Herd Knocks???

[raleighherdfan]

What? That's quite a drastic left turn. Marshall doesn't need "employees and staff" to be hired just to manage the outside firm. Marshall has people already in place to handle that. When a company retains outside counsel to help on certain litigation when their in-house counsel is out of their element, does that company go out and hire new employees to "manage the outside firm"? Of course not. They have people in place to do that, as it is just another vendor. The outside firm does all of the heavy lifting.

You haven't seemed to be following the conversation. (not a surprise) Marshall apparently doesn't have the leadership and staff in the AD capable of doing the job fans are currently demanding. Thus, this thread complaining about the quality of marketing/PR exists. The entire premise of this thread was based on, at a bare minimum, "people need hired in the AD to oversee a marketing plan". From that point all my cost basis was established clearly...and accurately. 40K/mo on a line-item budget for marketing/pr expenses (including labor) is a bare minimum cost.

Traditional TV spots (aren't "new") have a higher production cost, but it is not even close to $400k.

Christ. Again, the 400K number I referenced was not the budget for a commercial. It was used in reference to my entire annual budget for a marketing/pr expense strategy to the AD (40kmonth). And yes, a TV ad spot would be a "new" TV ad that Marshall would most likely need produced. As you admitted, the commercial alone cost "you" six figures. That cuts deep into the 400K PR budget I estimated. Again, I'm right.

Your estimate of a minimum of $40k/month would allow for three full-time employees only working on Marshall every single day for a year (which would not even remotely be realistic)

Sure it would. Assuming, as we have discussed, Marshall needs to staff up it's PR/Marketing team in the AD. At the bare minimum 2 competent, qualified people need to be hired internally to help manage the campaign and additional marketing efforts. The external pr firm would assist with creating and providing any level of ongoing execution needed by that team. A PR firm of any level of quality is going to have at least 2 people working on the account and billing regularly to provide the service we see fans crying for now.

Managing social sites alone require constant content updating to maintain their relevance if you want any level of subscription growth. Again, another complaint fans have, consistent updated relevant content. Yes, a billboard is one and done. A social media component to a serious campaign is an ongoing daily endeavor if done creatively.

I never hinted that they were. I have never even heard of them.

Again, you kept throwing out a local reputable "Huntington-Charleston" PR firm. I decided to offer up Charles Ryan. One I worked with on some projects many years ago in Charleston. They aren't cheap the way you've insinuated.

Show me a sports entertainment company (which is what the Marshall AD is) unwilling to devote 40k a month to its total marketing/PR budget and I will show you a company that is not really serious about it's marketing/PR efforts.

 

[Ninegate]

Any examples of the product other SBC schools are using?

 

[Herdguy04]

Reading comprehension is tough for some. I've out layed all the possible costs associated with my estimate. There are more costs associated with a PR Campaign than simply "leading". I spelled them out clearly. Where did I say "this was the only campaign" they would work on? (I didn't). Not sure what that has to do with my estimated costs.

Depending on the level of service and type of campaign, 400-500K for the year is not a crazy estimate for initiating a college sports marketing campaign....or any PR/Marketing campaign for an institution-company the size of Marshall.

Basically...

On one end, MU could hire a marketing firm for a lower cost to do the research and compile a huge list methods to improve marketing MU to the area and fanbase in general...then leave.

Or...

MU could hire the marketing firm to do all that AND implement the plan themselves, which is the additional costs you speak of, right?

The problem is MU seems to have a plan or ideas but nobody is expecting them correctly, right?

I'm legit trying to simplify what you're saying.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Basically...

On one end, MU could hire a marketing firm for a lower cost to do the research and compile a huge list methods to improve marketing MU to the area and fanbase in general...then leave.

Or...

MU could hire the marketing firm to do all that AND implement the plan themselves, which is the additional costs you speak of, right?

The problem is MU seems to have a plan or ideas but nobody is expecting them correctly, right?

I'm legit trying to simplify what you're saying.

