Arena?

[TwolfHerdfan]

I bet you just tickled yourself to death attempting to be witty.
You couldn't be more wrong.
The Dog Park is an aesthetic to Ritter itself. The fact it won, says it fits what was needed. A dog park attracts people to it because...dogs.

As for the ABC contest and the $$$ won?
You have to submit a plan for what the money will go towards prior to being judged in it. Williams' plans didn't include a baseball field at all so you can stop rambling about like an idiot.

As for the Needle Exchange, opposing it is a tremendously bad idea both short and long term. I'd explain it to you but I doubt you'd comprehend.

You can find where all the development plans are here:

City of Huntington

https://www.cityofhuntington.com/

www.cityofhuntington.com

Yeah, that needle exchange program has really helped curb the drug use problem and prevented an HIV outbreak. Oh wait, not. Steve Williams and Co. love to play up the social hot buttons but don't do jack shit about the local business economy. Good Lord, this town will be one big shithole in 10 years with a big recovery house on every block. All while the population continues to shrink and Marshall withers away.

Maybe Monty Fowler and Nicloas Freidlin can run for office, they write enough letters to the editor of the HD and always have the answers. lol!

Huntington needs to take a no tolerance policy on the druggies and tell them to get gone. The pussy softball, enabling approach hasn't done shit to improve the situation - but it looks so good for the bleeding hearts.

 

[greengeezer]

I-64 in Cabell County predated I-64 in Charleston by at least 10 years

I certainly remember that when I first traveled to Marshall my freshman year. Getting through Charleston was a mess. As I recall, you had to drive almost all the way to St Albans before you could get on I-64.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Look, I have been away from Htgn twice as long as I lived there from birth through a year after graduating MU. So yes, I don’t have a feel for what’s currently happening there. Having said that - it seems Htgn has been making poor decisions for decades! Harold Frankel to Booby Nelson to Jean Dean to Steve Williams. No talent mayors + ineffective city councils - population + the more recent drug epidemic….bad math all the way around! Marshall has been making tangible progress, both in terms of expanding the accredited degrees it offers as well as the additional infrastructure to support those degrees. Mountain Health, in conjunction with the Med School, is flourishing. Kopp was an exceptional leader, gone too soon. Jerry Gilbert has overseen progress, but also ruffled feathers so he is out. I don’t know the specifics of this arena proposal, but seems to me it can only help, especially if it can take on concerts & outside events in addition to MU sports teams.

And, with Huntington set up in the classic grid pattern, doing anything to mess with that would have been a disaster!! Keeping I-64 away from down town may be one of the best decisions ever made!!

 

[goherd73]

The problem with putting I-64 through Huntington was deciding which community would be destroyed by the interstate. Southside? Eastend?

Charleston in it's infinite wisdom decided every damn interstate in WV should go through Charleston (except for I-70 through Wheeling) which destroyed and divided communities.

Now wherever you are in Charleston you can enjoy the roar of the interstate.

And even with putting the Mall and Interstates in downtown Charleston I think downtown Huntington is more vibrant than downtown Charleston. And more peaceful.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Understand all that but I also think the Mall and surrounding developments might have made the area a little more attractive.

We have friends in Hurricane - Teays Valley. Some seem to gravitate towards Charleston and some to Huntington so who knows.

Sounds like you might gravitate more to Charleston.

The area increased residents before the Charleston Town Center began to decline.
Having been to the Town Center recently, it renewed my favor for the Huntington mall.

 

[goherd73]

The Mall decision was much later than the 50/60's and really wasn't made by the city. It was a direct result of the lawsuit brought by the downtown merchants.

Yeah the Mall Wars were fought in the 70's. The Huntington Mall opened in 81. In addition to the lawsuit, the potential Mall builders were concerned about having enough space for the Mall and parking in the downtown area as well as paying city B&O taxes.

They found the perfect solution in finding an unincorporated area a few miles east of Huntington. Lots of space no B&O taxes.

They purchased the area and started building. Then the Village of Barboursville annexed the area and started charging B&O taxes.

 

[goherd73]

You know KyMUfan, I think Lexington and Huntington are so similar except for one thing. Both have a college contributing to the city's health. Both have their interstates going around the city and not through. And both have their major shopping Mall located outside the downtown area.

The main difference, and it's a big one, Lexington has combined the city/county. WV doesn't allow this.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

You know KyMUfan, I think Lexington and Huntington are so similar except for one thing. Both have a college contributing to the city's health. Both have their interstates going around the city and not through. And both have their major shopping Mall located outside the downtown area.

The main difference, and it's a big one, Lexington has combined the city/county. WV doesn't allow this.

Fact -

Population of Huntington in 1950 - 81K
Lexington - 55K

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

The problem with putting I-64 through Huntington was deciding which community would be destroyed by the interstate. Southside? Eastend?

Charleston in it's infinite wisdom decided every damn interstate in WV should go through Charleston (except for I-70 through Wheeling) which destroyed and divided communities.

Now wherever you are in Charleston you can enjoy the roar of the interstate.

And even with putting the Mall and Interstates in downtown Charleston I think downtown Huntington is more vibrant than downtown Charleston. And more peaceful.

Actually, downtown Huntington is doing really well. Vibrant and always foot traffic any day of the week. Pullman really spurred the growth.

 

[The Real SamC]

OK, I-64. The standard design was what happened in Huntington, which was in the early 60s. Cities of that size were supposed to be bypassed. Interstates were supposed to only go into a city center if a city was large enough to also have a beltway or bypass, a 3 digit interstate.

