Doc and Huff

[The Real SamC]

Actually if we win our last two games we play for championships… again.

When all hope is gone, the only emotion that remains is relief.

The progression of delusion starts with the idea that we can be ranked, proceeds to undefeated in conference, then “in control of our own destiny” (which is the stage we are at now), then to “we can still win if this and that the the third happen”, to acceptance.

We were in every game and in a position to win except MTSU.

So only 5-5 (a I-AA: us; and THREE OF THE BOTTOM TEN, 1-9 UConn; 1-9 Southern Miss; 1-9 FIU) MTSU actually blew us out. The rest were “moral victories”. Got it.

 

[raleighherdfan]

MTSU actually blew us out. The rest were “moral victories”. Got it

Being close in a game with an opportunity to win isn't a moral victory. It's a fact.

Another fact: You're a loser sammy.

 

[caliherd]

We were in every game and in a position to win except MTSU. You're the loser sammy.

Raleigh I wish I could like your post a thousand times!!
The ECU and Appy State games we had more than a touchdown lead in the 4th qtr. in both games. The MTSU game we had 700 turnovers and we still only lost by 1 score. The UAB game went down to the wire, we lost by 7 and had the ball inside UAB territory when we had the int. That’s hardly a blow out.

Plus everything you said Sam in your post above is the direct opposite of what you said during the previous coaches term. You argued vehemently with 95% of this board about CUSA as a football conference saying that football is the only sport all the schools “tried” in. You said any of us who had expectations to win were bad fans.

It’s pitiful honestly.

 

[i am herdman]

I don't like the interceptions but the guy is only a sophomore. I think he can get those down his junior year. I like Wells. I respect someone who played ball facing WV high school teams and made the big leap to the level of competition he faces now. It's not like he was in Florida getting prepared for college football taking on all star teams each week. I think he has come pretty far in a short period of time. I don't think he redshirted. He still has room to grow.

He is not really a sophomore. He has been on the team for awhile and started now for two seasons. He is really a junior at this point. He has not been here a short period of time at this point.

I like Wells upside but he needs to work to get better.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

To be fair, the Top 25 ranking was when only 1/2 of the D1 teams were playing football, or just started.

I wonder why Doc was/is never considered for some HC jobs? HMMM?

I've covered this.
Maybe because Doc didn't want to leave, and in coaching/AD circles, that can be very well known without everyone else knowing it, HMMM????
My guess is (frankly, so is yours because nobody really knows) Doc didn't want to leave, he felt he was going to retire here.
Heaven forbid MU actually be a destination job for a HC and not a stepping stone.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I agree that we need to give Huff more time. The reason I said the Cupboard was bare is because we have a QB who leads the nation in interceptions, and most would agree he’s probably the best QB we have on the roster. Our depth at that position is extremely thin, and at the top it’s just not good. It’s average at best.

so, yeah Doc left the QB position in a week spot because of his poor recruiting in the second half of his tenure.

You sort of glossed over Wells' top 10 ranking nationally on passing.
He has problems, nobody's denying that, but isn't nearly as bad as you claim and certainly is a D1 talent.

 

[The Real SamC]

The ECU and Appy State games we had more than a touchdown lead in the 4th qtr. in both games

Yet, we still lost both. To 6-4 ECU and a solid, but unspectacular Appy. Loss and loss.

. The MTSU game we had 700 turnovers and we still only lost by 1 score.

Again, MTSU has beaten us, a I-AA, and THREE OF THE BOTTOM TEN, each 1-9.

The UAB game went down to the wire, we lost by 7 and had the ball inside UAB territory when we had the int. That’s hardly a blow out.

Moral victory, probably. Hooray. We lost to the 2nd place team in the west.

You argued vehemently with 95% of this board about CUSA as a football conference saying that football is the only sport all the schools “tried” in.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit. In BASKETBALL THREADS, I pointed out that, really, CUSA has about 6 teams that can and are trying. Still true. Anybody who knows basketball knows that.

You said any of us who had expectations to win were bad fans.

What are your “expectations” right now? Maybe some more moral victories?

It’s pitiful honestly.

Yes, losing to MTSU, being taken to overtime by ODU, and the rest of this lost season is pitiful.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I've covered this.
Maybe because Doc didn't want to leave, and in coaching/AD circles, that can be very well known without everyone else knowing it, HMMM????
My guess is (frankly, so is yours because nobody really knows) Doc didn't want to leave, he felt he was going to retire here.
Heaven forbid MU actually be a destination job for a HC and not a stepping stone.

