While we are at it

[IslandHerd1]

In other threads discussing conference changes, what would you want to see for a new conference? Rules are Independent is off limits and must have minimum of 12 schools, all sports membership. I'll start and put the attendance average for schools from the 2017 season.


East:

1. Appalachian State (25,787) (NC)
2. Marshall (21,741) (WV)
3. Florida Atlantic (18,948) (FL)
4. Georgia Southern (15,258* Only 4 home games, bad storms and I believe a Hurricane altered this)
5. James Madison (21,724) (VA)
6. Middle Tenn. (15,620) (TN)
7. Old Dominion (20,118) (VA)
8. Western Kentucky (15,706) (KY)

Last team out of the east: Charlotte (11,903)

West:

1. Arkansas State (23,908) (AR)
2. Louisiana Tech (20,375) (LA)
3. North Texas (22,362) (TX)
4. Rice (19,354) (TX) (Elite Baseball)
5. Southern Miss (21,711) (MS)
6. Troy (24,456) (AL)
7. UAB (26,375) (AL)
8. UTSA (22,821) (TX)

Last team out of the west: UTEP (19,548)

16 teams, some solid attendance in football for MOST schools, 7 division games, 1 crossover game.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Not bad.

I'd just assume go N/S and rid ourselves of everything Texas. I know that's a pipe dream but it could allow for something like this:

North:
1. Appalachian State
2. Marshall
3. Charlotte
4. James Madison
5. Middle Tenn.
6. Old Dominion
7. Western Kentucky
8. Coastal Carolina or Liberty

South:
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. La Tech
4. Southern MIss
5. UAB
6. Georgia Southern
7. Troy
8. Arkansas State

Not sure what motivation the Sun Belt teams would have to join a conference like that (outside of geography) but it would make for a pretty strong G5.

 

[Herd-in-ATL]

Not bad.

I'd just assume go N/S and rid ourselves of everything Texas. I know that's a pipe dream but it could allow for something like this:

North:
1. Appalachian State
2. Marshall
3. Charlotte
4. James Madison
5. Middle Tenn.
6. Old Dominion
7. Western Kentucky
8. Coastal Carolina or Liberty

South:
1. FAU
2. FIU
3. La Tech
4. Southern MIss
5. UAB
6. Georgia Southern
7. Troy
8. Arkansas State

Not sure what motivation the Sun Belt teams would have to join a conference like that (outside of geography) but it would make for a pretty strong G5.

Ga. Southern and App State are huge rivals and might insist on begin in the same division or at least a permanent crossover much like Georgia and Auburn. I know that both schools have great respect for what Marshall has accomplished at the FBS level, using what Marshall has done as a model for their own FBS path. One school to keep an eye on is Kennesaw State here in the Atlanta suburbs. Yes they are currently FCS, but they are currently ranked #2 in the latest FCS polls, and they have deep resources to climb very quickly. They are also a Baseball power as well as very good in Men's and Women's Basketball. Current enrollment is close to 36,000.

 

[RhinoD]

Heres my take in the pipe dream world of college football...

CUSA North
1. Marshall
2. Northern Illinois
3. Western Kentucky
4. MTSU
5. Ohio U.
6. Appalachian State
7. Akron
8. Liberty

CUSA South
1. UAB
2. FAU
3. FIU
4. Charlotte
5. Southern Miss
6. Arkansas State
7. Georgia Southern
8. Troy State

Play 7 divisional game and one crossover game each year that doesn't change... Marshall could play Southern Miss, App State could play Ga. Southern, UAB could play Troy State, etc. That would build rivalries in a hurry.

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

Heres my take in the pipe dream world of college football...

CUSA North
1. Marshall
2. Northern Illinois
3. Western Kentucky
4. MTSU
5. Ohio U.
6. Appalachian State
7. Akron
8. Liberty

CUSA South
1. UAB
2. FAU
3. FIU
4. Charlotte
5. Southern Miss
6. Arkansas State
7. Georgia Southern
8. Troy State

Play 7 divisional game and one crossover game each year that doesn't change... Marshall could play Southern Miss, App State could play Ga. Southern, UAB could play Troy State, etc. That would build rivalries in a hurry.