Charleston is the one that deviated from the standard. This was 8 to 10 years later, and Charleston's (and West Virginia's) government was 100% racist. The road was supposed to bypass Charleston on the back side of Kanawha City. But they saw the opportunity to destroy the black community, which was centered on the "Triangle District", which today is where the big merge of the interstates and the large water plant is. The state really did nothing for the people in the hopes they would just move away (didn't work, they just took over Elk City).



As to the mall, that was much later. Story is well known. Fact is suburban malls work, downtown malls don't. Long before C***d and the end of "brick and mortar" shopping due to Amazon and the like, Huntington Mall was doing like 4 times the business of the nightcrawler infested town center.

As to Huntington v. Lexington, the combined city-county government has little to do with the growth versus decline. During the period in question, Kentucky treated job creators well, while WV treated job creators like garbage.

 

[goherd73]

Fact -

Population of Huntington in 1950 - 81K
Lexington - 55K

Yep and when they combined the city and county into one entity they doubled in size from 108,000 to 204,000. The horse industry is still big there. And Toyota just north in Georgetown is a big deal.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Yep and when they combined the city and county into one entity they doubled in size from 108,000 to 204,000. The horse industry is still big there. And Toyota just north in Georgetown is a big deal.

Lexington population now is 324K
While Huntington has shrunk to 47K.

But I bet we have more recovery houses.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Yeah, that needle exchange program has really helped curb the drug use problem and prevented an HIV outbreak.

Its not meant to directly fight addiction. Its a preventative measure to keep people alive. The developmental aspect, in giving those who used the program something to build off of, like a healthy economy and long term therapeutic resources, are hard to come by. The latter is due to funds and the former is a state-wide problem by WV's woefully terrible governor ans certainly not limited to 1 city.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Its not meant to directly fight addiction. Its a preventative measure to keep people alive. The developmental aspect, in giving those who used the program something to build off of, like a healthy economy and long term therapeutic resources, are hard to come by. The latter is due to funds and the former is a state-wide problem by WV's woefully terrible governor ans certainly not limited to 1 city.

It’s a well known fact it invites elements and others from outside the city here to take advantage of our (generosity) all the while adding more people to the problem.

It’s also a well known fact that 3/4 of the recovery houses have more drugs than what’s on the street and are in existence just to con grant and government monies for the slime balls that run them.

I am all for helping those who really want and need help but let’s be real, the percentage of those is less than 10%.

The city caters to the druggies all the while wondering why people are moving away from this shithole. Idiots

 

[goherd73]

Lexington population now is 324K
While Huntington has shrunk to 47K.

That's pretty stark isn't it? The loss of the coal industry and related industry has doomed Huntington.
Also the loss of high paying admin jobs at Ashland Oil and CSX really hurt the economy.

Lexington has a LOT of money and a diversified economy and the government in Frankfort is pro City growth while the government in Charleston is anti City growth.

Remember one thing when comparing populations of Huntington/Lexington:

Lexington's population includes Fayette County while Huntington's doesn't include Cabell County.

In other words Huntington's population is in 19 sq. miles while Lexington's is in 286 sq. miles.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

That's pretty stark isn't it? The loss of the coal industry and related industry has doomed Huntington.
Also the loss of high paying admin jobs at Ashland Oil and CSX really hurt the economy.

Lexington has a LOT of money and a diversified economy and the government in Frankfort is pro City growth while the government in Charleston is anti City growth.

Remember one thing when comparing populations of Huntington/Lexington:

Lexington's population includes Fayette County while Huntington's doesn't include Cabell County.

In other words Huntington's population is in 19 sq. miles while Lexington's is in 286 sq. miles.

Yep. The states reliance on coal and the coal severance tax has killed us. Instead of diversifying the state's economy back in the 70's when the coal industry started to slide, those in Charley West decided to ride that horse until he was dead - which killed the state as well.
The companies you mentioned plus the loss of Owen Illinois, Houdaille Industries and such hurt us badly.

BTW, the Metro Lexington population is 517K. Pretty incredible growth for that area. I like Lexington a lot.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It’s a well known fact it invites elements and others from outside the city here to take advantage of our (generosity) all the while adding more people to the problem.

It’s also a well known fact that 3/4 of the recovery houses have more drugs than what’s on the street and are in existence just to con grant and government monies for the slime balls that run them.

I am all for helping those who really want and need help but let’s be real, the percentage of those is less than 10%.

The city caters to the druggies all the while wondering why people are moving away from this shithole. Idiots

It invites elements of people who want to live. Hence why remaining counties like Cabell, have increases. Most don't want to be addicted, but the wonderful leadership of WV over the last 50+ years has afforded nothing for anyone.
Fact is, needles cost less than $1.00 each, versus just 1 bad needle creating tens of thousands of dollars in lifetime treatment costs for someone.
If say 500 addicts used 100,000 needles in a clean exchange program for a year, thats $100,000 spent in a single year.
If just 1 person got Hep C, the cost for a 12 week treatment would be anywhere from roughly $40,000 to damn near $95,000 ( https://www.healthline.com/health/hepatitis-c/treatment-costs ).
Oh and something as common as Hep C, can reinfect you after you've gone through treatment...and HIV? Well, thats a lifetime commitment and can cost a ton as well.
Just 4 or 5 people from that group have already exceeded the costs of what was spent pn clean needles. Its not guaranteed to fix everyone, but once more, imagine the tax money spent on that versus other programs that can help people.

