So I guess you're about to tell me that you've visited both Dukes stadium since it was renovated as well as the new renovations at Mountaineer Field ?
USA Today posts NCAA School Revenues for 2015-16
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So I guess you're about to tell me that you've visited both Dukes stadium since it was renovated as well as the new renovations at Mountaineer Field ?
I have, Wallace Wade is better.
Unlike the plastic field in Mtown, WW has a grass surface that could double as a putting green. It's a beautiful sight.
Now you've put your foot in your mouth. WVU's renovations are an ongoing project and far from complete........
The question posed wasn't who will have better facilities or a better stadium in three years. It was about the current statuses of each.
I have never seen Duke's facilities, but can we try to logically argue here, wvu fan?
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I was up there this past April and had a chance to look around on a week day. Heck I don't know what's going on there just making a comparison based on what I saw. I will stick with my assessment.
Yeah it's a great place to watch a game. Plus they have the best food in college football.
I'm glad they gave you the grand tour of Mountaineer Field while you were there in the middle of the ongoing renovations. You must be a true insider.
One of my sales staff lives in Mtown and her husband is a wv fanatic. I was with him.
So they just let you walk around all over the complex with all that construction going on ? Funny, In April when I had to wait on my wife to have some medical testing done at Ruby I spent my time waiting for her by walking over to Mountaineer Field to check it out for myself but the whole place was off limits to the public because of the work being done and they let you right in. I'm calling BS.
The whole place is on a rise above all the ground around it (other than Law School Hill) and is surrounded by a chain link fence installed far enough away that you can't see anything from the outside whether or not it is in the construction area. So I'm still saying that you are trying to BS someone by claiming that you've seen it all, in fact I doubt that you've ever been to MPS at any time.
I will give you one thing - you said in another post that Dukes stadium had better food. That could very well be true. I've always said that concessions at Mountaineer Field suck big time. Low quality and overpriced.....except for Zul's. Zul's is good stuff.
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I have seen Duke's stadium and it is very nice. The deciding factor for me would be the new press box and suites. So that would give it the edge over Mountaineer Field as the better facility. But, the second phase for Mountaineer Field is renovating and enlarging the press box which will include new suites. I have no idea what it will look like. You would assume it will look similar to recent renovations at like facilities. Very expensive and I would say few years down the road.
Herd Nation - where you can debate who's stadium is better, Duke's or WVU's?
Seriously, I'm so far out on the edge of my seat its pinching my buttcheeks. Who will win?!?
Seriously, I'm so far out on the edge of my seat its pinching my buttcheeks. Who will win?!?
To try to reign this thread in some I will say that we are doing better than many of our peers IMO. Many of them are relying heavily on student fees. I know Ohio U does. The folks up in Athens are not happy about this ever increasing method of paying for sports. Recently they have announced plans to build a academic center for the 400 students atheletes. Even though most is payed for with private funds this issue is bringing to bear the frustration of charging students to under write the sports program.UNCC and ODU tap the students for around 18 million . If we were to go that route we could add another 10 million. I hope we don't/
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Back when he had a radio show in Charleston, Dave Weekly was buddied up with OU's radio guy and would have him on now and then. They were convinced that when the current ESPN deal runs out the MAC is heading for a break up. Playing on weeknights has just killed any live gate chances, and many students just don't care in the first place. ESPN certainly isn't going to pay them anything like this in the future (they have 10 more years on this deal). Many of the more northern schools in the MAC are filling with "non-traditional aged" students who are trying to get skills as the auto and steel industries slowly die, and are also getting more and more females. Telling a 35 year old ex-auto worker woman going deeply in student debt that a big chunk of her tuition is going to fund a football team that not only she, but pretty much no one, cares about, is a hard sell. Telling a taxed to death already worker that taxes are going to fund the various directional schools sports in which he or she has no interest is harder yet. If you look at the original article that started this thread, the subsidy %age at the MACers are all over 50%, with EMU topping out at over 80.
They thought that about half the MAC is willing to continue it play-pretend I-A status on other people's dime, and about half will look to go I-AA (where the MAC has always belonged) or even lower.
True, I live in Athens and have tickets. I can tell you that I am not going to a Tuesday night game when I have worked all day to sit in 35 degree weather and rain in November. On top of that watching E. Michigan is a yawn. They have about killed their base by selling out for these weekday games. They normally have 2 big gates per year. Game one when the kids return to school and on Homecoming.It is hard to build a base when you have to appeal to people to come out on a Tuesday night at 8PM. On top of that OU really needs to tap into its alumni base in Columbus and Cincinnati . That is hard to do unless they play on Saturday. I am glad we have Saturday games that I can go to.We also need to appeal to our broader geographical base which extends into the Carolinas. The only way we survive the coming crash of ESPN money in the football world is to continue to build our base with gate money and faithful alumni donars, not student fees and Tuesday night revenue.
