Post-season Play this Year...

[Socalherd]

I'm excited that we continue to build our resume for a potential NIT bid - and of course for a shot at an NCAA bid by winning the C-USA tournament. At the same time, in the event we don't land an invite to either of those tournaments, I want to start the campaign for us to play in a CIT, CIB, CBI or another post-season tournament for a couple of reasons.

First, it's a chance to play for a championship - something we haven't won at Marshall in a really long time - and I'm talking regular season, division, or post-season. I was there in '95 as a Grad Assistant when we won the Northern Division Regular Season SoCon Championship in Billy D's first year - and absolutely treasure that ring to this day. It meant something then - and it means even more now. Let's give these kids that same opportunity.

Second, if Elmore keeps scoring at the same pace (22.0 per game) he would finish the regular season with 1,731 career points - with a chance to add more in C-USA tourney. That would put him in range of Skip's all-time scoring record (2574 points). Not that I think he is going to leave for the NBA after the season, but having a legitimate shot the all-time scoring record at Marshall might be reason enough to come back. Heck, that would absolutely assure him a spot in the Hall of Fame and a sure-fire Jersey Retirement Ceremony at our last home game next year (which should happen anyway).

Third, we certainly dont turn down crappy bowl games in football... we ALWAYS play in the who-gives-a-crap bowl and then celebrate the victory. I guarantee we dont make money on those games and probably lose far more than what we could potentially recoup in home games in the pay-for-plays.

The scoring record would be even more of a reality if we had played in one of those tournaments last year. Dont make the mistake of taking games away from kids. Ask James Kelly if he would have liked to of had a chance to keep playing a few years back! Heck - Jon might have had 2-3 more games at the end of last season which could have been another 75-100 points.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

I've never understood why we feel like we're too good to play in the CBI or CIT.

If the players are up for it, I say we do it - especially if we can get a couple of home games.

Does anyone have an idea on which tournament is considered better? The 2017 fields for each were meh. The CBI had teams such as GW, George Mason, Toledo, Rice and Wyoming while the CIT (which has more teams in it) mostly had teams from lower level mid-majors.

 

[Sean Hammond]

I've never understood why we feel like we're too good to play in the CBI or CIT.

If the players are up for it, I say we do it - especially if we can get a couple of home games.

Does anyone have an idea on which tournament is considered better? The 2017 fields for each were meh. The CBI had teams such as GW, George Mason, Toledo, Rice and Wyoming while the CIT (which has more teams in it) mostly had teams from lower level mid-majors.

I can kinda understand it if you’ve got a senior dominated team like we had last year. I can understand not paying to send a bunch of guys to play in 3rd/4th rate tournaments, just to see them leave once it’s over.

However, with us basically having everyone back next season, I agree with us playing in either one. Let’s play some decent teams, hopefully get a few home games out of it, get Williams, West, George, & Watson some more PT, and use it to springboard ourselves into next season. Who are we to thumb our nose toward any postseason inclusion?

 

[LowellGeorge]

First off I believe the conference picks up the majority of the tab for our bowl game appearances and I am pretty sure they don’t pay for the “pay to play” tourneys like the CIT, CBI.

Why do you think his jersey would be retired - especially at the last home game? Can’t see that happening - things have changed considerably since Taft Jersey retirement years ago.
The Mike D number retirement was debated for a long time. Just don’t see it happening.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I can kinda understand it if you’ve got a senior dominated team like we had last year. I can understand not paying to send a bunch of guys to play in 3rd/4th rate tournaments, just to see them leave once it’s over.

However, with us basically having everyone back next season, I agree with us playing in either one. Let’s play some decent teams, hopefully get a few home games out of it, get Williams, West, George, & Watson some more PT, and use it to springboard ourselves into next season. Who are we to thumb our nose toward any postseason inclusion?

Agree. Let's play in one this season get the kids post season prep and game experience. This would be very helpful for next year.

Nothing worse than possibly going the the NIT or NCAA next year with a senior dominated team and laying a big fat egg because the kids weren't used to that experience and had goggle eyes.

 

[HerdFan1971]

I think the fans expectations of the CBI/CTI were soured when (I believe it was Donnie Jones' last year and maybe Herrion's first year) the players simply (appeared anyway) just did not show up to play.

I think that D'Antoni has the mentality of his team adjusted that the CBI/CTI tournaments could be A LOT of fun for fans (especially if we get snubbed on NIT/NCAA).

Frankly, it could provide excellent experience for our younger players and give the Seniors a chance to build the resume for next year's NIT/NCAA bid.

