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This red state is becoming an ‘expat’ community for families fleeing western liberal bastions. It's not just Texas and Folorida

30CAT

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May 29, 2001
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People are turning away from shitholes like California, Oregon and Washington and headed to Red states. Today's Democrat policies suck.

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LINK: SANDPOINT, Idaho — Taylor grinned at his parents as he rolled away on his push-bike, gravel crunching under the wheels.

The three-and-a-half-year-old was headed to play with friends who live a couple houses down at the end of their quiet North Idaho cul-de-sac.

"He just can take off on his bike and it’s so safe," Ashley Manning, his mother, said. "Everybody just watches out for him."

"It’s been the best experience," she added.

It’s a scenario she can’t imagine playing out in their old neighborhood in Portland, Oregon.

Manning, her husband Nick Kostenborder and a then-9-month-old Taylor packed up and moved east in 2021. That same year, families from Seattle and San Diego also arrived on their road near Sandpoint.

"It’s this kind of weird little expat group that we all found ourselves here," Kostenborder said.

Gem State growth

Idaho’s population soared more than 12% from 2018 to 2023, making it one of the fastest growing states in the nation. Most of the growth is due to people moving in — local real estate agent Trent Grandstaff estimates 98% of his clients are from outside of Idaho.

While they come from all over the country, and even the world, the West Coast dominates the in-migration.

"California, Washington and Oregon — those are the three primary states from which people come," Coeur d’Alene Mayor Jim Hammond told Fox News Digital.

In Sandpoint, a small city that saw its population grow nearly 13% from 2020 to 2022, Mayor Jeremy Grimm said many new residents he speaks to are looking for a community and government that’s more "aligned with their political philosophies."

"It's mostly major cities ... or just outside of major cities where they're going, 'I'm not OK with what's going on. I don't want my guns taken away. Get me to Idaho,'" Grandstaff said.

The rapid growth isn’t without drawbacks. Housing prices have soared, new developments are sprouting in open fields and previously wooded areas, and there are more cars on the roads.

"Growing up in a wide-open space like this, people get used to having elbow room," Bonner County Commissioner Luke Omodt said. "And we're struggling with the fact that there's other people that want to share the same beauty that we do."

What’s driving people out of their home states

Kostenborder took Oregon’s natural beauty for granted as a kid brought up on the outskirts of Salem.

"It’s one of the best places on Earth," he said, recalling the times he and his friends would jump from low bridges into the Santiam River, or waterski on Detroit Lake.

He grew up conservative, listening to Rush Limbaugh in his dad’s work truck. As an adult, he drifted toward libertarianism, moved to Portland and played drums in a series of bands. He didn’t mind that his political views were considered fringe in the blue stronghold because he felt like he was "participating in the marketplace of ideas."

"Then when the lockdowns happened, the marketplace got closed," he said. "If you wanted to [transition] kids or whatever, then you can say that all you want. But if you question the lockdowns or the mask mandates, then you’re banished."

With a baby on the way in summer 2020 — coinciding with protests and riots that lasted more than 100 consecutive nights — Kostenborder said his eyes were opened to other problems in the City of Roses.

"If I would have had a kid, I probably would have noticed it a few years earlier," he said. "You’re worried about someone else besides yourself. So you start to notice threats more. Like, it's no longer charming to have the homeless guy asleep in front of the grocery store. Now it's like, all right, this actually might be dangerous."

Portlanders have ranked homelessness and crime as top issues facing the region in numerous surveys. They've also grown increasingly pessimistic about their city's direction, with just 21% saying the city was on the right track in 2023, according to DHM Research, down from more than 70% in the 1990s.

"That's just historically really, really bad," DHM Research Senior Vice President John Horvick said. "Now you walk around town, you go to church, you talk to your friends at the bar and pretty much everybody feels negative about things. It's a whole different world."

Oregon’s strict pandemic restrictions and mask mandates — which would last until spring 2022 — were the final straw for Manning and Kostenborder.

"The number one objective was that [Taylor] have a normal childhood," Kostenborder said. "We want him to go to church. We want him to go to the park and play with friends … we’re not going to have our kid not see any human faces for the first two years of his life. We’re not taking that chance."

