1st Coaching Change Made?

[jocktalker]

Marshall Defensive Assistant Sean Cronin has resigned to take a position with Charlie Strong at USA.

Did he leave on his own or was he pushed? If he was pushed, I'd say he landed squarely on his feet!

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Tweets and reports indicate he interviewed and Strong hired him.

 

[bbneutralfan]

He could see what lies ahead. Glad he was able to get a job before all are fired! Still can't believe Doc has kept his ol buddy Legg who will single handily cost all their jobs. Dumb.

 

[Josh Stowers]

He could see what lies ahead. Glad he was able to get a job before all are fired! Still can't believe Doc has kept his ol buddy Legg who will single handily cost all their jobs. Dumb.

I think it's comical when people say stuff like this

 

[bbneutralfan]

How comical will it be if we repeat last season or worse? Will you be the first to laugh then?

 

[Josh Stowers]

How comical will it be if we repeat last season or worse? Will you be the first to laugh then?

What will happen if that doesn't happen? Will fans like yourself admit they were wrong? No, they'll just patiently wait for a failure and then jump at the chance to attack Doc and Co.

 

[beefcake0520]

I get tired of this negative crap. I get last year sucked, it did for all of us but dangone people, get over it. We all have a right to be skeptical, but there is no reason to be negative right now. Off the soap box.

 

[30Kelly]

What will happen if that doesn't happen? Will fans like yourself admit they were wrong? No, they'll just patiently wait for a failure and then jump at the chance to attack Doc and Co.

Dude, you sound like Bill Legg's son or something.

Fans want to win. We want to see our coaching staff make good decisions with the players we have. We don't usually see these things. When we have, it was against some of the worst teams in college football.

Don't get me wrong, we've had a few games against decent opponents when Cato was playing, but those were compliments of Cato more so than the coaching staff.

Doc seems to run the program as if it were his own business, like a grocery store. The players are his staff and he thinks he will hire and fire whoever he damn well pleases. The problem is, he has a ton of people who actually invest in his business financially, so it's not his own business and he does need to at least offer explanation or damn well show tremendous success and growth otherwise. Again, he does not do this, and since Cato, he has not been accomplishing a damn thing except national embarrassment.

Fans want to see at least some sort of change to the system, because it obviously no longer works. If it weren't for fans like us to rattle the cage and demand better, we would just stay in the gutter while fans like you continue to praise and honor poor performance.

 

[Josh Stowers]

The problem is, he has a ton of people who actually invest in his business financially, so it's not his own business and he does need to at least offer explanation or damn well show tremendous success and growth otherwise.

This is where you're wrong. I highly doubt anywhere in Doc's job description does it say, "and you'll have to discuss the ins and outs of your decisions with fans."

He won 10 games and a bowl in 2015 with a true freshman quarterback and you think that's a "national embarrassment?"

And as good as Cato was, the truth is he lost more games than "he" won. How many games can you seriously look back and say, "Rakeem Cato won that game for us?" Because I can clearly think of a lot more games where he lost the game by turning the ball over than he won by leading a game winning drive.

And don't take that the wrong way, because I think Cato was really good, but the truth is the team was better when we didn't have to rely on him.

Last year sucked, I get that but do you actually realize how bad the cards were that we were dealt last season? You obviously don't otherwise you'd be able to look past it and get on with life.

I'm not necessarily saying changes shouldn't be made, but thinking if we fire Legg that it will naturally solve all of our problems is foolish and overstated.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

My problem with Marshall in general and those close to our program is - there is always an excuse. It's never someone in the Schewey's fault, it's always an outside source or the fans don't attend or give enough. I have never seen a school who doesn't appreciate its fans or takes them for granted like Marshall.
I have been a season ticket holder since 87, BG member since 89 and my name is on a brick in front of the hall of fame. But right now, I have little interest in MU athletics due to the attitudes of some within and outside the school. Just sad.

 

[30Kelly]

This is where you're wrong. I highly doubt anywhere in Doc's job description does it say, "and you'll have to discuss the ins and outs of your decisions with fans."

He won 10 games and a bowl in 2015 with a true freshman quarterback and you think that's a "national embarrassment?"

And as good as Cato was, the truth is he lost more games than "he" won. How many games can you seriously look back and say, "Rakeem Cato won that game for us?" Because I can clearly think of a lot more games where he lost the game by turning the ball over than he won by leading a game winning drive.

