlargement of NATO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"In an open letter to US President Bill Clinton, more than forty foreign policy experts including Bill Bradley, Sam Nunn, Gary Hart, Paul Nitze, and Robert McNamara expressed their concerns about NATO expansion as both expensive and unnecessary given the lack of an external threat from Russia at that time."

 

[extragreen]

Tax cuts that stimulated the economy, resulting in historic low unemployment, historic high employment among many demographics and wage growth. Bidenflation has lost much of the benefits of this historic wage growth.

It accomplished next to nothing other than to line the pockets of the wealthy. The UE rate was 4.1% when the bill passed and had been going down the previous EIGHT YEARS. The GDP growth rate increased .66% in 2018 and then dropped below the 2017 growth rate in 2019.

Meanwhile the lab created Chinese virus that you run cover for destroyed how many of these servers' job that you are now giving lip service to???

You're a bare faced liar. Everyone knows you couldn't refrain from lying for more than a minute or 2.

So Trump wanted to speed up the process by avoiding clogged courts. Meanwhile your DAs are avoiding clogged courts by allowing criminals to walk free.

No, your orange jesus wanted to make employees beholden to arbitration so companies like his could get a get an out of jail free card when it came to grievances from employees and consumers. Idiot.

Sure Karen... think there aren't better and more affordable alternatives out there???

And that's the reason those alternatives have taken over the health insurance business.

 

[KyMUfan]

The UE rate was 4.1% when the bill passed and had been going down the previous EIGHT YEARS.

Look at something meaningful for a change. The unemployment rate is not the best measurement. The full-time employment rate is the better measurement tool. Get it right for a change...

Number of full-time employees U.S. 2023 | Statista

The number of full-time employees returned to pre-pandemic levels in 2022 after a sharp decline in 2020.

www.statista.com

PS - you're always posting about liars, especially about Covid. Are you saying the CCP didn't lie, and aren't liars? Seems that way to me...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Yet one guy has actually put his family, fortune and friendships on the line for these same "working men"

I snorted.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Hmmm, did we do anything to poke the Bear???

View embedded media

The same Russia that floated the idea of itself joining NATO, right?

 

[i am herdman]

What would the USA do if the russians put troops, weapons systems, etc in Canada or Mexico? Answer this quesions under the assumption that Biden is not President because he is a wild card.

Remember, Generals and leaders always say, understand the motivation of your enemies or adversaries. Putin told the world what he was going to do. This current operation alone was planned for at least a year and we had the intelligence right there in front of us.

 

[extragreen]

Look at something meaningful for a change. The unemployment rate is not the best measurement. The full-time employment rate is the better measurement tool. Get it right for a change...

You're an idiot.

PS - you're always posting about liars, especially about Covid. Are you saying the CCP didn't lie, and aren't liars? Seems that way to me...

The origin of covid 19 is UNKNOWN. Liar.

 

[extragreen]

What would the USA do if the russians put troops, weapons systems, etc in Canada or Mexico? Answer this quesions under the assumption that Biden is not President because he is a wild card.

Remember, Generals and leaders always say, understand the motivation of your enemies or adversaries. Putin told the world what he was going to do. This current operation alone was planned for at least a year and we had the intelligence right there in front of us.

You still have no answers, oath breaker. Only whining.

 

[Jartard]

What would the USA do if the russians put troops, weapons systems, etc in Canada or Mexico? Answer this quesions under the assumption that Biden is not President because he is a wild card.

Remember, Generals and leaders always say, understand the motivation of your enemies or adversaries. Putin told the world what he was going to do. This current operation alone was planned for at least a year and we had the intelligence right there in front of us.

Cuba is still paying for it to this day.

 

[KyMUfan]

You're an idiot.

The origin of covid 19 is UNKNOWN. Liar.

So, you originally reference unemployment rate to support your argument about the strength of the economy and I tell you total full-time employment is a much better indicator.

What do you do? You post a chart of FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT to call me an idiot. Brilliant! Do you even have a clue how stupid that makes you look?

 

[extragreen]

So, you originally reference unemployment rate to support your argument about the strength of the economy and I tell you total full-time employment is a much better indicator.

What do you do? You post a chart of FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT to call me an idiot. Brilliant! Do you even have a clue how stupid that makes you look?

I completely understand your futility in attempting to defend a tax cut for the wealthy. You don't want to go by the UE rate, nor GDP, but you attempt to make a point about full time employment and that gets nullified also. Idiot.

 

[KyMUfan]

I snorted.

Cocaine??? Ah, now I understand...

 

[KyMUfan]

but you attempt to make a point about full time employment and that gets nullified also.

Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover

The number of employed Americans fell by 3 million during Trump's time in office.

fortune.com

"During the first three years of Donald Trump’s presidency, the economy did quite well. The unemployment rate hit a 50-year low, income growth doubled, and the economic expansion he inherited grew into the longest in American history.

But that all came to a shrieking halt when COVID-19 hit."

So, inflation, the huge price increases at the pump, etc. are not the current POTUS' fault, just like COVID-19 and the negative effects of it on the global economy are the fault of the former POTUS and not the CCP who covered up the origins of COVID-19 and restricted internal travel while allowing international travel, thus exporting the virus to the rest of the world???

Only in your mind does something like that make sense...

 

[extragreen]

Blah blah blah

Your attempt to defend the tax cut for the wealthy has left the building.

 

[KyMUfan]

Your attempt to defend the tax cut for the wealthy has left the building.

When you resort to attributing a post to me that I didn't make your true character shows through. Why, isn't that a form of lying? Liar...