" . . . some people at times talk about how there should be an asterisk beside this championship game . . . "
John Holliday Reads HerdNation
- Thread starter riflearm2
- Start date
" . . . some people at times talk about how there should be an asterisk beside this championship game . . . "
Just like there should be for every year Bobby Boy was handing his players $100 bills.....I mean mops.
Which is safe to assume plenty.
I know crack heads that make more sense than you.
You discredit Bob Pruett, who's winning percentage is one that John can only dream of achieving, yet build up John after every single one of his failures.
Wow, just wow. John Holliday sure doesn't deserve a gal like you. You're like a woman in an abusive relationship, who can't see the abuse and thinks your hard work and dedication is actually appreciated. John holds access to Shewey over your head, and, in turn, you submit and do whatever it takes to keep it.
We paid the penalty for that. We are paying the penalty for keeping John around now.
Boy do I stand corrected... Oh wait, no I don't... There is absolutely an asterisk on this season. From the national championship on down due to COVID, different numbers of games, totally screwed schedules, etc.
We cancelled a division game so that we couldn't possibly lose said game and thus ended up in the CUSA championship. If that doesn't qualify for an asterisk I don't know what does.
We cancelled a division game so that we couldn't possibly lose said game and thus ended up in the CUSA championship. If that doesn't qualify for an asterisk I don't know what does.
I don't think anybody here invented that notion. I think its pretty apparent even to those who are competing that this isn't a normal year, and that the results of this season likely would have been much different across the board had the pandemic not happened.
I think that was Marshall Reynolds. If Ridpath, Angel, and Moon/West would have done their jobs, we very likely wouldn't have been in that mess.
In reading about the history, I think Reynolds actually started the program while Donnan was here.
This isn't a normal year, so why do certain people keep trying to piss on this program and coach? It isn't and never had been fair to this coach or the kids.
I'm not defending Doc, but to say he wasn't one of our best is wrong. Most love Pruitt and give Donnan credit for bringing in the players that made Pruitt successful early on. To say that their coaching ability was far advanced over Doc doesn't hold water either, let's look at a few things:
- Donnan brought in the money for mops and built a roster that dominated 1AA, not playing by the rules
- Pruitt kept the money for mops going, continued domination of 1AA and early domination of the MAC. 2000 he gets hit with NCAA, could no longer use illegal ways of gaining recruits. Effects in recruiting was immediate. 2003, finished 8-4, no longer kings of the MAC. 2004 finished 6-6, a once proud program now is average in the MAC. Why was this happening? Pruitt was now forced to play by the rules, coupled with less scholarships, took more chances on dead beat recruits and it caught up to him.
- Enter Snyder, the worst coach in modern day, could not recruit a "team" to compete in CUSA, anyone that defends him did not suffer watching that mess.
- enter Doc, playing by the rules, never will be able to appease marshall fans who are stuck on Donnan and Pruitt, who did not play by the rules. So we expect him to be a better coach than them if we expect the same results, with the obvious rule abiding differences. If you think that doesn't affect recruiting, you are lying to yourself.
Those are facts, not something that someone with a bone to pick just thought up to strengthen an argument.
My question to fellow herd fans is this:
Why do you believe a Marshall that is playing by the rules, should have the same results as one that didn't?
I'm not defending Doc, but to say he wasn't one of our best is wrong. Most love Pruitt and give Donnan credit for bringing in the players that made Pruitt successful early on. To say that their coaching ability was far advanced over Doc doesn't hold water either, let's look at a few things:
- Donnan brought in the money for mops and built a roster that dominated 1AA, not playing by the rules
- Pruitt kept the money for mops going, continued domination of 1AA and early domination of the MAC. 2000 he gets hit with NCAA, could no longer use illegal ways of gaining recruits. Effects in recruiting was immediate. 2003, finished 8-4, no longer kings of the MAC. 2004 finished 6-6, a once proud program now is average in the MAC. Why was this happening? Pruitt was now forced to play by the rules, coupled with less scholarships, took more chances on dead beat recruits and it caught up to him.
- Enter Snyder, the worst coach in modern day, could not recruit a "team" to compete in CUSA, anyone that defends him did not suffer watching that mess.
- enter Doc, playing by the rules, never will be able to appease marshall fans who are stuck on Donnan and Pruitt, who did not play by the rules. So we expect him to be a better coach than them if we expect the same results, with the obvious rule abiding differences. If you think that doesn't affect recruiting, you are lying to yourself.
Those are facts, not something that someone with a bone to pick just thought up to strengthen an argument.
My question to fellow herd fans is this:
Why do you believe a Marshall that is playing by the rules, should have the same results as one that didn't?
You can’t spell Pruett correctly, therefore you bring no value to this debate.
If that is all you can respond with, why bother. In the days of autocorrect, who cares.
Good point. I think it's 3 t's: Pruittt?
Snyder played the most difficult schedules by far. Brutal OOC games. Doc has played the easiest schedules. The MAC in the Pruett years was better than the modern day/ latest version of CUSA. Miami, Toledo, BG and Western were all ranked at some point during our years in the league - as I recall.
We'd been doing it for a while when we got caught, and I'm certain the folks in the AD knew it was going on, they just didn't expect somebody like David Ridpath to come along and cash in on outing them. That dude wrote a book, and has made a now almost 20-year career out of blowing the whistle on Marshall, having turned it into a tenured position at Ohio University (who I'm sure loves having him on staff) where he specializes in the essential academic subject of sports ethics.
It's Marshall's shame, but I always like to remind folks that we only got busted because we self-reported. Had we not, we could still be doing it right now, and we'd be foolish to think there aren't plenty of programs out there doing that very thing.