CUSA schools badmouthing MAC schools is like making fun of your brother for coming from a poor family.
I am not bad mouthing MAC schools. They have an unsubstainable model as do some of our C-USA schools. You cannot continue to pillage students to pay for your sports teams. The ESPN gravy train is in trouble as well. All I am saying is we are in a better position to land on our feet in the next 5-10 years by not relying on student fees.
What OhioHerd said.
College is expensive.
College, in WV and elsewhere, is getting more expensive.
A lot of schools really have darn near no fanbase. Students don't care, alumni don't care, townies don't care. Nobody cares.
Colleges get more female and older every year.
A lot of state, including WV, are broke.
Marshall is a 45% subsidy according to this particular report. That is 3rd best in CUSA (Southern Miss at 37, LA Tech at 43). Some CUSA schools are upwards of 80%.
At some point, not just in the MAC, but also CUSA and all of the other G5 schools, (and yet more at lower levels) some administrators are going to see that sports, particularly football, are just not a reasonable financial deal anymore. Especially as the TV money dries up, which is has and will continue to do so.
College is expensive.
College, in WV and elsewhere, is getting more expensive.
A lot of schools really have darn near no fanbase. Students don't care, alumni don't care, townies don't care. Nobody cares.
Colleges get more female and older every year.
A lot of state, including WV, are broke.
Marshall is a 45% subsidy according to this particular report. That is 3rd best in CUSA (Southern Miss at 37, LA Tech at 43). Some CUSA schools are upwards of 80%.
At some point, not just in the MAC, but also CUSA and all of the other G5 schools, (and yet more at lower levels) some administrators are going to see that sports, particularly football, are just not a reasonable financial deal anymore. Especially as the TV money dries up, which is has and will continue to do so.
There are several schools that don't belong based on finances and program support. Greed, lax restriction by the NCAA, tv greed, has all but destroyed college football. There are programs that deserve to move up and there are programs that need to move down, problem is, other than Idaho, no program is going to willfully move down unless they have no other choice. So the bowl subdivision continues to grow ridiculously, bowl games have become redundant. Remember when going to even the lowest bowl was worth mentioning? Yeah I kinda miss those days.
A key factor for a lot of these schools is, quite frankly, their total enrollments. What are the smallest MAC schools in terms of student enrollment? I read a few years that Bowling Green had between 15,000-16,000 students and I believe Miami is in the same ballpark, perhaps a little larger. Now I know both Ohio U and Akron are well above 20,000. Imagine most of the Michigan directional schools are about the same. Believe both NIU and Ball State are also around 20,000. I read earlier this year that Kent State has around 40,000 students. About blew me away.
Yet MU struggles on trying to get beyond about 13,500. Even if those Ohio and larger MAC schools charged the same amount as MU for student "activity" or "athletic" fees, they would obviously bring in a lot more $$$$ EVERY academic year!!!
MU is going to have to significantly grow its enrollment in the next 6 to 8 years, IMO, or perhaps consider going down a Division in football. Static enrollment means that there will be little to minimal growth in the number of grads every year, meaning our alumni base will continue to fall behinds our contemporaries. Smaller alumni base from which to draw support from plus the continuing DECLINING HUNTINGTON/CABELL COUNTY population and also slowly declining state wide population does not bode well for MU's chances to grow and increase its fan base of support!!!
Put it like this, If Marshall drops a level, I'll stop being a fan. I'm sure I'm not the only one who agrees either
Actually Miami of Ohio has 25,000 students and an outstanding alumni endowment. Bowling green is in the 18000 range but has a 10 year growth plan to be at 25,000. Marshall is going the wrong direction in enrollment.
A quick google search shows the following (all rough numbers):
Western Michigan - 24,000
Eastern Michigan - 22,000
Central Michigan - 27,000
Northern Illinois - 21,000
Akron - 25,000
Bowling Green - 17,000
Kent State - 41,000
Miami, Ohio - 19,000
Ohio University - 30,000
Toledo - 21,000
Ball State - 22,000
Buffalo 31,000
Marshall - 13,000 and change
Western Michigan - 24,000
Eastern Michigan - 22,000
Central Michigan - 27,000
Northern Illinois - 21,000
Akron - 25,000
Bowling Green - 17,000
Kent State - 41,000
Miami, Ohio - 19,000
Ohio University - 30,000
Toledo - 21,000
Ball State - 22,000
Buffalo 31,000
Marshall - 13,000 and change
According to Wikipedia, the smallest MACer is BGSU at near 19K, the largest is Kent at just over 30K. (We should note that there is no standard method of determining student numbers and most schools (including us) count all sorts of branches, night schools, part-time, and what not).