Knowing coaches have huge egos, I find it hard to believe anyone would want to stay at Marshall for 11 years and not want to move up to a better job and prove themselves. To me, that wreaks of being too comfortable and getting complacent, which very much seemed to be the case after 2014.

 

[caliherd]

Yet, we still lost both. To 6-4 ECU and a solid, but unspectacular Appy. Loss and loss.

Again, MTSU has beaten us, a I-AA, and THREE OF THE BOTTOM TEN, each 1-9.

Moral victory, probably. Hooray. We lost to the 2nd place team in the west.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit. In BASKETBALL THREADS, I pointed out that, really, CUSA has about 6 teams that can and are trying. Still true. Anybody who knows basketball knows that.

What are your “expectations” right now? Maybe some more moral victories?

Yes, losing to MTSU, being taken to overtime by ODU, and the rest of this lost season is pitiful.

Dude you are freaking nuts certifiable nuts.

Everything you have said this year about football has been the polar opposite of what you said the previous years about football. When we lost to teams in CUSA and we complained, it was you guys are terrible fans you expect us to be undefeated. CUSA is a football first conference ( which is laughable) they all try really hard in football blah blah blah.

Now since the previous coach is gone you have changed your tune. Now suddenly CUSA is awful and we are awful because we are losing to bad teams.

For the record I’m still pissed about all of our losses including UAB. We have squandered a chance to have a great year to having another Doc year. 8-4 or 7-5 or 6 -6 and playing a MAC school in a bowl game on December 15th. Yeehaw

 

[The Real SamC]

CUSA is a football first conference ( which is laughable) they all try really hard in football blah blah blah.

Have you ever really seen a CUSA basketball game?

But, OK, explain to me why ANY CUSA team is in CUSA, and not a more geographically logical conference, except for one thing. Football. 14 teams, coming together to try to play football at the same level, each dragging all their other sports along, each at vastly different levels.

Watch what goes on in some of these places and tell me with a straight face that these teams can be and are at the Marshall level in basketball. There are about six teams that can and do try at basketball. We should grab it by the throat and dominate it.

Now suddenly CUSA is awful and we are awful because we are losing to bad teams.

Nope, losing to bad teams has always been awful. In the past when people complained about beating good teams that this wasn’t enough that I spoke up. As soon as we beat a good team this year, we can have a discussion about what to think about it.

So far, this year, we haven’t beaten any good teams. Haven’t beaten any mediocre teams. Just really bad teams.

For the record I’m still pissed about all of our losses including UAB.

Glad you agree with me. Many on here think the losses are “moral victories” and “not real losses”.

 

[MrHerd05]

Current coach:

Charles Huff.

Take the history to a nostalgia board.

6-4. 5-4 in I-A. Teams we have beaten are 2-7, 5-5 (0-1 in I-A), 4-6 (3-6 in I-A), 4-6 (3-6 in I-A), 1-9 (0-9 in I-A), and 5-5 (4-5 in I-A). We have lost to every team with a pulse.

All of the ho-ha over the last month as we (barely) defeated soul-less, life-less, nothings about "improvement" and "gelling" and "coming together" and "maturing" are just so much ho-ha. We caught a team with a pulse for the first time in five weeks, and we did exactly what we do to every team with a pulse. Lose, and lose badly, in an embarrassing fashion.

Do we have a shot the next two wees? Yep. Neither team is very good either. Just don't delude yourself into thinking what happens shows anything other than the opponent's quality.

Come on dude. This is just ridiculous. At least be consistent.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Yet, we still lost both. To 6-4 ECU and a solid, but unspectacular Appy. Loss and loss.

Again, MTSU has beaten us, a I-AA, and THREE OF THE BOTTOM TEN, each 1-9.

Moral victory, probably. Hooray. We lost to the 2nd place team in the west.


What are your “expectations” right now? Maybe some more moral victories?

Yes, losing to MTSU, being taken to overtime by ODU, and the rest of this lost season is pitiful.

To sum all this up: Sammy's a loser, who claimed 3 weeks ago we were going to be playing NM St, in a shit league because our BOG was blowing it. While also claiming he had no reason to believe we would beat N.T. BRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
Now all he has left is crying over a winning record as "moral victories" despite still contending for a CUSA championship.
This cant be said enough Sammy. You're a loser.

 

[MrHerd05]

Doc left the QB cupboard really bare. We are feeling that now. Our starter isn’t a D1 talent, and our backup is worse. Huff is making the best of it this year. You can say we don’t play with emotion all you want; but the defense played well today and the game was there for the taking. Doc did a lot of damage, it’s going to take time to undo that damage.