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

I'm excited that we continue to build our resume for a potential NIT bid - and of course for a shot at an NCAA bid by winning the C-USA tournament. At the same time, in the event we don't land an invite to either of those tournaments, I want to start the campaign for us to play in a CIT, CIB, CBI or another post-season tournament for a couple of reasons.

First, it's a chance to play for a championship - something we haven't won at Marshall in a really long time - and I'm talking regular season, division, or post-season. I was there in '95 as a Grad Assistant when we won the Northern Division Regular Season SoCon Championship in Billy D's first year - and absolutely treasure that ring to this day. It meant something then - and it means even more now. Let's give these kids that same opportunity.

Second, if Elmore keeps scoring at the same pace (22.0 per game) he would finish the regular season with 1,731 career points - with a chance to add more in C-USA tourney. That would put him in range of Skip's all-time scoring record (2574 points). Not that I think he is going to leave for the NBA after the season, but having a legitimate shot the all-time scoring record at Marshall might be reason enough to come back. Heck, that would absolutely assure him a spot in the Hall of Fame and a sure-fire Jersey Retirement Ceremony at our last home game next year (which should happen anyway).

Third, we certainly dont turn down crappy bowl games in football... we ALWAYS play in the who-gives-a-crap bowl and then celebrate the victory. I guarantee we dont make money on those games and probably lose far more than what we could potentially recoup in home games in the pay-for-plays.

The scoring record would be even more of a reality if we had played in one of those tournaments last year. Dont make the mistake of taking games away from kids. Ask James Kelly if he would have liked to of had a chance to keep playing a few years back! Heck - Jon might have had 2-3 more games at the end of last season which could have been another 75-100 points.

Socalherd from Cali....scratching my head to determine your identity? I plan to Google Billy's D's staff to find out your name. You still in coaching? We spent 18 days in Palos Verde Estates [Huntingion Beach area] with our younger daughter & her husband & 4 grands. I did not get the chance to visit some HS hoops games...maybe next time?

Pretty area on the Pacific side and Pasadena was really nice....but the LA area is quite expensive.....

Zilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

First off I believe the conference picks up the majority of the tab for our bowl game appearances and I am pretty sure they don’t pay for the “pay to play” tourneys like the CIT, CBI.

Why do you think his jersey would be retired - especially at the last home game? Can’t see that happening - things have changed considerably since Taft Jersey retirement years ago.
The Mike D number retirement was debated for a long time. Just don’t see it happening.

LowellGeorge.....some one correct me if I am wrong. Marshall has a rule [?] that no Jersey is retired unless the player earns his degree. In the case of Mike D...he entered the NBA one class short. Once he earned the Class Credit....the jersey was lifted to the wall.....Don't forget Dandy Dan wore No. 10 too....

Zilla22

 

[W-S HerdFan]

LowellGeorge.....some one correct me if I am wrong. Marshall has a rule [?] that no Jersey is retired unless the player earns his degree. In the case of Mike D...he entered the NBA one class short. Once he earned the Class Credit....the jersey was lifted to the wall.....Don't forget Dandy Dan wore No. 10 too....

Zilla22

.......funny story from the day of the Jersey retirement for Mike D. My brother & I went over to the Cam to watch the b-ball team & when we got in there Mike & Danny were talking to the players. Afterwards we are sitting up there with the D’Antoni clan. Super nice family. In walks Greg White, shaking hands and looking sharp! So, we have these 3 guys sitting near each other, and all 3 wore #10 while playing for the Herd. Greg leans over & says: Wouldn’t have missed this. They are retiring my number today!”
WS

 

[Socalherd]

First off I believe the conference picks up the majority of the tab for our bowl game appearances and I am pretty sure they don’t pay for the “pay to play” tourneys like the CIT, CBI.

Why do you think his jersey would be retired - especially at the last home game? Can’t see that happening - things have changed considerably since Taft Jersey retirement years ago.
The Mike D number retirement was debated for a long time. Just don’t see it happening.

Why WOULDN'T Jon's jersey be retired if he finishes his career as the leading scorer in the history of the school... and one of the top 5 in assists most likely as well. I know that everyone thinks the guys in the 60s and 70s walked on water, but I gotta tell ya... I think we are watching one of the best players in our schools history. God forbid that our program recognize an accomplishment that took place after the invention of the color television!!!!

Oh... yeah... not only might he be our all-time leading scorer - he may surpass Greg White as the all-time leader in assists. He has 523 right now - add at least seven more games this year to the total and throw in another 200 as a senior (he had 207 last year as a sophomore) and he shatters Greg's record of 701.

