Big 12 "exploring" adding up to 4 teams... (here we go again)
- Thread starter andy4theherd
- Start date
I'm predicting Cincy and one of the Florida schools, probably UCF. BYU won't play on Sundays, so that could hurt bowl games.
Hopefully it won't affect the game with Cincy.
Hopefully it won't affect the game with Cincy.
B12: Good analysis from today's USA Today. In a nutshell:
Boise State: Small market, remote, poor academics.
BYU: Would create another "island" team, Sunday issues in minor sports, solid national following, solid academics, history.
UCF: Is in Florida. Tiny fan base.
Cincy: Helps WVU. Basketball.
Colorado State: Second team in Colorado by far, never really has done much.
UConn: Helps WVU. Basketball. Have to buy the UConn=NYC idiocy.
Houston: Some history. Really does not bring any new viewers to the table.
Memphis: FedEx $$, middle sized TV market (I don't buy that myself, otherwise NYU would be the frontrunner), poor academics.
USF: See UCF above.
Tulane: High academics. Wealthy alumni. NOLA market. Entre to Louisiana recruits.
IMHO, we must remember the purpose of the Big 12 2.0, which is to be a Big 2, Little 8. It has not worked out that way, yet, but that remains the goal. BYU is the most upside, national following, loyal spread out alumni, wealthy, fast growing city, fast growing religion, and, really they are not that good. That is what Texas and Oklahoma want. Somebody they can beat. Then, hey, why not Tulane? Yes, no body cares about Tulane, but nobody cares about most of the other teams on that list either. The all-hat, no cattle Texas fanbase gets a trip to NOLA every year. Rather vist NOLA, or Cincinnati? Storrs? And I just do not think the Directional Floridas matter even on their own campuses. They just don't.
CUSA: IF it is just one team leaving the AAC, and especially if it is no loss whatsoever Tulane, then probably we should jump if we have the $$. If not and they lose, say Houston and Cincy, then really it is not worth the money.
In any event, while this writer deserves some dap for writing about ODU in July (in a town where ODU has about the same role as WV State has in Charleston in relevance) anybody who thinks ODU is on any short list is nuts.
Boise State: Small market, remote, poor academics.
BYU: Would create another "island" team, Sunday issues in minor sports, solid national following, solid academics, history.
UCF: Is in Florida. Tiny fan base.
Cincy: Helps WVU. Basketball.
Colorado State: Second team in Colorado by far, never really has done much.
UConn: Helps WVU. Basketball. Have to buy the UConn=NYC idiocy.
Houston: Some history. Really does not bring any new viewers to the table.
Memphis: FedEx $$, middle sized TV market (I don't buy that myself, otherwise NYU would be the frontrunner), poor academics.
USF: See UCF above.
Tulane: High academics. Wealthy alumni. NOLA market. Entre to Louisiana recruits.
IMHO, we must remember the purpose of the Big 12 2.0, which is to be a Big 2, Little 8. It has not worked out that way, yet, but that remains the goal. BYU is the most upside, national following, loyal spread out alumni, wealthy, fast growing city, fast growing religion, and, really they are not that good. That is what Texas and Oklahoma want. Somebody they can beat. Then, hey, why not Tulane? Yes, no body cares about Tulane, but nobody cares about most of the other teams on that list either. The all-hat, no cattle Texas fanbase gets a trip to NOLA every year. Rather vist NOLA, or Cincinnati? Storrs? And I just do not think the Directional Floridas matter even on their own campuses. They just don't.
CUSA: IF it is just one team leaving the AAC, and especially if it is no loss whatsoever Tulane, then probably we should jump if we have the $$. If not and they lose, say Houston and Cincy, then really it is not worth the money.
In any event, while this writer deserves some dap for writing about ODU in July (in a town where ODU has about the same role as WV State has in Charleston in relevance) anybody who thinks ODU is on any short list is nuts.
I would think if only one team leaves the AAC - Cincy - We will not be given the chance to jump. That invite will go to Southern Miss.
The B12 is expanding due to risk of imploding. The SEC would love to go in pluck Oklahoma and another team and expand their Geo footprint and TV marketing swagger. This would of course be the end of the B12 and so to expand with mid majors liked Cincy et al is the B12s only choice, or die from being cherry picked by the SEC.