Not bad, but I would rather have something like this, just to make travel easier, as well as bringing back old rivalries, along with maintaining existing rivalvies:

North:
Western Kentucky
Bowling Green
Toledo
Northern Illinois
Western Michigan
Marshall
Ohio U
Buffalo

South:
Middle Tennessee
Southern Miss
Appalachian State
Florida Atlantic
Georgia Southern
Arkansas State
Troy
Liberty

*My setup is also an attempt to get the better teams (in both major revenue sports), as well as weeding out the worst teams.

 

[SuperAnjario]

Why go past 10? Splits the TV money more than needed. Can still have a championship game.

 

[Surbadger]

North/South Divisions

NORTH
1. Marshall
2. Ohio (Historic Rival with MU)
3. WKU
4. MT (Historic Rival with WKU)
5. ODU
6. JMU (Historic Rival with ODU)

SOUTH
1. USM
2. UAB
3. FAU
4. App State
5. Georgia Southern
6. LT

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

North/South Divisions

NORTH
1. Marshall
2. Ohio (Historic Rival with MU)
3. WKU
4. MT (Historic Rival with WKU)
5. ODU
6. JMU (Historic Rival with ODU)

SOUTH
1. USM
2. UAB
3. FAU
4. App State
5. Georgia Southern
6. LT

This is kinda sexy.

 

[Surbadger]

This is kinda sexy.

That North Division is perfect in my opinion, but I don't know as much about rivalries with the South Division.

 

[The Real SamC]

IMHO,

- JMU. JMU certainly has the resources to go I-A. But it has made no effort at doing so. Until they do, not worth talking about.

- Liberty. I heard LU offered big $$ to get in CUSA and was shot down over their religion. If this is true, this is sad and wrong.

- I still say that when the ESPN $$ expire for the MAC, the MAC will break up, but that is not for nine more years. No body is leaving until them, however.

I would just have 10 teams, no reason to split TV money up more.

Marshall
Liberty
Appy State
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
UAB
FIU
FAU

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

Damn, I always forget about La Tech. They would definitely make my cut.

 

[Sean Hammond]

The N/S split and branching off from Texas is about the only thing that gets me excited. If they shut those Texas schools down tomorrow, I wouldn't feel any certain way. I don't like them or hate them. However, I'm not sure La tech/So Miss would want to be part of anything not involving TX...I'm not sure.

If we could get rid of the Texas schools, get a N/S split, team w/best record host football championship, and put our basketball tournament in Charlotte (where the people there don't care, so they'll never have a true home court advantage), I'd be pretty excited about CUSA again.

 

[Herdmeister]

The N/S split and branching off from Texas is about the only thing that gets me excited. If they shut those Texas schools down tomorrow, I wouldn't feel any certain way. I don't like them or hate them. However, I'm not sure La tech/So Miss would want to be part of anything not involving TX...I'm not sure.

If we could get rid of the Texas schools, get a N/S split, team w/best record host football championship, and put our basketball tournament in Charlotte (where the people there don't care, so they'll never have a true home court advantage), I'd be pretty excited about CUSA again.

The USM athletic director has made it clear he want's out of a Texas conference.

 

[Sean Hammond]

The USM athletic director has made it clear he want's out of a Texas conference.

That's music to my ears. I want us sticking with So Miss as much as possible.

 

[THUNDERGround]

I think you have to build a conference that supports both good football and basketball. Here are my thoughts (assuming the MAC isn't interested):

Marshall
Middle Tennessee
Western Kentucky
Old Dominion
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Arkansas State

Southern Mississippi
UAB
Louisiana Tech
FAU
FIU
Troy
South Alabama

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Yeah, I want the Eagles w/us - good mojo between these two schools....

 

[SuperAnjario]

Getting this done is difficult. The schools left behind aren’t going to just go die quietly. As a result, payments to leave and rights fees and things get enforced. The other issue is actually creating a new league from scratch. Have to petition the NCAA for an auto-bid. No contract with the CFP (a really big deal). Bowl games would be easy.

Because of these difficulties, a “best of the rest” is unlikley. For this to work, you almost have to use the skeletons on the SunBelt and CUSA to reorganize as two reconfigured leagues. That means including everyone. That also means we’d likely be stuck on the East with Ga State and Coastal Carolina. So, travel would be better and we’d be free of the Texas schools, but we’d also lose UAB, USM, and La Tech.

