QB Recruitment

[Rock98Dog]

When speaking of a qb i dont believe athleticism is meant as how fast they are or how high they can jump. Mahomes is an incredible athlete at qb because of what he can do with his body and arm. I saw that with Long. He is not Mahomes, I am not saying that. But some of the throws he can make while on the run are incredibly athletic.

So i disagree that being an athlete cannot be listed in top three attributes for a quarterback playing football in 2023.

Using the exception to the rule is weak sauce. Plus Mahomes threw for 4,600 yards and 50 TDs plus ran for 15 more TDs - in his senior year - of high school.

Still, I wouldn’t list athleticism in his top 3 attributes. You are talking about a guy willing to take below market pay to win. Over the top competitiveness is probably his #1 attribute. I would put his arm talent, ability to read and adjust (smarts), creativity, leadership, etc all as more important than his athleticism. Hell, he was winning games on a busted leg, shows he doesn’t rely on his athleticism to be successful.

 

[herdfan429]

If, IF, IFFFF

Dear god, can we recruit a QB that's NOT a project? PLEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!!?????!!!!

Very few teams in the country have the luxury of recruiting a qb that isn’t a project or needs work

 

[MUMAN3419]

I would just take a top 60 ranked qb. Lol

 

[i am herdman]

Very few teams in the country have the luxury of recruiting a qb that isn’t a project or needs work

Coastal has3 qbs that are better than anyone on our roster. Hell might have 4. If the game would have been 5 mins longer we would have found out.

 

[MUMAN3419]

Coastal has3 qbs that are better than anyone on our roster. Hell might have 4. If the game would have been 5 mins longer we would have found out.

It's called the ability to identify, recruit and develope talent. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh%$. Well, you can, it just taste really bad.

 

[Josh Stowers]

It's called the ability to identify, recruit and develope talent. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh%$. Well, you can, it just taste really bad.

You’re not wrong but more importantly I think it’s a situation where they recruit to their system pretty well.

McCall tried the portal and no one (that he’d entertain) wanted him because he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy. Those guys are few and far between anymore and most of the time they aren’t coming to Marshall. Hell, even if they did, I’m not sure we could keep him upright.

For the record, I’d take a mobile QB over a pocket passer any day of the week…..at least at the college level.

 

[raleighherdfan]

he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

And he wins! Give me a system QB that can lead on the field, consistently make plays, and wins...Of course, we need to figure out a system first.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy.

I didn't think we were building a system that needed to throw 30+ throws a game. It was my understanding we were building an offense that was a run first team. This is the problem. Cam isn't a 30+ throws a game guy. He was always just going to be a game manager behind the running of Ali. (Well, thats gone to shit, now that Ali is being saved for his Pro day). Expecting Cam to carry this team was always going to end in disaster. He's not that kind of playmaker.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Cam is a runner and maybe a game manager. Not a passer. But, it's obviously his lack of passing ability and accuracy has hurt this offense. Then you have those who say it's all a product of poor OL play. Either case, it a failure of the staff to evaluate talent and coach them up to be serviceable. Again, going back to Huff making poor hires due to his lack of connections within the coaching field. Can't stress enough how crucial that was and how the BOG and Gilbert failed to realize that.

 

[i am herdman]

You’re not wrong but more importantly I think it’s a situation where they recruit to their system pretty well.

McCall tried the portal and no one (that he’d entertain) wanted him because he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy. Those guys are few and far between anymore and most of the time they aren’t coming to Marshall. Hell, even if they did, I’m not sure we could keep him upright.

For the record, I’d take a mobile QB over a pocket passer any day of the week…..at least at the college level.

But, we really don't do either well. Is Cam really a runner? Is he a thrower? I don't think teams are really that scared of him running. He is fast, but i have seen a lot of elusive qb's(they always use to seem to hurt Marshall) but, he runs and then slides. Doesn't throw well at all. We started out well out teams figured out just stop the run(Ali) and make Marshall beat us throwing. 5 losses. We are not even productive as an offense at all anymore. Coastal is not even know for their defense. App States defense is not normally what you get from App. Coaching staffs have figured use. Stop Ali(cause we got nothing behind him either) and you beat Marshall.

I am guessing Huff wants Jalen Hurts.

But, look at the kid from Ga State. Why not a guy like that?

 

[Josh Stowers]

But, look at the kid from Ga State. Why not a guy like that?

That's a pretty good example. GAST got lucky in the portal. Hopefully that can happen for us this year.

 

[raleighherdfan]

But, we really don't do either well. Is Cam really a runner? Is he a thrower? I don't think teams are really that scared of him running. He is fast, but i have seen a lot of elusive qb's(they always use to seem to hurt Marshall) but, he runs and then slides. Doesn't throw well at all. We started out well out teams figured out just stop the run(Ali) and make Marshall beat us throwing. 5 losses. We are not even productive as an offense at all anymore. Coastal is not even know for their defense. App States defense is not normally what you get from App. Coaching staffs have figured use. Stop Ali(cause we got nothing behind him either) and you beat Marshall.