I like what Houston has done and also Memphis, logistically they fit in the footprint and then to add Cincinnati and a Florida team the other D1 school in WV is back to playing the teams that made them feel great. Those are all winnable home games for them. It's a huge win for the Eerbilly nation, a whimper of survival for the B12.
So it is what it is. My question is how does this affect Marshall?
Do we now look to AAC inclusion? Do we stay CUSA? We have a great program, but we need smart moves now.
I like what Houston has done and also Memphis, logistically they fit in the footprint and then to add Cincinnati and a Florida team the other D1 school in WV is back to playing the teams that made them feel great. Those are all winnable home games for them. It's a huge win for the Eerbilly nation, a whimper of survival for the B12.
So it is what it is. My question is how does this affect Marshall?
Do we now look to AAC inclusion? Do we stay CUSA? We have a great program, but we need smart moves now.
yes, but do texas and ok want to be with all those turds? they already have wvu
My question is if we are having monetary problems then why not go back to the MAC? Obviously television can be hit and miss year after year. MAC play would certainly increase ticket sales which I can see Marshall battles with. I would think we learned our lesson once with CUSA and should try to improve our situation with local rivals and longevity versus trying to once again reach beyond our means. Just my opinion
I also predict Cincinatti is the absolute frontrunner for Big 12 expansion. The big 12 will give them the money to improve their terrible facilities
http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...up-of-five-schools-go-to-win-a-big-12-invite/
Appears the AAC commish is in a bit of a meltdown mode.
To me this is simple, the B12 had better add or get eaten by the other P5 conferences. It why the 180 on expansion happened so fast.
In short it's lets water down the B12 and make the Eerrbillys great again!
Um, no I really NEVER see Marshall back in the MAC again. Ever.
I do see a G 5 alliance as a possibility. Likewise, I do see us as a candidate for the AAC if we want to go down that path , and quite frankly we should.
Appears the AAC commish is in a bit of a meltdown mode.
To me this is simple, the B12 had better add or get eaten by the other P5 conferences. It why the 180 on expansion happened so fast.
In short it's lets water down the B12 and make the Eerrbillys great again!
Um, no I really NEVER see Marshall back in the MAC again. Ever.
I do see a G 5 alliance as a possibility. Likewise, I do see us as a candidate for the AAC if we want to go down that path , and quite frankly we should.
They were a part of C-USA for a long time....WITH THE SCHOOLS THAT NOW FORM THE AAC. The rivalries are there. And whether you want to believe it or not, they will get the vote WAY before we would.
Cincinnati just spent $86 million on upgrades to their football stadium. They also recently upgraded their basketball arena. Have you seen their baseball field? Their facilities may not be top-notch, but they are far from terrible.
Cinnci is a lock, it gives the B12 the Ahia TV market, even if UC is an also ran in Ahia. Their stadium is usually empty but still a lock. Gives eerbillys an opponent within a 1 hour flight.
UCF or USF is a lock, B12 wants a Florida presence. I'd go UCF, the Bulls still don't have a stadium.
BYU , too far away, no Saturday games, scheduling problems , NO.
Memphis , good fit. Houston good fit but will Tejas risk a loss to lowly Houston in their new stadium? Ask the eerbillys about in state away games that threaten them.....NO.
UCONN , give B12 NYC market, have their own stadium and gives eerbillys a winnable game. Lock.
UCONN Cinnnci Memphis UCF. The AAC will need 4 new teams. Marshall S Miss , who else?
UCF or USF is a lock, B12 wants a Florida presence. I'd go UCF, the Bulls still don't have a stadium.
BYU , too far away, no Saturday games, scheduling problems , NO.
Memphis , good fit. Houston good fit but will Tejas risk a loss to lowly Houston in their new stadium? Ask the eerbillys about in state away games that threaten them.....NO.
UCONN , give B12 NYC market, have their own stadium and gives eerbillys a winnable game. Lock.
UCONN Cinnnci Memphis UCF. The AAC will need 4 new teams. Marshall S Miss , who else?
A
anon_0314hp8ssprnn
Guest
So the ESPN empty suits actually signed a contract that "pays new schools the same" if the B12 expands. So they signed a contract that says $X but if the B12 adds say 4 teams, it is not the same $X now / 14 but rather $X /10 x 1.4. WIth no say in who gets picked. Wow.
As to the AAC, "AAC commish is in meltdown mode". Yep. Could not happen to a nicer guy.