And don't take that the wrong way, because I think Cato was really good, but the truth is the team was better when we didn't have to rely on him.

Last year sucked, I get that but do you actually realize how bad the cards were that we were dealt last season? You obviously don't otherwise you'd be able to look past it and get on with life.

I'm not necessarily saying changes shouldn't be made, but thinking if we fire Legg that it will naturally solve all of our problems is foolish and overstated.

If there was far more going on than what the fans knew, this only strengthens the notion that Doc does not bother communicating enough with the fanbase. You're trying to take what I'm saying to an extreme. Of course Doc doesn't have to explain every move, but hell he doesn't explain shit. Perhaps if he bothered, the fans wouldn't be so upset and wanting Legg gone.

Even at our best, we have underutilized our offensive talent. If you can't see Legg is not a good coach then we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Josh Stowers]

If there was far more going on than what the fans knew, this only strengthens the notion that Doc does not bother communicating enough with the fanbase. You're trying to take what I'm saying to an extreme. Of course Doc doesn't have to explain every move, but hell he doesn't explain shit. Perhaps if he bothered, the fans wouldn't be so upset and wanting Legg gone.

Even at our best, we have underutilized our offensive talent. If you can't see Legg is not a good coach then we can just agree to disagree.

Doc doesn't have to justify anything to you, me, or anyone besides Hamrick. You don't go to a grocery store (your example) and expect the manager to justify why he doesn't carry a certain type of bread do you?

No one is saying Bill Legg is the greatest offensive mind in football, but listening to armchair QB's simply say "fire Bill Legg" and then think our issues will be solved just shows how unattached they are to the program and the sport of football.

 

[30Kelly]

Most are also not saying that letting Bill Legg go is going to solve all of our problems either, but it's a step in the right direction.

And hell yes I would ask the manager why all of the sudden he/she is putting out different products. Do me a favor and don't ever try to operate or manage your own business. @Chris McLaughlin should probably help you out in your customer service skills, or should I say, "lack thereof?"

 

[bbneutralfan]

So Josh you are now the resident expert and we fans - according to your logic, have no say! Are you a season ticket holder? If so you are helping to pay Doc and his piss poor staff so don't tell us we have no right to question his decisions or any one else at Marshall. If you are happy then so be it. But you can plainly see the majority are not happy with Docs current running the program. And please, quit bringing up the past. That is part of our history. Does it matter for the current season or the future? Uh no it does not.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Most are also not saying that letting Bill Legg go is going to solve all of our problems either, but it's a step in the right direction.

And hell yes I would ask the manager why all of the sudden he/she is putting out different products. Do me a favor and don't ever try to operate or manage your own business. @Chris McLaughlin should probably help you out in your customer service skills, or should I say, "lack thereof?"

It's the first thing out of 99% of people's mouths. Legg has forgotten more football than most of us will ever know. Again, I'm not defending him, but it's my belief that there are other issues that need addressed well before that happens.

So you think because I help out with the site that I should not voice my opinion or facts in most cases? That seems somewhat hypocritical here, but ok.

 

[Josh Stowers]

So Josh you are now the resident expert and we fans - according to your logic, have no say! Are you a season ticket holder? If so you are helping to pay Doc and his piss poor staff so don't tell us we have no right to question his decisions or any one else at Marshall. If you are happy then so be it. But you can plainly see the majority are not happy with Docs current running the program. And please, quit bringing up the past. That is part of our history. Does it matter for the current season or the future? Uh no it does not.

Actually, I have as much or more access to the program than anyone on this forum so yeah, I'd consider myself pretty in tune with the current situation.

And I've been a season ticket holder for 13 years now and only missed 2 home games since '95 on top of being a Big Green member.

Well, 2016 is the "past" as well so with your logic then you can't reference it either if I can't reference 2015 or earlier.

 

[30Kelly]

It's the first thing out of 99% of people's mouths. Legg has forgotten more football than most of us will ever know. Again, I'm not defending him, but it's my belief that there are other issues that need addressed well before that happens.

So you think because I help out with the site that I should not voice my opinion or facts in most cases? That seems somewhat hypocritical here, but ok.

Of course you should interact with posters. However, you come across as trying to force your idea on others and confrontational, rather than engaging in debate. Chris disagrees with posters all the time, but he's not a dick about it and he's respected by a lot of posters.

