Landon Calls For Doc To Step Down

[riflearm2]

Anyone that says Mike doesn’t like/enjoy basketball is just repeating the propaganda from the bball offices.

So what you’re saying is that Hamrick has a contentious relationship with at least one of his two most important hires. He’s made a bad hire in one of his two biggest hires and has a bad relationship with the other.

Tell us more about this bad blood between Hamrick and Danny, Coach Stowers.

 

[Herdmeister]

So what you’re saying is that Hamrick has a contentious relationship with at least one of his two most important hires. He’s made a bad hire in one of his two biggest hires and has a bad relationship with the other.

Tell us more about this bad blood between Hamrick and Danny, Coach Stowers.

Believe me, its there

 

[Herdmeister]

I’m more concerned in the fact that Landon hasn’t hung a sign that says “gone fishing”

Simple, don't read him. Problem solved

 

[Herdmeister]

This talk of Marshall always being known for football is laughable. The success of the round ballers in the 40’s, 50’s & 60’s is well documented. And hell yes we packed the field house for many seasons! The basketball style Henderson invented is entertaining, and people want to be entertained.

Absolutely. Until the days of Stan Parish and beyond we were pathetic in football. The 13,000 seats in Fairfield gave you plenty of room to stretch out on in games I attended in the 60' and 70's.
On the other hand we sold out the Fieldhouse for about 4 solid years in those same years

 

[WyomingHerdFan]

Absolutely. Until the days of Stan Parish and beyond we were pathetic in football. The 13,000 seats in Fairfield gave you plenty of room to stretch out on in games I attended in the 60' and 70's.
On the other hand we sold out the Fieldhouse for about 4 solid years in those same years

Man you guys are old!

 

[The Real SamC]

This talk of Marshall always being known for football is laughable. The success of the round ballers in the 40’s, 50’s & 60’s is well documented. And hell yes we packed the field house for many seasons! The basketball style Henderson invented is entertaining, and people want to be entertained.

40s-NAIA small college.
50s-early NAIA small college, mid and late, one NCAA loss.
60s-0 NCAAs, lost NIT twice.

As to this packed the field house nonsense, yes. In past times, before most can even remember, people who liked sports went to sports. Fairmont State drew thousands, Logan and Williamson and Beckley high schools played before a thousand. The golden gloves drew a packed house. Because if you were a sportsman, you consumed it via live sports.

Then came ESPN.

MU has less basketball history than Morehead State.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

40s-NAIA small college.
50s-early NAIA small college, mid and late, one NCAA loss.
60s-0 NCAAs, lost NIT twice.

As to this packed the field house nonsense, yes. In past times, before most can even remember, people who liked sports went to sports. Fairmont State drew thousands, Logan and Williamson and Beckley high schools played before a thousand. The golden gloves drew a packed house. Because if you were a sportsman, you consumed it via live sports.

Then came ESPN.

MU has less basketball history than Morehead State.

Such disdain for Marshall sports. Obviously it’s not for you.

 

[Herdmeister]

Man you guys are old!

72

 

[Treadmill MUsic]

The East Division runs through Marshall every year, hands down!

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

The East Division runs through Marshall every year, hands down!

3 out of 11 years. Impressive

 

[Rock98Dog]

The East Division runs through Marshall every year, hands down!

You misspelled “over”.

This was our first East title in six years. How can you say we control it every year? You don’t have to beat Marshall to win the east, see FAU.

 

[Treadmill MUsic]

Let me clarify this for the virtual learners in the back.
2015-Lost East Division at Western Kentucky with Litton. (Devante Allen meltdown)
2017-Lost East Division with Litton to FAU in Boca.
2018–Lost East Division in a home loss vs. Middle Tennessee (Alex Thomson).
2019-Lost East Division in a rainy, wet game in Charlotte (Isaiah Green).

 

[mlblack16.]

Let me clarify this for the virtual learners in the back.
2015-Lost East Division at Western Kentucky with Litton. (Devante Allen meltdown)
2017-Lost East Division with Litton to FAU in Boca.
2018–Lost East Division in a home loss vs. Middle Tennessee (Alex Thomson).
2019-Lost East Division in a rainy, wet game in Charlotte (Isaiah Green).

But your original comment implies we consistently win the East division.

Who the hell (besides you and Perks) cares that we're the perennial division runners up?

When it comes to division and conference championships, if you ain't first, you're last.

 

[redsfan5590]

Your simple mind couldn’t comprehend the office politics of our complex athletic department!