This isn't a damn cure for the problem, its a deterrent for a long term, expensive, and dangerous public health issue.
The biggest problem is the long term measures not able to be taken, as I said before as to why this is.

WV's history has been deep rooted in labor/hands on intensive work. Problem is, it is somewhat unstable, with newer, younger able bodied people ready to work it. Education wasn't as emphasized because you don't need parallelograms to work underground. So already you're limiting yourself. Plus, the whole, "its a tradition in my family" thing. Plenty of otherwise smart, potentially professionally educated folks, opted out of that and went into the mines.
As industry began to fade, so did the jobs, but also, so did opportunity to do anything else.
Then you're injured on the job. You go to a doctor, who's been convinced through pharm salesmen and financial incentives, that you're not just in pain, but like, "you're in major PAIN!" Then prescribe a medication either: you probably shouldn't be taking to begin with, or is several times the dose you should take to begin with.
Oh, then you got laid off either because the mine is cutting the workforce or your injury is taking too long and they need fresh bodies.
So, you have nowhere else to go, no real formal education, still healing from the injury, and taking a very powerful opioid.
What could go wrong?
WV offers you nothing beyond what you believe is the way to go, when other states have moved onto inventive methods to grow, WV still screams, "Coal!"
So, you have no job, got a decent but now no more paycheck, live in a holler in the coal fields, beginning to like the opioids you're on, and no other training except one in a dying industry.
Dr. continues to prescribe the meds, reminding you that you are in pain...even if you're not. If you think such a problem doesn't lead to physical and chemical changes in your body and brain, well, it does, and you don't need to go very far to prove this.
You also have leadership who turns a blind eye for so many years that an early measure taken to stop this from happening, has become an almost insurmountable obstacle, that people like you believe can be fixed by doing quite possibly the worst action ever.

Lets be real, you aren't actually wanting to help anyone with such statements. Should free COVID clinics shut down because people get their vaccine and don't follow guidelines, risking infecting others with wreckless behavior?
"Durrr, I got the vaccine, I don't need to wear a mask!!! The rules no longer apply to me!!" Difference is, COVID isn't dealing with addiction, you idiots are consciously making the choice as opposed to people at the lowest depth of their lives.
Williams and the city are in day 3 of a trial against the 3 largest drug distributors that fueled this epidemic. We're looking at hundreds of millions at least, for Huntington and Cabell Counties alone (https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ginia-billion-dollar-opioid-trial-2021-05-03/ ).
This is a potentially huge case that could start a big domino effect for other areas in America hit hard by some of the greediest POS' out there...plus, I imagine Williams has a better chance at getting more out of Pharma than say, Morrisey who got the state, maybe $5 million from a multi-billion dollar settlement from Purdue ( https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virg...ocation-following-complaint-from-ag-morrisey/ ).

Here's to hoping for a turnaround.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

The city caters to the druggies all the while wondering why people are moving away from this shithole. Idiots

Maybe its because there's no major economy in WV? Because the younger generations are seeing that coal is dying and professional degrees can be beneficial, just not in WV? Oh sure, drugs are a problem and many have moved because of them, but drugs exist everywhere, and yet, plenty of cities are increasing populations because they aren't being piloted by a bunch of greedy lunatics stuck in the 1950's.

Brad Smith is paying people to live in WV but not work in WV?
Maybe if WV diversified its economy, it wouldn't lose its population.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

It invites elements of people who want to live. Hence why remaining counties like Cabell, have increases. Most don't want to be addicted, but the wonderful leadership of WV over the last 50+ years has afforded nothing for anyone.
Fact is, needles cost less than $1.00 each, versus just 1 bad needle creating tens of thousands of dollars in lifetime treatment costs for someone.
If say 500 addicts used 100,000 needles in a clean exchange program for a year, thats $100,000 spent in a single year.
If just 1 person got Hep C, the cost for a 12 week treatment would be anywhere from roughly $40,000 to damn near $95,000 ( https://www.healthline.com/health/hepatitis-c/treatment-costs ).
Oh and something as common as Hep C, can reinfect you after you've gone through treatment...and HIV? Well, thats a lifetime commitment and can cost a ton as well.
Just 4 or 5 people from that group have already exceeded the costs of what was spent pn clean needles. Its not guaranteed to fix everyone, but once more, imagine the tax money spent on that versus other programs that can help people.

This isn't a damn cure for the problem, its a deterrent for a long term, expensive, and dangerous public health issue.
The biggest problem is the long term measures not able to be taken, as I said before as to why this is.

WV's history has been deep rooted in labor/hands on intensive work. Problem is, it is somewhat unstable, with newer, younger able bodied people ready to work it. Education wasn't as emphasized because you don't need parallelograms to work underground. So already you're limiting yourself. Plus, the whole, "its a tradition in my family" thing. Plenty of otherwise smart, potentially professionally educated folks, opted out of that and went into the mines.
As industry began to fade, so did the jobs, but also, so did opportunity to do anything else.
Then you're injured on the job. You go to a doctor, who's been convinced through pharm salesmen and financial incentives, that you're not just in pain, but like, "you're in major PAIN!" Then prescribe a medication either: you probably shouldn't be taking to begin with, or is several times the dose you should take to begin with.
Oh, then you got laid off either because the mine is cutting the workforce or your injury is taking too long and they need fresh bodies.
So, you have nowhere else to go, no real formal education, still healing from the injury, and taking a very powerful opioid.
What could go wrong?
WV offers you nothing beyond what you believe is the way to go, when other states have moved onto inventive methods to grow, WV still screams, "Coal!"
So, you have no job, got a decent but now no more paycheck, live in a holler in the coal fields, beginning to like the opioids you're on, and no other training except one in a dying industry.
Dr. continues to prescribe the meds, reminding you that you are in pain...even if you're not. If you think such a problem doesn't lead to physical and chemical changes in your body and brain, well, it does, and you don't need to go very far to prove this.
You also have leadership who turns a blind eye for so many years that an early measure taken to stop this from happening, has become an almost insurmountable obstacle, that people like you believe can be fixed by doing quite possibly the worst action ever.