If you want to believe Doc doesn't need to communicate with fans then, as I said before, we can agree to disagree. I'm not going to agree with your point of view, but that should be okay. I know you're not going to agree with mine either and I'm okay with that also.

Let me give you an example of how I've never seen Chris post:

Will fans like yourself admit they were wrong? No, they'll just patiently wait for a failure and then jump at the chance to attack Doc and Co.

If you didn't start off like this, you would get much further with people who don't support Legg.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Of course you should interact with posters. However, you come across as trying to force your idea on others and confrontational, rather than engaging in debate. Chris disagrees with posters all the time, but he's not a dick about it and he's respected by a lot of posters.

If you want to believe Doc doesn't need to communicate with fans then, as I said before, we can agree to disagree. I'm not going to agree with your point of view, but that should be okay. I know you're not going to agree with mine either and I'm okay with that also.

Let me give you an example of how I've never seen Chris post:



If you didn't start off like this, you would get much further with people who don't support Legg.

I responded in the same manner in which I was responded to. Certain posters have a history of only posting with hostility, but tend to get upset when the same happens to them. For the record, I'm not referring to you.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Maybe the problem is Legg has forgotten too much, or is just so stuck in his ways that he hasn't evolved. He has been the OC for 7 years and in that time we have not produced one 1,000 yard receiver on the outside. Not one X or Z has a 1,000 yards. Yurachek was our best offensive player last year and Byrd was probably second, but "we don't design plays for particular players" so they both had extremely limited opportunities.

So, we don't get production out of our X or Z, we don't design plays for our TEs, and we just don't throw the ball to our backs. With all that though, Legg is a good OC?

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

Doubtful Doc pushed anyone out. Really 3 10 win seasons speak for themselves, last year was horrible but again Michigan State and our G5 equivalent ND both tanked too.

Let's let Doc coach.

 

[MarshallSnare]

I was done with Cronin when I saw him dancing to Soulja Boy on the sideline, immediately after halftime of the WKU game last season, after his defense had been shredded by WKU's offense in the first half.

 

[19MU88]

This is where you're wrong. I highly doubt anywhere in Doc's job description does it say, "and you'll have to discuss the ins and outs of your decisions with fans."

He won 10 games and a bowl in 2015 with a true freshman quarterback and you think that's a "national embarrassment?"

And as good as Cato was, the truth is he lost more games than "he" won. How many games can you seriously look back and say, "Rakeem Cato won that game for us?" Because I can clearly think of a lot more games where he lost the game by turning the ball over than he won by leading a game winning drive.

And don't take that the wrong way, because I think Cato was really good, but the truth is the team was better when we didn't have to rely on him.

Last year sucked, I get that but do you actually realize how bad the cards were that we were dealt last season? You obviously don't otherwise you'd be able to look past it and get on with life.

I'm not necessarily saying changes shouldn't be made, but thinking if we fire Legg that it will naturally solve all of our problems is foolish and overstated.

love someone finally pointing out Cato blowing games.....good God it was a high percentage of those we lost

 

[UBeenThunderStruck]

Doubtful Doc pushed anyone out. Really 3 10 win seasons speak for themselves, last year was horrible but again Michigan State and our G5 equivalent ND both tanked too.

Let's let Doc coach.

The difference is their losses didn't come to the perennial cupcakes like North Texas, ODU, Akron, Charlotte, and FIU!

 

[Marine03]

It's the first thing out of 99% of people's mouths. Legg has forgotten more football than most of us will ever know. Again, I'm not defending him, but it's my belief that there are other issues that need addressed well before that happens.

So you think because I help out with the site that I should not voice my opinion or facts in most cases? That seems somewhat hypocritical here, but ok.

You could've stopped where I quit highlighting and you would've been just fine. Fact is, Leggs shelf life is expired, he has no creativity as an OC anymore

 

[Marine03]

Doubtful Doc pushed anyone out. Really 3 10 win seasons speak for themselves, last year was horrible but again Michigan State and our G5 equivalent ND both tanked too.

Let's let Doc coach.

You mean this because we are both overrated, overvalued, and legends in some of our own fans minds I'm sure. Otherwise I have no idea how you make this comparison

 

[JudgeDD]

To UBeenThunderStruck:

Michigan State lost to Indiana, BYU, Maryland, and Illinois. I would argue that their collective rankings over the past several years are a comparable distance below Michigan State as NT, ODU, Akron, Charlotte, and FIU are to Marshall. They were horrible losses, as were Marshall's. Michigan State's wins were only to Furman, Rutgers, and the aforementioned Notre Dame. The comparison of Marshall's season to Michigan State's is valid.

