Toledo Basketball Rematch

[muthed]

I did. You just don’t like the answer.

I'm stupid. Spell it out slowly for me.

 

[The Real SamC]

I'm stupid. Spell it out slowly for me.

Well, first off, MU is FBS, or to use the term that should have never been changed, I-A. There are 130 I-A programs. MU is the fourth smallest enrollment among public schools in I-A. West Virginia is the smallest state to have two I-A programs, and 4th smallest to have even one (Wyoming, Idaho, Hawaii). MU is in Conference USA, which exists for one purpose, like minded institutions relative to football (where you think this or that school has an actual chance to compete given its economic situation is a different discussion, each is here because it wants to play football at this level). USA Today’s ranking of teams 1-130 ranks MU 44th, which is about right, and consistently where we are. Only 10 G5 programs ahead of us. MU has made a bowl every year, save one, since Doc got his own players in here, there are 40 bowls, 4- x 2 is 80, meaning, at worst, MU was 80th out of 130, meaning 80th out the 1000s and 1000s of schools that play football.

Marshall. In Huntington West Virginia.

MU football is punching well above its weight.

In basketball, MU is among the 353 Div. I programs. Many smaller schools, including many smaller public schools. MU’s arena is in the top 25% in size, many programs play in what can only be called gyms. Attendance is solid. Every game is on TV or internet TV. Team travels is generally by air. Conference USA in basketball is made up of programs at all levels, drug along for football purposes. A third don’t even try, another third lack the resources. MU is in a one-bid league. There are 22 one-bid leagues, more or less. Say 12 per league (don’t have time to look it up) 22 x 12. That is 264 or so one-bid teams. Out of 353, roughly 100 teams actually at the top level. And 260 ish trying to get a bid, and maybe win a game or even two.

MU has ONCE won this sorry league’s one-bid, and ONCE won ONE game in the real tournament.

MU is grossly underperforming in basketball and has been since Huck was run off. It is not just Danny, it is a 30 year history of accepting mediocrity and actually worse.

MU along with the other teams that actually try at basketball, should DOMINATE CUSA, every year. It should come down to four or five teams, every year, and it is failure for MU to not be in the group, every year.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

MU along with the other teams that actually try at football, should DOMINATE CUSA, every year. It should come down to four or five teams, every year, and it is failure for MU to not be in the group, every year.
Hey Sam - FIFY

 

[1herdfifteen]

Dan hasn’t remotely got a free pass here. From the time he was hired he was slammed. There are the same amount of people who feel Dan does nothing wrong as there are people who feel Doc does nothing wrong. I swear reading this board when it comes to talk about Dan getting a free pass is like watching a twilight zone episode. Dan has been heavily criticized every year he has been here including the year he won the CUSA tournament and a game in the NCAAs. This ridiculous notion that Doc is some unfairly criticized martyr and Dan is the Teflon Don is laughable.

On our own Herdnation board the staff other than Aaron doesn’t even comment on basketball unless it’s negative but will spend page after page defending the mediocrity that has been Marshall football during the Holiday era.

For the record I am a fan of Dan and I will always thank him for the CUSA tourney win and the game we won in the tournament. But honestly I’m sick of all the blow out losses we have had, I’m tired of him constantly recruiting Euro projects. I still don’t know why he didn’t go after some of these kids like the guy playing at WKU that could have helped the team. I don’t know why he doesn’t have better shooters on the team after we knew we were losing Burks and Elmore. Honestly I think he’s been an extremely mediocre coach but luckily for him he has a great personality and is beloved by the majority of the non message board fan base. So he will be allowed to muddle along and keep doing what he’s doing until he retires. I hate the fact we have zero expectations from either of our money sports by the Athletic Department.

Now let’s switch to Doc. First off the guy is finishing his 10th season at MU and from all indications will be back for his 11th and beyond. So to act like he hasn’t been given every opportunity in the world is ridiculous.

Lets look at what Doc has had to work with during his 10 years at Marshall. He is the highest paid head football coach by far in Marshalls history. He has had a state of the art IPF built during his tenure, a high level weight room, renovations to the facilities building, a remodel of our locker rooms that look as good as many P5 programs. Also during his tenure CUSA did a massive shakeup that saw us lose some of the top teams in the conference and have them replaced by Sunbelt, FCS and teams that have t even had a program for 10 years.