Lets be real, you aren't actually wanting to help anyone with such statements. Should free COVID clinics shut down because people get their vaccine and don't follow guidelines, risking infecting others with wreckless behavior?
"Durrr, I got the vaccine, I don't need to wear a mask!!! The rules no longer apply to me!!" Difference is, COVID isn't dealing with addiction, you idiots are consciously making the choice as opposed to people at the lowest depth of their lives.
Williams and the city are in day 3 of a trial against the 3 largest drug distributors that fueled this epidemic. We're looking at hundreds of millions at least, for Huntington and Cabell Counties alone (https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ginia-billion-dollar-opioid-trial-2021-05-03/ ).
This is a potentially huge case that could start a big domino effect for other areas in America hit hard by some of the greediest POS' out there...plus, I imagine Williams has a better chance at getting more out of Pharma than say, Morrisey who got the state, maybe $5 million from a multi-billion dollar settlement from Purdue ( https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virg...ocation-following-complaint-from-ag-morrisey/ ).

Here's to hoping for a turnaround.

Well put. I don’t agree about how we have handled the drug issue or needle exchange. I doubt anyone can say we have actually helped the issues as a result. It’s still here after multiple years with no hope of getting better. Sadly, we can’t save everyone and many don’t want help.

Problem is, I have no confidence in the leadership of this city, county or state. I seriously doubt any monies won from this lawsuit will benefit Huntington.

Hell, I doubt any monies will trickle down to the legit programs who help addicts.

I have plans to leave here after I retire and I would encourage anyone under 40 to do the same. Nothing here and it won’t get better.
I laugh at the notion Williams thinks someone will move here to escape the urban rat race. We don’t have reliable internet/ fiber optics nor do we have any jobs. How the hell is someone supposed to work remotely when they can’t get a reliable and consistent connection.
This town, area and state need a freaking miracle

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Maybe its because there's no major economy in WV? Because the younger generations are seeing that coal is dying and professional degrees can be beneficial, just not in WV? Oh sure, drugs are a problem and many have moved because of them, but drugs exist everywhere, and yet, plenty of cities are increasing populations because they aren't being piloted by a bunch of greedy lunatics stuck in the 1950's.

Brad Smith is paying people to live in WV but not work in WV?
Maybe if WV diversified its economy, it wouldn't lose its population.

I never could get the - I can’t get a job, so I think I will start using drugs thought.
That’s a damn weak excuse for anyone. That’s being damn lazy and making excuses.
You are right , the leadership has failed us miserably.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

…..and then there is the 100-120 year old plumbing underneath the city. “Gotta get that fixed!!”

 

[KyMUfan]

You know KyMUfan, I think Lexington and Huntington are so similar except for one thing. Both have a college contributing to the city's health. Both have their interstates going around the city and not through. And both have their major shopping Mall located outside the downtown area.

The main difference, and it's a big one, Lexington has combined the city/county. WV doesn't allow this.

Ashland - Boyd County voted unigov down several years ago and it hasn't reappeared since.

While I agree with your similarities I believe there are several differences. Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. UK is the big brother to other KY universities while unfortunately MU is the little brother to WVU. Morgantown, like Lexington, has grown while Huntington has contracted.
2. Lexington-Fayette County net profits and payroll taxes are at relatively high rates. Are payroll taxes still disallowed in WV?
3. Lexington is centrally located in KY and draws from all over the state while Huntington is tucked away in a corner with natural state boundaries.
4. Lexington has always has a rather diverse economy and not dependent on transportation, mining, manufacturing, etc.
5. Healthcare - people from Eastern KY are often 1 hour closer to Huntington but will travel to Lexington because of facilities, health insurance networks, etc.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I never could get the - I can’t get a job, so I think I will start using drugs thought.
That’s a damn weak excuse for anyone. That’s being damn lazy and making excuses.
You are right , the leadership has failed us miserably.

Its not the first thing said on 9/10 people's minds I'd say.How many would be like, "I got fired. Let's do some heroin!!"
Its usually after someone hasn't been able to recover occupationally, being a massive breadwinmer for their families due to obligations, and if they are given any meds, well, very few legitimately chose to be this way since it has been proven that pharm companies purposely lied and manipulated doctors to prescribe insane amounts of opioids to unsuspecting victims.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Well put. I don’t agree about how we have handled the drug issue or needle exchange. I doubt anyone can say we have actually helped the issues as a result. It’s still here after multiple years with no hope of getting better. Sadly, we can’t save everyone and many don’t want help.

Problem is, I have no confidence in the leadership of this city, county or state. I seriously doubt any monies won from this lawsuit will benefit Huntington.

Hell, I doubt any monies will trickle down to the legit programs who help addicts.