Yes. All of this ^^^ is in some variation/combination how it would end up working out. Internal resources (people) need allocated to a campaign effort regardless of whether an external firm will be involved or not. For the purposes of this thread, it was assumed there currently is no internal team designated in the Athletic Dept for the work, fans are saying they want. IMO, at the very least a team of two need hired internally and budgets established for their ongoing work and strategic implementation. Add to that cost, a full-service marketing PR firm expense (which some posters stated they wanted too) rolling out a "360" plan that includes all forms of advertisement and media across multiple platforms. Yes...IMO all of this adds up to my estimated 400k/year initial startup budget line-item to implement.

The 12-15k that was suggested earlier in this thread simply doesn't encapsulate all the costs fans are claiming we need and supposedly don't spend on currently. Hiring a single qualified, experienced PR leader internally (as a bare minimum) for this type of effort alone blows the suggested 12K/month budget number out of the water. Especially if you are wanting any additional new, effective marketing plan to actually get executed.

Additional thoughts: I think something needs done to improve marketing efforts, not just for the AD but across all the organizations that depend on fan and alumni participation and donations. Historically, none of those organizations have worked cohesively together to accomplish those goals. Internal politics? Technically and legally different organizations that are required to remain separate?? Who knows, but for whatever the reason it appears to have held MU back from taking advantage of the fan/alumni base that have a connection to the school and its programs.

 

[Marshall2004]

I have contracted with local and regional marketing firms that were pretty full service in the digital space. They routinely kept up with the campaigns, produced content, and even responded to me via text any time I needed something urgently pushed out to the public. High quality work that was in a field that demanded accuracy. The expense was nowhere remotely near the sort of numbers being thrown around here. Not close. And our content and who we were trying to reach was comparable to what our athletic department would be doing. Rifle has it right on this one.

 

[riflearm2]

You haven't seemed to be following the conversation. (not a surprise) Marshall apparently doesn't have the leadership and staff in the AD capable of doing the job fans are currently demanding. Thus, this thread complaining about the quality of marketing/PR exists. The entire premise of this thread was based on, at a bare minimum, "people need hired in the AD to oversee a marketing plan". From that point all my cost basis was established clearly...and accurately. 40K/mo on a line-item budget for marketing/pr expenses (including labor) is a bare minimum cost.

That's wrong. Marshall has many employees in marketing, branding, and partnerships. Marshall doesn't need "people . . . hired in the AD to oversee a marketing plan." Again, Marshall has plenty of worker bees willing and able to dig ditches in the necessary departments and oversee a plan. What they don't have is a person/people to do the heavy lifting: The competency to develop a full strategic plan; the experience to know how to find, engage, attract, procure/retain (and use pertinent available data to help make those jobs easier and more efficient) donors/fans/partnerships; the expertise to execute the major aspects of this plan.

Marshall has about 15 people working in marketing (including digital), fan engagement, branding, and partnerships/business development. It has plenty of worker bees willing to dig the ditch. It just doesn't have the attributes necessary that I listed above to succeed, hence needing an experienced firm.

Look at the experience, or lack thereof, of what Marshall has:

Marketing & Fan Engagement:
- Associate AD for Fan Engagement: He worked for ticketing at Marshall and then was a branch manager at Enterprise Car Rental. Now, he's an associate AD?
- Director of Marketing & Fan Engagement: He worked in the Marshall ticket office for a year and then was a marketing assistant at UTEP. Now, he's the director of marketing and fan engagement?
- Assistant Director of Marketing & Fan Engagement: No post-grade professional experience other than working at Marshall
- Two other worker bees

Digital Strategy & Brand Management:
- Associate AD for Digital Strategy & Brand Management: He was an assistant basketball coach at Bluefield for three years, then was assistant AD for player development and creative media (quite an unrelated mix) at Bluefield.
- Director of Creative Media
- Director of Graphic Design

Digital Streaming:
- Director of Multimedia: This is her first post-grad job
- Director of Broadcast: Not sure
- Two other worker bees

Strategic Communications
- Multiple people who probably don't have much impact on this discussion
- Associate Director of Digital Content: SID for one year at Alderson-Broaddus and then the Marshall job

Thundering Herd Sports Properties:
- GM has experience
- Coordinator, Partnership Services: First job after graduating from Marshall
- Two business development managers
* Yes, Learfield is a separate company, but their success works hand-in-hand with the Marshall staff's success of bringing in fans/viewership.

