MU-UTEP
- Thread starter goherd73
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I told my older friend that I go to the games with this team could lose in the first game of the tournament or could win it all, there is no method to the madness.
Didn't watch or listen to the game but some stats do stand out.
11 of 22 from 3 pt line
Goran 17 pts and 11 rebounds
Kinsey 11 assists and 7 pts
OAK 12 pts and 0 rebounds
Think of those what you will but I think Kinsey is more effective creating opportunities for others rather than himself and these stats reinforce that.
Didn't watch or listen to the game but some stats do stand out.
11 of 22 from 3 pt line
Goran 17 pts and 11 rebounds
Kinsey 11 assists and 7 pts
OAK 12 pts and 0 rebounds
Think of those what you will but I think Kinsey is more effective creating opportunities for others rather than himself and these stats reinforce that.
I think Kinsey isn’t that good at creating opportunities for people. He’s sloppy with his passes and forces too many shots. He is a good energy boost and can turn the game around with his athleticism…. he’s an all around athlete, but that’s as far as it goes for him…unfortunately.
I agree in principle but how would we really know? It seems as if our offense for the last two years has been focused around him and showcasing his skills, leading to forcing those very shots you mentioned.
Our two best wins of the season are when he sat out and when he had 11 assists to go with 7 points. Quit with the slow, deliberate dribble drive leading to forced shots and cut down on the sloppy passes and focus on moving the ball around quickly and we are a much different team.
MU wins 1 game in a while and you think they can win the tournament?
Could vs should are two completely different words...
2-10 Marshall was tied with 11-1 UNT with 1 minute to play and beat 9-3 UAB. While statistically improbable based on these conference records, Marshall has proven they can play with, and even beat, a couple of the better teams in the conference.
While the “once, from 4th place, we went on an 8 day hot streak, it might happen again some day” EXCUSE has been bandied about here every year, you are really going there THIS year?
The only thing Marshall has proven this year is that it is among the worst teams in the country, with a coach that will not admit that his gimmick offense doesn’t work, and manned with non-DI talent, because his lazy recruiting and delusions about the population/economic status of southern WV have caught up to him. Nothing more.
Woulda coulda shoulda that we only were beaten narrowly by this or that garbage team in this garbage conference are irrelevant.
You are what your record says you are.
Our record says, seeded last, should lose the play-in game. Then the powers that be have to make a decision. Do the right thing, which is fire DD, fire the staff, get in a qualified coach, run off as many of these players as possible. Or admit that we are making a token effort at basketball and really don’t care.
Fire DD.
People yap on here all the time about what’s wrong with college sports. They blame the portal or tv money or the NIL. What’s really wrong with college sports are people with the mindset in the attached post.
it's just a darn shame that in our entire history of basketball no one else has got lucky on an 8 day run like DD did. Thanks to Sam for pointing out the pinnacle of our program's history.
What “mindset” is that? The ability to see? The ability to think logically? Understanding the game of basketball?
Super-fandom where you just root, root, root for the home team, without any reason to believe they actually have a chance other than “that is my team, rah, rah, rah” is what 10 year olds (and WVU fans) do. It is a circle jerk. It is childish.
MU plays in a garbage conference (and is moving to one that, while better, is still a 12 to 15-seeded one-bid league). It should be able, to DOMINATE either league, given the commitment, fan base, and resources we commit to the sport contrasted to the token efforts many make. But, we are at the very bottom of CUSA. The very bottom. The very bottom of a league that no one respects or should respect. Garbage.
That, I suppose, is the difference between you and me. I support MU basketball and want to see it go places it has never been before. I know it can be done. That is why I support firing DD, firing his staff, and running off these no-talents. You want to cheer for whatever they toss out there in green and white. Think, despite reason, that our coach is great because he is our coach. That our team is awesome because it is our team. That thinking got us where we are today.
Fire DD.
I see the same thing you do, kyMUfan, in that we do well when Kinsey gets a lot of assists. More scoring from the bigs and even Marco this most recent game. He must be drawing defenses to him because of his reputation, and then finding open guys who score. And being open for shots can certainly improve the shooting percentage. Perhaps the emphasis on the team has been to funnel the ball to Kinsey whenever possible and let him do his thing. But this tends to stifle the rest of the team. Dan's style of ball requires that all players take shots when available and not to use one player as the preferred shooter.