I have plans to leave here after I retire and I would encourage anyone under 40 to do the same. Nothing here and it won’t get better.
I laugh at the notion Williams thinks someone will move here to escape the urban rat race. We don’t have reliable internet/ fiber optics nor do we have any jobs. How the hell is someone supposed to work remotely when they can’t get a reliable and consistent connection.
This town, area and state need a freaking miracle

You're entitled to your beliefs. But already casting doubt on a situation WV and Huntington has never faced, is the exact reason why WV does NOT advance. What good is such an attitude?
Better yet, why all the doubt even if Huntington DOES win a good chunk of the money from the lawsuit? Williams isn't some messiah, hell no. But at least he isn't doing the same old same old. I'll give him credit for trying to move the city in the right direction...but as we've seen with state legislature, it isn't easy.

BTW your rant on out of state folks should be directed at morganhole, which is where the first of the remote working areas will be, and sadly, I agreed with you on it. Williams is currently taking Comcast to court I believe, due to their horrible internet, creating a monopoly on the area, and actually trying to block Williams' program for increased internet through other internet service providers.
Plenty don't want to leave WV, but the state doesn't care, I wouldn't put that on 1 person in 1 city in the whole state either.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

You're entitled to your beliefs. But already casting doubt on a situation WV and Huntington has never faced, is the exact reason why WV does NOT advance. What good is such an attitude?
Better yet, why all the doubt even if Huntington DOES win a good chunk of the money from the lawsuit? Williams isn't some messiah, hell no. But at least he isn't doing the same old same old. I'll give him credit for trying to move the city in the right direction...but as we've seen with state legislature, it isn't easy.

BTW your rant on out of state folks should be directed at morganhole, which is where the first of the remote working areas will be, and sadly, I agreed with you on it. Williams is currently taking Comcast to court I believe, due to their horrible internet, creating a monopoly on the area, and actually trying to block Williams' program for increased internet through other internet service providers.
Plenty don't want to leave WV, but the state doesn't care, I wouldn't put that on 1 person in 1 city in the whole state either.

You're entitled to your beliefs. But already casting doubt on a situation WV and Huntington has never faced, is the exact reason why WV does NOT advance. What good is such an attitude?
Better yet, why all the doubt even if Huntington DOES win a good chunk of the money from the lawsuit? Williams isn't some messiah, hell no. But at least he isn't doing the same old same old. I'll give him credit for trying to move the city in the right direction...but as we've seen with state legislature, it isn't easy.

BTW your rant on out of state folks should be directed at morganhole, which is where the first of the remote working areas will be, and sadly, I agreed with you on it. Williams is currently taking Comcast to court I believe, due to their horrible internet, creating a monopoly on the area, and actually trying to block Williams' program for increased internet through other internet service providers.
Plenty don't want to leave WV, but the state doesn't care, I wouldn't put that on 1 person in 1 city in the whole state either.

I see your point, but until the city cleans up the drug situation, no one is going to move here. This town has a bad reputation as a result of our pussy, enabling softball approach to the problem. Besides that, there are no jobs here besides Marshall, Mountain Health and the Cabell school system, maybe the VA Hospital. That's it. Kids have to leave to find jobs and never come back - I don't blame them.

They can continue to address the issues as they have; but in 10-15 years, when the cities population has dwindled to 30K or so and Marshall's enrollment dipped to 5K or so, maybe Stevie and Dr. Kilhkinny from the CHD can turn out the lights on the city. These clowns don't care about the future and this city.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Its not the first thing said on 9/10 people's minds I'd say.How many would be like, "I got fired. Let's do some heroin!!"
Its usually after someone hasn't been able to recover occupationally, being a massive breadwinmer for their families due to obligations, and if they are given any meds, well, very few legitimately chose to be this way since it has been proven that pharm companies purposely lied and manipulated doctors to prescribe insane amounts of opioids to unsuspecting victims.

I agree 100% the issue is on the docs and pharmacists. They knew what dispensing all these pills would do, but that was easy money in their pockets and they aren't gonna cut that pipeline. They are just as guilty as big pharma, if not more so.

Its not the first thing said on 9/10 people's minds I'd say.How many would be like, "I got fired. Let's do some heroin!!"
Its usually after someone hasn't been able to recover occupationally, being a massive breadwinmer for their families due to obligations, and if they are given any meds, well, very few legitimately chose to be this way since it has been proven that pharm companies purposely lied and manipulated doctors to prescribe insane amounts of opioids to unsuspecting victims.

Maybe the breadinner needs to suck it up and get two part time jobs until a full time gig becomes available. Nope, that's too hard, its too easy to sit his/her lazy ass on the sofa at home, get unemployment and start popping pills.

 

[The Real SamC]

The lawsuit is a totally bogus legal theory. Legal companies providing a legal product are a "public nuisance" because some POS dope fiend lied and cheated to get his dope.

So, its not the dope fiend's fault? No, it the drug company. The pharmacy. The doctor. Anybody, except the people actually responsible.

And, as we all know, if any level of any government gets any $$ from this or anything, they will waste it, as always.

As to all this pity party crap, this is well said:

I never could get the - I can’t get a job, so I think I will start using drugs thought.
That’s a damn weak excuse for anyone. That’s being damn lazy and making excuses.

Yep.

Lets look at the most extreme example, but lots of places are the same. WV's basket case county. McDowell.

In the last census of unified Virginia, 1860, McDowell was the least populous county in Virginia, 1,535 people. Ninety years later, the place was the third largest county in WV, 98,887. Today? 17,903.

Why?

