Confessions of a recovering apologist......

[W-S HerdFan]

Well, I have been defending Doc for a long time. Good man. He has run a relatively clean program. Has given us some great moments! Unfortunately, has also given us a lot of disappointments. It is time for some new blood! Let my former apologists have some space. We have a really hard time admitting enough is enough. Time for a new HC. Go Herd!!!!

 

[bbneutralfan]

Well posting your opinion on Herd Nation W-S, while valid, won’t get the result you desire and I know you know that. MH does not have the cahones to fire Doc and Doc is not going to resign. Some say they will not go to the games. OK so what does that do for the program other than hurt financially when we need the money. I think MH needs to be put out to pasture and bring in a new AD with no ties to Marshall and let him fire Doc. I am as frustrated as you are W-S and for once I agree with you.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

bb - I hear you. I think it’s harder to support changing the AD. Now you’re evaluating everything to do with athletics across the board. IF the baseball stadium project comes to fruition, that is a big deal for Marshall. Mike has fired HC’s before (see Logan @ ECU), Does he have the guts to do it?
I say Yes. Can he make a good case for axing Doc? Let’s look at our last HC. I took a long time (too long) to convince myself that Snyder needed to go. And that was after 5 seasons of frustration!
Doc’s record is not far behind, but intermingled with good seasons (‘13 ‘14 ‘15) now, bad, ok, and looking bad (‘16 ‘17 ‘18) .....This is the definition of conundrum! My guess is it will take at least another season of fan apathy & on-field performance to justify a change at the top.
MH being fired is up to Pres Gilbert. I doubt that is even on his radar at this point in time. Blame the success of Danny & our awesome b-ball team. Too much overall positives in the AD to justify taking out its leader. Took me too long to answer your suggestion! Needed context.
WS

 

[AllEers6]

bb - I hear you. I think it’s harder to support changing the AD. Now you’re evaluating everything to do with athletics across the board. IF the baseball stadium project comes to fruition, that is a big deal for Marshall. Mike has fired HC’s before (see Logan @ ECU), Does he have the guts to do it?
I say Yes. Can he make a good case for axing Doc? Let’s look at our last HC. I took a long time (too long) to convince myself that Snyder needed to go. And that was after 5 seasons of frustration!
Doc’s record is not far behind, but intermingled with good seasons (‘13 ‘14 ‘15) now, bad, ok, and looking bad (‘16 ‘17 ‘18) .....This is the definition of conundrum! My guess is it will take at least another season of fan apathy & on-field performance to justify a change at the top.
MH being fired is up to Pres Gilbert. I doubt that is even on his radar at this point in time. Blame the success of Danny & our awesome b-ball team. Too much overall positives in the AD to justify taking out its leader. Took me too long to answer your suggestion! Needed context.
WS

Firing Doc may depend on money and does he have a good person in mind to take over?

 

[5150]

Firing Doc may depend on money and does he have a good person in mind to take over?

Rich Rod is on the market

 

[The Real SamC]

Talk of firing Doc is grossly premature and a symptom of the bad case of football anhedonia that many suffer from. You think so little of CUSA that you expect to win it every year easily and consider anything less failure. Strangely many who suffer from this football anhedonia also suffer from basketball delusion that rivals USPAM levels. All for a league where half the teams make zero point zero effort at basketball and the entire play is "get hot in the conference tournament and who knows?"

Methinks a lot of this has to do with the issuer of each coach's diploma, more than anything. In any event, Doc will be here next year and for as long as he feels he wants to be. End of story.

And, of course, who EXACTLY (and no, Dick Rod is not an acceptable answer, neither is some WVIAC or HS coach, nor is BP nor JD) do you think we could get?

But as to MH, really? The building programs alone are enough to make that laughable, leaving aside the saving of the program which was on the verge of colapse after the damage KO did.

 

[Fishn8ntEz]

People are tired of Doc ball. It’s time for new new coach with some personality. Docs good wins over the years ...Louisville, ECU, Maryland. How many games has he won where we were better prepared and out coached the other team? Blew the VT game, WV game, WKU game in 14. Destroyed by Ohio. During the Pruett years it felt like we could play against anyone and have a chance. It’s never been that way during the DOC years.