I’m but a simple plebeian.

 

[redsfan5590]

Let me clarify this for the virtual learners in the back.
2015-Lost East Division at Western Kentucky with Litton. (Devante Allen meltdown)
2017-Lost East Division with Litton to FAU in Boca.
2018–Lost East Division in a home loss vs. Middle Tennessee (Alex Thomson).
2019-Lost East Division in a rainy, wet game in Charlotte (Isaiah Green).

This is a pretty damning list for Holiday.

 

[redsfan5590]

dude. Look at the people who post those things. Now think of other things those same people post. Think about what sport they talk about. Who they talk about and where they get it from. Now. Think of who recently was added to the BoG and who was already on it.


it’s not that difficult to put two and two together.

So Hamrick is a great leader for our Athletic program... except for the fact that 50% of his “big” programs have a coach who “hates” him and is trying to get the football coach fired? Basically leading a coup.

but yep you’re right Hamrick is a great leader.

 

[captain jb22]

Let me clarify this for the virtual learners in the back.
2015-Lost East Division at Western Kentucky with Litton. (Devante Allen meltdown)
2017-Lost East Division with Litton to FAU in Boca.
2018–Lost East Division in a home loss vs. Middle Tennessee (Alex Thomson).
2019-Lost East Division in a rainy, wet game in Charlotte (Isaiah Green).

The key word is “lost.” If there was a “won” or “beat” in there, your argument would make more sense.

 

[Treadmill MUsic]

It wasn’t intended for an argument. I simply replied to the gentleman. My point relates to teams in the East Division must beat Marshall. It’s not like we are dormants of the League and a guaranteed victory. Fellas those days of playing for six consecutive as the MAC Conference are gone. Or however many times we made Title appearances, gone fineto.

 

[marshallsig]

So Hamrick is a great leader for our Athletic program... except for the fact that 50% of his “big” programs have a coach who “hates” him and is trying to get the football coach fired? Basically leading a coup.

but yep you’re right Hamrick is a great leader.

Let's use 50% because that sounds more serious than 1. Could that not be as much a reflection on the coach as the athletic director? Good leaders piss people off sometime. If you have ever been in a serious leadership role, you know you can piss off people, if you do not let them get their way.

Look, I am not saying the situation is Danny's fault, I am not saying it is Mike's fault. I am just saying you can be a great leader and have people upset at you. It is hard for us to make a true valued judgement, without knowing both sides.

 

[extragreen]

those days of playing for six consecutive....are gone.

Why??

 

[marshallsig]

Why??

My God, I agree with extra on something.

 

[IslandHerd1]

My God, I agree with extra on something.

Yes, why?

At Marshall we played for championships, now we prefer to have our entire team be 1st Team All Conference while staying in 3rd place in CUSA.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Let me clarify this for the virtual learners in the back.
2015-Lost East Division at Western Kentucky with Litton. (Devante Allen meltdown)
2017-Lost East Division with Litton to FAU in Boca.
2018–Lost East Division in a home loss vs. Middle Tennessee (Alex Thomson).
2019-Lost East Division in a rainy, wet game in Charlotte (Isaiah Green).

Almost isn’t good enough. Many teams could likely say the same thing.

 

[WyomingHerdFan]

72

I only kid. I actually wish I could’ve been a part of the good days at the Field House. I heard that place used to be rocking.

 

[rvntx]

So what you’re saying is that Hamrick has a contentious relationship with at least one of his two most important hires. He’s made a bad hire in one of his two biggest hires and has a bad relationship with the other.

Tell us more about this bad blood between Hamrick and Danny, Coach Stowers.

Who was the bad hire?

 

[Josh Stowers]

The fact that you think the basketball offices are spreading propaganda about the AD tells me everything I need to know.

You think. I know.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Aaron a true fan would support BOTH sports. You sir are not a true fan how dare you speak bad about a Marshall program. Dantoni has just as many championships as doc does in half the time.

Half the time? Dan won the league in year 4 and Doc won in year 5. I wouldn't be throwing Dan's record up against Doc's because it's almost the same situation. The only difference is that Dan is a Son of Marshall so everyone loves him.

Dan has 1 title in 7 seasons, has never beat a team from a power conference, and the 2018-19 season was pretty much a choke job. With the returning players to go from conference title to 6th place was pretty sad. Oh wait we won the CIT.

I get that basketball has struggled for a long time and Dan has took us where no one else went, but at some point we have to expect and demand more from him because he has proven it can be done here.

