4-year-old dies from flu after members of anti-vax Facebook group advise his mom to use thyme and elderberries instead of Tamiflu
This week, the state of Colorado suffered its second pediatric flu death of the season.
The dangers of these anti-science groups and gullible people...
- Thread starter GK4Herd
- Start date
“Now, screenshots from an anti-vax Facebook group called "Stop Mandatory Vaccination" are circulating online, and they appear to show that the week before Najee died, his mother sought advice on how to treat her sons' illness. Members of the group advised giving the boys vitamins, botanicals, and fruits and vegetables rather than the Tamiflu that their doctor prescribed.
In the thread, which has now apparently been scrubbed from the group's Facebook page, the mom wrote, "The doc prescribed tamaflu [sic] I did not pick it up." One user advises, "You're better off taking Vitamin D and C, Elderberry, Zinc, and eating lots of fruits and vegetables."
“Ok perfect I’ll try that,” she responds.”
In the thread, which has now apparently been scrubbed from the group's Facebook page, the mom wrote, "The doc prescribed tamaflu [sic] I did not pick it up." One user advises, "You're better off taking Vitamin D and C, Elderberry, Zinc, and eating lots of fruits and vegetables."
“Ok perfect I’ll try that,” she responds.”
“Any other tips I'm terrified for another seizure," she writes. "Please no hard comments I am a momma freaking out all alone in this with a family who believes in none natural ways so I'm going through alone and they are making me feel bad for not putting him on Tamiflu."
"Boil thyme on the stove," a group member chimes in. "Vit C until diarrhea."
The group, which has more than 178,000 members and 10,000 posts in the last 30 days alone, is run by a self-proclaimed "advocate for natural living" named Larry Cook, whose website slogan is, "Vaccines don't save lives, healthy immune systems do!"
"Boil thyme on the stove," a group member chimes in. "Vit C until diarrhea."
The group, which has more than 178,000 members and 10,000 posts in the last 30 days alone, is run by a self-proclaimed "advocate for natural living" named Larry Cook, whose website slogan is, "Vaccines don't save lives, healthy immune systems do!"
Honestly who would give a 4 year old a flu shot? Or the covid shot? I understand Tamiflu once you get sick.
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Tamiflu isn’t a flu shot. It’s an anti-viral used to treat someone with the flu. This kid had the flu and was having seizures from the high fever. This woman treated it with suggestions from this anti-science group on Facebook. You know...those science proven methods of oils and putting potatoes in his socks. The fact that this was your reply highlights the danger of this anti-science movement.
You both seem to agree Tamiflu as a legitimate therapy.
You edited to add stuff after your first sentence. So I’ll respond to what you added. This will become political, but I see this from a science point only. Why give covid shot? Because covid vaccines work. The makeup of patients in hospitals being treated for covid are 99% unvaccinated people. The problem isn’t the mortality among the younger group that’s unvaccinated, the problem is the evolution of the virus. The longer this is allowed to proliferate the greater chance that this will mutate and hit the world with a strain that the vaccine won’t work on. Saying that people in this group don’t die isn’t the point. The point is, if everyone was vaccinated we would end this thing. The virus can’t mutate if it’s mostly eradicated.
We have the evidence. Millions are vaccinated. It is overwhelmingly safe and overwhelmingly effective. But as soon as we have a breakthrough mutation, the people who were unvaccinated, for whatever reason, will be the ones screaming the loudest when we go back to square one.
When I quoted him he only had the first sentence of his post. He later edited to add what you quoted. But yea...we agree on that.
You would give a covid shot to a 4 year old?
I agree about Tamiflu. I would give that to someone, even a child, after getting it to reduce the symptoms.
But, no way I would give a covid shot to a 4 year old. Not a chance.
Millions of young children have taken COVID vaccine? CDC is only suggesting 12 and older receive it.
So, this is the part that I don't get. I hear a lady yesterday, who was wearing her mask, talk about going to fireworks on July 4.
"Well, we would like to go see the fireworks but we are not sure because of all the unvaccinated people."