As even somebody with your intelligence level should be able to see, Marshall has plenty of people to oversee a plan. What they don't have is the experience, expertise, and competency to do the heavy lifting, which is what a marketing firm develops.

Christ. Again, the 400K number I referenced was not the budget for a commercial. It was used in reference to my entire annual budget for a marketing/pr expense strategy to the AD (40kmonth). And yes, a TV ad spot would be a "new" TV ad that Marshall would most likely need produced. As you admitted, the commercial alone cost "you" six figures. That cuts deep into the 400K PR budget I estimated. Again, I'm right.

Marshall doesn't need a "tv spot." Even if they did, with the staff they have in place, they wouldn't need much help on the production aspect of this. They would need help on the placement, targeting, and best practices of this spot. That's part of the marketing firm's role, and the production cost would be very, very low.

The Super Bowl commercial was six-figures (not counting the media buy) due to utilizing a big choreographer, using a Hollywood-type director, etc. Marshall producing a television spot to be broadcast regionally would need a small fraction of that.

Sure it would. Assuming, as we have discussed, Marshall needs to staff up it's PR/Marketing team in the AD. At the bare minimum 2 competent, qualified people need to be hired internally to help manage the campaign and additional marketing efforts.

You keep making these assumptions without knowing the basics of either Marshall or marketing. Marshall doesn't need to "staff up its (not "it's) PR/Marketing teams in the AD. That's you trying to justify your absurdly stupid estimate. Marshall already has about 15 people managing some sort of campaigns and marketing efforts, as I just showed. They don't need more worker bees. They need professional direction and help from experts. That doesn't require new/more hires. It requires the outside firm to give the guidance, develop the plan, provide the expertise and direction.

Show me a sports entertainment company (which is what the Marshall AD is) unwilling to devote 40k a month to its total marketing/PR budget and I will show you a company that is not really serious about it's marketing/PR efforts.

Again, Marshall already has the staff to do this. What they don't have is the experience or expertise on how to handle it. That's where the firm comes into play.

Show me a sports entertainment company (which is what the Marshall AD is) unwilling to devote 40k a month to its total marketing/PR budget and I will show you a company that is not really serious about it's marketing/PR efforts.

Marshall is already doing that with its current staff. That staff simply doesn't have the experience, expertise, or competency to know how to pull it off. They have the worker bees willing to dig the ditch. They need the engineer and architect to show them what to use to dig it, how to dig it, and where to dig it.

 

[raleighherdfan]

That's wrong. Marshall has many employees in marketing, branding, and partnerships. Marshall doesn't need "people . . . hired in the AD to oversee a marketing plan." Again, Marshall has plenty of worker bees willing and able to dig ditches in the necessary departments and oversee a plan. What they don't have is a person/people to do the heavy lifting: The competency to develop a full strategic plan; the experience to know how to find, engage, attract, procure/retain (and use pertinent available data to help make those jobs easier and more efficient) donors/fans/partnerships; the expertise to execute the major aspects of this plan.

Marshall has about 15 people working in marketing (including digital), fan engagement, branding, and partnerships/business development. It has plenty of worker bees willing to dig the ditch. It just doesn't have the attributes necessary that I listed above to succeed, hence needing an experienced firm.