To All:

IMO - Last season was not a single-issue failure.

* Our defense was inexperienced, and played like it.
* The offensive line lost the two most senior players - 40% of the starting lineup.
* Our QB was good as a freshman, but maybe a little over-hyped. Last season just showed that he has some maturing to do, both on and off the field.
* The biggest thing for me was that team chemistry wasn't there last year, for whatever reason. It's a new group of characters every season, and though we might logically expect a younger player to step up and fill a roll, sometimes it isn't that simple. Different pieces don't always make the same puzzle.
* Scheme, play-calling, and strength staff and coaching decisions. These are the easiest to second-guess. I have stated before that I am not a fan of the offense we run. But you can't deny the success of the previous three seasons (and I'll take Josh's position one step further - many of those games were won despite Cato). And yes, a lot of victories were against inferior competition. But so were last season's losses, as UBeenTS pointed out. Agree with the scheme or not - and I don't always - It's not like they all forgot how to coach. So as much as I would like to pin all of our woes on the coaching staff, and as much as I still refuse to let them completely off the hook, there are plenty of other issues to share the blame.

My hope it that last season was the perfect shit-storm that all came together and crashed the ship. Winning the previous few seasons may have let the staff become a little complacent. After all, if it's not broke...But this past season will force a reevaluation across the board. Many assumed that would mean massive coaching changes, but that hasn't been the route taken, and I know that has frustrated some of the fan base. It will be interesting to see the changes this staff will make given last season's failures.

One season could just be a fluke, an aberration. Two would be a pattern. As for me, I'm cautiously optimistic about this coming fall.

 

[Sean Hammond]

To UBeenThunderStruck:

Michigan State lost to Indiana, BYU, Maryland, and Illinois. I would argue that their collective rankings over the past several years are a comparable distance below Michigan State as NT, ODU, Akron, Charlotte, and FIU are to Marshall. They were horrible losses, as were Marshall's. Michigan State's wins were only to Furman, Rutgers, and the aforementioned Notre Dame. The comparison of Marshall's season to Michigan State's is valid.

To All:

IMO - Last season was not a single-issue failure.

* Our defense was inexperienced, and played like it.
* The offensive line lost the two most senior players - 40% of the starting lineup.
* Our QB was good as a freshman, but maybe a little over-hyped. Last season just showed that he has some maturing to do, both on and off the field.
* The biggest thing for me was that team chemistry wasn't there last year, for whatever reason. It's a new group of characters every season, and though we might logically expect a younger player to step up and fill a roll, sometimes it isn't that simple. Different pieces don't always make the same puzzle.
* Scheme, play-calling, and strength staff and coaching decisions. These are the easiest to second-guess. I have stated before that I am not a fan of the offense we run. But you can't deny the success of the previous three seasons (and I'll take Josh's position one step further - many of those games were won despite Cato). And yes, a lot of victories were against inferior competition. But so were last season's losses, as UBeenTS pointed out. Agree with the scheme or not - and I don't always - It's not like they all forgot how to coach. So as much as I would like to pin all of our woes on the coaching staff, and as much as I still refuse to let them completely off the hook, there are plenty of other issues to share the blame.

My hope it that last season was the perfect shit-storm that all came together and crashed the ship. Winning the previous few seasons may have let the staff become a little complacent. After all, if it's not broke...But this past season will force a reevaluation across the board. Many assumed that would mean massive coaching changes, but that hasn't been the route taken, and I know that has frustrated some of the fan base. It will be interesting to see the changes this staff will make given last season's failures.

One season could just be a fluke, an aberration. Two would be a pattern. As for me, I'm cautiously optimistic about this coming fall.

As always, a fair and intelligent post by Judge.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Maybe the problem is Legg has forgotten too much, or is just so stuck in his ways that he hasn't evolved. He has been the OC for 7 years and in that time we have not produced one 1,000 yard receiver on the outside. Not one X or Z has a 1,000 yards. Yurachek was our best offensive player last year and Byrd was probably second, but "we don't design plays for particular players" so they both had extremely limited opportunities.

So, we don't get production out of our X or Z, we don't design plays for our TEs, and we just don't throw the ball to our backs. With all that though, Legg is a good OC?

