NIL Money

[CamJoanBaller]

I read somewhere, and have now seen it on Twitter, where WVU is paying the kid from Arizona that is transferring 500K for one year. Which leads me to several thoughts and questions, as I still don't fully understand this NIL BS

1. Is that accurate and is that the world we live in now?
2. Does that money come from donors or is that Big 12 money?
3. Based on the answer to Number 2, since SBC money is not P5 money, are we therefore never going to be able to compete for players since there is obviously a discrepancy of money?

Seems like with NIL that the rich get richer, which is the opposite of what amateur sports should be about.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

CJB: I am no expert, but I believe all schools now have a 503-c organization (Marshall’s is the “Thunder Trust”) where the money is donated & then doled out to the recipients.
So, if we have enough 💵, we can definitely compete, at least at the G5 level imo…….

 

[CamJoanBaller]

CJB: I am no expert, but I believe all schools now have a 503-c organization (Marshall’s is the “Thunder Trust”) where the money is donated & then doled out to the recipients.
So, if we have enough 💵, we can definitely compete, at least at the G5 level imo…….

Well that answers some of what I am asking. Is the kind of money that goes to the NIL coming from donors, or can colleges use the money they make from conference money to pay for those players. Like in the example above, WVU gets over 40M a year from Big 12 money. Can some of that be used for NIL or is it strictly donor? If its the former, then we are pretty screwed long term. If it is just donor, then sometimes all it takes is one or two big wigs to make a move.

 

[RhinoD]

I read somewhere, and have now seen it on Twitter, where WVU is paying the kid from Arizona that is transferring 500K for one year. Which leads me to several thoughts and questions, as I still don't fully understand this NIL BS

1. Is that accurate and is that the world we live in now?
2. Does that money come from donors or is that Big 12 money?
3. Based on the answer to Number 2, since SBC money is not P5 money, are we therefore never going to be able to compete for players since there is obviously a discrepancy of money?

Seems like with NIL that the rich get richer, which is the opposite of what amateur sports should be about.

1. Yes... This is the world we live in. Since the NCAA got sued and lost, regarding a player profiting off their own name, image and likeness, schools (boosters) can pay any amount they want to any player they want to use that player's NIL.

2. NIL money comes from donors/boosters/business sponsors/etc... Most small universities either have an "NIL Funding Pool" or a separate nonprofit organization, where money can be pooled together to be spent on paying athletes.

3. NIL theoretically has nothing to do with what conference you are in... Obviously, P5 schools have more boosters and deeper pockets, so they can spend more. Marshall and most of the Sun Belt are on a pretty level playing field with the rest of the G5.

Essentially, we were never going to be able to compete consistently with the top half of the P5 under the old system and we won't be able to consistently compete with the top half of the P5 with this new system... The biggest difference for fans is that NIL has essentially created free agency every single year. Kids can shop for better NIL deals any time they want and transfer accordingly.

As for WVU, they will run themselves into the ground with NIL trying to keep up with Ohio State, Penn State and other real football programs. NIL will end up being devastating for also-ran P5's in the long run because it won't be sustainable. Donors aren't going to keep giving $500K a year to watch the team struggle to win 6 games.

As for Marshall, we need to do as much as we can to generate NIL dollars to keep our best players in place and stay on par with the top G5 programs. We aren't going to be Ohio State, Bama, LSU, etc and we dont need to try to be.

 

[KellyGreenAlumni]

IIRC - Schools have an amount to give players to live off of if they live on campus vs. if they live off campus. NIL money is given by the donors like the 1837 club to make the living expenses larger. So if donors gave him 500k to come transfers, he uses 500k to pay for his rent, clothes, food ect, plus whatever his normal school allotment is.. typically between 1500-2000 (off-campus)...On campus money is like 200-400/mo which would now be 500k plus the 2k each month. I could be wrong on that, but that's how Coach Huff explained it.

 

[sluggo72]

1. Yes... This is the world we live in. Since the NCAA got sued and lost, regarding a player profiting off their own name, image and likeness, schools (boosters) can pay any amount they want to any player they want to use that player's NIL.

2. NIL money comes from donors/boosters/business sponsors/etc... Most small universities either have an "NIL Funding Pool" or a separate nonprofit organization, where money can be pooled together to be spent on paying athletes.

3. NIL theoretically has nothing to do with what conference you are in... Obviously, P5 schools have more boosters and deeper pockets, so they can spend more. Marshall and most of the Sun Belt are on a pretty level playing field with the rest of the G5.

Essentially, we were never going to be able to compete consistently with the top half of the P5 under the old system and we won't be able to consistently compete with the top half of the P5 with this new system... The biggest difference for fans is that NIL has essentially created free agency every single year. Kids can shop for better NIL deals any time they want and transfer accordingly.