As to AAC replacements, I'm sorry but if you are playing the "being in a place is the same as being relevant in a place" AAC Big Lie, then well we are in a small and dying state that is not going to get any better anytime soon. Contrasted to claiming that being in/near Nashville, San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, or even Charlotte or the Tidewater, (even Arseco is not so bold as to try to sell the snake oil that FAU/FIU = South Florida) we have no shot whatsoever. However, if you look at actual fans, both in the seats and on TV, MU probably has 40% of the total fans of the entire CUSA, with the other 60% divided 13 ways.
As to the AAC, "AAC commish is in meltdown mode". Yep. Could not happen to a nicer guy.
As to AAC replacements, I'm sorry but if you are playing the "being in a place is the same as being relevant in a place" AAC Big Lie, then well we are in a small and dying state that is not going to get any better anytime soon. Contrasted to claiming that being in/near Nashville, San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, or even Charlotte or the Tidewater, (even Arseco is not so bold as to try to sell the snake oil that FAU/FIU = South Florida) we have no shot whatsoever. However, if you look at actual fans, both in the seats and on TV, MU probably has 40% of the total fans of the entire CUSA, with the other 60% divided 13 ways.
Obviously this is subjective, for sure. Everywhere I read they say BYU is a lock. Huge Morman presence nationally. Houston seems to be getting a lot of press as is Cincinnati. I believe UC will be the top choice to satisfy wvu.
All this does is further speed up the inevitable p5/G5 split. the quicker G5 commissioners realize that and Coke together the better off we will be long term
The Texas schools will not let Houston in. End of Story.
Cincy is a lock.
UConn is just way too far away. It is only 3 hours closer to Morgantown than Ames, Iowa.
Tulane left the SEC a long time ago for a reason. They don't have the stomach for big time sports.
BYU makes a ton of sense and the No Sunday games thing is no big deal. That's not a real issue.
Cincy is a lock.
UConn is just way too far away. It is only 3 hours closer to Morgantown than Ames, Iowa.
Tulane left the SEC a long time ago for a reason. They don't have the stomach for big time sports.
BYU makes a ton of sense and the No Sunday games thing is no big deal. That's not a real issue.
Houston and Cincy are locks. the only question left is if they go with a Florida school for the media footprint...
Agreed. I dont think the Big 12 will shoot for Florida. I think they would be dumb to not pick memphis though. Kansas would want that as well as WVU.
this has nothing to do with wins, losses, history, or fans (like we learned last go 'round). adding Florida to the Big 12 Network would increase TV $$$. Texas is more concerned about $$$ than they are getting a gimme conference win in the Sunshine State every other year...
i imagine the final decision will involve a PowerPoint with a map and a list of schools. beside each school will be a "$" with more "$$$$" indicating more TV revenue. Texas and Oklahoma will make their pick and the other 8 will agree and thank them for being allowed to watch the decision.
This has to do with survival. The SEC was coming after Oklahoma , Tejas caught wind of it and agreed to expansion. Otherwise they, Tejas, are back in the SEC with Tejas A&M and hating every minute of losing to Top 3 teams of the east and west SEC year in and year out. Hard to carve out a national championship in the SEC, in the watered down B12CUSAAC it's mucho easier!!!!!
Three former CUSA schools to the B12 , make the it's 2a.m.time to take this cactus up your arse bowl champs great again!
Three former CUSA schools to the B12 , make the it's 2a.m.time to take this cactus up your arse bowl champs great again!
In my opinion after the big 12 expands either CUSA or the AAC is going to be done with. There are only so many D1 schools. They need a combination conference of the remaining schools from those two. I still blame the big 10 for all of this. Penn state started it all a long time ago. Joe Paterno was a douche then and his legacy carried on in other ways.. Bad ways
There is no way that Texas would go to the SEC.
I think Texas will look to block Houston if they can. But I think it's going to be Houston, Cincy, 1 Florida school, and my dark horse is San Diego state.
BYU will be football only and they do nothing for bball, the Sunday deal hurts them and so does their own network. I don't see BYU going.
Boise sucks academically and in everything else but football. They have no shot. AAC will go after So. Miss and ODU for that market. Marshall will only go if a third school departs which is what I think will happen. But I can see Rice also to replace the Houston market so it's no guarantee we get that invite. In the end of it all I think we stay in CUSA, Oklahoma goes to the SEC, and eventually Texas. The big 12 will be shit without those two and the conferences will continue to realign for years to come. CFB is ruining itself. In 20 years it'll be a 50 yard field, no kick offs, 7 on 7 and with flags.
