Can you offer a viable option? If we were to nuke both Iraq and Syria to smithereens, there would be radicals back in there before the radiation levels made it inhabitable.
Islam
- Thread starter murox
- Start date
No. Let's continue what we've done and are doing because its working so well.
Some of you libs keep thinking this is a typical "war" scenario. These zealots hate us because we don't believe in the same God they do. It wouldn't matter whether we were "There", "Here", or on planet Mars..................they want you dead because the Koran instructs them to kill you. And if they cant kill you "there" (in their backyard), they will come here and do it. Period. Get your head out of your asses and wake up to this. Next time it wont be a couple planes flying into some buildings.
Russia figured it out faster than we have. Didn't it take them only 10 years to leave and take their 100,000 troops out of Afghanistan?
How about we actually bomb some important targets? We've supposedly had thousands of bombing runs yet the French went out on their first day and bombed their oil tankers. I'm not military strategist nor did I stay in a holiday inn last night but it would make sense to go after their money maker and dry
Up their funding
Up their funding
That is idiotic. Obama could have said go F yourself. We are staying because you bastards will turn this place into a pile of bigger shi* than it is.
It is at this point not whether we should have went to Iraq. That is for history and debate classes at this point.
The issue is the problem at hand. We let these numbnuts carve out a large chunk of land and set up a monetary system and trade route. Now we have a freakin' problem.
I never said to tuck tail and run. I've given my opinion on how to proceed with this. However, for every bomb we drop we grow 100 more of these fvcks.
RU serious? Open your eyes. Bombing has taken out a few targets and some high ranking officials within these jihadist groups but the cost of them compared to the benefit is not worth it. Tactical strikes by Spec Ops, private sector (Black Water) type is the route we need to be looking at. Fight fire with fire, we need to think, act, and look the terrorist part when engaging these people. They don't fear us, and until they do the war on terror is nothing more than the hamster in a wheel war.
And that reason is "GOD". It has very little to do with "bombs", CIA, special ops, etc. Everything to do with GOD.
A few things:
Until the Muslims start taking care of this themselves it will continue.
Until that part of the world decides to join the modern world it will continue.
The world is smaller now and unfortunately these nut jobs are going to attack in the name of their religion. They read one book their entire life and they want to convert or kill us.
Until the Muslims start taking care of this themselves it will continue.
Until that part of the world decides to join the modern world it will continue.
The world is smaller now and unfortunately these nut jobs are going to attack in the name of their religion. They read one book their entire life and they want to convert or kill us.
Thanks old hippy. Do you think Harry S Truman would have dicked around with these wiz bangs?
And topple what? I said leave a reciprocal force in Iraq so this crap would not have festered. Not topple the Iraqi govt. Damn.
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When we left there caveman, Iraq was a sovereign democracy, not a colony. You don't just tell them to do as we say, or else.
I agree that this has to be a part of our strategy. However, they will never "fear" us......This is what they want. They will continue to bait us into coming to Syria in order to wage a ground war......It's what has been prophesized.
al Qaeda will continue to be a problem but it is more about ideology vs a society......The Caliphate must be stopped in Iraq/Syria, it is the number 1 recruiting tool for ISIS.
A ground war is ultimately the only answer (Hopefully not with thousands of US Soldiers). Continuing to bomb the region only creates more recruits. In order to eliminate the actual fighters it will come down to a door to door war. That is, if the US, Russia, France, UK, and moderate middle east countries have the stomach for it.
A ground war will not work long term. The U S pretty much decimated the radicals that were in Iraq before we left in 2011. How's that working only 4 years later? What will be different if we do it again?
Not true......We actually left behind thousands of unemployed, disenfranchised military fighters (Former Iraqi Army) who ultimately became ISIS.
Seriously, you need to read the Graeme Wood article (In The Atlantic) that was linked earlier. It will give you a true perspective of what we are up against. He was on Morning Joe this morning......Our Administration needs to listen to this guy.
Fear is a loose term. If they know we can reach them around every corner they turn that tends to leave weight on their psyche. I know a few tactics and tricks that would make them think twice about what they do.
I would never argue with anyone who has served. (Thank you for your service!!!!)
However, this is a different enemy than we have ever faced and is going to take a totally different strategy.
I disagree, they're no different than any other we've faced. They bleed, they die, just like all other enemies of all countries the world has ever known. They're more arrogant and much more brash than most. But in the end when you deploy the right folks with the right mindset and allow the primal nature of those folks to take control they run and hide like cockroaches. To defeat this group will take brutality of the highest form. Things that should be locked up as classified for years to come.
No job, no money, no life.......They were easily radicalized.
The Atlantic article (posted earlier here) is absolutely fantastic.
Pretty disheartening to see the kind of madness we're up against. Pretty harsh on Islam in general as well...this from what is considered to be the world's leading secular scholar on Islam:
"Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrongat this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. “The only principled ground that the Islamic State’s opponents could take is to say that certain core texts and traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,” Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy."
Pretty disheartening to see the kind of madness we're up against. Pretty harsh on Islam in general as well...this from what is considered to be the world's leading secular scholar on Islam:
"Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrongat this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. “The only principled ground that the Islamic State’s opponents could take is to say that certain core texts and traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,” Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy."
Which is why we shouldn't have gone in the first place. What can we do differently this time that would result in a good outcome? Or are you willing to keep boots on the ground indefinitely? If not, what is the amount of time you are willing to stay there? We've already done 12 years, so are you looking at 15? 20?
Do you know what our grandfather's generation did to the Nazis and Japanese? They were both brutal and better armed and trained with massive standing armies and navies.
My point is the Marine is right, these SOB's can be defeated but it will take ugliness and not calling a lawyer every time you want to drop one of them.
Drones alone are not working. That is part of the point. How hard is that to understand. Hell, even the fly boys will tell you that. They will say we can smart bomb them, drone then, and F16 them until the cows come home, but at some point somebody has to go be brutal to the SOB's to the point they don't want to fight anymore.
except these guys are much more like the viet cong than they are the nazis or japanese.
I can somewhat agree with that, but different terrain, funding, logistics, and so on.
Nobody really likes these ISIS clowns, not even the commies. One similiarity is that we have to involve lawyers and political correctness now, like Vietnam. Instead of just doing what it takes.
As Marine stated, we are going to have to get nasty with these savages and I am talking stuff people don't want to talk about. We did those things in WW2. That was my point.
Quit avoiding answering my questions and tell us what we can do differently to win and get out.
