You never know
- Thread starter ohio herd
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Virtually any team in Frisco will have a shot. I can't think that any team there is chomping at the bit to play Marshall
Funny, I can’t think of any team afraid to play Marshall.
The way this season has gone I could see us winning the tournament or I could see us losing by 10 in the first round and going home.
Don't bet your life savings on MU being a Tourney champ. Too inconsistent, never know who will show up to play. Glad to see Beyers and Williams back in stride but Bennett should ride the pine IMO.
We are so inconsistent we could lose in the first round or make it to the finals. I just don’t see think we can win 4 in a row against anyone.
There are going to be high expectations next year. Hope they can figure out how to put it together.
There are going to be high expectations next year. Hope they can figure out how to put it together.
I didn't say that. Any team can see how well we CAN play on a given night. No way any team would prefer to play us
I agree that this is a team that does not seem to play with the same intensity from game to game. That will make it hard to succeed in a 4 game tournament. The question seems to be the value of having Iran in the line up. He obviously adds a presence in the middle that others don't. But he is foul prone and is not conditioned to play for long stretches. Beyers seems to have come alive after sitting out a few games. And Williams plays hard and rebounds. Goran may be the wild card as we move ahead. West is most valuable player when he does not try to win the game for the team. Needs to handle to ball and make assists. If open, take the shot, but quit trying to create so many drives to the basket into traffic. Let's all just hang in there with Danny and hope he can get them ready for tournament play. It has proven to be a bigger challenge than expected to move from the Elmore/Burkes era.
I cannot come up with anything correct about this statement. A team NOT AFRAID to play a team like Marshall is a team that is going to lose. Period. We are .500, with 2 losses in double digits, both of when we were in at the five minute to go mark, and five other losses all in single digits. More than competitive against everyone in the top pod, getting two wins, and two one possession losses.
These type of comments about both football and bball are baffling to me. But hey, if being negative lets you sleep at night then so be it I guess.
We can knock anyone off in a one game scenario. But this team has yet to put a collection of games together in a single span of time, which makes winning 4 games in 4 days VERY difficult.
If we want to be happy just playing spoiler with no shot at winning anything, there’s a decent chance of that happening. But I figure most Marshall fans expected this young team with high upside to gel and become a much more consistent team at this point in the season. That hasn’t happened and I don’t think it’s a problem for people to be realistic about the inconsistent product we’re getting right now.
At the end of the year they are not "young" anymore. Especially those who have been sitting out as Red Shirts or for some other reason. They have practiced every day.
You are right. We are not going. We finished won winning four of our last six games. With two of those four wins coming on the road. The two losses were a game at fau down 5 wit 5 to play and at utsa where we shot as bad as any team could shoot and lost by single digits.
love where this team is right now compared to where they could have been following that blow out home loss to Toledo.
love where this team is right now compared to where they could have been following that blow out home loss to Toledo.
I'll tell you what's been up and down this year: the fan reactions to the games. People get apocalyptic when we lose, and orgasmic when we win. I don't know how good this Marshall team is, I just know the floor in here is gross.
I can guaradamntee you ODU is not looking forward to returning to Htgn as we are starting to put a semblance of organization and execution together!! I like our chances to go 4-0....@UAB will be difficult, but a single game road trip with off days between home games is not so bad.
BTW where is that receipt Sam?? lol
Really? If you think Marshall “shot as bad as any team could,” then what do you say about a team that shot even worse than Marshall . . . and still won by 9?
There are 8 teams with a chance if they get hot, mainly because the league is good, not great, at the top... La. Tech, North Texas, WKU, Charlotte, ODU, FIU, UAB, Marshall.
That said, nothing Marshall has done all season says we are going to put together four wins in a row. Shooting has been incredibly inconsistent, post play has been even more varied and our overall lack of a go-to scorer late in games has been glaring in close contests.
Am I rooting for Marshall to make a run, absolutely. Am I expecting it, no... The most likely scenario is we go 2-2 in pod play, win a CUSA tournament game and then get beat by a better team in the second round.
My preseason prediction was 16-15 and that is pretty much who we are this year. The thing to be most optimistic about isn't Marshall's chances to win the CUSA tourney this year, but to be a much improved team the next two seasons. We "should" be a top-4 CUSA team and be in the championship conversation the next two years.
That said, nothing Marshall has done all season says we are going to put together four wins in a row. Shooting has been incredibly inconsistent, post play has been even more varied and our overall lack of a go-to scorer late in games has been glaring in close contests.
Am I rooting for Marshall to make a run, absolutely. Am I expecting it, no... The most likely scenario is we go 2-2 in pod play, win a CUSA tournament game and then get beat by a better team in the second round.
My preseason prediction was 16-15 and that is pretty much who we are this year. The thing to be most optimistic about isn't Marshall's chances to win the CUSA tourney this year, but to be a much improved team the next two seasons. We "should" be a top-4 CUSA team and be in the championship conversation the next two years.