Ok, well, ma'am, are you not going to be outside? Can you not stay a few feet away from other people? If that is not an option can you not sit in your car?
Ma'am, if you have your vaccination, why are your worried? You are vaccinated?
These are the people that are bizarre. They are never going to let it go.
Ma'am why the hell are you wearing that mask?
"Well, we would like to go see the fireworks but we are not sure because of all the unvaccinated people."
Ok, well, ma'am, are you not going to be outside? Can you not stay a few feet away from other people? If that is not an option can you not sit in your car?
Ma'am, if you have your vaccination, why are your worried? You are vaccinated?
These are the people that are bizarre. They are never going to let it go.
Ma'am why the hell are you wearing that mask?
Vaccinating a 4 year old is stupid and there is no reason for it.
Take a shot for this. Take a shot for that. We are going to teach these kids to go into hiding every time it is cold and flu season.
I'm sure it's being studied in children under 12, but I haven't seen a "consensus" on it's approved use yet. Without "consensus", it isn't real science. At least that's what I am told.
Why is it stupid when (in WV for example) your child to be accepted into a childcare center, the requirements for 1 1/2 year olds are to be vaccinated for hepatitis, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, polio, measles, and varicella?
I never said that. And of course I’m aware of the 12 and up recommendation of the CDC. That’s because the 12 and up are the groups that have been tested so far. Studies are being done in younger groups to assess the safety. The studies show safety among the 12 and up, thus the 12 and up recommendation . As studies are conducted on younger age groups, that will go down if found safe. Don’t muddle the point in semantics. The vaccine is overwhelmingly safe and effective among those who are vaccinated. Those in the approved age groups not getting vaccinated are putting everyone at risk.
Seriously people, why would you get advice from random strangers on a Facebook group?
I get my doctoring advice right here on Pullman from our forum physician, Doc Fungus. He's saved me a couple times on Saturday nights, and that's this year alone.
If Doc Fungus isn't around, you can always ask the guy that seems to know everything.
I get my doctoring advice right here on Pullman from our forum physician, Doc Fungus. He's saved me a couple times on Saturday nights, and that's this year alone.
If Doc Fungus isn't around, you can always ask the guy that seems to know everything.
Are vaccine trials in younger kids happening now?
There’s no clear timetable yet for immunizing younger kids. But plans to research the vaccines in this population are in the works.“Before COVID-19 vaccines become available for younger teens and children, clinical trials need to be completed. This is to ensure they are safe and effective for these age groups,” writes Dr. James D. Campbell, a pediatric infectious disease specialist who serves on the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Infectious Diseases. “Children are not little adults; we can’t just assume a vaccine will have the same effect on a child as it does for someone older.”
Pfizer and BioNTech will study their vaccine in kids ages 6 months to 11 years old, with plans to enroll 4,600 children for the project.
Moderna is planning to test its vaccine in the same age group. It aims to enroll an estimated 6,750 participants in its study.
After researchers complete their studies, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) will make recommendations on the COVID-19 vaccine for younger teens and children.
And something that hits home personally. I am hearing impaired as a result of German Measles (Rubella) at a young age. The Rubella vaccine was developed and rolled out in the late 60s. If I were born 10 years later, I’d have been vaccinated for it and wouldn’t have a lifetime dealing with hearing impairment. Unless of course herdman was my dad and said..It’s stupid to give a kid a Rubella vaccine.
We were talking about Covid, GK. First of all, the COVID vaccine at this point is not recommended for children under 12. Second, we don't know the long term effects from it. Third, it is still not fully FDA approved. Finally, Covid does not appear to cause many issues in 4 year olds. We don't have all the data on how it effects 4 year olds.
You can't compare a 50 year old male or my 80 year old mother to a 4 year old.
The vaccines that some mention we have decades of history on and data. That is completely different than a COVID vaccine. In addition, the effects of some of those diseases are worse than Covid on a 4 year old.