If there were a way to break free and actually cherry pick the best schools, it would be awesome. Seems difficult to make work though.

If USM, Marshall, and 3-4 other schools wanted to make it happen, I’m sure we could. Just not sure if it would make financial sense to blaze that trail. Could be without an NCAA bid for a few years and have zero access to the CFP series of games (significant revenue loss).

 

[MarshallManiac]

North/South Divisions

NORTH
1. Marshall
2. Ohio (Historic Rival with MU)
3. WKU
4. MT (Historic Rival with WKU)
5. ODU
6. JMU (Historic Rival with ODU)

SOUTH
1. USM
2. UAB
3. FAU
4. App State
5. Georgia Southern
6. LT

This may be one of the best suggestions I've seen.

 

[Herdmeister]

North/South Divisions

NORTH
1. Marshall
2. Ohio (Historic Rival with MU)
3. WKU
4. MT (Historic Rival with WKU)
5. ODU
6. JMU (Historic Rival with ODU)

SOUTH
1. USM
2. UAB
3. FAU
4. App State
5. Georgia Southern
6. LT

Looks good but there is absolutely no way Ohio leaves the MAC. What incentive do they have? To leave foes that they have competed with for decades, to travel to other states other than Ohio and Michigan? Their alumni have no interest in growth. Don't forget, they are all OSU fans first. They only went to Ohio because they could get accepted and it was cheaper or closer home.

 

[GreenDuke]

Marshall, or Marshall fans, may see Ohio as a rival but that feeling is not mutual.

 

[TeenWolfChubby]

Marshall, or Marshall fans, may see Ohio as a rival but that feeling is not mutual.

That's too bad because it should be. Geographically it make sense, culture, similar fan bases. Anyone in the Mid Ohio valley from basically Lancaster Ohio to Parkersburg, Pt. Pleasant to Huntington /Ironton would be interested in this rivalry. Having an arch rival is awesome in sports. WVU nor Marshall have one and it completely sucks for both teams. I miss playing OU and Miami Oh, I miss WVU playing Pitt and VT. I know thats the state of affairs, but it's lame.

 

[GreenDuke]

That's too bad because it should be. Geographically it make sense, culture, similar fan bases. Anyone in the Mid Ohio valley from basically Lancaster Ohio to Parkersburg, Pt. Pleasant to Huntington /Ironton would be interested in this rivalry. Having an arch rival is awesome in sports. WVU nor Marshall have one and it completely sucks for both teams. I miss playing OU and Miami Oh, I miss WVU playing Pitt and VT. I know thats the state of affairs, but it's lame.

This is just my opinion based on decades of observation and knowing many OU fans and alumni. Historically Miami has been Ohio’s rival, same conference, close proximity, and they compete in every sport for conference honors. MU’s problem with having a rival are two-fold, many years of conference jumping and not having any in-state conference mates/ rivals.
During my lifetime Marshall has been a member of 5 conferences(MAC twice plus three other) and several years as an independent after the MAC expulsion.

 

[herdalicious]

I wish I could put this thread into a time capsule and send it back to 2005. We shouldn't wonder why people are losing interest in this stuff.

 

[The Real SamC]

MU’s problem with having a rival are two-fold, many years of conference jumping and not having any in-state conference mates/ rivals.
During my lifetime Marshall has been a member of 5 conferences(MAC twice plus three other) and several years as an independent after the MAC expulsion.

Correct.

MU fans seems to consider "rivals" as "whoever was good in whichever sport was important when I was in school". Fact is not only do we change conferences every 15 years or so and are currently in one made up of schools with ONE THING in common. A desire to play football at this level. Nothing else binds any school in this league to any other.

Further, MU is always going to be the something - most (northern, southern, eastern, western) and something - ist (poor, small , large, urban, rural, smart, easy) of any conference we are in.

Rivals?

Ohio? Not really. OU is a fine school (and contrary to above comments harder to get into and more expensive than OSU) but in sports it, like most of the MAC, just goes through the motions. It seems to have sports because it is "supposed" to.

Miami? People of a certain age will always have a Ernie Salvatore fueled hate, but it is one sided. Like OU, it is just another MACer going through the mothions.

