My challenge to anyone still behind Doc
- Thread starter Bankerreturns
- Start date
Tyson Bagent is a Chad Pennington type kid! Another team in C-USA is going to offer the kid before signing day.
We only offer kids like this the day after they commit to another school.
What he is saying, "would Doc offer Chad Pennington if he was the coach"?
My bet is no
This ranking from 247 (leading recruiting site) had us at 10th in FCS, but they included Coastal Carolina which had already announced going FBS the following year and were no longer considered an FCS during their transition. So, we were 9th in FCS:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?179852-Top-10-FCS-Recruiting-Classes
This ranking, from Hero Sports (the leading FCS authority) had us at #12.
https://saturdayblitz.com/2016/02/04/yale-coastal-carolina-lead-2016-fcs-recruiting-rankings/
Absolutely nothing to offer (other than this pretty face): bad high school stadium off-campus (they had a beautiful new on this year), no recruiting region, expensive as shit, under the full allotment of FCS scholarships, not easy entrance requirements, strict campus rules, mandatory daily chapel, middle of nowhere, small enrollment, no fan support, new to FCS . . .
I'm not sure you understand how it works. These Promise Scholarship kids would still be walk-ons. At the FCS level (and Shepherd - D2), you can offer partial scholarships. So the Promise Scholarship is beneficial there, as a coach can offer a partial and it ends up appearing to be a full-ride with the Promise money added in.
You can't do that at the FBS level. It is either a full-ride or it is nothing. A WV kid who gets a Promise Scholarship doesn't save a coach any type of money. Pretend the Marshall tuition is $8000/semester. Just because a kid gets a $4000 Promise Scholarship per semester, that doesn't mean Marshall can get the with a 50% football scholarship, thus save money for another scholarship. It doesn't work like that.
So how can coaches save "big time that they can use for other schollies" in your scenario?
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I remember there was a time where you said you would never accept a position at similar schools
But, you can build up your walkon program and give Wv kids a chance at the next level. When they walkon its no risk for the coaches, and once you prove yourself and make it to the two deep depth chart you on athletic schalorship.
I have no idea what that means nor what you are even referencing.
I would never accept a position at a similar school to what? Similar to Marshall? Similar to a school I previously worked (which makes no sense)?
And I am sure that many of the kids who this thread is claiming should deserve a scholarship would be allowed to walk-on at Marshall. But that isn't what the claims in this thread are. They are claiming that these kids should be offered by Marshall and that the Promise Scholarship somehow saves money for Marshall for other scholarships. That's not true.
Florida has a similar state program. The two FCS schools in Florida can use that to their advantage by offering kids who receive the state scholarships only partial athletic scholarships which result in the athlete owing no money for school, thus freeing up more money for scholarships. At one FCS, for every four athletes that received the state scholarship, it opened up a full ride. That doesn't work out for FBS schools.
That is NOT what im saying. Im saying Doc can use the Promise program to pull more kids into his program as walkons. The kid comes in with no risk to the coach while the kid proves he belongs. Like the Robinson player I discussed. The only funds he got as a freshman at Shepherd was Promise money, so why not take the same deal and walkon at Marshall.
Also, my point is Doc does not recruit walkons and the staff is hard to get on the phone to even discuss a walkon. For example as mentioned above. Has Brady Ours at Keyser been contacted?
But, we have got away from the real issue. Doc needs to build his roster better so that its not made up of all problem players. One way to do that is via a quality walkon program that develops players then if they make the two deep depth chart give them a full athletic ride. The other is to recruit kids like Chad Pennington. So if you have 100(83 on full rides) kids on your team make make sure 30% to 60% have high character and that sets the tone for your program. Keep in mind the 17 with no athletic money can be part of those good character guys working towards a full ride and may be Promise kids
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We have one of the most successful walk-on programs in the conference. Go back through Doc’s tenure and look at the kids who were/are walk-ons and developed into great players.
Go back to my above post. Its not just about walkons is about building a roster and taking character into consideration. Also if you read this thread the MU coaches are not going a good job of following up on leads. Lastly, as good as the walkon program is its apparent there are still good WV kids that could make an impact if Doc and staff would just follow-up. All the examples are stated!
The most telling question in this thread was would Doc recruit Chad Pennington today?
Look, Doc is having problems with getting fans to the games. Recruit local/WV kids and watch what happens to people coming to games. The basketball program is doing it.