I am guessing Huff wants Jalen Hurts.

But, look at the kid from Ga State. Why not a guy like that?

You want your QB sliding more than you want them taking unnecessary hits. Cam was able to use his legs effectively against NCst, VT, ECU, ODU. It kept their defenses off balance. He threw the ball just well enough to keep our run game in it....The offense we ran the first 4-5 games seemed to go out the window completely. Ali gets dinged and suddenly everything is on Cam's shoulders. We were doomed at that point. He's not that kind of player. Defenses have NEVER figured out how to stop Ali the entire game. Our offensive scheme has done a better intentional job of that.

Last week Ali avgs 6.5 yards a carry, and he stops getting the ball after 11 carries. He's still avg over 5 yds a carry for the season with only 16 carries/game. 16!!! That's pitiful. We've completely abandoned the run offense in order to "protect his future". Our "star" player is seen standing on the sidelines many critical downs.

 

[Josh Stowers]

We've completely abandoned the run offense in order to "protect his future". Our "star" player is seen standing on the sidelines many critical downs.

This is a little off-base.

Ali still isn't 100% so when you see him taking a play off, it has very little to do with his future.

 

[raleighherdfan]

This is a little off-base.

Ali still isn't 100% so when you see him taking a play off, it has very little to do with his future.

What's wrong with him exactly? He's literally never mentioned in any press conference. The one week someone tried to ask, the question was mocked and we've never heard another peep. It's like he's a ghost. Our "star" offensive player, the one player we need to at least try and make this offense "go" and...chirp, chirp, chirp. Lingering effects from last year's "personal issues"?

 

[PeytonwGill]

You’re not wrong but more importantly I think it’s a situation where they recruit to their system pretty well.

McCall tried the portal and no one (that he’d entertain) wanted him because he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy. Those guys are few and far between anymore and most of the time they aren’t coming to Marshall. Hell, even if they did, I’m not sure we could keep him upright.

For the record, I’d take a mobile QB over a pocket passer any day of the week…..at least at the college level.

This is not true, like at all. UF and Auburn both wanted him, and he wanted to go to either. His grades got him denied from both institutions.

 

[RhinoD]

A couple points that need made...

1. A QB's greatest ability is between his ears... You know why Brady, Montana, Favre, Mahomes, etc are Hall of Famers? It isn't because they were lights out "athletes" it was because they had/have the ability to read defenses pre-snap and process information post-snap very quickly and make good decisions. A program like MU isn't going to recruit a John Elway, Michael Vick, Lamar Jackson (all ridiculous athletes) very often. Lets find a smart kid that knows football and has the size/arm talent to make the necessary throws.

2. Fancher is not being put in an enviable position... Our coaches are treating him like Trent Dilfer circa 2000 Ravens, but you know, without Jamal Lewis or arguably the best defense ever. If the kid is a game manager, and that certainly seems to fit what we've seen this year, then you have to be committed to, and good at, running the ball (we aren't), play very high-level defense (we don't) and occasionally make a play on special teams (we don't). But instead of trying someone else, we run him out there every week, throw screens and 3-yard slants, run up the middle and punt.

 

[Josh Stowers]

This is not true, like at all. UF and Auburn both wanted him, and he wanted to go to either. His grades got him denied from both institutions.

Think about what you just said and let it sink in.

Once you’ve done that, understand that if an SEC school wants you, then you’ll get admitted.

 

[Jartard]

You’re not wrong but more importantly I think it’s a situation where they recruit to their system pretty well.

McCall tried the portal and no one (that he’d entertain) wanted him because he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy. Those guys are few and far between anymore and most of the time they aren’t coming to Marshall. Hell, even if they did, I’m not sure we could keep him upright.

For the record, I’d take a mobile QB over a pocket passer any day of the week…..at least at the college level.

McCall went back because their were issues with his credits transferring.

 

[Josh Stowers]

McCall went back because their were issues with his credits transferring.

So they said.......Guys @ some of the schools he was tied told a different story prior to the season.

 

[Rock98Dog]

You’re not wrong but more importantly I think it’s a situation where they recruit to their system pretty well.

McCall tried the portal and no one (that he’d entertain) wanted him because he’s more of a system QB than legit QB talent.

Our issue, IMO, is that trying to find a guy that can drop back and throw the ball 30+ times while possessing the ability to beat you with his feet (when necessary) isn’t that easy. Those guys are few and far between anymore and most of the time they aren’t coming to Marshall. Hell, even if they did, I’m not sure we could keep him upright.

For the record, I’d take a mobile QB over a pocket passer any day of the week…..at least at the college level.

When has Marshall ever been good without a pocket passer? Cato was someone that would take advantage of opportunities, but was always a pass first QB.