So in April 2021, they sold their freshly renovated home in Northeast Portland and moved to Sandpoint.

Bryan Zielinski and his wife considered moving from the Seattle area to Idaho for about six years. He was the general manager of one of the largest independently owned gun stores in western Washington, a place where it’s not easy to be a conservative.

"Everything is political," Zielinski said. "Whether it's the car you drive, where you work. You’re wearing a mask, you're not wearing a mask."

Zielinski said a victim culture was also growing in the Evergreen State.

"So much to the point that you couldn't even have a conversation with anyone without getting the term ‘fascist’ or ‘racist’ or whatever thrown at you by just trying to state your opinion or what you believed as fact," he said.

He had a front row seat as Washington’s restrictions on firearms accelerated. Lawmakers banned the sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds in 2022. The next spring, they outlawed the sale or import of "assault weapons" — primarily semiautomatic rifles — and many of the parts used to build them.

Between COVID restrictions, educational policies and the new gun laws, Washington's political climate reached "a crescendo," Zielinski said.

June will mark one year since his family moved to Idaho, and just over four months since he opened North Idaho Arms in Post Falls.

He’s been back to Washington a couple of times since moving.

"Everything is horns honking, people screaming, homeless people, tents everywhere," he said. "It’s horrible."

Migration trend expected to continue

Local real estate agents like Grandstaff and Seth Horst don't see an end to the migration any time soon, despite rising home prices and interest rates.

"We get calls every day from people that are interested in moving here," Horst said. "They’re willing to do anything, it seems like, to get to a place for their kids where they can raise them safely. And I think that's kind of the trend that may continue for a while."

Horst deeply understands that drive — after about 14 years as a California Highway Patrol officer, his family bought a house in Coeur d'Alene sight-unseen in fall 2020, sold their home in Chico and moved by the end of the year. Now he co-owns Your North Idaho Agent, a real estate team comprised of former first responders, and said April was their busiest month yet.

"My wife was really pushing, like, ‘Hey, we need to get out of here because California does not feel safe anymore,'"he recalled. "We felt like we were losing a lot of our freedoms as far as medical freedom and the choice to where our kids went to school, what happened at school, things like that."

The family briefly considered Bend, Oregon, but when they visited, they immediately noticed the tents and ramshackle RVs.

"The homeless population was looking exactly like California," Horst said.

"I’m not mean-hearted, but I just don’t want to raise my family around that," he said.

A friend suggested the family visit Coeur d’Alene, a city Horst had previously envisioned as "some podunk town." Instead, he discovered a vibrant downtown nestled on the shores of Idaho’s second-largest lake. He remembers walking up to the water’s edge, staring awestruck at the trees and hills.

"I knew right away," he said. "This is where we need to be."
 
Becoming? Idaho has long been a destination for right wingers, Klanners, and Neo Nazis.
Except these just aren't "right wingers" moving out of these states. Many of these folks are considered middle of road "non political", that became fed up with seeing how their communities were being managed.
 
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Except these just aren't "right wingers" moving out of these states. Many of these folks are considered middle of road "non political", that became fed up with seeing how their communities were being managed.

He doesn't want to believe Blue states and cities are bleeding badly, because of Democrat policies.
 
Except these just aren't "right wingers" moving out of these states.
Except you didn't read OP's post.

Every single person profiled is on the right side of the line.

And there's this:

"
Idaho’s population soared more than 12% from 2018 to 2023, making it one of the fastest growing states in the nation. Most of the growth is due to people moving in — local real estate agent Trent Grandstaff estimates 98% of his clients are from outside of Idaho.

While they come from all over the country, and even the world, the West Coast dominates the in-migration.

"California, Washington and Oregon — those are the three primary states from which people come," Coeur d’Alene Mayor Jim Hammond told Fox News Digital.

In Sandpoint, a small city that saw its population grow nearly 13% from 2020 to 2022, Mayor Jeremy Grimm said many new residents he speaks to are looking for a community and government that’s more "aligned with their political philosophies."

