Religion: ain't it grand

[Walden Pond]

there is a huge difference between not being satisfied compared with mad and angry

Either way, the truly blissful Christians at least seem to go about their lives as if they don't have any of this. They either hide it all very well or somehow they've bought into this whole God thing all the way.

I'll admit I'm envious of that. I want this thing resolved. I've done all this stuff to become something, but there's this emptiness about it. This is it? This is all? I could have done all this with McDonald's money. The real luxury at this point is the job itself, not anything I can buy with the money. Most of that seems like a dumb waste.

 

[extragreen]

Let's take a look at what a person really is, of and by themselves (spiritually speaking)
Wretched, unholy, unrighteous, foolish, weak, needy, blind, lost, deaf. And without God, having no life, no breath, no being. Bottom line....without God, we simply are not.

With the above in mind, why shouldn't a Christian be happy, seeing that God, not us, has changed the above conditions in us to:royalty, holy, righteous, wise, strong, rich, seeing, found, hearing. Plenty to be happy about.

 

[Walden Pond]

What do you do all day with that? I honestly believe my biggest problem is not enough stuff to fill an entire day. I have developed elaborate routines, distractions, that consume a large portion of the day.

But not all of it. Not everyday. And not during the night. That time needs filled with something other than "I'm wasting my life," "I can't believe I went to all that college for this," "I'm living my life in exile from my old hick home that I'm not even allowed to go back to anymore," etc.

 

[extragreen]

I don't have to "do" anything with it. I just try to enjoy it and be thankful.

 

[murox]

Let's take a look at what a person really is, of and by themselves (spiritually speaking)
Wretched, unholy, unrighteous, foolish, weak, needy, blind, lost, deaf. And without God, having no life, no breath, no being. Bottom line....without God, we simply are not.

With the above in mind, why shouldn't a Christian be happy, seeing that God, not us, has changed the above conditions in us to:royalty, holy, righteous, wise, strong, rich, seeing, found, hearing. Plenty to be happy about.

What a crock of shit. The non-religious are both wealthier and more intelligent than the religious. It's been proven in many studies. Why does god hate his believers?

 

[extragreen]

What a crock of shit. The non-religious are both wealthier and more intelligent than the religious. It's been proven in many studies. Why does god hate his believers?

What does that have to do with anything I said?

 

[WV-FAN]

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

below is the rest of the passage. so, looks to me like someone like rifle may just make it to heaven, afterall, which is my point above: how can someone who lives their life being a good person, helping others, albeit not a Christian, be cast "into everlasting fire"?


37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’AB)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24049AB">

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me,AC)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24050AC"> you who are cursed, into the eternal fireAD)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24050AD"> prepared for the devil and his angels.AE)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24050AE"> 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’AF)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24054AF">

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.AG)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24055AG">”AH)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-24055AH">

 

[extragreen]

Nope. You're trying to obtain heaven by works. We are not justified by works, we are justified by.....faith. Because it is impossible to please God without faith. And you cannot obtain righteousness without faith in ....Jesus Christ. The "righteous" in verse 37 in your last post is talking about those who have obtained righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Sad I missed this thread...

(not)

 

[riflearm2]

Let's take a look at what a person really is, of and by themselves (spiritually speaking)
Wretched, unholy, unrighteous, foolish, weak, needy, blind, lost, deaf.

That's the dumbest thing I have read since I finished the dianetics comic book.

Non-believers are weak? That's completely opposite. It takes a mentally and morally stronger person to realize there is no glorious afterlife, realize they will never see loved ones who have died ever again, and realize they will neither be punished or rewarded in an afterlife for their work on earth.

During tough times, it is comforting to be able to have a belief that a higher power will eventually guide you through the storm. But, that is a crutch for the weak-minded. Atheists knowing that there is no help and things might not necessarily get better calls for a far stronger person.

Needy? Again, it's the exact opposite. Atheists don't need a belief in anyone else or outside support. They are independent enough to handle things on their own without relying on a higher power and praying/hoping things will change. Non-believers make the change themselves.

