Religion: ain't it grand
- Thread starter riflearm2
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I think a person needs to approach religion the way we do sports. Know deep down that it doesn't really matter, but somehow fool yourself into getting caught up in it.
Championships, God, Heaven, what does all that mean in the grand scheme? Absolutely nothing really. You can have clothes on your back, a roof over your head and food to eat without ever winning any championships or without religion.
But it's just such a boring life. That's what all this sports and religion stuff is. Made up stuff to keep us from just going crazy. Life is really way too easy for us now. The necessities are in the bag. We're just trying to figure out how to put all this icing on the cake.
Championships, God, Heaven, what does all that mean in the grand scheme? Absolutely nothing really. You can have clothes on your back, a roof over your head and food to eat without ever winning any championships or without religion.
But it's just such a boring life. That's what all this sports and religion stuff is. Made up stuff to keep us from just going crazy. Life is really way too easy for us now. The necessities are in the bag. We're just trying to figure out how to put all this icing on the cake.
To the best of my knowledge, no one who hasn't heard of God has ever been sent to hell. Nor will they. I've told you this before.
Romans 4:15...for where no law is, there is no transgression.
For those who are willingly ignorant.......no mulligans.
Romans 4:15...for where no law is, there is no transgression.
For those who are willingly ignorant.......no mulligans.
Well where do they go? They can't go to heaven because they haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior.
Well, if there's no law, and without law there is no sin, and there's only 2 places you can go, I'd say they're in good shape, wouldn't you?
Ah, a loophole! Nice. It kinda makes missionary work borderline psychopathic, huh? "You've never heard of Jesus, and therefore will go to heaven, so let me introduce you to him and give you the ability to earn yourself an eternity of suffering for not believing a random stranger's version of the origins of the universe."
Can you seriously not look at that objectively and see how idiotic it sounds?
I sure can look at it objectively, but I don't see it idiotic. What you seem to fail to understand is that there
is joy is serving God. It's not some grievous burden. Those who hear about it have the same decision to make in Africa
as we do hear in the U S., and they can accept it or reject it. Same choice. To deny people in Africa that choice is not
what we're supposed to do.
I've said it before on here and will again. I'm on the fence when it comes to Christianity. like murox, I think, I was brought up in a bible thumping Pentecostal church. witnessed crazy things over the course of my childhood, yet here I am today wondering, like some ITT, how this God could allow [true story follows] one of the most nice/friendly/humble women I've met who has been a Christian pretty much her entire life, a pillar in the church I attended as a kid up through my early 20's, at 83 years old, find out she is eaten completely up with cancer. ovaries, lungs, lymph nodes, hip, you name it, she possibly has cancer in it. just found out within the past few days. what a shitty sense of humor God must have to allow this to happen to someone that's followed him their entire adult life.
on the flip side, I want nothing to do with the apparent contempt and hatred that runs through the veins of atheists. ITT, they curse and raise holy hell (no pun intended) about Christians spreading the word of god to other civilizations, all the while sitting on their asses doing nothing to help these 3rd world countries, themselves. I honestly believe, based on ramblings read on this board and on rivals mainboard, that atheists are generally the most unhappy overall group of individuals I've encountered in life.
short of it, I'm not sure all of you aren't batshit crazy.
on the flip side, I want nothing to do with the apparent contempt and hatred that runs through the veins of atheists. ITT, they curse and raise holy hell (no pun intended) about Christians spreading the word of god to other civilizations, all the while sitting on their asses doing nothing to help these 3rd world countries, themselves. I honestly believe, based on ramblings read on this board and on rivals mainboard, that atheists are generally the most unhappy overall group of individuals I've encountered in life.
short of it, I'm not sure all of you aren't batshit crazy.
And there is no qualifying test for what is considered hearing about your God, right, extraterrestrial?
So, somebody who looks and sounds like jethro could go to Tristan da Cunha, an island of 200 that is 1700 miles from South Africa. Jethro could then tell them stories in the bible (select the most asinine) and expect them to convert from what they have believed and followed for generations or else they are going to hell.
As murox said, psychopathic on the part of missionaries.
Missionaries, for the most part, are scum. They don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. They do it in a manipulative way to grow their religion.
So, somebody who looks and sounds like jethro could go to Tristan da Cunha, an island of 200 that is 1700 miles from South Africa. Jethro could then tell them stories in the bible (select the most asinine) and expect them to convert from what they have believed and followed for generations or else they are going to hell.
As murox said, psychopathic on the part of missionaries.
Missionaries, for the most part, are scum. They don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. They do it in a manipulative way to grow their religion.