And I'm asking you why it's stupid to vaccinate children for covid when (in WV for example) your child to be accepted into a childcare center, the requirements for 1 1/2 year olds are to be vaccinated for hepatitis, diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, polio, measles, and varicella?
No more DEFLECTIONS, Snot. Answer the question.
Moron, he asked it also with him talking about Rubella
First of all, the COVID vaccine at this point is not recommended for children under 12. Second, we don't know the long term effects from it. Third, it is still not fully FDA approved. Finally, Covid does not appear to cause many issues in 4 year olds. We don't have all the data on how it effects 4 year olds.
You can't compare a 50 year old male or my 80 year old mother to a 4 year old.
The vaccines that some mention we have decades of history on and data. That is completely different than a COVID vaccine. In addition, the effects of some of those diseases are worse than Covid on a 4 year old.
Everyone already knew this, and I'm fairly sure GK was not suggesting vaccinations for children until testing is completed.
Name a vaccine for which we knew the long term effects in advance of administering the vaccine.
Neither was the first smallpox vaccine. The FDA didn't exist then.
While all children are capable of getting the virus that causes COVID-19, they don't become sick as often as adults. Most children have mild symptoms or no symptoms.
According to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association, in the U.S. children represent about 13% of all COVID-19 cases. Research suggests that children younger than ages 10 to 14 are less likely to become infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 compared to people age 20 and older.
However, some children become severely ill with COVID-19. They might need to be hospitalized, treated in the intensive care unit or placed on a ventilator to help them breathe, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
In addition, children with underlying conditions, such as obesity, diabetes and asthma, might be at higher risk of serious illness with COVID-19. Children who have congenital heart disease, genetic conditions or conditions affecting the nervous system or metabolism also might be at higher risk of serious illness with COVID-19.
Research also suggests disproportionately higher rates of COVID-19 in Hispanic and non-Hispanic Black children than in non-Hispanic white children.
Rarely, some children might also develop a serious condition that appears to be linked to COVID-19.
See above.
Semantics are Greed's specialty. I stated that it wasn't approved/recommended for anyone under 12, when it wasn't clear the discussion had broken away from a "4 year old" COVID discussion- patient example. And I've never questioned the vaccine's efficacy. I've taken it too.
Now back to the Rubella, Flu, or introducing some other vaccination topic.......
Because it's not approved or studied yet.
First of all, I am not anti vaccination. Second, it did appear that GK and Greed were arguing for vaccinations for 4 year olds. It still does.
Some quick research shows that it took 50 years to develop a polio vaccine. It took literally months to come up with these COVID vaccines. The risk of COVID to an 80 year old is far greater than it is to a 4 year old. In addition, long terms effects. which we don't know of, are of potential greater risk to the 4 year old. Risk of covid issues are not that great for the vast majority of 4 year olds. In addition, this is a different "disease" than others such as small pox.
My son had all his vaccinations growing up. But, we have had decades up decades of data from those vaccines. The only one he did get was the chicken pox vaccine. He got chicken pox and that was that. I believe the chicken pox vaccine came out right about the time he got it or was just introduced when he was a baby. Matter fact he has had some of them 3 or 4 times from Uncle Sam(but that is a different story) But, if he were 4 , or probably even under 18, I would not vaccinate him if he were healthy. He could make his own choice later if he wanted. I see no need for it especially in small children such as a 4 year old.
Some quick research shows that it took 50 years to develop a polio vaccine. It took literally months to come up with these COVID vaccines. The risk of COVID to an 80 year old is far greater than it is to a 4 year old. In addition, long terms effects. which we don't know of, are of potential greater risk to the 4 year old. Risk of covid issues are not that great for the vast majority of 4 year olds. In addition, this is a different "disease" than others such as small pox.
My son had all his vaccinations growing up. But, we have had decades up decades of data from those vaccines. The only one he did get was the chicken pox vaccine. He got chicken pox and that was that. I believe the chicken pox vaccine came out right about the time he got it or was just introduced when he was a baby. Matter fact he has had some of them 3 or 4 times from Uncle Sam(but that is a different story) But, if he were 4 , or probably even under 18, I would not vaccinate him if he were healthy. He could make his own choice later if he wanted. I see no need for it especially in small children such as a 4 year old.