Our starting quarterback. Who has thrown for over 3,000 yards this year. Accounted for 20 touchdowns, thrown 12 int's. And who is 13 and 7 in his career is NOT D1 talent?

Hmm

Gotcha

 

[MrHerd05]

The past month or so, Cramsey's play calling is just as boring and conservative as it was with Doc. But I guess some of that is out of necessity, trying to limit Well's mistakes. I'd just like to see them throw the ball beyond 20 yards more than 3-4 times a game.

You would like to see him throw the ball downfield more??? Really?

And the FAU game was some of the best play calling you can see offensively.

 

[The Real SamC]

Now all he has left is crying over a winning record as "moral victories" despite still contending for a CUSA championship.

In other words, you accept mediocrity. 6-4, with the wins (and one of the losses) being to teams ranked by CBS Sports and USA Today in their 1-130 rankings no higher than 110th, is good enough for you.

We are mediocre. We play for mediocrity.

And that is good enough for you.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

In other words, you accept mediocrity. 6-4, with the wins (and one of the losses) being to teams ranked by CBS Sports and USA Today in their 1-130 rankings no higher than 110th, is good enough for you.

We are mediocre. We play for mediocrity.

And that is good enough for you.

Correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t it not long ago you said we expected too much?

 

[raleighherdfan]

In other words, you accept mediocrity. 6-4, with the wins (and one of the losses) being to teams ranked by CBS Sports and USA Today in their 1-130 rankings no higher than 110th, is good enough for you.

We are mediocre. We play for mediocrity.

And that is good enough for you.

Last I checked, the season isn't over yet. 3, potentially 4 games left. We' re still playing for a championship. Being a fan of NM St. you might not know that. This team isn't for you.

You're a loser Sammy.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t it not long ago you said we expected too much?

This opinion stands as his central pillar of truth....back when we had an old, white, head coach.

 

[The Real SamC]

Last I checked, the season isn't over yet. 3, potentially 4 games left. We' re still playing for a championship.

Yes, the stage of delusion we are at has been explained above. We are at “we are in control of our own destiny” stage of delusion. Which if you look at college football right now, or any other sport 3/4ths of the way through the season, this year or any other, the same can be said about half or more of the teams. It doesn’t mean anything. Yes, we COULD win out, and then we COULD beat an undefeated UTSA on the road. It COULD happen.

The teams currently eliminated from CUSA East?

FIU, which has fired its coach. Everybody else can at least tie, and at least 4 “control their own destiny”. And?

The Detroit Lions, currently 0-8-1 COULD win the rest of their games, then run the table in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. You think there is anybody on a Lions’ board dumb enough to claim they are playing for a championship?

You accept medoricty.

In fact, you celebrate it.

 

[raleighherdfan]

We are at “we are in control of our own destiny” stage of delusion.

If we could have only been in control of our destiny last year. The old guy might have been renewed. Yep. Needed someone else to get us into the championship game. Which is why this season is a disappointment to you. New guy has us controlling our own destiny.
Face it. You’re a loser Sammy.

 

[raleighherdfan]

You accept medoricty.

This was you the previous decade. It makes you sad we are playing to make a championship run without the old nimrod doesn’t it?

 

[The Real SamC]

If we could have only been in control of our destiny last year. The old guy might have been renewed. Yep. Needed someone else to get us into the championship game.

Umm, Marshall was in control of its own destiny last year, at this point, and, in fact later in the season, since it, in fact, made the championship game, which the 1 out of, what, 10 chance we have of doing so this year you tout as being significant.

You don’t even know enough about sports to know what “control of your own destiny” actually means.

Stop. You look foolish.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Umm, Marshall was in control of its own destiny last year, at this point, and, in fact later in the season, since it, in fact, made the championship game, which the 1 out of, what, 10 chance we have of doing so this year you tout as being significant.

You don’t even know enough about sports to know what “control of your own destiny” actually means.

Stop. You look foolish.

Wrong. After Marshall was supposed to win the league, they needed a loss late in the season, after crumbling, to get in to the championship game.

Stop. You're a loser sammy.

 

[MrHerd05]

Who did we need a loss from late in the season last year to get into the championship game??

We lost one game. the last game. We had already clinched.

 

[The Real SamC]

Wrong. After Marshall was supposed to win the league,…

1 - Then who did play in the championship game last year?
2 - We were picked to win the division, last year and this year, by most publications.