 

[Socalherd]

Socalherd from Cali....scratching my head to determine your identity? I plan to Google Billy's D's staff to find out your name. You still in coaching? We spent 18 days in Palos Verde Estates [Huntingion Beach area] with our younger daughter & her husband & 4 grands. I did not get the chance to visit some HS hoops games...maybe next time?

Pretty area on the Pacific side and Pasadena was really nice....but the LA area is quite expensive.....

Zilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte

I was the Grad Assistant in charge of the student managers... I was a student manager for Huck, Dana, and Dwight as an under-grad then stayed on with Dwight in 93-94 when he got fired and Billy D gave me a chance to stick around. Saw a lot of hoops in my time between 88-89 and 94-95. Jerry Gargus.

 

[Socalherd]

One other thought... I don't hear anyone talking about climbing up into the rafters to take down the 1947 NAIB Championship Banner because it didnt mean anything and wasnt an NIT or NCAA championship. Heck, we played Wisconsin State, Hamline University, Emporia State, and Mankato State. No one takes anything away from that team. Let's see if Elmore, Peneva, Burks, and company can make as memorable of a run as Tonkovich, James, and Toothman did 70 years ago. Cant imagine Cam Henderson saying... "nah, we dont want to play in that tournament because its not the NIT or NCAA"

 

[GreenDuke]

One other thought... I don't hear anyone talking about climbing up into the rafters to take down the 1947 NAIB Championship Banner because it didnt mean anything and wasnt an NIT or NCAA championship. Heck, we played Wisconsin State, Hamline University, Emporia State, and Mankato State. No one takes anything away from that team. Let's see if Elmore, Peneva, Burks, and company can make as memorable of a run as Tonkovich, James, and Toothman did 70 years ago. Cant imagine Cam Henderson saying... "nah, we dont want to play in that tournament because its not the NIT or NCAA"

I agree with your point.

Marshall wasn’t a member of the NCAA until about ‘53 when they joined the MAC. Marshall was in the OVC from ‘48 until ‘53 but I’m not sure the league was in the NCAA at that time.

 

[Yogiherd]

I have heard if the Herd doesn't make the big dance or the nit and that if the players want to play in the cbi or cit coach DD is all for it. With just number 50 leaving after this year the staff thinks it would be good for the FR(George, West, Williams) and the other underclassmen to get extra games under their belt.

 

[bbneutralfan]

All requests regarding entry into any “pay to play” tournament need to be addressed to Mike Hamrick. Last time I checked Herd Nation only provides a forum for discussion. Send your request to our AD and let him know your wishes.

 

[marshallisqbu]

I don’t mind us playing in the lower tournaments, as long as we don’t consider that a goal or successful year. Our goal should be the NCAA tournament. By the way barring a full undefeated end to the year barring loss in cusa finals, we are not going to the nit

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

.......funny story from the day of the Jersey retirement for Mike D. My brother & I went over to the Cam to watch the b-ball team & when we got in there Mike & Danny were talking to the players. Afterwards we are sitting up there with the D’Antoni clan. Super nice family. In walks Greg White, shaking hands and looking sharp! So, we have these 3 guys sitting near each other, and all 3 wore #10 while playing for the Herd. Greg leans over & says: Wouldn’t have missed this. They are retiring my number today!”
WS

W-S HerdFan....that cracks me up. Greg White can be very entertaining and the Respect & Love he has for the D'Antoni Clan is amazing. Those Mullens folks "stick together like birds and a feather." I can HERD Greg poking at Mike & Danny and saying...."Thanks guys for attending MY CELEBRATION to have No. 10 retired."

HerdZilla22 (Sweeney) in Charlotte

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I have heard if the Herd doesn't make the big dance or the nit and that if the players want to play in the cbi or cit coach DD is all for it. With just number 50 leaving after this year the staff thinks it would be good for the FR(George, West, Williams) and the other underclassmen to get extra games under their belt.

That would be a smart move in my opinion. Not only helps with extra game and practice time, but gets the kids in the post season mindset and looks good to future recruits, even if it isn't the NCAA or NIT. jmo.

 

[Tim Hensley]

I'm with you on this. We need to at least get in a tournament state of mind for the future.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Looks like we got an answer.

 

[Socalherd]

Looks like we got an answer.

View embedded media

Great minds think alike!!!! Great to see that Coach D has changed his tune. I actually think it was more about what Hamrick wanted to foot the bill for the past couple of seasons.

