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- Thread starter riflearm2
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How can I find the original thread where Rifle went through the assistant coach hires one by one at the time they were made?
Thanks. I found it. The hires that Rifle had concerns about when they were made were, in order from most concerning on down.
1. Special Teams - Springer
2. DC/Safeties - Guidry
3. RB - Lockette
4. CB - Bowman
5. LB - Morrison
Think about the problems on the team. Wow.
1. Special Teams - Springer
2. DC/Safeties - Guidry
3. RB - Lockette
4. CB - Bowman
5. LB - Morrison
Think about the problems on the team. Wow.
There were a bunch of them, some of which are on the paid board.
I also had major concerns about the Trickett hire, especially as a receivers coach, which I posted about in multiple threads. He had never played nor coached receivers. He had just been fired by an inferior program in our own conference. If not for his surname, there's a good chance he'd still be coaching at a JUCO. We were taking a coach who wasn't good enough at an inferior school in our own conference and hiring him to coach a position he had never played nor coached. I don't like it.
These criticisms aren't personal. It's simply a view of a fan questioning what he believes were poor hires. You can Google my name and read things similar said about me. After I had been hired at a school, some fans questioned hiring somebody who had been coaching at an HBCU and had sued their previous school. I get it. It comes with the territory. And then when I led their recruiting to a top 10 national FCS ranking and my starter to a top 10 nationally ranked QB, they sang a different tune. I'd love for nothing more than all of the people listed above to be able to do the same thing to me.
do you think some of the hires were made to wow the fans(here is the local guy, connection to the area or Marshall) and to try to get a staff of guys known for recruiting while giving up strategy and x and o's? I would think a young head coach like Huff, who was not a coordinator, would need great coordinators and some great x and o guys. Did Huff not have the connections to get a more qualified staff? Some of the hires were head scratchers, particularly for a young first time head coach.
I think he was doing some smart things by going with some alums/locals. I think he may have gone a bit overboard in doing so. Really, none of the guys outside of Telly is known as a great recruiter. And Telly's recruiting success has been South Florida, which didn't match with Huff's promise that they'd be focusing recruiting on a radius of so many miles around Huntington. Bowman ran around yelling that he's the "King of Memphis," but as I mentioned previously, that's about as valuable as being the Mayor of Beech Fork.
A school like Texas State (who should be making a change this year but won't), FIU (who should make a change three weeks ago but whose AD is good friends with their HC), or Marshall needs to do what Coastal Carolina did. Hire a guy who knows how to manage an organization and people. Find that great businessman who also happens to have some football experience. Give the head coach $300K, and use the other $600K to supplement both the OC and DC salaries. That means, including the salary allotment already set aside for coordinators, each coordinator would make around $500K while the HC would make $300K. Considering he's a great businessman, he won't be hard-up for cash. Now, you have (in theory) two of the highest paid and best coordinators that a G5 school could possibly get. Surround those guys with a ton of great recruiters.
What did Coastal do? They hired the Chairman/CEO of TD Ameritrade. He just happened to have some experience as an FCS assistant coach prior to his business career. He also just happened to have $300 million around the house, so he wasn't a big expense for Coastal. He built a good foundation for the organization, then hired a good HC to replace him while still overseeing the overall program (in a GM type of role). How's Coastal done since then?
Good points. Saw Coastal play last year. Very well coached football team. Didn't look real big, but played with a ton emotion and you could tell were well coached. They do have a good qb.
I always thought Marshall should maybe look at head coach at a lower division who had proven he could win.
Why do you think Huff didn’t keep more of Doc’s assistant coaches, especially the WR coach, who was way more qualified than Tricket? Are new coaches that paranoid about keeping the old staff?
I've said this for years. Find a successful FCS HC, hire him, he brings his staff and/or coordinators and they all double their salaries. Good experience. But the objection to that thought is - they have no D1 recruiting experience. To which I always laughed at that excuse.
That's what our AD said when he brought in Bob Daniels and tanked BBall in the 70s.
Hiring FCS/lower level coaches isn't a magic pill, fellas.
Mike Houston at ECU has been very average and is on the hot seat.
Everett Withers went 7-28 at Texas State after two solid years at JMU.
Chris Kleinman won four NCs in five years at NDSU and is 9-11 at Kansas State in Big 12 play.
Craig Bohl wont three straight NCs in his final three years at NDSU and ever since is 42-44 at Wyoming.
Chuck Martin is 34-49 after going 74-7 at Grand Valley State.
Mike London was 18-31 at UVA after going 24-5 at Richmond.