If your smart ass is referring to me, I'd tell you to go to a goddamn doctor. And given this thread, and my answer yeah it seems like I do more know than some people. Can you imagine your kid having a fever so high he is having seizures and giving him some damned herbs out of the garden? We ain't Indians out on the Plains dancing around in fvcking buffalo skins, we have modern medicine.
which shows greed's hypocritical nature again. lecturing about vaccines but then getting onto others about taking medicines.
Birth
- HepB: Hepatitis B vaccine. Ideally, the first dose is given within 24 hours of birth, but kids not previously immunized can get it at any age. Some low birth weight infants will get it at 1 month or when they're discharged from the hospital.
1–2 months
- HepB: Second dose should be given 1 to 2 months after the first dose.
2 months
- DTaP: Diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis vaccine
- Hib: Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine
- IPV: Inactivated poliovirus vaccine
- PCV: Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine
- RV: Rotavirus vaccine
4 months
- DTaP
- Hib
- IPV
- PCV
- RV
6 months
- DTaP
- Hib: This third dose may be needed, depending on the brand of vaccine used in previous Hib immunizations.
- PCV
- RV: This third dose may be needed, depending on the brand of vaccine used in previous RV immunizations.
6 months and annually
- Influenza (Flu):The flu vaccine is recommended every year for children 6 months and older:
- Kids younger than 9 who get the flu vaccine for the first time (or who have had only 1 dose of the vaccine in the past) will get it in 2 separate doses at least a month apart.
- Kids younger than 9 who have had at least 2 doses of flu vaccine previously (at any time) will need only 1 dose.
- Kids older than 9 need only 1 dose.
- The vaccine is given by injection with a needle (the flu shot) or by nasal spray. Both types of vaccine can be used this flu season (2020–2021) because they seem to work equally well. Your doctor will recommend which to use based on your child's age and general health. The nasal spray is only for healthy people ages 2–49. People with weak immune systems or some health conditions (such as asthma) and pregnant women should not get the nasal spray vaccine.
6–18 months
- HepB
- IPV
12–15 months
- Hib
- MMR: Measles, mumps, and rubella (German measles) vaccine
- PCV
- Chickenpox (varicella)
12–23 months
- HepA: Hepatitis A vaccine; given as 2 shots at least 6 months apart
15–18 months
- DTaP
4–6 years
- DTaP
- MMR
- IPV
- Varicella
11–12 years
- HPV: Human papillomavirus vaccine, given in 2 shots over a 6- to 12-month period. It can be given as early as age 9. For teens and young adults (ages 15–26 in girls and boys both), it is given in 3 shots over 6 months. It's recommended for both girls and boys to prevent genital warts and some types of cancer.
- Tdap: Tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis booster. Also recommended during each pregnancy a woman has.
- Meningococcal conjugate vaccine: And a booster dose is recommended at age 16.
16–18 years
- Meningococcal B vaccine (MenB): The MenB vaccine may be given to kids and teens in 2 or 3 doses, depending on the brand. Unlike the meningococcal conjugate vaccine, which is recommended, the decision to get the MenB vaccine is made by the teens, their parents, and the doctor.
a flu shot for a kid? Good lord. Let me give a 6 year old a flu shot. WTF? Or a 6 month old? Hell no
This thread was started with a link of a boy that died from the flu. So...essential oils?
Good answer from the Deflector In Chief....demanding no more deflections. Is he a hypocrite or what?
who knows? he is never happy. He goes on about this but gets on people for taking other medications. Wants to stick a 1.5 year old with an experimental vaccine.
I know you think the CDC is a tool of the Commies, but the rest of us that believe in science and expertise might check what they say before making such statements.
Children younger than 5 years old– especially those younger than 2– are at high risk of developing serious flu-related complications.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/infantcare.htm