I like this year's team, but let's not act like Dan is dominating his schedules either. In a vacuum you can say the same things about Dan's results as we do Doc's.

 

[herdfan429]

Half the time? Dan won the league in year 4 and Doc won in year 5. I wouldn't be throwing Dan's record up against Doc's because it's almost the same situation. The only difference is that Dan is a Son of Marshall so everyone loves him.

Dan has 1 title in 7 seasons, has never beat a team from a power conference, and the 2018-19 season was pretty much a choke job. With the returning players to go from conference title to 6th place was pretty sad. Oh wait we won the CIT.

I get that basketball has struggled for a long time and Dan has took us where no one else went, but at some point we have to expect and demand more from him because he has proven it can be done here.

I like this year's team, but let's not act like Dan is dominating his schedules either. In a vacuum you can say the same things about Dan's results as we do Doc's.

Doc has 1 championship Dan has 1. One coach has been here longer than the other. Point being both coaches have 1 championship

 

[Sean Hammond]

Half the time? Dan won the league in year 4 and Doc won in year 5. I wouldn't be throwing Dan's record up against Doc's because it's almost the same situation. The only difference is that Dan is a Son of Marshall so everyone loves him.

Dan has 1 title in 7 seasons, has never beat a team from a power conference, and the 2018-19 season was pretty much a choke job. With the returning players to go from conference title to 6th place was pretty sad. Oh wait we won the CIT.

I get that basketball has struggled for a long time and Dan has took us where no one else went, but at some point we have to expect and demand more from him because he has proven it can be done here.

I like this year's team, but let's not act like Dan is dominating his schedules either. In a vacuum you can say the same things about Dan's results as we do Doc's.

They are very similar. I’ll say that Dan doesn’t have a 2016 season on his resume and hasn’t had some of the off field issues, but he’s dealing with a drastically different #s game, so it’s not really fair to compare that, IMO. But on the field/court, it’s funny how similar they are.

The killer, IMO, is the standard the football program created for itself under Pruett. Basketball has never had a “We Play for Championships” mantra like football. That’s a huge weight to carry for any coach, but using that line is something that gets people more excited about football. It’s a double-edged sword. If you want to plaster #88 & #10 over everything, claim national titles, brag about conference titles, Heisman candidates, draft picks, etc. then you kind of look stupid when you suddenly tell your fan base to stop expecting it. Basketball sells itself on what it currently is and that’s all people expect. Is there a double standard? Hell yes, there is. But the idea that it’s only because people love one coach and hate the other, like it’s personal, needs to stop. There’s a reason why the standards are different. Remove Dan & Doc from it. Whoever the next football coach is will have to carry that “We Play for Championships” weight and the next basketball coach won’t. Fair or not, that’s just the facts.

 

[Herdmeister]

I only kid. I actually wish I could’ve been a part of the good days at the Field House. I heard that place used to be rocking.

It really was. The only time it was rivaled in Marshall history since 1956, were the Huck years in the Cam.

 

[muthed]

In comparing fball and bball, give me a fast breaking, shoot 'em up offense vs a run up the middle, pass to the outside, pass for 4 yds on 3rd & 7, punt offense and I'm good to go. I was there from '65 on so I've seen it all.

 

[TunTavern]

Chuck is 100% correct. John should thank Marshall for giving a career recruiter a decade long head coaching job, then walk away

 

[ohio herd]

I have no problem with people on here wanting Marshall football to be successful. I am not sure we can compare today to the BP era. BP rode into town and inherited a well oiled machine. Add to that, having two Heisman Trophy calabre players on the field helped some Moss needed us after being kicked out of ND and Fl St and we were happy to have him. IMO having Chad ultimately was a bigger get than even Randy. Lighting struck twice and we picked up Leftwitch. That gave us 6 straight years with a NFL QB leading the way. Surrounded by some quality players the course was set. Thus 5 MAC titles and 1 runner up. Then the NCAA penalties set in and we had 2 back to back recruiting classes go belly up , BP leaves after getting us into a more difficult conference ( Yes I am talking C-USA circa mid 2000's not this 2.0 version)and we were in for a challenge.The last 2 years in the MAC we went 14-10 overall. Of course we played some OOC games against several elite programs and showed ourselves well.