Would you rather the fine lady burn to death, be decapitated, killed in a car crash, shot through the head, live as a quadripilegic? We don't get to choose the death we want. And God doesn't draw straws to see if we get to die in our sleep peaceably. Maybe you could ask her what she thinks about her lot? I'd be interested in her view of the matter. Ask her if she had it to do over again, would she serve God?
There probably is a qualifier. I don't pretend to know what it is. I'm pretty sure spreading the gospel in a language that's not understood by the hearer would be one nonqualifier.
I've seen the exact opposite. Atheists tend to be the happiest and most comfortable with their place in life. They don't live their lives based on a set of ancient, outdated rules that require them to be against some of their loved ones. They are able to decide right vs. wrong on their own without the guilt of deciding between following their religion or doing what their heart tells them is right.
And you don't hear about atheists helping for many reasons, including the one I already explained. Atheists don't broadcast their beliefs, set up gofundme pages to allow them to blackmail the third-world citizens they are going to convert while claiming they are just trying to help, etc.
Hell, I have a dozen or so Easter/gift baskets sitting in my living room right now. After Easter, I bought two walmarts out of all of their remaining gift/Easter baskets simply to give to children I saw in poor neighborhoods. I've distributed about 20 of them so far, but have a bunch still left. I'm not comfortable passing them out from my car by myself, as it raises red flags that I'm trying to get young kids to approach my car, so I wait until a female friend comes along.
Of course, you wouldn't know that because I don't post it on Facebook/Instagram with hashtags talking about God, I don't ask for donations to a gofundme page where I misrepresent my intentions, and I don't do good deeds based on what a God tells me to in order to give me a better reward at the end of this life. That would be pretty fvcking selfish of me to do, which would make me a Christian.
But, there's no law about that qualifier. What do you do now?
The ultimate cop-out is coming up. I'm ready, spew the line:
I don't understand what you're saying. Explain, so I can come up with the ultimate cop-out.
There are no "mere sinners". You think I think I'm somehow sinless? I sin daily, every single day SINCE I became a Christian, not just before. You do too, so does every other adult human with a reasonably sound mind able to know right from wrong. You think I didn't have some of your points of view before I became a Christian? Ha. I questioned pretty much everything. And no one could answer many of my questions to my satisfaction. Neither can I answer yours to your satisfaction. I realize that when I'm talking to someone who isn't a Christian. I've been there. But I will tell you this, God loves you as much as he does any Christian. Of that I'm sure.
Ahh! There it is, right on cue. When there is no logic or reasonable explanation, just rely on that.
And this whole "every single person sins every day" thing is despicable. It's a way to control people.
If God created us to all sin so much, and we are going to win every day no matter how hard we try not to, then fvck it. Just go out and sin and stop worrying about doing it. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If I wake up, immediately start my day spreading the word of Jesus for 12 hours in a row, don't have any bad or sinful thoughts, then go to bed, how is that sinning?
Sorry, logic and faith are simply not the same thing. "Every single person sins every day" is the truth. What is sin? It's not just doing bad things, its this:James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
That is a ridiculous statement. First, you have no idea what the motivation is for each and every person doing mission work. To lump all mission workers together and say they are doing it to perpetuate an agenda is incredibly lazy and ignorant. Second, you assume - because of your beliefs - that actions taken by those who believe differently stem from improper intentions. To the Christian in the field, many are certainly doing these things out of the goodness of their heart, which includes spreading Christ's teachings. Just because you think otherwise doesn't make it so. Third, missionaries have done a lot of good to make life better for people in many third world countries, regardless of their beliefs. Try telling this garbage to the kid in the Congo who's village just got a new well for clean water and a school from mission work.
of course it isnt. where did i ever say otherwise?
that is my entire point. there is no logic behind it, so when backed in a corner, the faith mantra is the ultimate cop-out your kind always has to fall back on.
no, it isnt. all christian missionaries (which may seem redundant to you) have the exact same agenda or else they wouldnt need to make it a mission endeavor. they use their good deeds as a veil to further their true agenda which is to spread the word.
i agree. the psychotic lunatic tripping on bath salts truly thinks the harmless woman he is defacing with a knife is really an alien trying to kill humans. he has proper intentions in his mind at the time. it doesnt make it right.
likewise, manipulating people in those countries into changing their beliefs just because missionaries have the means to provide tangible, unrelated benefits to them is an atrocious act. how you cannot see the strong, underlying unethical nature of that is bewildering.
missionaries are taking advantage of their better living situation to persuade others out of beliefs and followings they have had for generations. their belief in another god is not what has led them to being poor, having little access to water, etc.
if you want to go do good deeds, great. but, dont abuse the luck we have had being born in the western world to manipulate others into changing their beliefs and pretend it somehow will lead them to a better living situation. the belief in the god they have had for hundreds of years or in jesus christ will not change their situation.
see how many missions continue in towns where they wont let the missionaries build a church, spread the word about jesus, and try to convert the poor. if those things arent allowed, there wont be any more missions. hence, they arent doing the deeds out of the goodness of their hearts.