 

[mlblack16.]

You think so little of CUSA that you expect to win it every year easily and consider anything less failure.

Win the conference every year? No, but more than 1 championship in the time he's been here is not unreasonable, especially considering the level of competition. That's what most rational fans expect.

 

[5150]

Well, I have been defending Doc for a long time. Good man. He has run a relatively clean program. Has given us some great moments! Unfortunately, has also given us a lot of disappointments. It is time for some new blood! Let my former apologists have some space. We have a really hard time admitting enough is enough. Time for a new HC. Go Herd!!!!

IMO, Doc has only had one really bad season and that was 2016. No excuse for that season, and no excuse for filling the roster with problem players, but he did a very good job last year rebounding, and honestly he still has a chance to win 8 games this year which is not a bad season. The one thing I fall back on is fans should have known better then to go after Legg when he really does not call the shots. I do like the new offense with tight ends being used which is in style again right now.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

bb - I hear you. I think it’s harder to support changing the AD. Now you’re evaluating everything to do with athletics across the board. IF the baseball stadium project comes to fruition, that is a big deal for Marshall. Mike has fired HC’s before (see Logan @ ECU), Does he have the guts to do it?
I say Yes. Can he make a good case for axing Doc? Let’s look at our last HC. I took a long time (too long) to convince myself that Snyder needed to go. And that was after 5 seasons of frustration!
Doc’s record is not far behind, but intermingled with good seasons (‘13 ‘14 ‘15) now, bad, ok, and looking bad (‘16 ‘17 ‘18) .....This is the definition of conundrum! My guess is it will take at least another season of fan apathy & on-field performance to justify a change at the top.
MH being fired is up to Pres Gilbert. I doubt that is even on his radar at this point in time. Blame the success of Danny & our awesome b-ball team. Too much overall positives in the AD to justify taking out its leader. Took me too long to answer your suggestion! Needed context.
WS

I would have to agree with your points. Overall Hamrick has done a pretty darn good job. Before he took over football was horrible, basketball was more than an after thought, and the facilities were well below average. Now we actually have expectations for our football program, the MBB not only won a title, but also a tournament game which has never happened, we just got a sweet scoreboard for the CAM, we got a beautiful soccer field, we got an Indoor practice facility that NO ONE ever thought we'd get, and now the longest shot of them all we are getting a baseball field.

Personnel hires may not have been huge home runs, but our sports are a lot better than when he took over. I don't even think it's arguable. If it is then you are just being dishonest.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Rich Rod is on the market

NO! That scumbag should never coach again.

 

[Sash19]

I would have to agree with your points. Overall Hamrick has done a pretty darn good job. Before he took over football was horrible, basketball was more than an after thought, and the facilities were well below average. Now we actually have expectations for our football program, the MBB not only won a title, but also a tournament game which has never happened, we just got a sweet scoreboard for the CAM, we got a beautiful soccer field, we got an Indoor practice facility that NO ONE ever thought we'd get, and now the longest shot of them all we are getting a baseball field.

Personnel hires may not have been huge home runs, but our sports are a lot better than when he took over. I don't even think it's arguable. If it is then you are just being dishonest.

Going off prior experience but wouldnt shock me if IMG Sports bought the scoreboard and gets the advertising revenue off it. Learfield and IMG have done these types of deals for many years. Depending on the ad revenue, it comes down to a win/win for both the school and the company.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

People are tired of Doc ball. It’s time for new new coach with some personality. Docs good wins over the years ...Louisville, ECU, Maryland. How many games has he won where we were better prepared and out coached the other team? Blew the VT game, WV game, WKU game in 14. Destroyed by Ohio. During the Pruett years it felt like we could play against anyone and have a chance. It’s never been that way during the DOC years.

Did we really blow VT? There was some very bad missed calls that even VT fans apologized to some of us after the game for, Roberts had a sure INT squirt through his hands and into the WR in the endzone which was just a fluky play because of the downpour, and Davonte Allen let a sure fire TD go right through his hands. Take away a block punt that was returned and that game is different also. I know people wanted more aggressive play calling in OT, but it was a driving rain and we just watched VT have a mistake because of the ball being hard to handle.

