Schumer

[KyMUfan]

That’s cool how did it work out in the end?

We are nowhere near the end.

A lot of people are going to pick self determination over economic growth.

We aren't talking 1776 self determination. How much self determination is allowed in Sharia Law?

1776 self determination brought people in.

Let's look at recent emigration from Iran.

Migration and Brain Drain from Iran | Iranian Studies

Download Full Paper

iranian-studies.stanford.edu

I also would be interested to see who benefitted most from that growth.

Just a guess... The top half of the image in case you are confused...😉

 

[HerdandHokies]

We are nowhere near the end.



We aren't talking 1776 self determination. How much self determination is allowed in Sharia Law?

1776 self determination brought people in.

Let's look at recent emigration from Iran.

Migration and Brain Drain from Iran | Iranian Studies

Download Full Paper

iranian-studies.stanford.edu

Just a guess... The top half of the image in case you are confused...😉

Self determination is a population choosing their system of government without an outsider choosing it for them. That doesn’t mean they pick a good one, but the desire for that (and not every culture has really cared throughout history) leads to “snap back” effects when they get pushed around.

Now, we only got to see how things worked out the way they happened of course. It’s possible that Iran left to its own devices would’ve ended up just as bad or worse. What we know for sure is that you can draw a bold line between Operation Ajax and the 1979 uprising. And I would argue most places we go and foment an uprising end up worse after.

 

[KyMUfan]

Self determination is a population choosing their system of government without an outsider choosing it for them. That doesn’t mean they pick a good one, but the desire for that (and not every culture has really cared throughout history) leads to “snap back” effects when they get pushed around.

Hmmm... Sounds like the guilty parties are up to these same shenanigans again trying to keep a populist individual off ballots in several states... Glad we can agree on that. 🙂👍

Now, we only got to see how things worked out the way they happened of course. It’s possible that Iran left to its own devices would’ve ended up just as bad or worse. What we know for sure is that you can draw a bold line between Operation Ajax and the 1979 uprising. And I would argue most places we go and foment an uprising end up worse after.

That is a matter of opinion. Most of the places we did this to were medieval at best to begin with. North Korea vs. South Korea is a good example to look at.

 

[HerdandHokies]

North and South Korea would be about a tie on balance, eh? That situation was FUBAR thanks to Japan after WWII though, so I guess we couldn’t have broken it much worse than it already was.

Maybe the same could be said after British and Soviet meddling in Iran. We probably should’ve just let Britain deal with it and accept the inevitable blowback but I guess we wanted that oil too.

 

[i am herdman]

This is clear example of why we can't win wars and will likelh never win another big war. If WW2 were taking place today it would be lost. You go to war and you take the complete will out of the enemy. Not now. We take lawyers and politicans set stupid rules of engagement. We could never do what we did to Japan and Germany in WW2 now. We shouldn't expect Israel to sit back and stop. If Hamas had a better army and tanks and better weaposn they would slaughter every jew within 500 miles. But, we expect them to stop.

The USA cannot fight wars anymore because one hand is tied behind our back by people that don't want to accept reality, the press, and weak spined politicans. We bombed Dresden Germanh into a rubble pile in order to win the war. Now we expect soldier to get shot at and then ask permission to shoot back. Then, they are called baby killers.

America cannot win a war.

 

[KyMUfan]

North and South Korea would be about a tie on balance, eh? That situation was FUBAR thanks to Japan after WWII though, so I guess we couldn’t have broken it much worse than it already was.

Interesting your comment about Japan. During WWII Japan and Germany were our adversaries and Russia and China were our allies...

Maybe the same could be said after British and Soviet meddling in Iran. We probably should’ve just let Britain deal with it and accept the inevitable blowback but I guess we wanted that oil too.

You liberals think that is a one way proposition. How many billions of dollars were invested in the Middle East and other nations that brought economic growth and higher standards of living with it? Of course we wanted the oil. But it came at a cost before there were any benefits.

How much foreign aid have we provided without any returning benefits?

 

[Rock98Dog]

Self determination is a population choosing their system of government without an outsider choosing it for them. That doesn’t mean they pick a good one, but the desire for that (and not every culture has really cared throughout history) leads to “snap back” effects when they get pushed around.

Now, we only got to see how things worked out the way they happened of course. It’s possible that Iran left to its own devices would’ve ended up just as bad or worse. What we know for sure is that you can draw a bold line between Operation Ajax and the 1979 uprising. And I would argue most places we go and foment an uprising end up worse after.

The people of Iran rose up as a coalition. When the coup succeeded, the Islamist quickly turned on all other parties of the coalition and set up a religious dictatorship. Not exactly self determination.