 

[oldeherd]

Great minds think alike!!!! Great to see that Coach D has changed his tune. I actually think it was more about what Hamrick wanted to foot the bill for the past couple of seasons.

Believe if we finish the regular season with 4 or 5 wins and then make another deep run in CUSA tourney but fall short for the championship, there'll be enough fan interest and enthusiasm that we could draw 5000-6000 or so for a tourney game or two, Those numbers would more than satisfy the promoters of those "buy in" tourneys, IMO!!

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Looks like we got an answer.

View embedded media

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Way to go DD! Thinking about the future.

 

[PullmanFinger]

A 5-1 finish to the rest of the season (which is not only feasible but also probably what SHOULD happen) would put us at 22 wins on the season before CUSA starts. Assume we win two games that puts us at 24 wins. That's a lot of wins. Teams get in the NCAA with 17-14 records, albeit way better resumes, but still 24 is a ton of wins.

Am I wrong to say that the NIT is LIKELY if that is the case? I don't know how 32 other teams would have better resume's than that. I can see a team with 24-25 wins from the Southland conference or something like that not being credible, but 24-25 wins from us should be noted for the NIT in my opinion.

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

A 5-1 finish to the rest of the season (which is not only feasible but also probably what SHOULD happen) would put us at 22 wins on the season before CUSA starts. Assume we win two games that puts us at 24 wins. That's a lot of wins. Teams get in the NCAA with 17-14 records, albeit way better resumes, but still 24 is a ton of wins.

Am I wrong to say that the NIT is LIKELY if that is the case? I don't know how 32 other teams would have better resume's than that. I can see a team with 24-25 wins from the Southland conference or something like that not being credible, but 24-25 wins from us should be noted for the NIT in my opinion.

Marshall has ZERO road wins against teams with winning records and the RPI is hindered with two home wins against WVC teams. That may be the difference in whether the Herd gets an NIT bid or not.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Marshall has ZERO road wins against teams with winning records and the RPI is hindered with two home wins against WVC teams. That may be the difference in whether the Herd gets an NIT bid or not.

1. We played one Mountain East (WVC?) team in the regular season.
2. That game is not counted as a win in the RPI formula, therefore does not hurt our RPI.

Other than that your post was spot on.

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

1. We played one Mountain East (WVC?) team in the regular season.
2. That game is not counted as a win in the RPI formula, therefore does not hurt our RPI.

Other than that your post was spot on.

I stand corrected. One MEC game was an exhibition. Concord was listed as an OOC game.

If anything is considered a "good loss", it would be giving XU fits at their place. However, that is countered by the loss at Morehead. That one really hurt.

 

[caliherd]

The reason why the Morehead State loss hurts so bad is because we didn’t have a signature OOC win to counter balance it.

But honestly if we win 24 games and lose a close game in the CUSA tournament finals then I say we will be considered for the NIT, but I still don’t think we would get it.

What would be nice would be to keep it in our hands and win the CUSA tournament andgo to the real basketball post season tournament. There is absolutely no reason we can’t.

 

[bigoherd2]

A 5-1 finish to the rest of the season (which is not only feasible but also probably what SHOULD happen) would put us at 22 wins on the season before CUSA starts.

Not sure I agree with the “SHOULD” comment. North Texas away. MTSU away. UAB away. And a good ODU team at home. 5-1 feasible? Yes. 5-1 likely (or SHOULD)? I don’t think so...

 

[bbneutralfan]

Pullman IF we had beaten Xavier and Illinois then an NIT bid would have been possible. We can win out regular season lose out in tournament and still no NIT. Got to find some better teams to play at home. Toledo helped a little. Akron and Ohio no help.

 

[oldeherd]

I stand corrected. One MEC game was an exhibition. Concord was listed as an OOC game.

If anything is considered a "good loss", it would be giving XU fits at their place. However, that is countered by the loss at Morehead. That one really hurt.

Wrong again, eerfan. MU has a road win against Toledo, MAC East leader who has a winning record!!

 

[PullmanFinger]

Pullman IF we had beaten Xavier and Illinois then an NIT bid would have been possible. We can win out regular season lose out in tournament and still no NIT. Got to find some better teams to play at home. Toledo helped a little. Akron and Ohio no help.

Sucks because ohio and Akron are usually good for that purpose, they just both blow this year

 

[marshallisqbu]

A 5-1 finish to the rest of the season (which is not only feasible but also probably what SHOULD happen) would put us at 22 wins on the season before CUSA starts. Assume we win two games that puts us at 24 wins. That's a lot of wins. Teams get in the NCAA with 17-14 records, albeit way better resumes, but still 24 is a ton of wins.