Now, to be fair, there's been some success stories. Bill Clark, Brian Kelly, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Monken come to mind. I'm sure there are others as well. But dropping down a level for a HC hire is FAR from something that is guaranteed to work.
Mike Houston at ECU has been very average and is on the hot seat.
Everett Withers went 7-28 at Texas State after two solid years at JMU.
Chris Kleinman won four NCs in five years at NDSU and is 9-11 at Kansas State in Big 12 play.
Craig Bohl wont three straight NCs in his final three years at NDSU and ever since is 42-44 at Wyoming.
Chuck Martin is 34-49 after going 74-7 at Grand Valley State.
Mike London was 18-31 at UVA after going 24-5 at Richmond.
Now, to be fair, there's been some success stories. Bill Clark, Brian Kelly, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Monken come to mind. I'm sure there are others as well. But dropping down a level for a HC hire is FAR from something that is guaranteed to work.
It may not be but our last 3 HC's had no HC, OC or DC experience, or very little and it showed. Thankfully Doc had enough connections to get some decent assistants in here.
It all depends on fit as well. Going from FCS to P5 IS a drastic change in culture and the type athlete needed. Here at Marshall, not so much. jmho
A lot of those examples are top FCS coaches going to P5 programs that have a lot of historical awfulness mixed with limited occasional success. ECU has been a cluster since they fired Ruff, but they are starting to turn the corner.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, but you try to eliminate as many risks as possible in the decision making process. When someone has HC experience it gives you more to evaluate. It’s like recruiting a player you have a lot of tape on versus one you have no tape on, but he tells you how great he will be if you give him a chance.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, but you try to eliminate as many risks as possible in the decision making process. When someone has HC experience it gives you more to evaluate. It’s like recruiting a player you have a lot of tape on versus one you have no tape on, but he tells you how great he will be if you give him a chance.
Why did you choose to get out of coaching? Also, from the perspective of a coach, what can be done about these fumble issues which seem to be systemic to this team and not any single player?
Rifle makes some good points about Coastal.... I have always felt Marshall should pay their Head Coach about 450-500, and use the money to up the Assistant Coaches pay. Let's be real, for most coaches they do not intend for Marshall to be their final stop....
Coastal got lucky, there arent many other Joe Moglia's out there, if any. Joe wanted to coach again, but after spending a year at Nebraska, there really werent many takers. Been gone too long they said. So Coastal did take a chance, and they got rewarded. Asking a new HC to take less then market rate leaves you to have to ask Why? Why would they do that, but I doubt it is because they have $300 million in the bank and have written several books on football, like Joe. Maybe we can find that guy, IDK.
Joe Moglia - Wikipedia
Amazon product ASIN 0136572219
You hit the nail on the head , bro! The Special teams and the Defense are a complete mess as you predicted.
Great post. Agree. It seems to me that finding the right guy seems to be a bit of a crap shoot. Look at recent locks for good fits like Herman at UT, Frost at Nebraska, and even Harbaugh at least up to this point. Even the home run, can't miss hires aren't a sure thing. I think the best that can be done is to find the most qualified person that fits the organization. Then when it is clear it is not a good fit, the organization has to be prepared to move on. A continual force-feeding isn't good for any that are involved.
Texas is a different animal. You have to be 60-70% politician and 30-40% HC. I've read many Texas fan posts on the main board over the years about why so many "good" coaches fail there. You're not just allowed to be a football coach. You have to excel at rubbing elbows with egomaniac millionaire and billionaires who want to control the program. Texas is one of those programs that should never be bad and they have been for a while now. USC is another program that has no business being in the situation they are. Both can just throw rocks out of their backdoors and hit 5-star recruits. You have to be a high profile guy to coach at those schools.
I remember being at a Southern Cal game and they had one of those moments where they recognized a big donation like we do. It was one donor and the donation was 6 million dollars. It was during the time where Marshall had a campaign that raised 30 million dollars and USC (The Real One) raised close to a quarter of that in one donor on one check in a 2 minute during a timeout ceremony. USC (the real one) has so much money that it’s ridiculous. The fact they have been mediocre for so many years is baffling.
Schools like Ohio State, USC, Texas and a few others should never be even mediocre let alone bad.
And herein lies the fallacy of the P5/G5 debate... Could Marshall, or any above average G5 team, move into a bigger league and compete with the worst P5 programs, the Kansas, Vandy, Boston College, Washington State's of the world? Sure... Will Marshall, or any above average G5 team, ever be able to consistently compete with the 20-25 true "blue bloods"? Not in our lifetime.