Beyond that, start naming championship teams with QBs that aren’t overwhelmingly led by pocket passers, or guys that have a part of the running game designed for them? Dual threat QBs that win are more rare than QBs that can accurately throw a 15 yard out or skinny post. First, they get hurt, which means you need 2-3 of them to make it through a season. Second, you have to be able to pass or teams do what they do against us.

You want a QB that can move in the pocket and extend plays, you don’t need one that’s a running threat. If he can take advantage when something opens up, that’s cool (think Joe Burrow level not Cam Newton).

Go look at the top 25, leading teams of every conference, and then tell me what’s more important in a QB.

 

[i am herdman]

That's a pretty good example. GAST got lucky in the portal. Hopefully that can happen for us this year.

He's from Conway, SC? Coastal didn't even take him or I think offered him a walk on spot.. Just think if they had him also. He was playing FCS ball.

Our coaches are not doing a good job recruiting.

 

[i am herdman]

You want your QB sliding more than you want them taking unnecessary hits. Cam was able to use his legs effectively against NCst, VT, ECU, ODU. It kept their defenses off balance. He threw the ball just well enough to keep our run game in it....The offense we ran the first 4-5 games seemed to go out the window completely. Ali gets dinged and suddenly everything is on Cam's shoulders. We were doomed at that point. He's not that kind of player. Defenses have NEVER figured out how to stop Ali the entire game. Our offensive scheme has done a better intentional job of that.

Last week Ali avgs 6.5 yards a carry, and he stops getting the ball after 11 carries. He's still avg over 5 yds a carry for the season with only 16 carries/game. 16!!! That's pitiful. We've completely abandoned the run offense in order to "protect his future". Our "star" player is seen standing on the sidelines many critical downs.

Well, it goes back to what I was saying. After Ali we have nothing at RB. Again, a recruiting mistake.

 

[i am herdman]

This is not true, like at all. UF and Auburn both wanted him, and he wanted to go to either. His grades got him denied from both institutions.

Don't know if that is exactly accurate. I have heard(for what it is worth) at least at Auburn he was told he was not a guaranteed starter and they have a good qb he would have had to beat out.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Don't know if that is exactly accurate. I have heard(for what it is worth) at least at Auburn he was told he was not a guaranteed starter and they have a good qb he would have had to beat out.

Same thing applies at other schools. He was “offered” but they didn’t really want him.

 

[Josh Stowers]

When has Marshall ever been good without a pocket passer? Cato was someone that would take advantage of opportunities, but was always a pass first QB.

Beyond that, start naming championship teams with QBs that aren’t overwhelmingly led by pocket passers, or guys that have a part of the running game designed for them? Dual threat QBs that win are more rare than QBs that can accurately throw a 15 yard out or skinny post. First, they get hurt, which means you need 2-3 of them to make it through a season. Second, you have to be able to pass or teams do what they do against us.

You want a QB that can move in the pocket and extend plays, you don’t need one that’s a running threat. If he can take advantage when something opens up, that’s cool (think Joe Burrow level not Cam Newton).

Go look at the top 25, leading teams of every conference, and then tell me what’s more important in a QB.

I'm not talking about a Pat White type of QB.

I'm talking about a guy that provides the run/pass option.

He can be a pass first or run first for all I care as long as he's capable and smart about it.

The odds of trying to find a Chad or Byron in the rough are not in our favor. They aren't in very many G5's favor. That's why I believe a system is 1,000x more important than personnel nowadays for G5 schools. The portal makes in harder to develop kids and kids that are capable of playing early on probably aren't coming to Marshall. That's why you see certain schools roll through kids without missing a beat. They have consistency in their system and recruit to it. The reason I'd choose a mobile QB over a pocket passer is because I think it's easier to mold an offense around them. Again, I'm talking about quarterbacks at the college level. You can mask a lot of deficiencies with those guys as well.

 

[Rock98Dog]

22 of the top 50 QBs in passing efficiency play at G5 schools.
21 of the top 50 in TD passes play at G5 schools.

In our conference we are :
8th in passing offense
13th in yards per completion
12th in passing efficiency
13th in interceptions thrown

So I’m not expecting the next Byron to walk through the door, but how about somebody who isn’t in the statistical cellar? And with that option at QB we call a pass heavy game plan. Why have 4-5 WRs on the field, especially small ones that don’t block very well? If you can’t throw effectively, why can’t you go 21 or 22 so you can block for your “athletic QB” and your only real offensive weapon in Ali?

If you aren’t, or can’t, change QBs you have to change something. We just keep doing the same ineffective thing week after week.

 

[Jartard]

How’d that QB from Hurricane do against those “big time players” from Parkersburg tonight?

 

[Catfanatic1979v1]

I think Cole Pennington will look much different by seasons end.

 

[MUMAN3419]

I think Cole Pennington will look much different by seasons end.

But will the oline? 2 turnover, both on oline