And deaf, possibly the best one. Non-believers have and are willing to listen to anything. They are open-minded. They have no set blueprint of what or how they have to believe. Christians, and believers of the other major religions, can't listen to anything but their own religious text. They cannot have open minds. There is only one right, only one way, and only one explanation, regardless of how many times science has disproved it. They cannot listen to others. They are truly the death.

You're a clown, extraterrestrial, and this is some of your best material yet.

 

[Walden Pond]

I just try to enjoy it and be thankful.

How?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I won the game. Got a nice job and money. It's good. How in the world do I go about enjoying it and being thankful?

I think the problem is there are too many ways and I can't decide on one. All the stuff I wanted when I was 20 is out. That was all based on a hick life and having hick friends and relatives to join in the fun. That just isn't going to work out now.

 

[GK4Herd]

I'm glad I made the decision to sit this one out.

 

[big_country90]

I admit that my views as a 20 year old aren't what they are now, as a 34 year old. That's why this topic is so conflicting for me...as are several other topics.

I still believe in God. I think the notion that our universe exists, with the help of a higher power, is easier to believe than believing that it all just kinda happened on its own over time. It's far too detailed and complex for that to be true, IMO.

That said, there are things that murox and Riflearm say that do make a lot of sense, and have honestly forced me into a corner when it comes to my belief system. I won't go into details but there are plenty of things I question and scratch my head on that I simply accepted as true 15 years ago. The turmoil comes now with raising my son and how I teach him.

I'm very conflicted and it really hurts me to my core.

 

[WV-FAN]

I admit that my views as a 20 year old aren't what they are now, as a 34 year old. That's why this topic is so conflicting for me...as are several other topics.

I still believe in God. I think the notion that our universe exists, with the help of a higher power, is easier to believe than believing that it all just kinda happened on its own over time. It's far too detailed and complex for that to be true, IMO.

That said, there are things that murox and Riflearm say that do make a lot of sense, and have honestly forced me into a corner when it comes to my belief system. I won't go into details but there are plenty of things I question and scratch my head on that I simply accepted as true 15 years ago. The turmoil comes now with raising my son and how I teach him.

I'm very conflicted and it really hurts me to my core.

+1 on both bold statements.

one of my biggest issues is my mom. absolutely the nicest, most humble, great all around Christian person I've ever met. I've never heard her curse, never witnessed her wrong anybody, have only heard her raise her voice to someone outside of myself and siblings once in my life, and that was at an administrator for trying to suspend me from school when she didn't think i deserved it (i probably did). "saved, sanctified, and filled with the holy spirit". has been since prior to my birth, i believe. how in the world she could fake the things I've witnessed while "in the spirit" totally baffles me. should couldn't. she wouldn't. she told me several years ago that God made a promise to her that all three of her children would be saved and meet her in heaven some day.

but, there's many issues that I have after thinking rather than just accepting.

my kids both attend church on sunday mornings with their mom, and i go from time to time. i try not to push them in one direction or the other, try to get them to think for themselves and make their own decisions, and i try to set a good example as far as treating others with respect and being a good all around person.

 

[murox]

I admit that my views as a 20 year old aren't what they are now, as a 34 year old. That's why this topic is so conflicting for me...as are several other topics.

I still believe in God. I think the notion that our universe exists, with the help of a higher power, is easier to believe than believing that it all just kinda happened on its own over time. It's far too detailed and complex for that to be true, IMO.

That said, there are things that murox and Riflearm say that do make a lot of sense, and have honestly forced me into a corner when it comes to my belief system. I won't go into details but there are plenty of things I question and scratch my head on that I simply accepted as true 15 years ago. The turmoil comes now with raising my son and how I teach him.

I'm very conflicted and it really hurts me to my core.

I'm certainly no authority on how to raise children, so I'll leave that one alone. But it's pretty noble to admit your position has evolved over the years. Nothing wrong with that at all; mine did too. Props for your honesty.