We, and half the division “control our own destiny”.

That doesn’t REALLY mean much. It certainly doesn’t mean this AWFUL team is in actual contention for a championship. We are 6-4, 5-4 vs. I-A. With wins over AWFUL teams and a loss to one of the bottom 20 teams in the country.

That is mediocre. We adults should be discussing the problems and how to get it fixed. You children can talk about how “there’s still a chance” and other such nonsense.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Who did we need a loss from late in the season last year to get into the championship game??

We lost one game. the last game. We had already clinched.

You know what. You're right. I'm wrong. I guess 3 straight losses preceded by us lying about our inability to man up and play Charlotte had me thinking we backed into the championship game.

 

[MrHerd05]

1 - Then who did play in the championship game last year?
2 - We were picked to win the division, last year and this year, by most publications.

We, and half the division “control our own destiny”.

That doesn’t REALLY mean much. It certainly doesn’t mean this AWFUL team is in actual contention for a championship. We are 6-4, 5-4 vs. I-A. With wins over AWFUL teams and a loss to one of the bottom 20 teams in the country.

That is mediocre. We adults should be discussing the problems and how to get it fixed. You children can talk about how “there’s still a chance” and other such nonsense.

We are 100 percent in contention for a championship. Two teams control their own destiny in the east, us and Western.

We win out, we are in. We start this week as a two touchdown road favorite. We must not suck too bad.

 

[raleighherdfan]

We, and half the division “control our own destiny”.

That doesn’t REALLY mean much.

We were picked to win the division, last year and this year, by most publications.

We adults should be discussing the problems and how to get it fixed.

The only thing needing fixed is your poor outlook. We have a first year head coach playing to win his division and conference without HIS players. That's what gets you upset doesn't it? Most fans were thinking 8-4 as realistic after last year's implosion and that's where we are.

 

[HerdyGurdyMan]

6-4, with the wins (and one of the losses) being to teams ranked by CBS Sports and USA Today in their 1-130 rankings no higher than 110th

CBS Sports rankings:
Marshall # 61
Nebraska #64
Florida #68
Virginia Tech #69
USC #71
Texas #74
Florida St # 76

Not too shabby for a rebuilding year, yet still ranked ahead of many of the elites.

College Football Rankings 2024 - CBS Sports Rankings

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[muthed]

We play for mediocrity.

BTW, the over-under for the team on the sports books was 8 1/2. Which means we underperformed. And we aren’t going to be 8-4 and aren’t going to win the east.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Reality:
Navy is 2-7. It is the worst of the service academies. It looks to lose out.
NC Central is a I-AA HBCU. It is 5-5 against its similar foes.
ODU is 4-6, 3-6 vs. I-A. It is going nowhere.
UNT is 4-6, 3-6 vs. I-A. It is going nowhere.
FIU is 1-9, 0-9 vs, I-A, and will finish 1-11. It has fired its coach, who said, on his way out, that it had 10 year old uniforms and was buying pads and helmets second hand. It has stopped releasing live gate figures, because NO ONE goes to its games.
FAU is 5-5, 4-5 vs. I-A. It is the best team we have beaten. That fact says a lot about a lot.

That’s it. Every team with a pulse. MEDIOCRE 6-4 ECU; Solid, but unspectacular 8-2 Appy; BAD 5-5 MTSU; and MEDIOCRE 7-3 UAB, which is scheduled to play nationally ranked UTSA this weekend, all did the same thing. Grabbed this team by the throat and took names.

Pretending that we were anything besides dominated by the teams that beat us, which is to say, every team that we have played that has any business playing football at this level, is delusion.

Is an “unreal loss” something like a “moral victory”?

But, OK, lets go with that. So this team has lost to two mediocre G5 teams; and then blown two games to BAD teams we should have beaten, making those losses “unreal”. Losing to teams you should beat comes down to heart, preparation, guff, motivation, and/or coaching.

So, pretty much like the last several years under Doc.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Knowing coaches have huge egos, I find it hard to believe anyone would want to stay at Marshall for 11 years and not want to move up to a better job and prove themselves. To me, that wreaks of being too comfortable and getting complacent, which very much seemed to be the case after 2014.

Doc may not have felt he needed to prove much else...he's older than others who want to move up.
You really think if Doc did want to move up, he wouldn't have been hired as a coach for anything, anywhere? Coaches get hired for far less resumes than Doc's.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

The only thing needing fixed is your poor outlook. We have a first year head coach playing to win his division and conference without HIS players. That's what gets you upset doesn't it? Most fans were thinking 8-4 as realistic after last year's implosion and that's where we are.