We have also had multiple seasons including this year where we didn’t play any P5s the whole year, not even bad P5s. We have also during his tenure played multiple P5s at the Joan. Something we never had during our glory years and something Snyder only had twice even with all the P5s we played during his tenure.

The ROI for this is as followed in his 10 years. One CUSA championship, 2 East division championships, multiple worst losses in the Joans history including blowout losses to G5’s. A terrible winning percentage against teams with a winning record. Only 1 year where we were in the national conversation about being one of the top G5 programs in the country which was lost by losing at home to a 500 conference mate. Even though we have had the best recruiting classes in our history, very few of Docs players make the NFL. Butts in seats at the Joan continue to go down to finally an ultra embarrassing senior day turnout. But with all that he will be back for an 11th season where is this double standard? Please show it to me. Name another school in the country that would let the HC stick around for 11 years with the above track record.

There is zero pressure from the AD office that he isn’t doing a good job. They are very content. So please tell me other than a few people on a message board show me all of this martyrdom that Doc has had to go through.

 

[1herdfifteen]

I don't need to tell you anything, you said it damn well! I hope you go to other boards with the same post, that would be refreshing.

 

[The Real SamC]

MU along with the other teams that actually try at football, should DOMINATE CUSA, every year.

Since EVERY team is trying at football, by definition, this is a correct statement. CUSA has been dominated by CUSA members that try at football, since CUSA exists for football and every team is trying it is impossible for a different result to occur.

Basketball, where a third of the members make a token effort and do not try and another third simply lack the resources to support two major sports and cannot compete, is a different story.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Yes, but anybody with a pulse goes to a bowl game. How many bowl games are there? 40, 39? Sometimes even teams with losing records go to bowl games. Doesn't matter who you beat, just get 6 wins and you're in. And the bowls that CUSA teams go to are not highly regarded, in such places as Frisco, Shreveport, Nassau. And FAU, which won the conference, literally stays home in Boca. Now, that's a real reward.

Toledo, a 6-6 team, did not make a bowl this season, and the same can be said for basketball as well.

How many post season tournaments are there now? Four I think. Something like 140-ish teams played in post season tournaments this year.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

So basically, 65% of D1 playing football schools get into a bowl of some kind and about 45% of D1 playing basketball schools can play post season if they desire.

If we miss out on either, that's just plain damn bad!

 

[The Real SamC]

How many post season tournaments are there now? Four I think. Something like 140-ish teams played in post season tournaments this year.

First choice NCAA is 68
Second choice NIT is 32
Third choice, pay to play, CBI is 16
Fourth choice, pay to play, CIT (AKA The Battle To Be 117th) is just how many ever slots they can sell. Last year was 26, been as many as 32 and as few as 20.

So lets go with 26. 68+32+16+26 = 142. There are 351 teams.

This is more than 40% of teams making the post-season. But, of course, the very top programs are never going to be in a pay-to-play, nor can the very bottom programs afford to be.

So pretty much .500 at the lower mid-major level, such as CUSA, should equal post season play. Given the steaming pile that is CUSA basketball, failing to achieve .500 every year is failure.

 

[extragreen]

Toledo, a 6-6 team, did not make a bowl this season

And they are the only qualified team not to do so.

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Given the steaming pile that is CUSA basketball, failing to achieve .500 every year is failure.

Outside of his first season (and probably this one), D'Antoni has been over .500 in both conference play and overall record. By your definition, he would not be a failure.

Spoiler

Here's a live look-in of Sam getting ready to move the goalposts:

 

[herd2believe]

“...the very top teams are never going to be in a pay to play...” Just last year WVU paid to play in the CBI. Also and it’s only my opinion, but I think the mid majors should be more receptive and even promote the pay to play tourneys. With the P5(and Big East, AAC, and maybe A10) cartel increasingly squeezing out mid majors from at large bids, not only NCAA but NIT as well, mid major teams which have had good years have no chance other than the pay for play.

 

[The Real SamC]

“...the very top teams are never going to be in a pay to play...” Just last year WVU paid to play in the CBI.

Since when is WVU a “very top team”?