"It's mostly major cities ... or just outside of major cities where they're going, 'I'm not OK with what's going on. I don't want my guns taken away. Get me to Idaho,'" Grandstaff said"

I stand by my claim: Idaho is not becoming a right wing destination, it's long been one. And that's fine.
 
Except you didn't read OP's post.

Every single person profiled is on the right side of the line.

And there's this:

"
Idaho’s population soared more than 12% from 2018 to 2023, making it one of the fastest growing states in the nation. Most of the growth is due to people moving in — local real estate agent Trent Grandstaff estimates 98% of his clients are from outside of Idaho.

While they come from all over the country, and even the world, the West Coast dominates the in-migration.

"California, Washington and Oregon — those are the three primary states from which people come," Coeur d’Alene Mayor Jim Hammond told Fox News Digital.

In Sandpoint, a small city that saw its population grow nearly 13% from 2020 to 2022, Mayor Jeremy Grimm said many new residents he speaks to are looking for a community and government that’s more "aligned with their political philosophies."

"It's mostly major cities ... or just outside of major cities where they're going, 'I'm not OK with what's going on. I don't want my guns taken away. Get me to Idaho,'" Grandstaff said"

I stand by my claim: Idaho is not becoming a right wing destination, it's long been one. And that's fine.
You must have missed the first section of the article.

As an adult, he drifted toward libertarianism, moved to Portland and played drums in a series of bands. He didn’t mind that his political views were considered fringe in the blue stronghold because he felt like he was "participating in the marketplace of ideas."

Is a "libertarian" a "right winger" now? Maybe KY calling you a liberal left loony is accurate.
 
I stand by my claim: Idaho is not becoming a right wing destination, it's long been one. And that's fine.
I thought that was Marlinton WV.

Meanwhile Bozeman Montana has been filling up with Cali Ex pats too. Bozeman is called Bozangeles by native Montanans. There’s a Great Meadery there though. I’ll give them that.
 
People are turning away from shitholes like California, Oregon and Washington and headed to Red states. Today's Democrat policies suck.
U.S. News released their annual state rankings yesterday.

Do you realize how dumb it makes you look when defending the state you live in (46th) while calling states far ahead of it (Washington is 8th) "shitholes," moron?

Except these just aren't "right wingers" moving out of these states. Many of these folks are considered middle of road "non political", that became fed up with seeing how their communities were being managed.

Piece of shit human, did you even bother to read the article? Explain how this is "middle of road," moron:


"He was the general manager of one of the largest independently owned gun stores in western Washington, a place where it’s not easy to be a conservative."

"He grew up conservative, listening to Rush Limbaugh in his dad’s work truck."

Yep, just a bunch of middle-of-the-roaders, huh, moron?
 
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U.S. News released their annual state rankings yesterday.

Do you realize how dumb it makes you look when defending the state you live in (46th) while calling states far ahead of it (Washington is 8th) "shitholes," moron?



Piece of shit human, did you even bother to read the article? Explain how this is "middle of road," moron:


"He was the general manager of one of the largest independently owned gun stores in western Washington, a place where it’s not easy to be a conservative."

"He grew up conservative, listening to Rush Limbaugh in his dad’s work truck."

Yep, just a bunch of middle-of-the-roaders, huh, moron?
🤣 🤣 🤣

Who is the moron who cant read? This article was two different families. Why do you struggle with basic reading comprehension?

Nick Kostenborder: The libertarian...... As a kid his parents listen to Rush limbaugh and that makes him a right winger? 🤣🤣
Bryan Zielinski: The gun store manager.

Try harder.
 
Who is the moron who cant read? This article was two different families. Why do you struggle with basic reading comprehension?
Clearly, you. It's why I referred to them as "middle-of-the-roaders," which is plural. Had I thought it was one family/person, like you incorrectly claimed I did, I wouldn't have used the plural version. It's also why I separated them in paragraphs. Do you ever get sick of showcasing just how stupid of a person you are?
 