WVU? Please. While the default position of most non-alumni Spamites after yet another August or November national championship turns into yet another December Carquest Bowl or March one or two and out, is to salve their butthurt with "but Marshall ...", particularly those old enough to burn with petty jealousy over the Donnan-Pruett era, but WE DON'T PLAY EACH OTHER in any sport that matters and will probably never again do so.

Morehead State? Morehead is a fine enough state college, and I know most of their 142 fans personally. Even the 7 that don't watch Wildcats games on their cell phones while at MSU games. It takes 2 to tango, and nobody on their side cares.

WKU? Really? We never played before joining this league and when the next reshuffle has us separated again, won't again. Similar enough school to us in size, fan base, mission, and such, but so what?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Ohio? Not really. OU is a fine school (and contrary to above comments more expensive than OSU)

Extremely misleading.

Ohio's tuition is slightly lower for Ohio residents. Ohio State's tuition is significantly more expensive for out of state residents than Ohio's is for out of staters.

Ohio? Not really. OU is a fine school (and contrary to above comments harder to get into than OSU)

That's total bullshit.

Ohio's acceptance rate was 78% this year. Ohio State's acceptance rate was 47%. Overwhelmingly, Ohio accepted more applicants than OSU.

Ohio's freshman class had the composite ACT score range of 21-26. OSU's was 27-32. SAT for Ohio was 990-1200. OSU's was 1280-1410. Ohio is also well behind in top 10% and top 25% of high school class.

Why must you constantly make bullshit claims in your posts?

 

[johns_1124]

Ohio's acceptance rate was 78% this year. Ohio State's acceptance rate was 47%. Overwhelmingly, Ohio accepted more applicants than OSU.

Whats not there is the Demographics and the overall number of applicants. OSU , obviously; gets more applicants then Ohio. Take my neck of the woods. USC and UCLA have an acceptance rate of about 15-19% Unlike an institution I used to attend; LMU which is around %50, or Occidental College around 46%. Both Colleges Academia; wise, are better off then USC or UCLA as reflected in US News college ranking every year. Reason being unless your Catholic you probably have little interest in LMU and most Americans have never heard of Occidental. So they get less applicants.

 

[whf2]

Marshall, or Marshall fans, may see Ohio as a rival but that feeling is not mutual.

I know many, and they do...

 

[JudgeDD]

Whats not there is the Demographics and the overall number of applicants. OSU , obviously; gets more applicants then Ohio. Take my neck of the woods. USC and UCLA have an acceptance rate of about 15-19% Unlike an institution I used to attend LMU which is around %50, or Occidental College around 46%. Both Colleges Academia wise are better off then USC or UCLA as reflected in US News college ranking every year. Reason being unless your Catholic you probably have little interest in LMU and most Americans have never heard of Occidental. So they get less applicants.

Not the post I would have used to claim the schools you attended were better off "Academia wise."

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Not the post I would have used to claim the schools you attended were better off "Academia wise."

Jesus, I'm not even concerned about the grammar and spelling as much as I am about his attempt at logic. The poor guy doesn't even know what percentages do.

He claims that US News ranks Occidental and Marymount over UCLA and USC, but they aren't even in the same rankings. It would be like claiming Mount Union is better than Ohio State while disregarding that Mount Union is being ranked in D3 instead of FBS. Occidental and Marymount are ranked in the regional universities for the west while UCLA and USC are ranked in the national university class.

But hey, more fun:

Acceptance Rate Median SAT Median ACT GPA

USC: 13% 1360-1510 N/A 3.79
UCLA: 14% 1360-1540 31-35 3.81
OCC: 37% 1350 30 3.70
LMU: 79% 1170-1330 26-31 3.3-3.8

It's not even close. Even conceding that the bigger schools will receive more applicants from likely average students, thus driving their acceptance rate down, the test scores and GPAs for the freshman at Occidental or LMU aren't anywhere near UCLA's or USC's.

Frankly, I am surprised at the disparity between LMU's with the two big schools. LMU has a good reputation, but they clearly fall well behind UCLA and USC in academic admissions.

 

[johns_1124]

Not the post I would have used to claim the schools you attended were better off "Academia wise."