Well, there is no Berlin Wall at the county line. No armed guards. People can live where they want. So who left? Decent people. Good people. Ordinary people. Joined the service to get out. Went to Marshall or Concord and got a degree to get out. Went south and just worked hard at physical labor to get out. People with the common sense to realize that they had the bad fortune to be born in a s***hole place that, with the coal gone, can no longer support life. Who stayed? POSs. People whose only desire is to stick their hands out and demand free $$, free food, free lawyers, free health care, free dope, and now demand free dope needles so they can commit their criminal dope dealing and using on our dime.

On up the river to Huntington. Not really that different. Not as stark, but really the same. No Huntington is not non-inhabitable, like most of the land to its south, but, for various reasons, can no longer support what it once did.

Sorry, but my concern is about the ordinary, the decent, and the good. The dope fiends might get the HIV or the Hep. Part of the risk they took when, born in a country so prosperous that millions without even the ability to speak its language sneak into it every year, they decided that this working for a living thing was for chumps.

The basic truths remain. If you don't have a job, get one. If you don't feel you make enough money, make yourself more valuable via acquiring more skills. Don't take drugs. Don't drink to excess. Don't reproduce in the absence of a strong life committed relationship and until you are able to support a family. Get as much education as you can. Save a little for a rainy day. Support the police.

 

[greengeezer]

Sam, I wear my heart on my sleeve most of the time and feel for the unfortunate, but as much as I want to label you a cold hearted SOB, I find myself agreeing with much of what you just posted.

 

[riflearm2]

Well, there is no Berlin Wall at the county line. No armed guards. People can live where they want. So who left? Decent people. Good people. Ordinary people. Joined the service to get out. Went to Marshall or Concord and got a degree to get out. Went south and just worked hard at physical labor to get out. People with the common sense to realize that they had the bad fortune to be born in a s***hole place that, with the coal gone, can no longer support life. Who stayed? POSs. People whose only desire is to stick their hands out and demand free $$, free food, free lawyers, free health care, free dope, and now demand free dope needles so they can commit their criminal dope dealing and using on our dime.

You could use that for the entire state of West Virginia instead of just McDowell County.

The lawsuit is a totally bogus legal theory. Legal companies providing a legal product are a "public nuisance" because some POS dope fiend lied and cheated to get his dope.

It's not a bogus theory in any way, shape, or form. What pharmaceutical companies have done entirely fits the legal definition of "nuisance." They, especially in the case of Johnson & Johnson, purposely misled doctors about the addictive potential of these pills which led to increased prescriptions for them. And that's far from the only thing.

Support the police.

Political comment. Mods, earn your paycheck on this one. Heave ho this bitch.

Interesting that you're against the court implementing an essentially police state by holding pharmaceutical companies accountable for their actions, yet you make a "support the police" statement.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I agree 100% the issue is on the docs and pharmacists. They knew what dispensing all these pills would do, but that was easy money in their pockets and they aren't gonna cut that pipeline. They are just as guilty as big pharma, if not more so.

Maybe the breadinner needs to suck it up and get two part time jobs until a full time gig becomes available. Nope, that's too hard, its too easy to sit his/her lazy ass on the sofa at home, get unemployment and start popping pills.

Breadwinner can't when he/she is unknowingly consuming 2x the amount of opioids and being convinced they are still in pain by their Dr. Breadwinner can't find a single job because WV's economy is based on one that they got fired from. Breadwinner doesn't have a formal education because their entire lives, were assured theu'd have a mine job.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I see your point, but until the city cleans up the drug situation, no one is going to move here. This town has a bad reputation as a result of our pussy, enabling softball approach to the problem. Besides that, there are no jobs here besides Marshall, Mountain Health and the Cabell school system, maybe the VA Hospital. That's it. Kids have to leave to find jobs and never come back - I don't blame them.

They can continue to address the issues as they have; but in 10-15 years, when the cities population has dwindled to 30K or so and Marshall's enrollment dipped to 5K or so, maybe Stevie and Dr. Kilhkinny from the CHD can turn out the lights on the city. These clowns don't care about the future and this city.

I don't blame Williams for the epidemic, as it had been coming years before he got into office. I blame WV and the ignorance of the prior leadership that there wasn't a problem because how could the Devil's Lettuce ever find its way into holier than thou West Virginia?!

The city's population has dwindled, drugs are a part of it, but certainly not all of it. Williams is the first to have actually acknowledged a problem, unlike others who simpky can't believe people would ever leave WV. Thats a state leadership problem however.

The approach isn't as pussified as you may think. I haven't heard your suggestions on how to counter the problem, but one of the more popular ones is, "more police and enforcement."
Yeah, thats a mere hurdle for any business thats been around as long as drug dealing has been, to counter, risk and all.
As long as there is a demand for the product, you'll see a presence of selling. You think more cops arresting dealers is going to change that? No, they're as expendable as a coal miner who got injured on the job.
Rehabilitation can reduce the reliance of drugs, thus, not only reducing the demand for it as a product for a business, but improve the culture as one not wanting it.
You'd see a ton of surf shops if WVians went to the coast to surf and a culture of it happened, enough for a business to set up. It hasn't so Ron Jon ain't coming here.
Can the same be said for drugs? Well, with a bunch of HIV and Hep C infected users, with hardly any resources to WANT to quit (because unlike people on here or who have had a better shot, its not as simple as you think), they'd be hard pressed and Detroit dealers will laugh at a small city increasing police...its not going to work, its not a challenge for them and entirely financially worth it.
As long as there is a demand for a product, there will always be a business to distribute it.
Rehab the population that they don't need drugs to live life, the dealers won't find it financially worth it.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Breadwinner can't when he/she is unknowingly consuming 2x the amount of opioids and being convinced they are still in pain by their Dr. Breadwinner can't find a single job because WV's economy is based on one that they got fired from. Breadwinner doesn't have a formal education because their entire lives, were assured theu'd have a mine job.