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Clearly, you. It's why I referred to them as "middle-of-the-roaders," which is plural. Had I thought it was one family/person, like you incorrectly claimed I did, I wouldn't have used the plural version. It's also why I separated them in paragraphs. Do you ever get sick of showcasing just how stupid of a person you are?
You still cant demonstrate that a libertarian is not middle of the road can you?
 
You still cant demonstrate that a libertarian is not middle of the road can you?
So you were wrong on your last attempt, and I'll show you to be wrong again. At least you're consistent!

Here is the quote that was used: "He grew up conservative, listening to Rush Limbaugh in his dad’s work truck. As an adult, he drifted toward libertarianism, moved to Portland and played drums in a series of bands. He didn’t mind that his political views were considered fringe in the blue stronghold because . . . "

Your own source claims his libertarian views were considered "fringe" compared to what was in Portland. A fringe view is neither the majority (democrat) nor minority (republican) stance. It is "fringe" because it is outside of norms. It's definitely not "middle of the road," as Libertarians lean Republican on most issues. Overall, Libertarians have fringe (outside the norm) views which don't put them as middle-of-the-road, but rather (and quite literally many times), on the dirt road that runs well outside of town.

So he grew up as Republican, drifted away from that (so no longer Republican) to Libertarian, and was thus considered "fringe." That's not middle-of-the-road, moron. It's a totally different road.

Middle-of-the-road would be moderates, which libertarians definitely are not on most major issues.
 
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Your own source claims his libertarian views were considered "fringe" compared to what was in Portland.
I wasn't responding to the Portland's political leanings moron. I was responding to Raoul's suggestion that every single person in the article was a "right winger". They are not. See, even you admit it.....
drifted away from that (so no longer Republican) to Libertarian,
 
I wasn't responding to the Portland's political leanings moron. I was responding to Raoul's suggestion that every single person in the article was a "right winger". They are not. See, even you admit it.....

That would make sense if you hadn’t said this:

You still cant demonstrate that a libertarian is not middle of the road can you?
So did your stance change within the last hour or did you get caught lying again?

Hint: don’t call people “morons” when they are significantly more intelligent than you, especially in a thread where they are exposing your inconsistent argument and showing you to be a liar.
 
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Becoming? Idaho has long been a destination for right wingers, Klanners, and Neo Nazis.
So people that don’t want to raise their children among crime and homeless camps are, in your opinion, neo Nazis? Did you move to the Midwest due to your Klan leanings?
 
Is "libertarian" a "right winger" now? Maybe KY calling you a liberal left loony is accurate.
American Libertarians generally are fairly on the right side of the line, yes. Small-government minded in the mold of Reaganism.

Can you name any libertarians that caucus with the Democrats? Now can you name any that caucus with the Republicans? See how easy this is?

There's a reason the WVGOP let libertarians vote in their primaries, and it's not because they are leftists.

Remember the Tea Party movement? 40% identified as libertarian....and then it was largely absorbed into mainstream GOP politics. https://reason.com/2011/09/26/is-half-the-tea-part-libertart/

I have likely been to more local libertarian meetings than anyone here. I have yet to encounter anyone resembling a liberal. On the philosophical side, there are indeed leftist libertarians, but in practice you will likely never run into one here in the USA outside of some very fringe anarchists...most acting anarchists are indeed far left.

Rifle did a fine job with the rest.
 
That would make sense if you hadn’t said this:


So did your stance change within the last hour or did you get caught lying again?

Hint: don’t call people “morons” when they are significantly more intelligent than you, especially in a thread where they are exposing your inconsistent argument and showing you to be a liar.
There is nothing inconsistent with my position. Even Raoul admits (see above) there are libertarians that aren't "right wing"....

Libertarian's are middle of the road when discussing "right wingers" which was the discussion.

Try again. Yes. You're a moron.
 
So people that don’t want to raise their children among crime and homeless camps are, in your opinion, neo Nazis? Did you move to the Midwest due to your Klan leanings?
I said Idaho has long been a destination for three specific groups. All of whom happen to be on the right, just to varying degrees.

Oh, and where I moved to has a history of slaughtering slavery supporters. Maybe you have heard of the Brown family, they would behead them with a broadsword.