Romans 1: 19-20
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[a] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
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Revelations 5: 9
9And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
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19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[a] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
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Revelations 5: 9
9And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
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And you always attempt to play the logic card. I consider it entirely illogical to believe there is no God. Where is the logic that human life came from the absence of life? Where is the logic that it just so happened that there is male and female? To not believe in a God requires a huge leap of faith, and is illogical.
Either way, it is predestined that everyone's mind has been made up on this by now and there's no changing it.
You can try to change it. I have a few times. Believing in God would be nice, but I can't believe something I can never see. It's about like my relatives now. Haven't seen them since Christmas. They really might as well be strangers. I'm more familiar with coworkers at this point.
To believe that someone I've never even seen on TV or on the sports page has all this control? There's just no way. Religion is a nice set of rules. Good values. The people mean well, but to me it's about like liberalism. Head in the clouds fakeness.
You can try to change it. I have a few times. Believing in God would be nice, but I can't believe something I can never see. It's about like my relatives now. Haven't seen them since Christmas. They really might as well be strangers. I'm more familiar with coworkers at this point.
To believe that someone I've never even seen on TV or on the sports page has all this control? There's just no way. Religion is a nice set of rules. Good values. The people mean well, but to me it's about like liberalism. Head in the clouds fakeness.
I can see proof of it though. I believe wifi exists, but not God.
That's not what I want. It doesn't bring a smile to my face to say that. I'm not happy about no God. I'm stuck here in a life where somehow I've succeeded, yet there's really nobody to even tell it to. No friends, no family.
It would be nice to sit on a rock at the end of the day and tell it all to God, but he's not there. Nobody's listening. This is it. I guess life will be OK and I no longer feel urges to end it, but it still feels hollow a lot of times.
Maybe someday it won't. I've come a long way from the worst of it, but of course there's no guarantee of more progression.
That's not what I want. It doesn't bring a smile to my face to say that. I'm not happy about no God. I'm stuck here in a life where somehow I've succeeded, yet there's really nobody to even tell it to. No friends, no family.
It would be nice to sit on a rock at the end of the day and tell it all to God, but he's not there. Nobody's listening. This is it. I guess life will be OK and I no longer feel urges to end it, but it still feels hollow a lot of times.
Maybe someday it won't. I've come a long way from the worst of it, but of course there's no guarantee of more progression.
I'm not sure where you're going with this argument, bc...
If I turn off the wireless connection, wifi is no more.
If I turn on the wireless connection, wifi is back.
I have just proved the existence of wifi, even though you can't see it.
To the best of my understanding, the only time God listens to non Christians is when they are seeking to serve him.
See, that is pure greatness. Life that way would be wonderful. I'm not sure how to get there from my selfish standpoint. I'm selfish as can be. Doing the best I can for my own comfort, for my own happiness.
Of course I've tried to please others, but only for selfish reasons. If I could really convince myself that it was all about them and that I don't count or matter, then all would be great.
Maybe someday. If things keep going this way, I'll be forced into it. I think life probably forces most people into it if they live long enough. How can you go 50 or 60 years this way?
Of course I've tried to please others, but only for selfish reasons. If I could really convince myself that it was all about them and that I don't count or matter, then all would be great.
Maybe someday. If things keep going this way, I'll be forced into it. I think life probably forces most people into it if they live long enough. How can you go 50 or 60 years this way?
Really??? You are better than this argument. That is a terrible comparison. It's as bad as my dog/gender hypothetical.
kudos on the easter baskets, good idea not passing them out from your car. LOL!
it just seems to me that atheists go completely out of their way to discount a God they don't believe in. hell, look at your post here: you wrote x # of words doing just that. look at this thread. I've read posts like this repetitively over the years and for what? why?
not trying to be a smartass, but save your argument for someone you need to convince, if that's what you're attempting. as I've stated, I'm on the fence. hell, some of your posts in the past on this board have contributed to me finding myself where I'm at in life. I do have serious issues with an all knowing, all controlling God that allows horrible things to happen to those who follow him with all their being. all the same, I just can't understand why atheists like you spew the vitriol you do towards Christians: it's their life, let them live it, they're not hurting you. If they're wrong, they're wrong. saying that always brings me back to, "but what if they're right?"
as for Christians doing things for ulterior motives, I don't doubt that. but I also know there are those that do things for others for the same reason you do, self gratification and to be nice. and, if there is a God, why would it be so selfish for someone to do good deeds in order to have a reward at the end of this life?
something else that blows my mind about Christianity (not necessarily a question for rifle): how many denominations are there and which denomination is the lucky one? i was taught that catholics (and pretty much every other denomination, for that matter) would burn in hell because they believed different than we did. also, am i to believe that someone that isn't a Christian, may be an atheist, or whatever, who lives a good life, does great things for others, just an all around great person, is going to be damned to the depths of hell full of torment because they didn't take Christ as their savior?