The WVU game sucked and was lost because Tron, who we had not choice but to play, was trying to hard to win the game on his own and fumbled. There was also a blown holding call in the endzone that should have been a safety that would have sealed our win. The biggest issue there was depth. We had guys in the 4th quarter who had played 90+ plays that were chasing down a fresh Noel Devine. Good luck with that.

WKU game was no excuse and it was a team effort on the loss. Cato got baited into 4 INTs by the same darn player.

I know everyone has romanticized the Pruett years, but he had some WTH moments too. Like getting dominated at Bowling Green in 1998 or how about barely beating Wofford at home that same year? How about Pruett's coaching job in the Fort Worth Bowl?

See here's the tell tale sign about Pruett. If Doc played Ohio State tomorrow and the game played out the exact same way that it did when in 2004 he'd be getting killed for not being able to seal the deal. I know that so many say that "man we we could play with anyone back then", but is that true. Pruett's record vs the BCS/P5 wasn't that much better than Doc's. South Carolina only won one game in 1998 and Clemson failed to make a bowl game. Those wins are really no different than our win over Maryland in 2013 or the win over Louisville in 2011.

The issue is that Doc's brand of football is gone stale. His message no longer resonates in that locker room. We saw the same thing happen with Pruett in his last two seasons which were his 8th and 9th seasons.

It may be time just to move on. Doc has done a lot of good since he's been here and we shouldn't forget that, but this is just the nature of the sport. How many coaches do you know not named Nick Saban stay at the top of their curve through 9 seasons? Pete Carrol couldn't at USC. Jim Tressel was tailing off at tOSU. Bob Stoops got the name Sponge Bob Bowl Flops, Tommy Tuberville couldn't keep it going at Auburn, Les Miles couldn't at LSU, Mack Brown at Texas, and we can keep going. There comes a time when it's just time. Baring a miracle where we win out and MTSU loses to both UAB and UTEP then 2018 may be that time.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Going off prior experience but wouldnt shock me if IMG Sports bought the scoreboard and gets the advertising revenue off it. Learfield and IMG have done these types of deals for many years. Depending on the ad revenue, it comes down to a win/win for both the school and the company.

Very safe assumption. That's how we got the scoreboards in the Joan. However. The same deal was brought to Kayo's desk and he said we just couldn't swing it. If anything Hamrick as done a good job making things happen.

 

[Bankerreturns]

IMO, Doc has only had one really bad season and that was 2016. No excuse for that season, and no excuse for filling the roster with problem players, but he did a very good job last year rebounding, and honestly he still has a chance to win 8 games this year which is not a bad season. The one thing I fall back on is fans should have known better then to go after Legg when he really does not call the shots. I do like the new offense with tight ends being used which is in style again right now.

Man, don't know that I can support that opinion. I guess it depends on bad versus really bad. To me, last year was just as bad, or worse, than 2016. The reason was that we proved in the first 7 games that we were good and then just fell off a cliff starting with the FIU game.

Doc was 17-20 before the conference lost nearly all of its best/better teams. Not coincidentally, his record got really good the first three years after realignment. He went 13-4 against the teams that were new to the league. We also didn't play an FCS in 2010 or 2011. So we were 1-0 against FCS in 2010-2012 and 3-0 against them in 2013-2015.

Then you have the fact that we played 2 P5s every year from 2010-2012. We only played 2 from 2013-15 (none in 2014). So 4 less games against P5.

So you add it up, 2 extra FCS games, 4 less P5 games, 17 games against schools like Charlotte, ODU, UTSA, UNT, FAU, FIU instead of UCF, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, etc.

Now you have the current issue. Those schools that were move ups are now getting better and we are starting to lose to them like we used to lose to UCF, Houston, etc. We simply have not gotten any better since Doc has gotten here. We benefitted for a few years from a watered down schedule, but that's about it.

 

[Fishn8ntEz]

Did we really blow VT? There was some very bad missed calls that even VT fans apologized to some of us after the game for, Roberts had a sure INT squirt through his hands and into the WR in the endzone which was just a fluky play because of the downpour, and Davonte Allen let a sure fire TD go right through his hands. Take away a block punt that was returned and that game is different also. I know people wanted more aggressive play calling in OT, but it was a driving rain and we just watched VT have a mistake because of the ball being hard to handle.