You don't now much about USC. Notorious institution who's student body
consist of those with excessive bank accounts, Academic considerations notwithstanding.

Frankly, I am surprised at the disparity between LMU's with the two big schools. LMU has a good reputation, but they clearly fall well behind UCLA and USC in academic admissions.

Exactly what I'm saying there Yagi. You are not taking into consideration the number of applicants against demographics. That's why using "blanket facts" with Admission percentages can be misleading.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

You don't now much about USC. Notorious institution who's student body
consist of those with excessive bank accounts, Academic considerations notwithstanding.

If I didn't know better, I would think this is a prank.

Is your claim that you have a legitimate degree from Loyola Marymount?

Exactly what I'm saying there Yagi. You are not taking into consideration the number of applicants against demographics. That's why using "blanket facts" with Admission percentages can be misleading.

I took it into consideration. I stated as much. None of those things factor into GPA, median SAT, and median ACT scores. By far, USC and UCLA were well ahead of LMU and Occidental.

 

[Herd Insider]

My dream conference: AAC + Marshall

 

[Herd Insider]

Forget the MAC splitting up. Will NEVER happen. Not in 9 years, not EVER. If you want to fantasize, use CUSA, Sunbelt and selected FCS teams. Anything else is a pipe dream, not a dream conference.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Nice to dream. Who at Marshall will even attempt what some of you are proposing? Hamrick? President Gilbert? They seem satisfied with the status quo.

 

[IslandHerd1]

Other Scenarios for G5:

Eastern Based Conference:

Navy
UConn
Cincinnati
Marshall
Memphis
East Carolina
Temple
La Tech
So. Miss.
Arkansas St.
Troy
Tulane
UCF
USF


Western Based Conference:

Air Force
Colorado St.
Utah St.
Hawaii
Wyoming
Fresno St.
SMU
Rice
Houston
Tulsa
UNLV
BYU
Boise St.
San Diego St.

 

[oldeherd]

Nice to dream. Who at Marshall will even attempt what some of you are proposing? Hamrick? President Gilbert? They seem satisfied with the status quo.

MU overall enrollment jumped by a 100 or so per recent info from the BOG meeting. However, this year's freshmen enrollees are slightly down. The first figure might please President Gilbert but overall I don't think he can be described as satisfied.

MU's biggest problem is the shrinking pool of high school graduates yearly in WV. MU in a tough and expensive battle to grow its out of state/non resident enrollment versus ever tougher competition. This includes the pursuit of foreign students through the INTO program and the like.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Correct oldeherd Gilbert has more concerns than us changing conferences.

 

[johns_1124]

If I didn't know better, I would think this is a prank.

Is your claim that you have a legitimate degree from Loyola Marymount?

Went to LMU for two years then transferred to Marshall because of financial constraints. Even with out of state tuition at MU it's cheaper then LMU. Although, sometimes I wish I would have acquired a secondary degree at LMU after my time in Huntington.

A prank? Obviously, you don't know the dynamics of USC. Being a native Southern Californian known many who were Trojans. What else to say about an institution who offered Paris Hilton a "Free Ride".

 

[i am herdman]

Looks good but there is absolutely no way Ohio leaves the MAC. What incentive do they have? To leave foes that they have competed with for decades, to travel to other states other than Ohio and Michigan? Their alumni have no interest in growth. Don't forget, they are all OSU fans first. They only went to Ohio because they could get accepted and it was cheaper or closer home.

That and Ohio is a really good school. Not sure where this comment comes from. Might not be OSU, but it is probably higher regarded than MU.

 

[i am herdman]

MU overall enrollment jumped by a 100 or so per recent info from the BOG meeting. However, this year's freshmen enrollees are slightly down. The first figure might please President Gilbert but overall I don't think he can be described as satisfied.

MU's biggest problem is the shrinking pool of high school graduates yearly in WV. MU in a tough and expensive battle to grow its out of state/non resident enrollment versus ever tougher competition. This includes the pursuit of foreign students through the INTO program and the like.

Tell, Dr Gilbert that Marshall is too expensive for out state students. Lots of WV natives in the Carolinas, but it is an arm and a leg to go to Marshall out of state. We looked into it a few years ago and I was like wow, I love MU, but it is not Harvard.