The key has been having a star at QB. Our 6 titles since we resumed playing FBS football have all come when we had a stud at QB- Chad, Byron and Cato. I have plenty of confidence that Grant can lead us to a title. He almost did his Freshman year. With or without Doc I think we are going to win a title in the next couple of years. I honestly have mixed feelings here. I get it that we seem to be stuck in good but not good enough land. 11 years is a good run in today's environment as a head coach in D1. Maybe it is time to part with Doc and go after a new coach with fresh vision and fire. My biggest fear is we run Doc off (Nelan 2.0) a guy who keeps us a contender , for another Snyder. If we move on right now we have to get the next hire right or this program could slide into loserville. Going forward I think we can realistically do better than we now are. I'm not sure we will reach the 5 in 6 years run , but we should certainly be able to win this conference as it now stands at least 3 times every decade and be in the hunt the other years.

Love the herd and bleed green and glad to be a fan of a program where we still care.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Chuck is 100% correct. John should thank Marshall for giving a career recruiter a decade long head coaching job, then walk away

TunTavern - I was thinking the same thing. Doc deserves to go out on his own terms, if possible. A retirement is the best outcome in this situation....

 

[HucksHerd]

Anyone that says Mike doesn’t like/enjoy basketball is just repeating the propaganda from the bball offices.

Oh... I see... propaganda only comes out of the basketball office - NEVER, EVER, EVER out of the Shewey Building. I'll claim "basketball guy" and I earned my stripes on that many years ago. That does not mean I am not a fan of the football program as well. I want us to win in both sports... hell - I want Marshall to win if we're playing a ping-pong tournament against a community college for the deaf, dumb, and blind.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Stowers! You are the single biggest propagandist in the history of Marshall sports, so calling people out on that is... in the words of our friend Perkins, you calling others out for spewing propaganda is PITIFULLY PATHETIC!

The fact is, a significant percentage of the fan base has grown tired of Doc Holliday as the football coach, and others of Mike Hamrick as the AD. Personally, I could care less about Hamrick - but the one time that I met him (which was at the NCAA tournament in San Diego), the only thing he could talk about was football. "All this publicity will be great for football recruiting" were his exact words. Never once heard him say how great it was for the kids on the court, the coaches in the locker room, or the fans in the stands. He is a football-centric athletic director and if you can't see that, perhaps you should enroll in the aforementioned community college.

Perk, I'm not sure that being the greatest AD in the history of Marshall is all that much of an accomplishment to be honest. In my 35+ years of being a Marshall fan, that means he outranks Lee Moon (the first moron in the history of collegiate athletics to self-report to grind an axe against Huck), Kayo Marcum, and Lance West (and neither of those two were worth a tinkers damn in my book). Case could be made for Lee Moon - he hired Donnan, Pruett, Dana Altman and Billy Donovan - that's a pretty good run of hires in the major sports. Of course, I did leave Dwight Freeman off of the list for obvious reasons. Just so you know, I'd piss on Lee Moon's shoes if given the opportunity because I hate the SOB for what he did to Coach Huck. So maybe you're right.

What I do know with absolute certainty is that Doc Holliday is not the best football coach in Marshall History. What I also know is that a lot of people really don't ever want to buy a ticket to a game or to turn on the TV and watch a Marshall Football team coached by Doc Holliday ever again. The most important thing that an Athletic Director does is hire and fire coaches in the major sports. A strong argument could be made that Hamrick got strong-armed into hiring Danny... no doubt. Now he is getting ready to get strong-armed into not renewing Doc's contract. If he is that great of an athletic director, why is that the case?

 

[BleedsGreen33]

They are very similar. I’ll say that Dan doesn’t have a 2016 season on his resume and hasn’t had some of the off field issues, but he’s dealing with a drastically different #s game, so it’s not really fair to compare that, IMO. But on the field/court, it’s funny how similar they are.

The killer, IMO, is the standard the football program created for itself under Pruett. Basketball has never had a “We Play for Championships” mantra like football. That’s a huge weight to carry for any coach, but using that line is something that gets people more excited about football. It’s a double-edged sword. If you want to plaster #88 & #10 over everything, claim national titles, brag about conference titles, Heisman candidates, draft picks, etc. then you kind of look stupid when you suddenly tell your fan base to stop expecting it. Basketball sells itself on what it currently is and that’s all people expect. Is there a double standard? Hell yes, there is. But the idea that it’s only because people love one coach and hate the other, like it’s personal, needs to stop. There’s a reason why the standards are different. Remove Dan & Doc from it. Whoever the next football coach is will have to carry that “We Play for Championships” weight and the next basketball coach won’t. Fair or not, that’s just the facts.