The lack of production from the X and Z receivers is somewhat deceiving. The reason it seems that way is because we spread the ball around so much (more so with Cato). We just haven't had that "guy" for a full four years on the outside that could really dominate and take the top off the defense. Davonte Allen (injuries), Angelo Jean-Louis (off the field), and Michael Clark (who knows what he could've done) each had the talent, but were slowed by a number of issues.

Here's a five-year breakdown of our X/Z receiver production:

2012

198 catches for 2,160 yards and 19 touchdowns. That totaled 49% of our receptions, 51% of our yardage and 51% of our touchdowns.

2013

106 catches for 1,515 yards and 11 touchdowns. That totaled 36% of our catches, 39% of our yardage, and 28% of our touchdowns.

2014

99 catches for 1,858 yards and 18 touchdowns. That totaled 37% of our catches, 48% of our yardage, and 45% of our touchdowns.

2015

117 catches for 1,360 yards and 10 touchdowns. That totaled 43% of our catches, 46% of our yardage, and 40% of our touchdowns.

2016

107 catches for 1,504 yards and 13 touchdowns. That totaled 41% of our catches, 52% of our yardage, and 46% of our touchdowns.

Sum

627 catches for 8,397 yards and 71 touchdowns. That totaled 42% of our catches, 47% of our yardage, and 42% of our touchdowns.

Those numbers aren't bad at all when you consider the production we received from the players (Tommy Shuler, Gator Hoskins, Deandre Reaves, Ryan Yurachek, Josh Knight) we had on the inside. It should be noted, Davonte Allen would've EASILY eclipsed 1,000 yards in 2014 had he not been injured and missed three or four games.

 

[andy4theherd]

One season could just be a fluke, an aberration. Two would be a pattern. As for me, I'm cautiously optimistic about this coming fall.

i agree with most of what you said, but if you look past records and look at who Doc has lost to since taking over you will defiantly see a pattern. he consistently beats the bad/mediocre teams on our schedules (last year withstanding). he also consistently loses to the teams we play with a pulse.

Doc vs FBS teams that finished with a winning record (keep in mind, this is "FBS teams". not P5. there are a lot more MAC and CUSA guys in those loss columns than Louisville and Pitt types)

2010
1-5

2011
3-5

2012
1-5

2013
3-4

2014
3-1

2015
1-3

2016
1-5

Total
13-28

 

[30Kelly]

To UBeenThunderStruck:

Michigan State lost to Indiana, BYU, Maryland, and Illinois. I would argue that their collective rankings over the past several years are a comparable distance below Michigan State as NT, ODU, Akron, Charlotte, and FIU are to Marshall. They were horrible losses, as were Marshall's. Michigan State's wins were only to Furman, Rutgers, and the aforementioned Notre Dame. The comparison of Marshall's season to Michigan State's is valid.

To All:

IMO - Last season was not a single-issue failure.

* Our defense was inexperienced, and played like it.
* The offensive line lost the two most senior players - 40% of the starting lineup.
* Our QB was good as a freshman, but maybe a little over-hyped. Last season just showed that he has some maturing to do, both on and off the field.
* The biggest thing for me was that team chemistry wasn't there last year, for whatever reason. It's a new group of characters every season, and though we might logically expect a younger player to step up and fill a roll, sometimes it isn't that simple. Different pieces don't always make the same puzzle.
* Scheme, play-calling, and strength staff and coaching decisions. These are the easiest to second-guess. I have stated before that I am not a fan of the offense we run. But you can't deny the success of the previous three seasons (and I'll take Josh's position one step further - many of those games were won despite Cato). And yes, a lot of victories were against inferior competition. But so were last season's losses, as UBeenTS pointed out. Agree with the scheme or not - and I don't always - It's not like they all forgot how to coach. So as much as I would like to pin all of our woes on the coaching staff, and as much as I still refuse to let them completely off the hook, there are plenty of other issues to share the blame.

My hope it that last season was the perfect shit-storm that all came together and crashed the ship. Winning the previous few seasons may have let the staff become a little complacent. After all, if it's not broke...But this past season will force a reevaluation across the board. Many assumed that would mean massive coaching changes, but that hasn't been the route taken, and I know that has frustrated some of the fan base. It will be interesting to see the changes this staff will make given last season's failures.

One season could just be a fluke, an aberration. Two would be a pattern. As for me, I'm cautiously optimistic about this coming fall.

I hope you are right, but next season, if we shit the bed again, please do not come up with another extensive list of excuses.