I don't consider this the Midwest. Huntington feels more Midwest than here; as a Midwest native, I would know. This feels like.....Oklahoma lol. Ranch country.
 
Well well well. Take it up with Rifle.

That wasn't the argument.
Do you enjoy cutting off the qualifying parts of quotes? This part is pretty important:

"but in practice you will likely never run into one here in the USA"

This might be a shocker to you, but we are discussing American politics in this thread.

And your only argument is you don't like being exposed as an idiot after you post something stupid.
 
Well well well. Take it up with Rifle.
What? Are you trying to prove to everybody with each post that you're a moron? Libertarians are, as the article state, "fringe." They are not moderates (middle-of-the-roaders). Sure, some Libertarians lean more left or more right. Overall, they strong favor a lean to the right.

That still doesn't make them middle-of-the-road/moderates. They are on their own road.

Nothing Raoul said disputes that, but you're simply trying to muddy the water to avoid making look as dumb as usual.
 
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Libertarian's are middle of the road when discussing "right wingers" which was the discussion.
No, they aren't. Your desperate attempt to try to escape lying in this thread and being even more of a moron has you arguing stupid positions.



There is nothing inconsistent with my position. Even Raoul admits (see above) there are libertarians that aren't "right wing"....
You've already been called out by another poster for your dishonesty with this attempt.
 
Sure, some Libertarians lean more left or more right.
So they aren't "right wingers"? Meaning they are not left or right, just "on their own road"..... got it.

Another semantic argument comes and goes. Tells you how far the political left has fallen into lunacy doesn't it? When even a libertarian is viewed a right winger.
 
So they aren't "right wingers"? Meaning they are not left or right, just "on their own road"..... got it.

Another semantic argument comes and goes. Tells you how far the political left has fallen into lunacy doesn't it? When even a libertarian is viewed a right winger.
You're now arguing that libertarians, overall, don't agree with Republicans more than Democrats on most major issues?

You've lost repeatedly in this thread, just like the other one you've tried muddying the waters in. Here's an idea that KYJelly just found out within the last couple of days: trying to defend moronic posts from people like 30Kitty will usually make you look dumber than his original post.
 
No, they aren't. Your desperate attempt to try to escape lying in this thread and being even more of a moron has you arguing stupid positions.


You've already been called out by another poster for your dishonesty with this attempt.
Who Raoul? Please. The same guy that repeated lies on here for years about Russia pee tapes and still jumps to the "I was kidding/ being sarcastic" excuses when he's called out for anything less than honest. Laughable.

You two get your stories lined up and come back. Either Libertarians are right wingers or they aren't. The simple fact you both keep shifting the argument from "leftist libertarians" and "on their own road" makes it impossible to discuss.
 
Who Raoul? Please. The same guy that repeated lies on here for years about Russia pee tapes and still jumps to the "I was kidding/ being sarcastic" excuses when he's called out for anything less than honest. Laughable.

You two get your stories lined up and come back. Either Libertarians are right wingers or they aren't. The simple fact you both keep shifting the argument from "leftist libertarians" and "on their own road" makes it impossible to discuss.
You lost. The line has been the same. Libertarians are neither R nor D, but they far more frequently support R views on major issues. Overall, they are not "middle of the road," which is what moderates are.

You've tried muddying this enough to save face, but you came out looking just as ugly as usual.
 
You're now arguing that libertarians, overall, don't agree with Republicans more than Democrats on most major issues?
You're trying way to hard here. Stay on topic and quit moving the goalposts. You look like a moron. You are a moron.
trying to defend moronic posts from people like 30Kitty will usually make you look dumber than his original post.
Then take your own advice and stfu. You're not looking any smarter.
 
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Except for a certain liberal that thinks he's a libertarian...
"To the right of Eisenhower" no less. haha

I have no idea why the political left wont admit that it's not just right wingers leaving these democrat (failing) enclaves (I jest, we know why). It is middle of the road people. People with families. People retiring. People with jobs that allow them to work anywhere, besides where they are. People who would consider themselves a "moderate" "middle of the road".
 
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You're now arguing that libertarians, overall, don't agree with Republicans more than Democrats on most major issues?