As for WVU, they will run themselves into the ground with NIL trying to keep up with Ohio State, Penn State and other real football programs. NIL will end up being devastating for also-ran P5's in the long run because it won't be sustainable. Donors aren't going to keep giving $500K a year to watch the team struggle to win 6 games.

As for Marshall, we need to do as much as we can to generate NIL dollars to keep our best players in place and stay on par with the top G5 programs. We aren't going to be Ohio State, Bama, LSU, etc and we dont need to try to be.

here's the thing though, you dont have to use the 503c or the 'collective' if you dont want to. You can give any amount to any player on any team you want. The only thing the player has to do for the money is to give you a 'clinic' on how to play whatever. The player though has an app, and this income is reportable for IRS purposes, and the app tracks that plus it helps keep the school informed, but there is nothing they can do about it. The only thing is, if you do it this way, Marshall name, logos etc are trade marked , so you cant you them without their permission. And they way Marhsall says it, you wont get permission without an offering giving to MU.

 

[sluggo72]

IIRC - Schools have an amount to give players to live off of if they live on campus vs. if they live off campus. NIL money is given by the donors like the 1837 club to make the living expenses larger. So if donors gave him 500k to come transfers, he uses 500k to pay for his rent, clothes, food ect, plus whatever his normal school allotment is.. typically between 1500-2000 (off-campus)...On campus money is like 200-400/mo which would now be 500k plus the 2k each month. I could be wrong on that, but that's how Coach Huff explained it.

there is a difference between the NIL money and 'acutal cost of attendence' money. It doesnt matter where you live on or off campus, you can get both. Every scholarship athelete on a team x gets the actual cost of attendence money, on matter if they live on or off campus. There is a list the NCAA follows that shows how much it acutally cost to attend MU vs say WKU. I pretty sure the govenernent uses this this number when figuring financial aid.
NIL money is seperate. Any body on any team can get as much as they want if they can get somebody to give it to them. Some schools are trying to control this allocation so the star QB doesnt get more than the reserve OL.
all you need is 1 well healed booster and let them go!!

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Just wait until some hot-headed young athlete gets an astronomical NIL deal, then mouths off to a coach in practice saying, "I make more money than you, I don't have to listen to you."

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I read somewhere, and have now seen it on Twitter, where WVU is paying the kid from Arizona that is transferring 500K for one year. Which leads me to several thoughts and questions, as I still don't fully understand this NIL BS

1. Is that accurate and is that the world we live in now?
2. Does that money come from donors or is that Big 12 money?
3. Based on the answer to Number 2, since SBC money is not P5 money, are we therefore never going to be able to compete for players since there is obviously a discrepancy of money?

Seems like with NIL that the rich get richer, which is the opposite of what amateur sports should be about.

They also paid 300k to that USC/UGA QB that transferred last season. Daniels was it?

 

[Herd2413]

They also paid 300k to that USC/UGA QB that transferred last season. Daniels was it?

I have reliable info that it was significantly more than that. Including a rental home on Cheat lake in the deal

 

[whf2]

Perhaps most saw the Facebook post from one of the LSU women's basketball players who said she was in no hurry to move to the WNBA because she was making more money while playing for LSU that many players are making in the WNBA. This should tell us all something. This NIL money isn't coming from athletic departments,BUT they are establishing the level of commitment the Trusts will make to a player, and telling players how much money they might be able to get from companies dealing directly with the players. So in a nut shell, the coaches are setting the salary promises to the player, and the promises are being met by the Trusts or independent contracts with companies directly.

 

[sluggo72]

Perhaps most saw the Facebook post from one of the LSU women's basketball players who said she was in no hurry to move to the WNBA because she was making more money while playing for LSU that many players are making in the WNBA. This should tell us all something. This NIL money isn't coming from athletic departments,BUT they are establishing the level of commitment the Trusts will make to a player, and telling players how much money they might be able to get from companies dealing directly with the players. So in a nut shell, the coaches are setting the salary promises to the player, and the promises are being met by the Trusts or independent contracts with companies directly.

not really, though it may appear that way. Any athlete can go out and solicit whatever they can. They can if they want go to Mr Money bags and ask for the money, all mr money bags has to do is give them some 5 minute job and thats that. The athlete is suppose to report this for IRS purposes, Mr Money Bags can write it off as an employee expense.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I have reliable info that it was significantly more than that. Including a rental home on Cheat lake in the deal

I did hear about the house, but heard it was actually his. Also a vehicle may have been in the deal too.

 

[alphasig1053]

If the way things are conducted doesn't change then we will see the top schools that also have a lot of academic prestige dominate the sports landscape.