Am I wrong to say that the NIT is LIKELY if that is the case? I don't know how 32 other teams would have better resume's than that. I can see a team with 24-25 wins from the Southland conference or something like that not being credible, but 24-25 wins from us should be noted for the NIT in my opinion.

Still wouldn’t make the nit

 

[RhinoD]

A 5-1 finish to the rest of the season (which is not only feasible but also probably what SHOULD happen) would put us at 22 wins on the season before CUSA starts. Assume we win two games that puts us at 24 wins. That's a lot of wins. Teams get in the NCAA with 17-14 records, albeit way better resumes, but still 24 is a ton of wins.

Am I wrong to say that the NIT is LIKELY if that is the case? I don't know how 32 other teams would have better resume's than that. I can see a team with 24-25 wins from the Southland conference or something like that not being credible, but 24-25 wins from us should be noted for the NIT in my opinion.

24 wins would put us in the conversation for the NIT, but it would be unlikely... Remember the NIT has to take any league champ that loses their conference tournament. So half the field is WAC, SWAC, So. Con, MEAC, Patriot League, etc. teams that win the regular season, but flame out in the conference tourney.

If we win more than 20 games and end up hosting a CBI game or two that would be a successful year... Especially since most, myself included, thought this would be a rebuilding year. Everyone knew Elmore was good and Burkes was a nice prospect, but guys like George, Watson, Penava, etc. being better than expected has helped the team exceed expectations. We are one quality big man and one depth guard from being a very good team next season.

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

For future schedules, Marshall needs to play OOC games against mid majors who have tourney resumes like Belmont, George Mason, FGC, et al.

 

[oldeherd]

Sucks because ohio and Akron are usually good for that purpose, they just both blow this year

Yeah, Pullman, unfortunate that most of our OOC foes this season are having down or subpar seasons: Southern, NC Central, Tenn.-Martin, Morehead, EKU, and even Illinois all at or below .500. Even UTC, who was "loaded" last year and had 5 senior starters when they beat the Herd, is way down!

 

[All4TheHerd]

The reason why the Morehead State loss hurts so bad is because we didn’t have a signature OOC win to counter balance it.

But honestly if we win 24 games and lose a close game in the CUSA tournament finals then I say we will be considered for the NIT, but I still don’t think we would get it.

What would be nice would be to keep it in our hands and win the CUSA tournament andgo to the real basketball post season tournament. There is absolutely no reason we can’t.

I remember when MU had an RPI of something much better than some of the teams that got into legit post season tournaments...and we still got snubbed.
Was it Herrion's team that got left out with a very high RPI ranking?

 

[chuck1069]

I remember when MU had an RPI of something much better than some of the teams that got into legit post season tournaments...and we still got snubbed.
Was it Herrion's team that got left out with a very high RPI ranking?

Yes, the 2010-11 season with coach Herrion ,his first year, we went 20-12 and finished the season ranked 72nd in the RPI.

The following year 2012-13 we finshed the regular season play, 18-12(9-7) 66th in the RPI.
Played well in the conference tournament (3-1) lost to Memphis in the final. (Memphis won the regular season and Conference Tournament!)
After the conference tournament we were 43rd in the RPI.

We Made The NIT!!!

Lost to Middle Tennessee first round.
That finished our seaon 21-14 and finished 51st in the RPI rankings!

2018
We win the conference tournament we go to NCAA!
If we finish the season strong and place second in conference,hopefully that will bring our RPI up to the 50-60 range. Then we would have a good chance for the NIT!

Go HERD!!!

 

[PullmanFinger]

Yes, the 2010-11 season with coach Herrion ,his first year, we went 20-12 and finished the season ranked 72nd in the RPI.

The following year 2012-13 we finshed the regular season play, 18-12(9-7) 66th in the RPI.
Played well in the conference tournament (3-1) lost to Memphis in the final. (Memphis won the regular season and Conference Tournament!)
After the conference tournament we were 43rd in the RPI.

We Made The NIT!!!

Lost to Middle Tennessee first round.
That finished our seaon 21-14 and finished 51st in the RPI rankings!

2018
We win the conference tournament we go to NCAA!
If we finish the season strong and place second in conference,hopefully that will bring our RPI up to the 50-60 range. Then we would have a good chance for the NIT!

Go HERD!!!

See that’s what I’m saying- a 50-60 RPI and 24 wins.. we’d left out of the NIT?