I agree with that. All great points. Marshall is it's own enemy with football. Remember when Hamrick and Goebbel came out a couple years ago and said fan expectations were too unrealistic for the times. Well you guys did that to yourselves. You created the bar and now we demand you meet it.

At least my opinion Dan is doing the same thing. He said he wants to make Marshall school, told Bob Huggins he was scared, and took the team to the 2nd round. MBB should now how put up or shut up expectations. MBB has been an afterthought because we have allowed it to be.

CUSA is a good bball league(much better basketball than football), but it's not the ACC and may not even be better than CUSA 2.0. WKU is good, but they're no Memphis.

Also if we're being honest Dan's recruiting is suspect at times. He deserves a lot more criticism for that. We've ignored some good receuits and local ones at that and took a lot of Euro gambles that don't pay off.

I think it's time we start pushing for better results in MBB.

 

[Sean Hammond]

I agree with that. All great points. Marshall is it's own enemy with football. Remember when Hamrick and Goebbel came out a couple years ago and said fan expectations were too unrealistic for the times. Well you guys did that to yourselves. You created the bar and now we demand you meet it.

At least my opinion Dan is doing the same thing. He said he wants to make Marshall school, told Bob Huggins he was scared, and took the team to the 2nd round. MBB should now how put up or shut up expectations. MBB has been an afterthought because we have allowed it to be.

CUSA is a good bball league(much better basketball than football), but it's not the ACC and may not even be better than CUSA 2.0. WKU is good, but they're no Memphis.

Also if we're being honest Dan's recruiting is suspect at times. He deserves a lot more criticism for that. We've ignored some good receuits and local ones at that and took a lot of Euro gambles that don't pay off.

I think it's time we start pushing for better results in MBB.

I agree with everything you have there. But the recruiting thing falls into my earlier point about expectations. When you set the bar high with recruits and spend so much time selling your program on guys who have yet to put on the jersey, just because of the offers they have, you’re setting yourself up for failure. It’s hard to meet that bar. Yulee had to be Vinny Curry to meet expectations. The basketball program hardly ever talks about offers (& there’s often nothing to talk about there anyway) and stars when it comes to recruiting. Then when you pump out an Elmore, Browning, Burks, Penava, West, Williams, George, Kinsey, etc it feels like you’re overachieving. Doc has plenty of guys like that, but we spend more time on Johnny 4* who hardly sees the field and people think Doc has SEC talent who can’t win CUSA. It’s all about expectations and I feel football is often its own worst enemy in that regard.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I agree with everything you have there. But the recruiting thing falls into my earlier point about expectations. When you set the bar high with recruits and spend so much time selling your program on guys who have yet to put on the jersey, just because of the offers they have, you’re setting yourself up for failure. It’s hard to meet that bar. Yulee had to be Vinny Curry to meet expectations. The basketball program hardly ever talks about offers (& there’s often nothing to talk about there anyway) and stars when it comes to recruiting. Then when you pump out an Elmore, Browning, Burks, Penava, West, Williams, George, Kinsey, etc it feels like you’re overachieving. Doc has plenty of guys like that, but we spend more time on Johnny 4* who hardly sees the field and people think Doc has SEC talent who can’t win CUSA. It’s all about expectations and I feel football is often its own worst enemy in that regard.

I'm not even setting a high bar. We could have had Frampton who is 45 minutes down the road and that guard from Wright state. I'm not expecting Dan to be bringing in 4 and 5 star guys, but I do think he could find better guys than a lot of these Euros. Peneva is the only one that really worked out. The rest aren't anything special and could be replaced.

Don't take this personal, but I can't stand the sentiment some fans have of this basketball program that we shouldn't expect good players or championship results.

Dan's overall out of HS recruiting has been underwhelming. If Elmore never decides to leave his first school this team never gets out of the basement.

He could get better players. And for crying out loud get these dudes in the weight room. Aside from West we have seniors that look like their from a Sally Struthers commercial.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

@Sean Hammond if you take Donnie's recruiting and put it with Dan's coaching we'd rule CUSA.

Donnie's last season and Herrion's first season teams were stacked. The issue was that both coaches were bad in game coaches and Herrion fostered a toxic atmosphere.

I could imagine Kane under Dan for four years.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I am an all sports guy who leans a little more to football than b’ball. I will say this about Dan, he recruits good kids who seem to like one another, they haven’t blown up internally that we have seen or heard.