WV's problem is pretty simple, IMHO. Decades ago, the state had three things:
- An awful transportation system, such that realistic access to college meant the state had to have a college in about every third county.
- About 20% more HS graduates every year.
- A law that required the state to maintain a parallel school system, including colleges, for blacks.
None of those things are true anymore. Today, anybody in WV can get to either Morgantown or Huntington, or both, in a couple of hours. Today, the number of HS graduates is lower every year than the previous, And, today Bluefield State and WV State are the two whitest "HBCUs" in the country, long ago ceasing to serve a purpose.
But the state government refuses to close colleges. In HSs we have done just that. As populations have declined, we have, and continue to, consolidate. Anybody old enough can name 10 dozen no longer in existance HSs. But Manchin/Justice cut ALL higher ed 19%. Across the board.
Why? Why not have the moral courage to CLOSE many of our no longer needed colleges? Transfer the money and students to MU and WVU, and a few smaller state colleges.
That is where the growth is for MU, and the return to a normal level of in-state students is for WVU. Rather than have 20 class D colleges and higher and higher tuition, have 5 or 6 class A colleges, including a WVU and an MU that are world class.
WV's problem is pretty simple, IMHO. Decades ago, the state had three things:
- An awful transportation system, such that realistic access to college meant the state had to have a college in about every third county.
- About 20% more HS graduates every year.
- A law that required the state to maintain a parallel school system, including colleges, for blacks.
None of those things are true anymore. Today, anybody in WV can get to either Morgantown or Huntington, or both, in a couple of hours. Today, the number of HS graduates is lower every year than the previous, And, today Bluefield State and WV State are the two whitest "HBCUs" in the country, long ago ceasing to serve a purpose.
But the state government refuses to close colleges. In HSs we have done just that. As populations have declined, we have, and continue to, consolidate. Anybody old enough can name 10 dozen no longer in existance HSs. But Manchin/Justice cut ALL higher ed 19%. Across the board.
Why? Why not have the moral courage to CLOSE many of our no longer needed colleges? Transfer the money and students to MU and WVU, and a few smaller state colleges.
That is where the growth is for MU, and the return to a normal level of in-state students is for WVU. Rather than have 20 class D colleges and higher and higher tuition, have 5 or 6 class A colleges, including a WVU and an MU that are world class.
Sorry I tried to inject a little life into your board. I will leave now and you can go back to watching the paint dry.......
Its not going to matter. Those who can afford to remain in D1 will do so, those who can not when the state funds reduce dramatically, will have to move down or even drop the sport. Its not necessarily a good thing for the G5 though, our strength right now is in what numbers we do have, if those numbers are cut by a quarter or in half, our voice becomes smaller. Just one way to look at it. In saying that, I don't agree that a program drawing 80% subsidy and is consistently dead weight with 2 fans in the stands deserves to remain at the highest level of competition. Recent D1 move ups GA Southern, Appy, ODU, CCU jury will be out for a while until more is seen and stadium expanded, immediately were better D1 programs than half of the fledging G5. That in itself should tell a story of how badly managed the sport is by the NCAA. If the attendance rule would have been enforced, this would have sorted itself out some time ago. Programs like FIU, UL Monroe etc should have never been allowed to remain in D1 much less move up.
That UConn number is incredible. With that kind of revenue they should have way better facilities and coaches in football. I wonder if their 16-17 numbers are very different. If we were generating that kind of revenue just think how good Doc's assistant coaches could be.
Thanks! That Kent State total still amazes me. Guess people, including me, don't realize how populous NE Ohio really is. Throw in that enrollment figure for Akron, and then consider other colleges are nearby, like Youngstown State, and then Cleveland State is not that far away.
BuckeyeHerd's comments on Miami probably pretty close. I think I read that school's main campus in Oxford has about 15000 or so enrollment but the school also has 3 or 4 branch locations.
I don't think it is a "massive" jump but definitely a decent increase. I seem to recall $25 million was the norm. I haven't heard, but it may be related to WVU re-evaluating donation levels for ticket priority.
As tuition costs continue to skyrocket, Marshall is fast losing it's main selling point - reasonable cost of tuition. In the past we used to be much cheaper than many colleges within a 3-4 hour drive. Now we are not, with many schools offering Metro rates or neighboring state or county rates. Marshall will have to hold tuition costs and quickly build it's enrollment in the next few years to stay ahead in the funding game. The state funding is drying up and will likely never increase again. TV money is dead and drying up. An increase in student fees would help but would never happen, students and faculty would revolt big time.
Gilbert and Hammy have their work cut out for them.
Gilbert and Hammy have their work cut out for them.