 

[big_country90]

Well...I take this board as a safe place to be open and honest. The 'cigar lounge' as rifle put it. The reality is that I simply don't know what to believe in certain instances or to what degree to accept something as fact. It's extremely difficult for me to even type that. I fall under the category of " I dont know" on a lot of issues now. And I could never have these conversations with, say, my parents for instance. But I do value differing opinions more than I ever have in the past.

 

[extragreen]

That's the dumbest thing I have read since I finished the dianetics comic book.

Non-believers are weak? That's completely opposite. It takes a mentally and morally stronger person to realize there is no glorious afterlife, realize they will never see loved ones who have died ever again, and realize they will neither be punished or rewarded in an afterlife for their work on earth.

During tough times, it is comforting to be able to have a belief that a higher power will eventually guide you through the storm. But, that is a crutch for the weak-minded. Atheists knowing that there is no help and things might not necessarily get better calls for a far stronger person.

Needy? Again, it's the exact opposite. Atheists don't need a belief in anyone else or outside support. They are independent enough to handle things on their own without relying on a higher power and praying/hoping things will change. Non-believers make the change themselves.

And deaf, possibly the best one. Non-believers have and are willing to listen to anything. They are open-minded. They have no set blueprint of what or how they have to believe. Christians, and believers of the other major religions, can't listen to anything but their own religious text. They cannot have open minds. There is only one right, only one way, and only one explanation, regardless of how many times science has disproved it. They cannot listen to others. They are truly the death.

You're a clown, extraterrestrial, and this is some of your best material yet.

My post didn't concern just non believers, it takes in all human beings, of and by themselves. And you mush have missed the "spiritually speaking" part in the post. Furthermore, "Atheists knowing" is an absolutely false statement, that's your BELIEF. Nothing more.

 

[Walden Pond]

I fall under the category of " I dont know" on a lot of issues now.

How unsettling is this for you?

With me, not knowing is the most unsettling thing in the world. That's why I aim to control as many things as I can with rules and routines. But ultimately I've chickened myself out into blandness.

 

[big_country90]

It's very unsettling. The problem is, nobody knows what the absolute truth is until we die. We can't believe one thing or another as adamantly as we want, but the reality is nobody really knows.

 

[extragreen]

"but the reality is nobody really knows."

What is it that nobody can really know?

 

[MarshallManiac]

Can someone please tell me how to contact Rivals and have my name changed to MissionaryManiacScum? I want to be sure my Username is an accurate representation of my life.

 

[extragreen]

Can someone please tell me how to contact Rivals and have my name changed to MissionaryManiacScum? I want to be sure my Username is an accurate representation of my life.

1 800 ATH EIST

 

[Herd Fever]

Hello since you decided to bad mouth Christianity I thought I might remind you of a few things it has done.

1) Hospitals, which essentially began during the Middle Ages.

(2) Universities, which also began during the Middle Ages. In addition, most of the world’s greatest universities were started for Christian purposes.

(3) Literacy and education for the masses.

(4) Capitalism and free enterprise.

(5) Representative government, particularly as it has been seen in the American experiment.

(6) The separation of political powers.

(7) Civil liberties.

(8) The abolition of slavery, both in antiquity and in more modern times.

(9) Modern science.

(10) The discovery of the New World by Columbus.

(11) The elevation of women.

(12) Benevolence and charity; the good Samaritan ethic.

(13) Higher standards of justice.

(14) The elevation of common man.

I traveled to Haiti a year ago. I didn't see any atheists there helping the people there rebuild their nation. I did see lots of Christians.

The fact you said Columbus discovered land that people was already living on negates your entire argument

 

[Herd Fever]

And for the record, I believe in God and the 3 prophets of God Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad but that's the extent of my religious beliefs especially when all religions of the world both preach and have similar backgrounds

 

[Walden Pond]

I try to watch Joel Osteen every Sunday morning. I've seen some comments on his youtube videos though from devouts that he's a false prophet.

What do you think? Whether you find God or not, he's an inspirational speaker. It's nice just to hear that kind of talking every now and then.

 

[CockyHerd]

I try to watch Joel Osteen every Sunday morning. I've seen some comments on his youtube videos though from devouts that he's a false prophet.