So why is everyone comparing Huff to Doc if we are as expected under Huff's first year?

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

We are 100 percent in contention for a championship. Two teams control their own destiny in the east, us and Western.

We win out, we are in. We start this week as a two touchdown road favorite. We must not suck too bad.

Its funny you say this, because down to the last 2 weeks under Doc in most seasons, MU was in contention.
But one is to be excited, the other is mediocrity.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

In other words, you accept mediocrity. 6-4, with the wins (and one of the losses) being to teams ranked by CBS Sports and USA Today in their 1-130 rankings no higher than 110th, is good enough for you.

We are mediocre. We play for mediocrity.

And that is good enough for you.

Goddamn, Sam...

At 6-4 when Doc was at the helm, you would tell everyone how bad they were for giving up on the team...esepcially if they were (and in most years they were) in control of their own destiny.

I don't hate Doc as much as everyone else but dude, you're crazy to think MU is mediocre either now or even when it was under Doc.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

So far, this year, we haven’t beaten any good teams. Haven’t beaten any mediocre teams. Just really bad teams.

Well, since you say at 6-4 "the fans are accepting mediocrity", what word describes the teams "mediocre Marshall" beat? Is there a worse word?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Doc may not have felt he needed to prove much else...he's older than others who want to move up.
You really think if Doc did want to move up, he wouldn't have been hired as a coach for anything, anywhere? Coaches get hired for far less resumes than Doc's.

Well he did have to call Pitt to get a minute with their AD.
Why move on when he knew he would never be fired from here. Making 750k in a secure spot is a sweet deal for anyone

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Well, since you say at 6-4 "the fans are accepting mediocrity", what word describes the teams "mediocre Marshall" beat? Is there a worse word?

Yeah, we were expecting too much when Doc was here. Lol!!!!

 

[19MU88]

If you think MTSU was a blow out....you might be really butt hurt that Doc is gone and really really be missing Doc.

 

[raleighherdfan]

So why is everyone comparing Huff to Doc if we are as expected under Huff's first year?

I'm not comparing Huff to Doc. He is a completely different coach, with completely different systems and expectations. Huff just happens to be using Doc's kids, which shouldn't be ignored.

 

[The Real SamC]

CBS Sports rankings:
Marshall # 61

There are 130 teams. 61st is pretty close to 65, which is half of 130. So we are 4 steps above the median.

If that isn’t celebrating mediocrity, I don’t know what is. We Are Average. We Play For Mediocrity.

Nebraska #64

Made a horrid coaching hire. AAC moderate success does not translate into the True Majors. Won’t be good until they fire Frost and get somebody in there with a plan.

WE ARE… better than a dysfunctional team with an idiot coach that was last good before our players were born.

Florida #68

Lost to Kentucky. Which, fun fact, has a football team. But has every chance of winning out and going to the Birmingham Bowl.

WE ARE ….better than a team coached by Dan Mullen.

Virginia Tech #69

Which has, correctly, already fired its idiot coach. Another idiot hire of an AAC moderate success coach, which just doesn’t work.

But, what, exactly has VPI ever done. Our Spamite friends have this envy of VPI, but, really, its just like USPAM. Never actually won a darn thing.

WE ARE…better than an obscure engineering school in the middle of nowhere Appalachia in a state that hates all its citizens who live more than 20 miles from DC.

USC #71

WE ARE…better than a team that has never won honestly in its existance

Texas #74

You really want to go there. The man is a drunk. He needs prayer and help.

Texas has admitted that the failed Big 2, Little 8 scheme didn’t work. It is going to take a good while to flush out the residue of that and get SEC level players in there.

WE ARE…better than the most dysfunctional major program there is.

Florida St # 76

Ran off a good coach. Hired, stop me if you have heard this before, a moderate successful AAC coach. It just doesn’t translate. FSU is in REAL TROUBLE. May not be back.

WE ARE…better than another team that was good before our players were born.

—

The real point? Even a purely mediocre team (which would be 65th, which we are now 4 slots better than) is always going to have 10 to 15 “blue blood” teams that, in that one year, are having a bad season.

So what?

In 10 years, maybe Alabama and Notre Dame and Oklahoma will be having a bad year and we can still be mediocre at 61st and you can post “well look we are better than Alabama, Notre Dame and Oklahoma and they were good way back in 21”.

I don’t celebrate mediocrity.