 

[oldeherd]

Well, we can all certainly hope that before the end of 2024, or when "Big Jim" departs the Governor's Mansion for the very last (or is it "first"?) time, he manages to divert or "redirect" some of the vast and totally out of control flow of funds coming from Washington to States, municipalities, etc., under a plethora of designated relief, emergency, etc., programs into the coffers of the "Thunder Trust"!! After "COVID Relief" monies into a baseball facility, it's certainly "Worth a TRY"!!

 

[CamJoanBaller]

If the way things are conducted doesn't change then we will see the top schools that also have a lot of academic prestige dominate the sports landscape.

I've actually wondered about this. Are some schools that have a ton of money going to start making moves athletically? Such as a Vanderbilt or a Stanford. Maybe they don't want to tarnish their reputations with NIL money stories, but I can see them making a move up the food chain because of their commitment to liberal academia bringing in boatloads of Soros monies.

 

[RhinoD]

I've actually wondered about this. Are some schools that have a ton of money going to start making moves athletically? Such as a Vanderbilt or a Stanford. Maybe they don't want to tarnish their reputations with NIL money stories, but I can see them making a move up the food chain because of their commitment to liberal academia bringing in boatloads of Soros monies.

If Harvard wanted to be a top tier athletic program, it could be (based solely on the amount of donor money they can bring in)... The thing is, they are more interested in being the most prestigious academic university possible and spending a bunch of money on meathead basketball/football players who wouldn't be able to get in to Harvard any other way is a bad look.

The top 2% of academic institutions in the Ivy League, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc... Will always stick to their guns in terms of admission and academic standards because it makes financial sense for them to do so.

If they wanted to toss around bags on cash, the sport where it would make sense for those schools to spend and try to dominate via NIL is basketball (Duke does this). Less kids to pay so more money to throw around, and if you only admit 2-3 meatheads a year and immediately hook them up with easy as possible class schedules and mandatory tutoring, it doesn't kill your academic profile.

 

[CamJoanBaller]

if you only admit 2-3 meatheads a year and immediately hook them up with easy as possible class schedules and mandatory tutoring, it doesn't kill your academic profile.

So why not do that if you are Harvard?

 

[RhinoD]

So why not do that if you are Harvard?

If I were Harvard I would do that... My guess as to why they dont is either - A. They still can't get the top top prospects despite potentially offering more NIL (they dont have any history of putting guys in the NBA). B. Their pride/collective ego tells them to spend their money on academic programs and pursuits and not to worry about extra curricular activities.

 

[GreenDuke]

If I were Harvard I would do that... My guess as to why they dont is either - A. They still can't get the top top prospects despite potentially offering more NIL (they dont have any history of putting guys in the NBA). B. Their pride/collective ego tells them to spend their money on academic programs and pursuits and not to worry about extra curricular activities.

Part B - I’ll admit to laughing when I read this.
Not every school has bastardized NIL, many have stated they will participate as it was intended to be but will not become collection agencies for Big Daddy’s used car lot.

 

[sluggo72]

it is hrad to tell rich guys what to do with their money!!!

MSN

 

[Rock98Dog]

it is hrad to tell rich guys what to do with their money!!!

MSN

That’s just dumb by Syracuse. First, in the spirit of the rule, schools shouldn’t be involved at all. It’s about a player being able to profit off their NIL. If they want to profit, they need to manage the process or hire their own manager to do it for them.

The way it is being done would be like the Lakers negotiating LeBrons shoe deal for him and then Nike paying him. The schools are doing this because they see the opportunity to grift as a middle man.

Second, if I want to hire a star football player to do a commercial my negotiations on price have nothing to do with the school.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

So why not do that if you are Harvard?

Because they likely do...with Lacrosse, or Hockey, or a sport more fitting to the demographic.

 

[CamJoanBaller]

Because they likely do...with Lacrosse, or Hockey, or a sport more fitting to the demographic.

None of those generate money, so those are not at all the same situations. Football and basketball are everything when it comes to money. Harvard, and anyone else, is not throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars to Wellington Johnson for Lacrosse, I assure you.

 

[Rock98Dog]

None of those generate money, so those are not at all the same situations. Football and basketball are everything when it comes to money. Harvard, and anyone else, is not throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars to Wellington Johnson for Lacrosse, I assure you.

Harvard doesn’t need money.

 

[CamJoanBaller]

Harvard doesn’t need money.

I know that, that's my whole point. If they have the money, are they not interested in competing more in basketball and football? Not just Lacrosse and Pickleball? To my original point, these schools with vasts amounts of money could draw in 2-3 big names for the right price and set the tone to compete at a higher level.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Just wait until some hot-headed young athlete gets an astronomical NIL deal, then mouths off to a coach in practice saying, "I make more money than you, I don't have to listen to you."