I'm going to start watching lacrosse
BYU will be football only and they do nothing for bball, the Sunday deal hurts them and so does their own network. I don't see BYU going.
Boise sucks academically and in everything else but football. They have no shot. AAC will go after So. Miss and ODU for that market. Marshall will only go if a third school departs which is what I think will happen. But I can see Rice also to replace the Houston market so it's no guarantee we get that invite. In the end of it all I think we stay in CUSA, Oklahoma goes to the SEC, and eventually Texas. The big 12 will be shit without those two and the conferences will continue to realign for years to come. CFB is ruining itself. In 20 years it'll be a 50 yard field, no kick offs, 7 on 7 and with flags.
I'm going to start watching lacrosse
You cannot have it both ways.
If being in a place is the same as being significant in a place, then Cincinnati, which is "in" Ohio but ignored by 99.999999% of Ohioans, is one thing. But since the league already has four teams "in" Texas, including the one named for the place, then Houston brings nothing to the table. One way or the other. Cannot be both.
Fact is, the whole idea is predicated on the old way of doing things. A league has a channel (i.e. SEC Network) or sells games to a more broad channel (i.e. FS1) and "everybody" has to pay a high in-state rate for it. Old way of doing things. In the coming a la carte world people will buy what they want. All 40 UC fans and the couple thousand UH fans will pay (and pay more) and everybody else will be left alone. That is the way the system is going to be very soon.
Fact is the obvious choice is BYU. Solid national following. Non-alumni Mormons taught that it is "us" in a similar way as Catholics do (or at least used to) with Notre Dame. Growing state. Growing religion. And it is not that good. That is important. Texas and Oklahoma don't want any competion. And not only do they not want competition on the field, they do not want competition in recruiting, which thus excludes Houston.
So, if you accept that the Big 12 is going to go to 12, and not 14 or 22 or whatever, then that means ONE team from the AAC. UConn, Cincy, one of the directional Floridas, or Tulane. Personally, I say Tulane but, as it affects MU, that means the AAC will, a) not really lose much (or lose virtually nothing at all if it is Tulane) and b) have only one slot to fill.
So that takes us to who from CUSA to take. Again, if you buy the "in is the same as significant in" idea, we have no shot. If you go by actual fanbase size, we are far and away the only legitimate pick. Really that simple.
If being in a place is the same as being significant in a place, then Cincinnati, which is "in" Ohio but ignored by 99.999999% of Ohioans, is one thing. But since the league already has four teams "in" Texas, including the one named for the place, then Houston brings nothing to the table. One way or the other. Cannot be both.
Fact is, the whole idea is predicated on the old way of doing things. A league has a channel (i.e. SEC Network) or sells games to a more broad channel (i.e. FS1) and "everybody" has to pay a high in-state rate for it. Old way of doing things. In the coming a la carte world people will buy what they want. All 40 UC fans and the couple thousand UH fans will pay (and pay more) and everybody else will be left alone. That is the way the system is going to be very soon.
Fact is the obvious choice is BYU. Solid national following. Non-alumni Mormons taught that it is "us" in a similar way as Catholics do (or at least used to) with Notre Dame. Growing state. Growing religion. And it is not that good. That is important. Texas and Oklahoma don't want any competion. And not only do they not want competition on the field, they do not want competition in recruiting, which thus excludes Houston.
So, if you accept that the Big 12 is going to go to 12, and not 14 or 22 or whatever, then that means ONE team from the AAC. UConn, Cincy, one of the directional Floridas, or Tulane. Personally, I say Tulane but, as it affects MU, that means the AAC will, a) not really lose much (or lose virtually nothing at all if it is Tulane) and b) have only one slot to fill.
So that takes us to who from CUSA to take. Again, if you buy the "in is the same as significant in" idea, we have no shot. If you go by actual fanbase size, we are far and away the only legitimate pick. Really that simple.