Nah, let’s throw personal responsibility and accountability out the window. No one makes them shoot up or pop pills to begin with. It’s always someone else’s fault.
Anyone that thought they would work in a coal mine their entire life after 1980 is not very smart any way. Sorry to say.

Certainly much blame to go around, but it all comes down to the choices the individual makes. Jmho

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I don't blame Williams for the epidemic, as it had been coming years before he got into office. I blame WV and the ignorance of the prior leadership that there wasn't a problem because how could the Devil's Lettuce ever find its way into holier than thou West Virginia?!

The city's population has dwindled, drugs are a part of it, but certainly not all of it. Williams is the first to have actually acknowledged a problem, unlike others who simpky can't believe people would ever leave WV. Thats a state leadership problem however.

The approach isn't as pussified as you may think. I haven't heard your suggestions on how to counter the problem, but one of the more popular ones is, "more police and enforcement."
Yeah, thats a mere hurdle for any business thats been around as long as drug dealing has been, to counter, risk and all.
As long as there is a demand for the product, you'll see a presence of selling. You think more cops arresting dealers is going to change that? No, they're as expendable as a coal miner who got injured on the job.
Rehabilitation can reduce the reliance of drugs, thus, not only reducing the demand for it as a product for a business, but improve the culture as one not wanting it.
You'd see a ton of surf shops if WVians went to the coast to surf and a culture of it happened, enough for a business to set up. It hasn't so Ron Jon ain't coming here.
Can the same be said for drugs? Well, with a bunch of HIV and Hep C infected users, with hardly any resources to WANT to quit (because unlike people on here or who have had a better shot, its not as simple as you think), they'd be hard pressed and Detroit dealers will laugh at a small city increasing police...its not going to work, its not a challenge for them and entirely financially worth it.
As long as there is a demand for a product, there will always be a business to distribute it.
Rehab the population that they don't need drugs to live life, the dealers won't find it financially worth it.

Williams isnt to blame but his softball approach isn’t getting it done. How long are we continue our current methods until someone admits they aren’t working?
No one will do that.
Jail them, let them detox there and then ship them back to Detroit or Columbus.

Why should we have to take on their derelicts and dealers?

The police arrest them and the magistrates let them out. I know a former police chief and several current officers and they are as frustrated as anyone. Their hands are tied.

Well, let’s enjoy the city going down the shitter and Marshall going with it. The bleeding hearts will still be trying to convince everyone this is the best way to combat the problem. Lol!
Hey, we got exposure on Netflix. I am sure Stevie loves that.

 

[MStap]

The lawsuit is a totally bogus legal theory. Legal companies providing a legal product are a "public nuisance" because some POS dope fiend lied and cheated to get his dope.

So, its not the dope fiend's fault? No, it the drug company. The pharmacy. The doctor. Anybody, except the people actually responsible.

This shows a complete lack of understanding of the factual allegations and legal theory, both for this specific case and just in general. The case in no way asserts that the drug addicts do not bear responsibility for the epidemic. Like many complex problems, this issue is multifaceted. The body of cases assert the drug companies, pharmacies, and some doctors are ALSO responsible. The getaway driver goes to prison with the guys that robbed the bank.

Big pharma purposefully lied to the medical community about the addictive nature of the opioids so they could make billions upon billions. They also have strict legal responsibilities that come with the ability to be in the pain killer business including monitoring what is going where and to be on the lookout for suspicious orders, which they blatantly ignored for the sake of money. They turned a blind eye to what was going on to get rich... and I don't mean just rich, I mean RIIIIIIICCCCCCCHHHHHHHH.

While the addicts bear personal responsibility also for the problem, big pharma and certain segments/individuals of the medical community played a big roll in it as well. You don't seem to understand that.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I think Sam is spot on. My only edit would be: If.....maybe living is not for you!!

 

[The Real SamC]

This shows a complete lack of understanding of the factual allegations and legal theory, both for this specific case and just in general. The case in no way asserts that the drug addicts do not bear responsibility for the epidemic. Like many complex problems, this issue is multifaceted. The body of cases assert the drug companies, pharmacies, and some doctors are ALSO responsible. The getaway driver goes to prison with the guys that robbed the bank.

Big pharma purposefully lied to the medical community about the addictive nature of the opioids so they could make billions upon billions. They also have strict legal responsibilities that come with the ability to be in the pain killer business including monitoring what is going where and to be on the lookout for suspicious orders, which they blatantly ignored for the sake of money. They turned a blind eye to what was going on to get rich... and I don't mean just rich, I mean RIIIIIIICCCCCCCHHHHHHHH.

While the addicts bear personal responsibility also for the problem, big pharma and certain segments/individuals of the medical community played a big roll in it as well. You don't seem to understand that.

Have you even read ANYTHING about the case?

The RINO attorney general and his trial lawyer ambulance chaser buddies actually trying to use a law about "public nuisance" which is actually about things like condemned houses or open sewers, on legal companies, doctors, and pharmacies.

Now think about the last one. Some POS takes a valid prescription to a drug store. Along with his/her you and I pay Medicaid card, of course. The drug store fills the prescription.

And the RINO AG sues it!!!! Wow. So the druggist is supposed to second guess an MD?