See: Ryan Yurachek, Ryan Bee, Chase Hancock, Tyler King, Levi Brown, Blake Keller, Chris Jackson, Chocolate Wilson, etc.....
Maybe those kids aren’t as good as the walk-ons that other states offer. You’re focusing too hard on the WV kids and not the overall picture.
8 out of a 100, lol. Im still shocked that we are trying to win championships with a kid like Chase Litton. Lots of character issues and lots of trouble in his youth. Then add in the fact he is still average at being a QB. So we have an average QB with serious character issues. That is a recruiting problem.
Gee, I am sure the Marshall staff isn't well aware of the Promise Scholarship and how it can be used to help walk-ons with their college bill. Do you have any more enlightening ideas you'd like to present? Maybe you should tell the DC that if we stop the other team's offense a lot, we have a greater chance of winning? Tell the OC that if we score a lot of points, we have a good chance of winning.
The majority of their time shouldn't be recruiting walk-ons. I am sure they recruit walk-ons, but they are going to spend more of their time invested in the kids they think can help them immediately . . . most of whom are scholarship offers.
The staff is hard to get on the phone? This is FBS football, princess. This isn't your local youth coach. Not only should the staff be hard to get on the phone, but fans shouldn't expect to call and get somebody on staff (a full-time guy, player personnel, etc.) to talk to them. FBS coaches should not be accessible to random fans. That's not how it works nor how it should work.
Im talking about high school football coaches not getting a return phone call.
Let me put it another way. If they are not going to spend time recruiting walkons then then they could at least spend time vetting the kids in the region. They don't even vet the kids to see if they can play at the CUSA level.
Says who? The staff generally dedicates at least one full week to in-state kids. And before you say, “wow, one week,” the number of LEGIT D-1 kids doesn’t require much more than one week. The MSAC and Kanawha Valley possesses the best talent (across the board) year in, year out so they don’t have to travel too far to see most kids.
Legacies NEVER get a look! That’s part of why former FB players don’t participate in reunion events. Doc doesn’t have to take a legacy player, just give him a try out!
There is the problem because you just said the MSAC and Kanawha Valley. There is a ton of talent in other parts of the state so to say Marshall only recruits those areas tells you the problem(is the staff to lazy or do they not have the money to recruit other parts of WV). Tell that to Martinsburg High. Shepherd is putting out one NFL player a year for the last 5 years.
Again, the answer to the question that started this thread is Doc has to lay off of the guys with character issues to build a team.
Because that’s where most of the talent lies, and FYI, Marshall was one of the first schools to offer Tavis Lee of Martinsburg and have already offered 2019 WR Amir Richardson of University as well.
Who has Shepherd put in the NFL five years in a row? I see four guys listed on Pro Reference. Regardless, doesn’t look like any of them are from WV so I’m not sure why were even talking about them.
and guess what? They will never play at Marshall. Its easy to offer the kids everyone else wants but it takes, time, skill, and effort to recruit the kids that can be developed.
I think Tre Sullivan got cut early in the season due to an injury. That may be the one your missing
You do realize that time comes at a premium in the world of recruiting, right? Because it sounds like you clearly don’t understand how recruiting actually works.
Josh, Do me a favor and ask the staff if they have called Brady Ours from Keyser. His dad played at WVU. He would be a perfect high profile kid for Marshall. Have they called the Collier kid from Beckley kid. Also, check out Trey Henry and Jalen Hessen from Martinsburg. The lineman.
These are perfect examples
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That's the problem Josh I fully understand recruiting. With Technology all you have to do is get a lead on a kid and go to Hudl and bam! Then pick up the phone and call his high school coach and invite them down to a football game. that is it! Pruett did it all them time.
Honestly, I don't think young coaches are taught to evaluate talent. I don't think young coaches spend the time understanding how to project kids and how they will develop
And what makes you so sure that Marshall didn’t watch their HUDL’s and decided they weren’t interested?
What else might be left to be said on this thread; I'm betting not much.
Take Tyson Bagent for example, I spoke with a high school coach last night and said he watched every game film of Tyson the last two season in preparing to play Martinsburg, and he said the improvement he has made over the last two years is amazing. So to me Doc and staff did not keep track of Tyson and how he has improved.
Well, if they have why have they not called to at least invite them to walkon? Because trust me these kids are good enough to at least walkon at Marsahll.
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