What do you think? Whether you find God or not, he's an inspirational speaker. It's nice just to hear that kind of talking every now and then.

He's Tony Robbins, with more money and a hotter wife.

 

[big_country90]

I try to watch Joel Osteen every Sunday morning. I've seen some comments on his youtube videos though from devouts that he's a false prophet.

What do you think? Whether you find God or not, he's an inspirational speaker. It's nice just to hear that kind of talking every now and then.

That's pretty much all he is, an inspirational speaker.

 

[ThunderCat98]

Joel Osteen is a joke and a disgrace to the faith he claims to preach.

 

[Walden Pond]

Joel Osteen is a joke and a disgrace to the faith he claims to preach.

Is it the money or the absence of hellfire and brimstone from the speeches?

 

[ThunderCat98]

Is it the money or the absence of hellfire and brimstone from the speeches?

Neither. It is the fact that what he preaches - that you can be successful and get whatever you want through by asking God for it and by following him - is not based on Biblical teachings. To the contrary, it is a doctrine based on deception and lies.

 

[Herd Fever]

Neither. It is the fact that what he preaches - that you can be successful and get whatever you want through by asking God for it and by following him - is not based on Biblical teachings. To the contrary, it is a doctrine based on deception and lies.

Sadly he isn't the only one preaching this rhetoric

 

[ohio herd]

The fact you said Columbus discovered land that people was already living on negates your entire argument

No it doesn't Fever, What I said about all the good things that have been done in the name of Christ doesn't really need me to defend them and sure doesn't negate them because you found one tenant you don't agree with.

 

[Walden Pond]

Neither. It is the fact that what he preaches - that you can be successful and get whatever you want through by asking God for it and by following him - is not based on Biblical teachings. To the contrary, it is a doctrine based on deception and lies.

Well, I think he covers himself on it by preaching about unanswered prayers and how they turn out for the better anyway. His message is pretty much you've already got it all. God gave it to you. Enjoy it and walk with Christ and you'll have more and more blessings.

It's all a very nice message. I'm not sold on God and an afterlife, but I think it's a good way to go about this life. We all sit around complaining that we don't have this or that, yet do nothing to get it. That means we don't really even want it. So, we might as well enjoy what we've got.

 

[murox]

Well...I take this board as a safe place to be open and honest. The 'cigar lounge' as rifle put it. The reality is that I simply don't know what to believe in certain instances or to what degree to accept something as fact. It's extremely difficult for me to even type that. I fall under the category of " I dont know" on a lot of issues now. And I could never have these conversations with, say, my parents for instance. But I do value differing opinions more than I ever have in the past.

I used to be terrified of having a religious conversations with my dad. My mom probably wouldn't care. He used to call me on Sunday afternoons and ask if I went to church. I'd lie and say I did so it wouldn't upset him. Then about 5 years ago I realized that I was an adult and didn't have to lie to my dad to convince him I was going to his version of heaven. Now I like to listen to his stories of who's doing what at his church (they all gossip about one another and talk shit) and I sit there counting (in my head) all the sins. I think church for many people is nothing more than a social event/organization. Then you get the cliques within the church, and there's nothing better than when they start feuding with one another. I truly enjoy listening to the stories. Stacy and I just sit there letting them talk and roll our eyes. It's great.

 

[Herd Fever]

No it doesn't Fever, What I said about all the good things that have been done in the name of Christ doesn't really need me to defend them and sure doesn't negate them because you found one tenant you don't agree with.

So I guess enslaving, raping, steal the natural resources and gold, spreading diseases, and telling the natives become Christians or die is oh so great huh?? See Christanity has a very dark and bigoted side worldwide that it's laughable when people say they have done things for Christ

 

[extragreen]

Haters gonna hate.