And any opponent's goal is to prevent that from happening...and it is evident, it doesn't take much to do that.
This team (as I had said would be the 2016 MU football team equivalent) had 2 things going for it to make the season salvageable.
1. Win and prove me wrong with a stellar record and make a deep run in CUSA tournament.
2. Win CUSA tournament by getting hot at season's end.
MU blew their chance to simply win and the fact that a somewhat reassuring thing like a conference tournament win is a stretch now...meaning even winning 4 games in 4 days is not even close to a guarantee.
That shows how far behind they really are in the season and 2 is very much further than people thought.
Dude please give it a rest. We get it you think Doc has gotten screwed here at Marshall. The fact he is going into his 11th season with absolutely zero hot seat be damned he’s been viciously attacked and Dan hasn’t.
You conveniently ignore the fact that this season Dan has had several threads on this and Herdfans where he has been severely criticized by some of his biggest fans (me included). There is also a group of Dan haters just like there are Doc Haters that criticize his every move. He also has a small group again just like Doc who believe every move he makes is gold and nothing is his fault. It’s the basketball version of you, Josh and Sam.
But to say this basketball season is anything remotely like the 2016 football season is just intellectual dishonesty, and reeks of somebody that’s trying way too hard to compare Danny and Docs tenure as being equal. The 2016 football season was a complete embarrassment. The 2019-2020 basketball season hasn’t met expectations but it has not been close to an embarrassment.
You conveniently ignore the fact that this season Dan has had several threads on this and Herdfans where he has been severely criticized by some of his biggest fans (me included). There is also a group of Dan haters just like there are Doc Haters that criticize his every move. He also has a small group again just like Doc who believe every move he makes is gold and nothing is his fault. It’s the basketball version of you, Josh and Sam.
But to say this basketball season is anything remotely like the 2016 football season is just intellectual dishonesty, and reeks of somebody that’s trying way too hard to compare Danny and Docs tenure as being equal. The 2016 football season was a complete embarrassment. The 2019-2020 basketball season hasn’t met expectations but it has not been close to an embarrassment.
While I primarily agree with this, I do find it odd that we are struggling to be a .500 team just two years after our first NCAA Tourney win. Yes, I honestly thought that a win like that would prevent us from falling back to this level; would project us into at least a decade of high results in C-USA. So while not an embarrassment, it is peculiar at least IMHO.
Not that I'm ok with how this season is going, but compare it to WVU. They went further than we did in the 2018 tourney and look at what they did in 2019. But they turned it around this year. Times change. Players change. We'll be ok.
We talk a lot about expectations... And that is what some fans never grasp.
There has always been, and will always be, the camp that thinks MU should win the league championship every single year in either major sport. There has always been, and will always be, the camp that thinks anything MU does in either sport is adequate. And of course we always have the very small group of coach fan boys that will stick up for "their guy" no matter the result.
Then there is the rational middle, that look at the roster, the schedule, etc. every season and set their expectations accordingly.
Two years ago, MU made a surprise run to the NCAA tournament and won a game for the first time ever. Incredible, remember it fondly.
Last year, because essentially the entire team returned except Panava, the expectation was a similar result. It didn't happen. Young post players never developed and despite having one of the top 5 players in program history we landed in the CIT. Which we won, again for a mid-major coming off an NCAA bid that isn't the desired outcome but it was a fine year.
This year, for anyone who looked at the roster and schedule logically, was not going to be as good. MU lost the CUSA all time leading scorer and assist man, the team's second leading scorer, and sixth man/best defender. There are no seniors and a ton of minutes being played by sophomores and freshmen. Most of us picked MU to win between 15-20 games.
By the same token, it is perfectly reasonable to think MU should be much improved next season. We return everyone and we have signed two talented recruits that hopefully will be able to contribute off the bat, and the schedule will likely be a similar level of difficulty as this season.
There has always been, and will always be, the camp that thinks MU should win the league championship every single year in either major sport. There has always been, and will always be, the camp that thinks anything MU does in either sport is adequate. And of course we always have the very small group of coach fan boys that will stick up for "their guy" no matter the result.
Then there is the rational middle, that look at the roster, the schedule, etc. every season and set their expectations accordingly.
Two years ago, MU made a surprise run to the NCAA tournament and won a game for the first time ever. Incredible, remember it fondly.
Last year, because essentially the entire team returned except Panava, the expectation was a similar result. It didn't happen. Young post players never developed and despite having one of the top 5 players in program history we landed in the CIT. Which we won, again for a mid-major coming off an NCAA bid that isn't the desired outcome but it was a fine year.
This year, for anyone who looked at the roster and schedule logically, was not going to be as good. MU lost the CUSA all time leading scorer and assist man, the team's second leading scorer, and sixth man/best defender. There are no seniors and a ton of minutes being played by sophomores and freshmen. Most of us picked MU to win between 15-20 games.