No it isn’t, but if yore* not smart enough to get that right than why should I try to educate someone who can’t be educated
Doc Holliday knowingly and willingly played a known heroin runner. Let’s not act like he is some paragon of virtue whose only reason he has less hardware is his exceedingly high ethical standards.
I still have a hard time blaming this on Ridpath. He was hired to do a job, which was to make sure Marshall was compliant. However, those with more power than him (and the ability to have him lose his job) yielded their swords. He had already reported prior violations at Marshall. When he discovered the more serious violations, he was given a raise and told by Marshall administrators to vehemently defend Marshall to the NCAA instead of being honest. They buttered him up by giving him a substantial raise hoping he wouldn't rat.
There is a reason Marshall agreed to pay him $200K+.
You're clueless, STD boy.
Marshall wasn't "hit with NCAA" until 10 days before 2002, not 2000 like you claimed. Hell, before the NCAA ruled, Marshall didn't even penalize itself until 2001. It lowered the number of non-qualifiers it took. Eventually, Marshall also had their overall scholarship numbers reduced.
Your claim that " . . . could no longer use illegal ways of gaining recruits" is absurd. Marshall's recruiting wasn't reliant on getting recruits by saying they could make $200/day during the summer. Marshall's recruiting advantage was being able to accept 8+ non-qualifiers: kids who could have gone to far better athletic programs but had to come to Marshall since their poor grades didn't allow them many other options.
By reducing those non-qualifiers, it hurts the recruiting. Marshall's 2003 record of 8-4 had far more to do with not having a Heisman candidate QB for the first time in six years and losing non-qualifiers instead of some recruiting advantage of being able to give non-qualifiers $200/day during the summer.
Why don't you compare Snyder's years competing against C-USA with Doc's years competing against the same C-USA before all of the top programs jumped ship. What you'll see is that the coaches performed similarly when facing the same competition.
I always heard Donnan brought it with him since that is what Oklahoma had done while he was an assistant there.
Pretty much all of this.
The only issue I have is, he hasn't hesitated to trash the school at every opportunity since. In essence, he was a part of the problem and demonstrated he could be bought. He could have told the MU brass to go to hell and blew the whistle. That likely would have gotten him a better gig with the NCAA, or a school who could pay him much better.
The whole situation stunk. The MU brass not cooperating and trying to sweep it under the rug was idiotic and just compounded the problem.
I know for a fact Arkansas did the same thing. I worked with an former OL from Arkansas and he didn't hesitate to tell stories about it - players would clock in in the morning, and go back to the dorm, apartment, then go back and clock out at quitting time. No one ever said a word - according to him.
WVU did the same thing during the Major Harris years at Milan. How do you explain Major driving a Monte Carlo SS and a Ninja MC during his years there.
I think he demonstrated the opposite. He had already reported one fairly serious violation. He was not only given a substantial raise as an attempt to silence him, but he was then given another raise in his new position which was $15K more than the previous employee in that same position . . . yet he still ratted.
Let's say he went all in on ratting and throwing Marshall under the bus. He is out of a job. If nothing comes of the allegations, he just threw away his livelihood. I've lived that same situation. Fortunately, I didn't need to keep the job to put food on my table, but I saw what people try to do when somebody stops out of line and calls out their wrongful actions. I can't blame Ridpath for making sure he was able to put food on his table.
I can certainly see that side of it. Although he's been at OU for quite a while. Not sure if that's his dream destination or not, but he must like it there.
What really blows my mind is the powers that be at Marshall actually believing they could hide this and not get slapped for it.
Hell, I think Chad P even mentioned an issue with professors giving the class answers on a test to ensure the athletes in class all passed. Nuts.
I have met him and have talked to him about this situation before. I think he and his family is settled into athens
I'm sure he gets fire in his eyes when speaking of Marshall. He must hate this school.
Bobby is still a better coach than Doc, Coach
Anybody with any sense of objectivity and football prowess, like myself, knows Bobby is by far the better coach and is a legend.
I am the people's moderator and stand behind Coach Pruett. I am going to start handing out warnings to people that besmirch the legendary Coach Pruett. Doc is not in the same league as far as I am concerned.
I am the people's moderator and stand behind Coach Pruett. I am going to start handing out warnings to people that besmirch the legendary Coach Pruett. Doc is not in the same league as far as I am concerned.
Yes yes, I I am am.
There was nothing in my post for you to grammatically call out.
Yes, he is. That is part of his duty on my staff. Got a problem with it?
Don’t forget 2003 was also Miami OH’s year and our rebuilding year. Miami had a Heisman candidate who lasted far longer in the NFL and is far more decorated than either of our Heisman QBs. (Injuries played a part in that for sure, but the statement is true.)
Lets just say we are not on his Christmas card list LOL
Ok rump ranger, or am I misunderstanding your avatar? I'm not the one taking hummers from chicks with herpes.
You know what's truly sad, you spend Soo much time trying to prove you are right, on a message board of all places, that you could have been doing something positive with your life. You seem to be a very intelligent person, maybe you should talk to a counselor and begin using your brain for something other than message board banter. Oh I know, you've driven this car and that car, blah blah blah. Who cares.
Back to the subject at hand, the program was in violation from 96-2000. You are right about loss of scholarships imposed from 2002. The rest of your banter is your opinion, being an asshat doesn't make you right, just in your own mind. Life is good
Imma get my popcorn for this one.
Everybody step aside and get out of the way , I am officially the moderator for this one. Don't need the JV team on this one. This may spill over into tonight's championship game, but I am here for you, herd nation.