Good things pioneered by the Church and committed Christians in modern society:
• The Church is the largest single provider of healthcare in the world
• also the largest single provider of education in the world
• Church fathers successfully campaigned against infanticide in society
• and stood up for the rights of women by codifying marriage as a sacrament
• The first orphanages were churches
• Barnardos is the world's largest orphanage system
• Churches pioneered the first homes for the elderly
• and the first homes for the disabled in society
• Leading society to abolish the slave trade (Wilberforce and the church)
• Pioneers of modern social workers (Jane Adams)
• Fathers of modern Foster Care (Charles L. Brace)
• The Mothers Union - strengthening family life. Founded in 1876
• Free health care for the terminally ill (Douglas Macmillan)
• Pioneers of modern nursing (F.Nightingale)
• Almost all schools were church founded before the state took over
• 100 out of 110 US universities were church founded (inc. Yale, Princeton and Harvard)
• Pioneers of free schooling for poor young people (John Pounds)
• School for children in slums (R.Raikes)
• World Literacy pioneers (SIL and Frank Lauback)
• Pioneers of education for the deaf (Rev. Gallaudet)
• Braille system for the blind developed by Louis Braille.
• First laws to protect children from abuse (Soc. PCC - Rev B Waugh)
• Fighting for the rights of children working in factories (Richard Oastler)
• as well as campaigning for Poor Law reform
• Josephine Butler campaigned for the age of consent to be set to 16 so children could not be abused.
• YMCA - caring for young people in society
• Salvation Army - pioneering radical care for the poor and disadvantaged in society
• Education for orphans (George Mueller)
• Campaigning for prison reform (Quakers)
• Temperance Movement to address alcohol abuse in society
• Alcoholics (and Narcotics) Anonymous (Dr. B.Smith)
• Leading society to adopt "fair trade" (Tearfund)
• Pioneers of Microfinance for poor countries (D.Bussau)
• Pioneers of international child sponsorship (World Vision, Dr. R. Price)
• Save The Children, huge worldwide mission (Eglantyne Jebb)
• Fathers of modern famine relief (Oxfam Quakers)
• International Housing for the poor - Habitat for Humanity (Millard Fuller)
• Justice for people worldwide who are oppressed (Amnesty International - P.Beneson, E.Baker)
• Leprosy Mission - caring for those no-one else wants (Dr. P.Wilson)
• King James Bible - profound impact on the English language and culture

 

[extragreen]

The same thing that your non-belief in Buddhism and Islam contributes. But we're not supporting oppressive policies because some fictional superhero's book says to. Or demanding others adhere to our dark age thinking.

While your dark age thinking supports the murder of about 1 1/2 billion babies. Wonder how many deaths can be attributed to the dark age policy of killing in the name of democracy, or freedom?

 

[riflearm2]

Extraterrestrial, need I list many of the great things that john gotti did for his community? Did they make him any less of a criminal monster?

Nice revisionist history in that list, too.

 

[extragreen]

Extraterrestrial, need I list many of the great things that john gotti did for his community? Did they make him any less of a criminal monster?

Nice revisionist history in that list, too.

1 1/2 BILLION abortions. And that number increases by about 40 MILLION per year. It would require 2600 years of the Crusades to equal the number of abortions committed each year. Your dark age policy of abortion causes about the same number of deaths each year as the total number of deaths brought about by all other causes combined.

 

[riflearm2]

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand. But, it must be, because you keep using it as your only argument.

We both agree that killing a person is wrong. The difference we have is that I don't consider a glob of cells being vacuumed as killing a person.

It's similar to this: we both could believe that pre-marital sex is wrong. But, you could be fine with oral stimulation outside of marriage while I could be vehemently against it. I would claim that oral stimulation is sex. You would believe that only penis to vagina intercourse is sex.

Your constant abortion arguments are a poor attempt by you to defend your stance. We don't disagree on the killing topic. We have fundamental differences in what we consider a person. We might not disagree on pre-marital sex. But, we could have fundamental differences on what we consider sex.

Hopefully, you can understand that and it stops your illogical and frequent abortion analogies.

Now, can we get back to talking about how great of a guy john gotti was? I want to dismiss all of the bad things he did and only highlight the good things. Hell, I won't even fabricate or manipulate the truth to inflate his good deeds like you did with Christianity.