I think it's jealousy of the bliss. Those who truly believe and can fully live a Christian life seem like the happiest people on earth.
Is that only for the duped? Why can't we, the people who see this ruse for what it is, somehow create our own bliss and be just as if not happier than the duped?
We've seen the woman stories he posts. They've been great, but there's no way a person is happy being so mad and angry all the time. Anger is not a positive emotion. It's stressful and taxing.
Depends on whether you understand, and believe, what the Bible says. If you don't believe what the Bible says, the question won't be answered in this life. If you believe the Bible, the answer to your question is in there. If you believe what the Bible says, that Christ came, suffered, and died for us as the ultimate sacrifice, do you think he did that so you could just live your life like you always have, or do you think he expects you to honor him by doing the things he asked you to do, and allows you to make that choice. The Bible makes some things very clear.
Acts 4
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
There are many people STILL trying to set at nought that same stone, Jesus Christ.
green, are you of the denomination which believes the unsaved will live a life of eternal torment in hell, or are you of the believe that after this life, there's a second death and those who are unsaved just don't get the benefit of living an eternal life in heaven? I've heard it argued both ways. it's quite amazing how two people can interpret biblical passages in totally differing ways. Apparently, the scripture isn't quite as transparent as you say.
Yeah, here's the real payoff of religion. Never having to face being proven wrong. If you're right, then the great reward in heaven will be yours. If you're not, well you still lived a nice life if you're a true believer and you are simply in a state of peaceful oblivion forever.
There's no postgame press conference. Nobody can rub it in that you got taken. Really, if you can follow all those rules on how to live then you probably had a better life than anybody you knew.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
who is mad and angry? there is a huge difference between not being satisfied compared with mad and angry. i think the overwhelming majority of people would be satisfied in my shoes. i wake up anywhere between 6:45 am - 8 am every morning (by choice). i read my phone/ipad (a few newspapers, this board, espn, football sites, facebook) in bed for about an hour while watching waves crash, the sun rise, and dolphins frolic in the surf. i then get up, eat, transport myself to my couch to read my phone and listen to television while seeing the ocean in the background. around 10, i start getting ready for my first workout of the day; anywhere from 8 - 15 miles on the beach where i run and walk just feet from the water. i can go one of two directions; towards daytona where the tourists and bikinis are or towards ponce inlet where ill see some locals and then have stretches up to a mile long where there wont be anyone on the beach. sometimes, when going that way, ill stop and eat in a rocking chair at a good grill on my way back.
ill arrive back anywhere from 2-3 hours later. i then eat something and head down to spend 10 minutes with the "women's club" which are some elderly women who meet everyday for an hour in a social room . . . one just turned 93 yesterday. they are a good mix of classy, wealthy women who live here as a second home sprinkled in with a few who just dont care anymore at their age and cuss like sailors.
i then spend some more time on the computer, watch television, and head downstairs to the gym to lift. in the early evening, i usually walk to the grocery store to have them prepare me dinner or grab some fresh produce. a few nights a week, i head to orlando/jacksonville/tampa for concerts/shopping, and the other nights i watch tv until i get tired around 10, wherein i retire to a bedroom to sleep around 11. the girls who visit are some of the best quality i have had. the ass on the one coming to the beach tomorrow is lethal.
within the last 72 hours, four cookman players were signed to NFL deals. another signed with a CFL team. even though all four of the NFL guys played on defense (cookman returns 10 starters on offense, including both QBs), two of them called to let me know and thank me.
hours ago, my attorneys called with a settlement offer when they were meeting with the defense attorneys. this may be the only "mad" part of my life. im out for blood, which has and will continue to spill. i laughed at the offer. my attorney called back to tell me one of the others involved has agreed to settle. the defendants made a higher offer, which i also laughed at. the offers were probably at least half of what the average annual salary is on this board.
i live a vacation lifestyle and would have no need to change it if not for the flaw in my personality of never being satisfied. but, definitely not mad.
wv-fan stated that it is a waste to discuss religion on here like i do. i disagree. ive seen posters on here change how they act about religion over the last dozen years. ive seen people who either were believers or were skeptical come out completely against religion. i like to think i helped that along a little. ive seen the same from people's stances on gays on here.
wv-fan claimed i should let them live their life as their beliefs do not hurt me. that is the problem- they do. they stunt mankind. they have done it for hundreds of years. you dont think actively fighting against stem-cell research doesnt hurt you and me? that's crazy. it most definitely does.