I'm not sure my ore belongs in this water (thread), but I'll way in anyway. For me, the question isn't what can happen the remainder of this year, it is what DD has the capability to do to correct it next year. For the most part, our 2016 football year is like our 21-22 basketball year. After that debacle, we did return to respectability, but not achieving championships. I foresee DD being able to recreate respectability as well, but not championships (even in the lowly regarded SBC basketball scene). The question for the new AD (or O'Malley if that decision doesn't get made soon) is whether we are going to expect championships or respectability in the basketball program.
Looking at the current standings, a lot of things have to fall into place for us to be able to avoid the play-in game. Most of all, we need to win out. Can we? Highly doubtful. I remember thinking how it must feel for those bottom rung poor bastiches to have to win a game to even make the tourney. Now? Realizing we might be there....
What's this all about? At the end of the day, it's all about winners and losers. Is sports to you simply about dressing in all green, and simply being happy the school fields a team? Some prefer to win. It's why you play the game. Being the worst team in one of the worst conferences should be cause for alarm. But, not here. If you're unhappy with dismal results, you're what's wrong about sports. Some would argue being ecstatic over mediocre results are what's wrong with sports. It's the participation trophy mindset. If this is what it's all about, then Marshall will never be a winner, nor will they ever pack the stands. There's absolutely no way you'll pack a full house to see a bunch of unathletic basketball players attempt to compete on the D1 level. But, if they don't show up to see a bottom feeder program, then I'm guessing they're simply what's wrong with college sports. You don't see that any other place but right here on HN.
Meeech - sorry pal - that sh!t won’t sell. DD has proven that winning brings in the fans to the Cam. You don’t average 5k in that place because we have great concessions! You are correct that winning is all that matters. When we put a winner on the court, Huntington responds. When we put a loser on the court? Huntington responds! Simple as that, & I don’t read into comments on here the same as you. We ALL want the Herd to be a winner!!
WS
A quick glance at the last five home games shows an average of 4,000 fans/game, which isn't awful, considering the results. That's what, about 44% full? Having a team that is consistently making it to the big dance would probably put that number closer to 65-70%, perhaps even more. Of course, 4,000 fans per game may be tapping out the Huntington area, but not sure.
That capability is as near to zero as possible. This is a retired HS phys ed teacher and basketball coach. He has what some people still actually believe is a “system”, which is really just shot a lot of 3s and play individual street ball and take your chance. He is a lazy recruiter, and, BTW, the geography of the SBC should make getting realistic kids that see college sports as a way to pay for college and turning pro in something other than sports easier, as the travel is so much less; and he still believes its 1965 and the coalfields are rich and populated and you can make up a “hillbilly ball” team and do well.
It is nonsense.
Exactly. A serious effort at basketball means firing DD and getting a staff and players in here that are DI level.
And that simply isn’t true in a lot of CUSA. Nor in much of the SBC. Schools and fanbases ONLY interested in football. Basketball team could be 25-4 or 4-25 and nobody associated with the school would really care. Just something they play because its a rule. Football, football, football.
That we care and that we respond is a huge advantage this fan base gives to any basketball coach.
And, it has been squandered so totally that we are behind even those token effort garbage teams.
Nah, some are just happy to root like heck for whatever is tossed out there and tell those of us that understand just how bad things are that we are “bad fans”.
Fire DD.
Sorry Sam but you do not run the Athletic Programs at Marshall. We have an acting Athletic Director, new president, and a Board of Governors that handle these things. I'll take their collective wisdom over yours any day.
You seem to think highly of yourself. Your comments suggest student athletes should only receive scholarships if they are good enough to win championships every year. Simply cannot happen with the current circumstances in college sports. Even the blue bloods of college basketball (Ky, NC, Duke, et al.) cannot do that anymore. Way too much parity and development being accomplished in high schools across the country. I agree college coaches are being paid too much. Athletes are not. That may change and we are seeing signs already. However, the majority of college student athletes are aware they will not play professionally. They are students first. The players on our team are here because they want to be at Marshall. There first priority is getting degrees. They deserve our support and encouragement, not put downs. You say all of us rah, rah, support our team fans are wrong. I am here to tell you that you have it all wrong. Your comments are more suited and appropriate for professional teams and coaches. They are getting paid a great deal of money to entertain and fans can demand results in ways they chose. It would seem you have not had young people playing any sports for a school. That should give us different perspective. And yes, all of us want our kids to be winners. The Marshall Basketball team are all winners. This is the first year any of them have experienced a below .500 record. And they are winners because of who they are as people. Same for the coaches. They care about the players and the program.