 

[andy4theherd]

everybody keeps going back to 2015 and "10 wins" as the reference point for 2016 being a "fluke". but was it? we played 4 teams in 13 games that finished with a winning season. we beat 1 of them. we lost to Ohio, MTSU, and WKU. we needed 2 OT's to beat a Kent team that finished 3-9.

yes, it is hard to complain about a 10 win season, but that season in hindsight had a lot of "writing on the wall"...

 

[19MU88]

As always, a fair and intelligent post by Judge.

hell, I didn't realize fair intelligent posts were allowed on here.

 

[Josh Stowers]

everybody keeps going back to 2015 and "10 wins" as the reference point for 2016 being a "fluke". but was it? we played 4 teams in 13 games that finished with a winning season. we beat 1 of them. we lost to Ohio, MTSU, and WKU. we needed 2 OT's to beat a Kent team that finished 3-9.

yes, it is hard to complain about a 10 win season, but that season in hindsight had a lot of "writing on the wall"...

Considering we lost our starting QB, All-Conference RB, All-Conference OL in the matter of like a three game stretch, and finished the season with a true freshman QB, 10 wins was pretty damn good.

 

[JudgeDD]

i agree with most of what you said, but if you look past records and look at who Doc has lost to since taking over you will defiantly see a pattern. he consistently beats the bad/mediocre teams on our schedules (last year withstanding). he also consistently loses to the teams we play with a pulse.

Doc vs FBS teams that finished with a winning record (keep in mind, this is "FBS teams". not P5. there are a lot more MAC and CUSA guys in those win columns than Louisville and Pitt types)

2010
1-5

2011
3-5

2012
1-5

2013
3-4

2014
3-1

2015
1-3

2016
1-5

Total
13-28

Good post. I agree it's disconcerting to see that record. And I think it goes to show that despite the double-digit winning seasons, the 2013 & 2015 teams were still only above-average at best. But even in those seasons, Marshall won their games against the bad teams. Last season, that didn't happen. Something was different; something took the program from above-average to well-below last year. And it's hard to pin that 100% on a coaching staff which, for the most part, has remained intact.

 

[MarshallManiac]

I get tired of this negative crap. I get last year sucked, it did for all of us but dangone people, get over it. We all have a right to be skeptical, but there is no reason to be negative right now. Off the soap box.

No disrespect but after finishing 3-9 last year I'd say there is plenty of reason to be negative.

 

[Herd Fever]

This is where you're wrong. I highly doubt anywhere in Doc's job description does it say, "and you'll have to discuss the ins and outs of your decisions with fans."

He won 10 games and a bowl in 2015 with a true freshman quarterback and you think that's a "national embarrassment?"

And as good as Cato was, the truth is he lost more games than "he" won. How many games can you seriously look back and say, "Rakeem Cato won that game for us?" Because I can clearly think of a lot more games where he lost the game by turning the ball over than he won by leading a game winning drive.

And don't take that the wrong way, because I think Cato was really good, but the truth is the team was better when we didn't have to rely on him.

Last year sucked, I get that but do you actually realize how bad the cards were that we were dealt last season? You obviously don't otherwise you'd be able to look past it and get on with life.

I'm not necessarily saying changes shouldn't be made, but thinking if we fire Legg that it will naturally solve all of our problems is foolish and overstated.

We dont win the CCG in 2014 without Cato

 

[Josh Stowers]

We dont win the CCG in 2014 without Cato

This is likely true, but the defense played lights out that game too. And to go one step further, Justin Haig deserved the MVP over Cato sooooo...............

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

So now we're ragging on Cato? But MJ Litton gets a pass for all shit he pulled? I'd take Cato any day over Litton.

 

[30Kelly]

Considering we lost our starting QB, All-Conference RB, All-Conference OL in the matter of like a three game stretch, and finished the season with a true freshman QB, 10 wins was pretty damn good.

that's the part I don't get...what happened with Chase? I held on last season insisting that his issues were a lingering concussion, shell shocked from the hit and needing to get over it and/or the terrible lack of protection from the O-line. But there were times when the O-line held and he still was way off on passes.

 

[Josh Stowers]

So now we're ragging on Cato? But MJ Litton gets a pass for all shit he pulled? I'd take Cato any day over Litton.

That's not even an argument. I'd take Cato all day every day over Chase. In no way am I giving Litton a pass either. Matter of fact, I put more of 2016 on his shoulders than anyone else's.