You've lost repeatedly in this thread, just like the other one you've tried muddying the waters in. Here's an idea that KYJelly just found out within the last couple of days: trying to defend moronic posts from people like 30Kitty will usually make you look dumber than his original post.
Depends on the issue
 
Oh, and where I moved to has a history of slaughtering slavery supporters. Maybe you have heard of the Brown family, they would behead them with a broadsword.
That was more north of where you are. Ottawa, Lawrence, LeCompton etc. Free staters took plenty of L’s there as well.

Stop at BETO Junction to get a cinnamon roll. They used to be as big as the plate.
 
You're trying way to hard here.
*two, moron.

quit moving the goalposts.
That's what you have done multiple times to try and save face. Hell, your own post contradicted yourself, and you've avoided it more than intelligence has avoided you.

You lost. You looked really stupid multiple times. You should be very comfortable with that role now.
 
Why am I not shocked that you didn't bother to read the article you posted?

So as long as it's conservatives and Constitution sticklers leaving, it's all good? People are leaving their states because of Democrat policies.

I didn't say bleaters were leaving, I said people are leaving. Are conservatives not people?
 
U.S. News released their annual state rankings yesterday.

Do you realize how dumb it makes you look when defending the state you live in (46th) while calling states far ahead of it (Washington is 8th) "shitholes," moron?

Big Blue states, like California, Oregon, Washington and New York are definitely shitholes, being destroyed by Democrat policies. People are leaving them and headed for Red states.

California leads the nation in lost population. It isn't because it's a beautiful state with endless amounts of things to do, because it is.

It's because Democrat policies have sprinkled shit all over the state and making its citizens pay for it. People are sick of it.
 
Big Blue states, like California, Oregon, Washington and New York are definitely shitholes, being destroyed by Democrat policies. People are leaving them and headed for Red states.

California leads the nation in lost population. It isn't because it's a beautiful state with endless amounts of things to do, because it is.

It's because Democrat policies have sprinkled shit all over the state and making its citizens pay for it. People are sick of it.
This may be hard for you to understand (because basically, anything other than 1+1 is for you), but net migration is almost exactly following high tax vs. low tax state and high cost of living vs. low cost of living states. It's because the deplorables/poors can't keep up.

Overall, Alabama and South Carolina are shit states, yet they both had some of the highest net migration last year. Why? Low taxes and low cost of living.

Why did Utah, which had led in population growth over the last decade, stay flat? It's because the cost-of-living there has skyrocketed, mostly thanks to housing prices that increased as fast as anywhere but didn't subside until halfway through 2023. It has nothing to do with homelessness, violence, taking away guns, or any of the other stupid shit you have tried to claim.

California, NY, and Hawaii saw the highest net migration loss by percent, and it isn't a coincidence that those three states are all in the top seven for cost of living.
 
This may be hard for you to understand (because basically, anything other than 1+1 is for you), but net migration is almost exactly following high tax vs. low tax state and high cost of living vs. low cost of living states. It's because the deplorables/poors can't keep up.

Overall, Alabama and South Carolina are shit states, yet they both had some of the highest net migration last year. Why? Low taxes and low cost of living.

Why did Utah, which had led in population growth over the last decade, stay flat? It's because the cost-of-living there has skyrocketed, mostly thanks to housing prices that increased as fast as anywhere but didn't subside until halfway through 2023. It has nothing to do with homelessness, violence, taking away guns, or any of the other stupid shit you have tried to claim.

California, NY, and Hawaii saw the highest net migration loss by percent, and it isn't a coincidence that those three states are all in the top seven for cost of living.

High cost for Hawaii, I understand a little. Most Everything has to be shipped in. I mean, almost $8 for a gallon of milk? Can't imagine the expense living there. It probably doesn't have to deal with many illegal foreign nationals either.

Shithole California? How expensive is it?

Illegal foreign nationals live there for free at the citizens' expense.

Homelessness is off the hook. Crime runs rampant, its people are taxed way too much, deep in debt and extreme, government overreach, just name a few things that make it a shithole.

Shiiiiiiithole.
 
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