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In other words you accept mediocrity. Or failure. Rah, rah, rah.
Personal growth, intellectually, spiritually, and physically, occurs in the context of relationships with others: teachers, coaches, mentors, team mates, friends and family. What any of us say on these message boards has no relationship to that reality. "Mediocrity" and "failure" are terms rarely used by folks in relationship with others. They are hurtful and demoralizing. Development requires us to be patient, kind, encouraging and being very specific with any crticisms. Generalizations are not the least bit helpful. A simple but true maxim to apply: "Praise in public, criticizing in private". It is sad that you, apparently, have not had those kinds of relationships.
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I think Sammie is dissatisfied on a personal level. I don't know what DD has done to him personally, if anything. And I don't know what CH has done to him personally, if anything. I do know that CH had a winning record in his first year, something that the previous football coach did not achieve, yet Sammie can not give any credit. Sammie is just a miserable old curmudgeon who feels the need to diss anybody who does not follow his very own game plan. He'll never be satisfied.
I can give lots of credit.
When the leadership does the right thing and fires DD, and thus signals an institutional commitment to legitimate effort at men’s basketball, I will be the first to praise them.
As to the football stuff, basketball thread, basketball season. Take it elsewhere.
Fire DD.
When the leadership does the right thing and fires DD, and thus signals an institutional commitment to legitimate effort at men’s basketball, I will be the first to praise them.
As to the football stuff, basketball thread, basketball season. Take it elsewhere.
Fire DD.
Same can be said for football...but its just too fun for 50+ yr olds to tear down 18-22 yr old student athletes on message boards.
Not gonna happen.
Marshall has beaten exactly 2 teams in conference this season.
Just 2 teams...they are not on the level you claim they are.
Hmmm, where have we heard that before??? 2-10 Marshall...
And what level do you say I claim they are???
I believe I have consistently said they have been a very bad team this year because they play one-dimensional basketball which makes them easy to defend. When they do things differently, which they have occasionally, they play better which has allowed them to play a few of the better teams in CUSA tough. I will add MTSU to that list. They have also had some horrendous losses.
Try again...
Some knowledgeable basketball fans would call that peaking at the right time...
BTW that same year WVU and eventual NCAA champion Villanova were also peaking at the right time...
Nice stretch BTW...
I'm 75 years old and still capable of learning how to relate more effectively to others! Comments could more meaningful by simply pretending the people we talk about are in earshot proximity and will be able to identify us. This would keep us from personal attacks and require us to be specific with crticisms. Highly doubtful that coaches and players are reading message boards. They are probably hearing about it from family friends and contemporaries. Like I said in an earlier post, what we write in these message boards is rarely close to reality!
Oh, you mean when MU football had a 3-9 record SIX years ago?
I doubt MU is going to repeat that anytime soon, especially now.
"When they do things differently"
You mean all the "changes" Dan kept saying he would make when MU began losing to everyone prior to your post?
"Play a few of the better teams in CUSA tough"
Yeah, sorry toots, they lost all but 2 games...playing a team tough and winning are two different things and MU can't even argue much of either.
Plus, Dan's really not been taking much responsibility for these losses. As it has been said, how does a coach lose so many games with an NBA level talent and a mediocre schedule?
You think anyone's going to wait on Dan to spend another 25 games to figure out his roster needs changes? Dan should have a roster and scheme THAT ALREADY WORKS.
Just be happy the refs didn't hit MU with a technical foul in the last seconds of the game (which they very well could have).
You think if MU peaked now and won CUSA, it would show how good MU is or just how terrible CUSA is?
What are you even talking about?
Again, what are you talking about? When they play one-dimensional they are terrible and lose, often by large margins.
When they do things differently such as not running the offense through Kinsey they play better. What is so hard to understand about that???
So you think Kinsey is an NBA level talent? Would love to hear your talent assessment for this...
About the only thing that you have said that has some rationale behind it.
There is no rotation and guys will disappear for games at a time (think Marko).
I'm not going to address all of your ignorance but I'm thinking MU basketball is not for you.
good to know you (ignorant as you are) think his system (Mikes) is simply chucking 3s. Stick to winning and losing it seems that is about where your bball knowledge stops.
also your comments about cusa and the belt indicate you are ignorant about the level of play in both leagues. Again stick to winning and losing.
you could shorten up your blather and simultaneously increase the aggregate board IQ by just typing fire DD and leaving out the rest. Thanks
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