The WVU game sucked and was lost because Tron, who we had not choice but to play, was trying to hard to win the game on his own and fumbled. There was also a blown holding call in the endzone that should have been a safety that would have sealed our win. The biggest issue there was depth. We had guys in the 4th quarter who had played 90+ plays that were chasing down a fresh Noel Devine. Good luck with that.

WKU game was no excuse and it was a team effort on the loss. Cato got baited into 4 INTs by the same darn player.

I know everyone has romanticized the Pruett years, but he had some WTH moments too. Like getting dominated at Bowling Green in 1998 or how about barely beating Wofford at home that same year? How about Pruett's coaching job in the Fort Worth Bowl?

See here's the tell tale sign about Pruett. If Doc played Ohio State tomorrow and the game played out the exact same way that it did when in 2004 he'd be getting killed for not being able to seal the deal. I know that so many say that "man we we could play with anyone back then", but is that true. Pruett's record vs the BCS/P5 wasn't that much better than Doc's. South Carolina only won one game in 1998 and Clemson failed to make a bowl game. Those wins are really no different than our win over Maryland in 2013 or the win over Louisville in 2011.

The issue is that Doc's brand of football is gone stale. His message no longer resonates in that locker room. We saw the same thing happen with Pruett in his last two seasons which were his 8th and 9th seasons.

It may be time just to move on. Doc has done a lot of good since he's been here and we shouldn't forget that, but this is just the nature of the sport. How many coaches do you know not named Nick Saban stay at the top of their curve through 9 seasons? Pete Carrol couldn't at USC. Jim Tressel was tailing off at tOSU. Bob Stoops got the name Sponge Bob Bowl Flops, Tommy Tuberville couldn't keep it going at Auburn, Les Miles couldn't at LSU, Mack Brown at Texas, and we can keep going. There comes a time when it's just time. Baring a miracle where we win out and MTSU loses to both UAB and UTEP then 2018 may be that time.[/QUOTE

Whatever you wanna say about VT, but the game was winnable and he coached scared.

Did you not watch the WVu game after the fumble. That horrible prevent defense when we had them 3rd and long....

Pruett May have laid an egg a time or two, but He also had many good wins and some conference champ crowns to back it up. Doc has one in ten years.

 

[AllEers6]

Man, don't know that I can support that opinion. I guess it depends on bad versus really bad. To me, last year was just as bad, or worse, than 2016. The reason was that we proved in the first 7 games that we were good and then just fell off a cliff starting with the FIU game.

Doc was 17-20 before the conference lost nearly all of its best/better teams. Not coincidentally, his record got really good the first three years after realignment. He went 13-4 against the teams that were new to the league. We also didn't play an FCS in 2010 or 2011. So we were 1-0 against FCS in 2010-2012 and 3-0 against them in 2013-2015.

Then you have the fact that we played 2 P5s every year from 2010-2012. We only played 2 from 2013-15 (none in 2014). So 4 less games against P5.

So you add it up, 2 extra FCS games, 4 less P5 games, 17 games against schools like Charlotte, ODU, UTSA, UNT, FAU, FIU instead of UCF, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, etc.

Now you have the current issue. Those schools that were move ups are now getting better and we are starting to lose to them like we used to lose to UCF, Houston, etc. We simply have not gotten any better since Doc has gotten here. We benefitted for a few years from a watered down schedule, but that's about it.

Hear is the problem, Doc is good enough to not fire, but brings no excitement to the program right now, so in the short run he is the coach. Just me, I don't like the fact Doc does not recruit WV kids (I mean bring WV kids in that deserve walkons chances because it promotes the brand in the state).

The problem is solved if Doc brings in a QB that can produce at a high level. Even as good a Litton was you still had to keep him under control and minimize mistakes. Honestly, looking back Chase was one more year in school from really putting it all together then he left. I kind of hate it for him because his bad Soph year put a black mark on him that he never re-covered from at MU. He will go down as one of the most under rated players in MU history.

my point, this team needs a QB and its a real good team

 

[mlblack16.]

Hear is the problem

I agree

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

I agree that the team is a QB away from being a conference-title-contending team.