Look at the experience, or lack thereof, of what Marshall has:

Marketing & Fan Engagement:
- Associate AD for Fan Engagement: He worked for ticketing at Marshall and then was a branch manager at Enterprise Car Rental. Now, he's an associate AD?
- Director of Marketing & Fan Engagement: He worked in the Marshall ticket office for a year and then was a marketing assistant at UTEP. Now, he's the director of marketing and fan engagement?
- Assistant Director of Marketing & Fan Engagement: No post-grade professional experience other than working at Marshall
- Two other worker bees

Digital Strategy & Brand Management:
- Associate AD for Digital Strategy & Brand Management: He was an assistant basketball coach at Bluefield for three years, then was assistant AD for player development and creative media (quite an unrelated mix) at Bluefield.
- Director of Creative Media
- Director of Graphic Design

Digital Streaming:
- Director of Multimedia: This is her first post-grad job
- Director of Broadcast: Not sure
- Two other worker bees

Strategic Communications
- Multiple people who probably don't have much impact on this discussion
- Associate Director of Digital Content: SID for one year at Alderson-Broaddus and then the Marshall job

Thundering Herd Sports Properties:
- GM has experience
- Coordinator, Partnership Services: First job after graduating from Marshall
- Two business development managers
* Yes, Learfield is a separate company, but their success works hand-in-hand with the Marshall staff's success of bringing in fans/viewership.

As even somebody with your intelligence level should be able to see, Marshall has plenty of people to oversee a plan. What they don't have is the experience, expertise, and competency to do the heavy lifting, which is what a marketing firm develops.




Marshall doesn't need a "tv spot." Even if they did, with the staff they have in place, they wouldn't need much help on the production aspect of this. They would need help on the placement, targeting, and best practices of this spot. That's part of the marketing firm's role, and the production cost would be very, very low.

The Super Bowl commercial was six-figures (not counting the media buy) due to utilizing a big choreographer, using a Hollywood-type director, etc. Marshall producing a television spot to be broadcast regionally would need a small fraction of that.



You keep making these assumptions without knowing the basics of either Marshall or marketing. Marshall doesn't need to "staff up its (not "it's) PR/Marketing teams in the AD. That's you trying to justify your absurdly stupid estimate. Marshall already has about 15 people managing some sort of campaigns and marketing efforts, as I just showed. They don't need more worker bees. They need professional direction and help from experts. That doesn't require new/more hires. It requires the outside firm to give the guidance, develop the plan, provide the expertise and direction.


Again, Marshall already has the staff to do this. What they don't have is the experience or expertise on how to handle it. That's where the firm comes into play.



Marshall is already doing that with its current staff. That staff simply doesn't have the experience, expertise, or competency to know how to pull it off. They have the worker bees willing to dig the ditch. They need the engineer and architect to show them what to use to dig it, how to dig it, and where to dig it.

First off. I didn't set the premise that marshall had no staff. I was answering and giving a hypothetical based on the premise others posting in the thread established. The premise being...Marshall had no staff/people needed hired. Reading comprehension.

Second. Based on what you're saying now, my assumptions are even more correct and further explains the absolute incompetence of an organization that has "15 people" on staff to perform the work that any basic marketing/pr team of that size should be able to plan and execute for this kind of business. How much does that "15 person" marketing team cost the University now in salary and benefits alone? Seriously, how much? Simple math for anyone who owns and runs a business of educated professionals would tell you, "15 people" at the very least, embarrassingly minimum is 400K/year budget in salary and benefits. ~400k a year already being spent for marketing/PR before a single piece of marketing is produced. (you know I'm right)

Based on your organizational example you provided, Marshall has 15people devoted to professional level marketing jobs AND apparently have no leader coordinating that team to produce consistent consumable content that the fan base on here think is valuable? Sorry but a team of 15 marketing professionals with additional internal executive leadership of that team should be able to execute what is needed for Marshall. You and others thinking an outside PR/Firm should be placed in charge of managing a campaign for additional $$$$ because a "15 person" team can't, is irresponsible. Total incompetence and speaks directly to one of my earlier comments in this thread: throwing money at a PR campaign without internal leadership/coordination isn't going to make the product consistently better.

By the way, it's not a marketing firms responsibility to "develop" their client's team to perform the basic functions of their jobs. A 15 person marketing team should have the various levels of experience and leadership needed to develop their own people. Including management of a strategic campaign.

We clearly agree on the fact that at the very least Marshall doesn't have the competency to do what is needed, despite our differences in accepting what is already being spent on these efforts and what additional resources are needed to put Marshall where they need to be.