By the same token, it is perfectly reasonable to think MU should be much improved next season. We return everyone and we have signed two talented recruits that hopefully will be able to contribute off the bat, and the schedule will likely be a similar level of difficulty as this season.
do you think we do a buy-in tourney to help the team get further reps and develop for next season?
Thing is, and its been my criticism of Dan, is he knew Elmore was leaving and either couldn't find anyone or nobody tried, to step up.
Given the competition, Elmore was very, very good for MU, but there are guys who can at least make the gap a little less wide with their own talent and skills.
How is it that despite having a solidly good team, they can't find consistency to win a conference in what I feel is a down year? Nobody's running with the title and everyone is beatable.
The basketball team should be better than they are.
I'm awaiting the "Fire Dan" threads before, during, and after games.
Doc got those 2 years after winning CUSA...in what was an inexcuseable and abysmal season.
Nothing about Dan.
Dan gets "criticism" with an optimistic tone at the end...as if its somehow "going to be alright."
Not the same with the other guy or sport...its the apocalypse and everyone's helpless to do anything...and there's no hope.
But if MU basketball can win CUSA in what would be a shocking finish to the season, I'll take it all back.
Its not looking good currently.
I am in no way a self-proclaimed "insider" but my guess would be that Marshall will not play in a buy-in tournament this year for two reasons... 1. Those tournaments require a team finish above .500. 2. Those tournaments only make financial sense if you are guaranteed home games, and given our record that probably would not be possible... The only exception would be if we ran off say a 5-2 or better finish to the year and the CIT wanted us back as defending champs and offered a home game.
Considering we went from league champions and getting top 25 votes in 2014 to 3-9 in 2016, the worst season I have witnessed in 40 years of watching Marshall football - yeah, Doc deserved the criticism.
We play in the worst D1 league in the country.
A problem in both sports has been development of players consistently. Doc had Cato, Dan had Elmore. As one poster said, "those two bailed out both coaches" in their best years so to speak.
Not sure about worst season in football ever, I've seen some bad MU football prior to Doc.
While basketball certainly isn't in its worst shape ever, it has by far, been a major step backward considering the prior years in its current regime.
The basketball team struggles to beat anyone for multiple reasons and several of those multiple reasons involve crap they do to themselves;
Coasting after a lead. Players looking lost. No preparedness. Fundamentals (like free throws) aren't there. Schemes just don't fit the opposition making it harder on our team, etc.
I don't even know where to start with this... Here goes.
Of course the coaches knew Elmore was leaving. Perhaps they thought Kinsey would be further along in his development (still no outside shot) or that Williams would take over the lead scorer's role (he hasn't). Both of those would be rational conclusions to draw based on last year's performances. And it's not as if the coaching staff he didn't bring in any players, Taylor is a starting guard, but he isn't ready to be "the guy."
MU is a solidly good team? Where and when? They are inexperienced and wildly inconsistent. They have moments of being solidly good, and moments of being unwatchably bad.
You feel it's a down year in CUSA?... And your correlation is that MU should win the league because of that, despite it being a down year in Huntington as well?
The basketball team should be better than they are... should be, as in your mind, as illogical as that may be... Would we all like the basketball team to be better? Absolutely, it would be fun to be in the mix for the postseason. But if you took a minute to look objectively at the basketball team this year you would see that it is performing about as expected.
And if you can't look at MU objectively, and some cant, take the opinion of people who can into consideration and remember that MU was picked to finish 11th in the preseason poll this year. The team is about where most people expected or maybe slightly ahead, if you want to base your evaluation on the current CUSA league standings.
lol you gloss over the "rational conclusions" in the coaches minds as seeing someone should be better than they are...then somehow get mad at me when I...see someone as being...better...than...they...are...
First, Im not mad at you at all... Every fanbase on the planet has guys like you... I root for the Knicks, every year I read about how the team "should" be better than they are based on nothing more than Joe in Brooklyn's feeling about the situation.
Second, there is a clear and obvious difference between projecting the development of a player (or in the case of my above hypothetical, two players) and anticipating the performance of a team as a whole... If you'd like an easier to understand example of this. I, and most people who are observers of the football program, project Isaiah Green to be a better player next year than he was last year. That does not mean the team as a whole will be better. In fact, you could make a coherent argument the team will be worse. IE tons of holes to fill and a tougher schedule.
and overall this team has been far more competitive than last year with virtually the same record. No blowout losses like TAM, Maryland, Southern Miss or UVA. Close games with Florida, ND and Northern Iowa
Lost more then just Elmore. If Taylor plays from day 1 this record looks different.
Yeah - sounding like a broken record, but you lose #1 all-time scoring leader, #5 all-time (when does that happen? Probably never has) and a really solid 6th man who could deliver on both ends. Also, as we have come to find out, 3 of the best free throw shooters (esp CJ under pressure) left also. We are definitely young & inexperienced. But (optimist kool aid being consumed) showing signs of putting some things together. I will be interested to see if DD makes a lineup change for Saturday....
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