And then that athlete may find out his NIL contract has a clause where he is no longer paid when he is no longer on the team. And he won't be missed when he leaves, because if a donor can afford to pay a super=star athlete more than a major coach, he can afford to pay the next super-star athlete that will replace him.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

As for WVU, they will run themselves into the ground with NIL trying to keep up with Ohio State, Penn State and other real football programs.

Yep.

NIL will end up being devastating for also-ran P5's in the long run because it won't be sustainable. Donors aren't going to keep giving $500K a year to watch the team struggle to win 6 games.

I disagree. Also-rans will just remain also-rans. $500k a year in NIL isn't going to make Indiana overtake Ohio State lol.

all you need is 1 well healed booster and let them go!!

Cough....Miami...cough.

 

[MichiganHerd]

I disagree. Also-rans will just remain also-rans. $500k a year in NIL isn't going to make Indiana overtake Ohio State lol.

I read where Michigan's football roster is making around $8MM a year in NIL, with 3 or 4 players alone greater than a 1/2 million.

 

[sluggo72]

Yep.

I disagree. Also-rans will just remain also-rans. $500k a year in NIL isn't going to make Indiana overtake Ohio State lol.

Cough....Miami...cough.

yup and what he did, would now all be legal

 

[alphasig1053]

I read where Michigan's football roster is making around $8MM a year in NIL, with 3 or 4 players alone greater than a 1/2 million.

This is the type of program that I was talking about earlier. The resources to compete with any institution, and the tradition to match.

 

[Rock98Dog]

I know that, that's my whole point. If they have the money, are they not interested in competing more in basketball and football? Not just Lacrosse and Pickleball? To my original point, these schools with vasts amounts of money could draw in 2-3 big names for the right price and set the tone to compete at a higher level.

What value does being better in sports bring Harvard above what they already have? They don’t need more money. They don’t need to recruit students, they turn down 97% already. They don’t need anything else to brag about, so why?

In simple terms, if you already have 50 super cars why do you want or need another one for? What value does it really add.

 

[sluggo72]

What value does being better in sports bring Harvard above what they already have? They don’t need more money. They don’t need to recruit students, they turn down 97% already. They don’t need anything else to brag about, so why?

In simple terms, if you already have 50 super cars why do you want or need another one for? What value does it really add.

Yes but if that super car can’t beat Yale you have to get one that does!! So all u need is some Bill Gates like alum to start throwing around some money and the players will come, nobody could outbid them

 

[Ninegate]

I read somewhere, and have now seen it on Twitter, where WVU is paying the kid from Arizona that is transferring 500K for one year. Which leads me to several thoughts and questions, as I still don't fully understand this NIL BS

1. Is that accurate and is that the world we live in now?
2. Does that money come from donors or is that Big 12 money?
3. Based on the answer to Number 2, since SBC money is not P5 money, are we therefore never going to be able to compete for players since there is obviously a discrepancy of money?

Seems like with NIL that the rich get richer, which is the opposite of what amateur sports should be about.

The kid from Arizona plays basketbal.

 

[GreenDuke]

What value does being better in sports bring Harvard above what they already have? They don’t need more money. They don’t need to recruit students, they turn down 97% already. They don’t need anything else to brag about, so why?

In simple terms, if you already have 50 super cars why do you want or need another one for? What value does it really add.

Right, that’s one big reason why they de-emphasized football a century ago. Harvard U likes athletics, they just have it in a proper perspective in relation to what their mission is as an institution.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

And then that athlete may find out his NIL contract has a clause where he is no longer paid when he is no longer on the team. And he won't be missed when he leaves, because if a donor can afford to pay a super=star athlete more than a major coach, he can afford to pay the next super-star athlete that will replace him.

If this scenario happens...no doubt he'll be fine finding a new program.

 

[CamJoanBaller]

The kid from Arizona plays basketball

Yes thats correct

 

[CamJoanBaller]

Yes but if that super car can’t beat Yale you have to get one that does!! So all u need is some Bill Gates like alum to start throwing around some money and the players will come, nobody could outbid them

Exactly- if one Ivy league school starts tossing around money and becomes an annual name in the NCAA tourney, then the others will try to follow suit.

 

[goherdorgohome2]

So if we all started putting all our money into Thunder Trust instead of Big Green it would be a investment with better return?

 

[RhinoD]

So if we all started putting all our money into Thunder Trust instead of Big Green it would be a investment with better return?

Not unless everyone on here is much more well off than we know... NIL is only going to help those schools with the deepest pockets (that ain't us).