Or maybe, just maybe, Medicaid could have, umm, I don't know, kept track of this in the first place and limited such prescriptions. Like most all of the other states did.

The drug addicts are not named in the suit at all. No one is doing anything to them. They are not a party to the matter. The rules about welfare and Medicaid have not even been changed at all. They are NOT being held responsible in any way.

Anyway, as to this "recovery house on every corner" future. Nah. A recovery house needs people that want to recover. The automatic thing for ordinary people, seeing the other side, is to assume that no one would want such a life. This is because you have what these people lack. Call it grit, gumption, character, or just plain ole basic decency.

This is the life these people chose. They like being dope fiends and burdens to society. This is the life style they prefer. Thus Huntington's future under Williams type leadership is not a "recovery house" but just a needle "exchange" (misnomer, no used dope needles needed, they just give out new ones, no questions asked) on every corner, and more and more dope fiends lining the streets.

 

[MStap]

Have you even read ANYTHING about the case?

Clearly WAAAAAYYYYYYY more than you have.

You obviously have a blind hatred toward drug addicts that clogs your view of the situation and what big pharma did to contribute to this (as well as the individual addicts).

The opioid epidemic is one of the biggest public nuisances of our lifetimes. The drug addicts have a large role and they SHARE in the responsibility. It was the combined addicts/pharma/prescribers that put us here and for whatever reason you cannot see that. While there were a small number of just straight up pill mills and bad doctors, the majority were mislead by big pharma.

I agree Medicaid should have tracked this better... as should have the pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies. Like I said, this is multifaceted and there were horrific failures on multiple levels. But for your pharmacy claim:

"In just 10 months, the sixth-largest company in America shipped more than 3 million prescription opioids — nearly 10,000 pills a day on average — to a single pharmacy in a Southern West Virginia town with only 400 residents." (https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/...cle_d229b33b-c55a-5451-ab3f-b545476516d4.html)

10,000 pills a day to one pharmacy in a town of 400 people... yet somehow they had no clue what was going on? If not intentional, this was beyond gross incompetence. All this happened while the drug companies were lying to doctors about how addictive these pills were.

The drug addicts are responsible, and are paying the worst price of all.... being an opioid addict. A lot of them are dead or in prison. I guarantee you if you went to the Sackler family and gave them the choice of giving the billions back or having their children be addicted to opioids they wouldn't be able to get their checkbooks out fast enough. So yea, the addicts aren't named in the suit because drug addicts don't have money. You can't get blood out of a turnip. The lawsuit is about trying to get money to attempt to fix the problem big pharma had a major part in creating.

 

[anon_0314hp8ssprnn]

Yeah the Mall Wars were fought in the 70's. The Huntington Mall opened in 81. In addition to the lawsuit, the potential Mall builders were concerned about having enough space for the Mall and parking in the downtown area as well as paying city B&O taxes.

They found the perfect solution in finding an unincorporated area a few miles east of Huntington. Lots of space no B&O taxes.

They purchased the area and started building. Then the Village of Barboursville annexed the area and started charging B&O taxes.

The future of malls is bleak.

 

[greengeezer]

Malls will have to innovate and give the consumer something he /she can’t get from Amazon. Love that indoor skiing facility.
I saw one innovative idea that I thought of years ago. A mall integrated senior apartments into the retail space. They were in a wing that could be closed off from the main area at closing. The seniors could shop, had access to medical facilities in the same complex , could walk, go to a spa, eat with friends. All indoors without leaving the facility.

 

[The Real SamC]

Clearly WAAAAAYYYYYYY more than you have.

Then, please name the dope fiends named in this case. Basic reading skills will reveal that only legal companies are named. No dope fiends.

Or cite ANY change to the overgenerous policies relative to these POSs.

Hint: There have been none.

You obviously have a blind hatred toward drug addicts that clogs your view of the situation and what big pharma did to contribute to this (as well as the individual addicts).

BIG pharma. Anyone who use "Big" are a public policy reason is disqualified. And, BTW, Purdue really wasn't that big.

The opioid epidemic is one of the biggest public nuisances of our lifetimes.

Nope. Look up what a "public nuisance" is.

an act, condition, or thing that is illegal because it interferes with the rights of the public generally.

This doesn't affect the public generally. An open sewer would, water pollution, air pollution, slaughter houses, etc. are public nuisances. This is just a business that POSs figured out how to game.

The drug addicts have a large role and they SHARE in the responsibility.

They do? Then why are we not holding them responsible in any way?

I agree Medicaid should have tracked this better... as should have the pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies. Like I said, this is multifaceted and there were horrific failures on multiple levels. But for your pharmacy claim:

"In just 10 months, the sixth-largest company in America shipped more than 3 million prescription opioids — nearly 10,000 pills a day on average — to a single pharmacy in a Southern West Virginia town with only 400 residents." (https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/...cle_d229b33b-c55a-5451-ab3f-b545476516d4.html)

Wonder why?

Maybe because WV Medicaid REFUSED to limit such outrages?

The drug addicts are responsible, and are paying the worst price of all.... being an opioid addict

They are?

This is the life they WANT TO HAVE.

Fact is, WV Medicaid screwed up, as usual, and gave free dope to any work resister that wanted it. And now its somehow somebody else's fault, besides the idiot in government and the work resisters.

The RINO AG will get some $$, which will be wasted. Medicaid has not changed one rule.

And people who actually need pain medicine will have their prescriptions refused because the MD and the RPh fear another suit.