Thats why Boise, UCF, Cinci (right now) make runs, make headlines, and then come back to reality after a few years. No matter how well you play football, you will never have the money/facilities/tradition/support that Bama, Florida, USC, Texas, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc have.
Agree. We see Boise and UCF coming back to the G5 pack now. Cinci is riding the big wave currently.
It’s funny the year before Cincinnati started their run, we went into Cincinnati and thumped them.
Go back even a decade or so before the plane crash and Marshall seldom hired a head coach from somewhere else with mixed results when it did. Charlies Snyder was a former MU player but not a HC at any college, IIRC, when hired at M
U. Then we hired the HC of the pro Charleston Rockets, Perry Moss, and how did that all turn out? Pre and post crash, I believe we either hired or offered on separate occasions the head job to Dick Bestwick, who supposedly accepted the job but then went back to UVA. Similar thing happened with a guy named Burnie Miller who was an assistant at Purdue. Jack Lengyel was the HC at Wooster College in Ohio when he took over in 71. Followed by Frank Ellwood who I believe was an assistant coach at Ohio State, where he had played quarterback. Then came colorful Sonny Randle, who had been head man at both UVA, his alma mater, and at ECU. Stan Parrish was an assistant when he came to MU. Same, I believe, applies to George Chaump, who after MU had much success coaching high school ball in PA. Donnan, Pruett, Mark Snyder, Holliday, and now Huff.
Most successful MU head Coach who had previously been a FBS level head coach during this whole period is . . . Rick Minter, former HC of the Cincinnati Bearcats, who took over after Mark Snyder was let go and coached the Herd in a bowl game (Motor City?) where the HERD beat Ohio U. Minter's 1-0 mark is the "best" and only winning record of all the former Head Coaches who ended up becoming the Head Man at MU during these last 60 years, if I've recalled fairly correctly.
This, of courses, takes into consideration Lengyel's tenure where a won-loss record takes a distant back seat to what he and his staff accomplished during unprecedented and extraordinary circumstances.
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Our last three HC's had no DC or OC experience running a D1 unit on their own. All were position coaches, or co-coaches, etc.
Fact is, we can't afford a top flight D1 OC or DC these days. We can't pay them what they demand and they are looking at bigger programs than ours. The attitude that an FCS coach is below us is ridiculous and part of the reason we are where we are.
We like to think of ourselves as one big bad ass program that everyone fears or strives to be like. Maybe 20 years ago, but the glory days are gone. We've had one note worthy season since 2003. ONE. One league title in the last 15 years or so, ONE.
Lets come down to earth and get a clear view of where we stand.
Now, that being said, doesn't mean we shouldn't push the envelope and be the best we can be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get the best players and coaches we can. Realistically, I think we have underperformed greatly since 2014 and should expect better. A lot of it comes from the direction and ambition from Old Main and the Schewey. We got too comfortable, people got complacent and that kills a program quick.
Fact is, we can't afford a top flight D1 OC or DC these days. We can't pay them what they demand and they are looking at bigger programs than ours. The attitude that an FCS coach is below us is ridiculous and part of the reason we are where we are.
We like to think of ourselves as one big bad ass program that everyone fears or strives to be like. Maybe 20 years ago, but the glory days are gone. We've had one note worthy season since 2003. ONE. One league title in the last 15 years or so, ONE.
Lets come down to earth and get a clear view of where we stand.
Now, that being said, doesn't mean we shouldn't push the envelope and be the best we can be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get the best players and coaches we can. Realistically, I think we have underperformed greatly since 2014 and should expect better. A lot of it comes from the direction and ambition from Old Main and the Schewey. We got too comfortable, people got complacent and that kills a program quick.
The results are clearly not there so far. Rifle may very well be spot on with his concerns (they look so right now). But I have remind myself that we are 5 games into a brand new coaching staff when I get all fired up.
I’m going to try to calm down, let the season play out, and see what adjustments he makes based on the results.
I’m going to try to calm down, let the season play out, and see what adjustments he makes based on the results.
I always have to remind myself to do the same... Year one is going to feature growing pains, maybe we are just getting them out of the way early.
One thing I will say though, if we ever "needed" a win in week six it is this week. ODU is a bad football team, we are at home, its homecoming, a chance to right the ship a little bit and get some confidence back. A win this week and everyone gets to take a deep breath.
Go look at stats. The WR group is NOT the problem with this team. Offense is averaging over 500 yards a game but turnovers are an issue. the defense is giving up well over 400 yards a game, and special teams continues to be a huge problem, so unless Clint coaches specials teams or defense then his group of guys are down the list of issues.
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