After reading the reports from Texas, I'd say the odds are about 60-40 that the Big XII will expand within the next two years. Maybe 70-30. Texas was adamantly opposed to expansion, but they seem to have softened their stance considerably. At least eight schools are preparing proposals (BYU, Cin, Memphis, UConn, USF, UCF, Houston, Boise). I think two-school and four-school expansion scenarios are both in play. WVU's admin is pushing for BYU/Houston/Cincinnati/UConn in that order (E. Gordon Gee is a Mormon); WVU is opposed to the Florida schools, but WVU doesn't have much say in the matter. After starting out as front-runners, BYU and Houston's stocks are falling. Texas isn't the only school opposed to Houston. BYU's baggage (BYU network, no Sunday play or travel, another private school, Pacific time zone, etc.) seems to be turning off the Big XII more and more.
I think Cincinnati is a lock if expansion occurs. The other slots will depend on which school(s) want to sell their soul(s) for the lowest price. UCF and USF seem to be more desperate than the others, so they just might whore their way in; they are both huge schools in attractive TV markets. If I had to guess right now, I'd say it will be UCin, UConn, Memphis, and UCF (although USF's bargain basement offer might trump Memphis). Boise is wasting their time; they have zero support.
I think Cincinnati is a lock if expansion occurs. The other slots will depend on which school(s) want to sell their soul(s) for the lowest price. UCF and USF seem to be more desperate than the others, so they just might whore their way in; they are both huge schools in attractive TV markets. If I had to guess right now, I'd say it will be UCin, UConn, Memphis, and UCF (although USF's bargain basement offer might trump Memphis). Boise is wasting their time; they have zero support.
Cincy is definitely the frontrunner. After that it's a coin flip between byu and Houston for number 2
Bottom line is this, the B12CUSAAC isn't going to be the SEC, the ACC the PAC 12 or even the B10. It's going to be a strong AAC with 2 powerhouses and 3 decent teams one on double secret probation. Decent conference but not worthy of a automatic bid to the final playoff.
Here's my problem with it. They are positioning themselves as an SEC ACC etc, but their SOS will be laughable compared to the other P5 conferences and the path they must take to get into the BCS playoff. They will,be much fresher and less beat up than any Top 3 of all other P5s, which gives them a huge advantage going into post season. Not fair, I'd suggest they not be allowed into the BCS unless undefeated with wins by huge margins, and be forced to play an OOC v a Top SEC school intra season away to prove their inclusion to the BCS.
TCU is a powerhouse until they play LSU or Alabama.
Here's my problem with it. They are positioning themselves as an SEC ACC etc, but their SOS will be laughable compared to the other P5 conferences and the path they must take to get into the BCS playoff. They will,be much fresher and less beat up than any Top 3 of all other P5s, which gives them a huge advantage going into post season. Not fair, I'd suggest they not be allowed into the BCS unless undefeated with wins by huge margins, and be forced to play an OOC v a Top SEC school intra season away to prove their inclusion to the BCS.
TCU is a powerhouse until they play LSU or Alabama.
The BcS is dead, it is the "college football playoff" but other than that nitpick, you are 100% correct.
But remember, this is exactly what Texas and Oklahoma wanted. When they created the Big 12 2.0, the goal was to create a system where, in addition to the TV money deal where they get far more than the others, a system where they fattened up on cupcakes and settled the conference 9 years out of 10 between themselves. Now, it has not worked out that way, for reasons we need no go into here, but that was, and remains the goal.
And the old BcS and the old Leastlefovers conference is totally illistrative of what may happen to this Big 2, Little 8 (or Little 10, or Little howmanyever) conference. IF, and this is likely, things do normalize and we see Texas or Oklahoma win the pillow fight every year, and IF we see the winner either passed over because the four ligitimate leauges have better, or they just get assreamed in the semi-finals when they do make it. And IF, and this is even more likely, we start to see TAMU pick who it wants in Texas, because the best want to test themselves agains the best and the best all play in the Greatest Conference In The History Of The World. In short is those of us who understand football start to talk about the Big 12 the same way we understood and talk about the old BcS, which is there were the true majors, then this Leastleftovers which did not belong and was a step below and really closer to the mid-majors, well then, Plan B for Texas and Oklahoma is to man-up and join one of the four legitimate true major conferences.
It will happen. Because nobody being discussed in this thread is anyting but another cupcake.
I think you're allowing your hatred for WVU to cloud your judgement regarding the Big 12 and its' place in college football.
Mwc will pluck Texas schools from cusa. Cusa will cease to exist and 4 16 team regional conf will Coke into existence. There will be a true playoff. G5/p5 will officially split
Um, no I think your love of wvu is clouding your judgment on the B12CUSAAC and its place in college football.
