That concept died in the early 1900's. Probably another day trader posting who could never pass his security exams.
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Anyone Following (or even investing) in GameStop?
- Thread starter SamSwimmer
- Start date
Sooo, you don’t think Robin Hood shut down trading to assist the hedge funds?
Sooooo. How exactly does stopping the buying TODAY, assist the hedgefund (you named) that sold out of it's losing position TUESDAY?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/hed...d-out-of-gamestop-short-position-tuesday.html
Speaking of other Billionaires that actually profited from the pump and dump Reddit scheme. Shocking....we wont even have to wait weeks most likely.
"Social Capital’s Chamath Palihapitiya is among those who jumped into the stock, saying in a Tuesday tweet that he bought GameStop call options betting the stock will go higher. His tweet seemed to intensify the rally in the previous session. The stock ended the day 92% higher at $147.98.
Of course he was long gone from his trade too most likely by the time he started his talking head rounds on TV shows this afternoon.
He putting like $100k in. He wipes his ass with that.
Until I see other evidence I don’t believe Robin Hood paused trading to protect their clients. The most evidence points to them protecting someone else.
This guy knows a thing or two about taking excessive risk and options trading and black swans. Cliff notes: the fund models can’t fathom a price spike in AMC or GME because they’re based on normal (not fat tailed) distributions. Of course you can’t build in an autistic short squeeze...models are fallable.
Actually, A good article on WSB, from CNN no less. Read it when you have time. It's not all happy times.
Inside WallStreetBets, the Reddit army that's rocking Wall Street - CNN
Inside WallStreetBets, the Reddit army that's rocking Wall Street - CNN
I had seen it disputed that they (and others) were out of their position. May or may not be the case.
Sorkin is pretty reliable at CNBC.
I'll say it again.....by the time yesterday's news hit that the evil robinhood wouldn't let their customers buy a pump and dump, the real players, the whales on the street (whether they were on the right side or wrong side of trade) WERE GONE. Trade exited. The rubes (like Omar in John's article) would have been left holding the bag buying at the top and demanding the SEC find out how they lost their money.
You may very well be right.
Would love to see some good reporting here on this. Hoping Matt Taibbi or someone can get records of when they got out. That's important to know.
Cool information. Never really helps the avg guy on the street make a $$ though. Nope. The Robinhood trader is going to log on to wiki or google to find out what "short squeeze" means. Then most likely hear a friend of a friend just got "rich" on Robinhood, "it's easy". "Call options? Put options? Uhhhh...what's that?"
Agree. But if some idiot wants to gamble at a casino we don’t stop them. Why stop them from doing it in the market (when doing it with your own money)?
the market for many isn’t a casino...but it can be if you’re dumb .
"most of the evidence" is being promoted by unknown reddit users. Hmmmmmm
I dont care whether pappy put 100k or 100m in the trade. This type of activity (tweeting about stock trades that reaches millions) is the same thing that has gotten big name investors in trouble over the last couple of years. It's cost them 10s of millions to defend and settle cases against them for doing the very same "innocent" thing.
Apparently in this case, people want to give the guy a pass and are eagerly willing to be hypocrites (like pappy is most days)
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I couldn't disagree more on both your points. It's interesting. You suggest most dont view the market as a casino, but use a "casino" analogy to describe the market...
The market for MOST is a casino. I would argue if it wasn't...Robinhood wouldn't exist, youtube wouldn't have thousands of 20somthing year old "stock gurus" telling us how to make millions in 6 months trading, and trade commissions would still cost $50 to buy a share of stock at full service brokers. Most cant explain their own 401k accounts or investments in them. (Sadly the financial industry has created this reality--a whole different topic and rant)
The fact that any avg guy, serious about trading or investing their money wisely would even remotely consider buying any of these recent pump and dumps based on a reddit board, tells you exactly how "dumb" joeQpublic is about this.
Ok , so let’s say it is a casino. I can go there and play conservatively, stop when I’m done , and leave. You can play games with better odds like blackjack (done right) or craps.
Or you can YOLO.
We don’t have laws to “protect” people from the casino. As long as you’re playing with your own money.
Or you can YOLO.
We don’t have laws to “protect” people from the casino. As long as you’re playing with your own money.
No one cares about your own money more than you yourself.
I learned this through multiple “fiduciaries” trying to sell me loaded mutual funds, huge AUM fees, whole life insurance...people masquerading as financial experts when really they’re just salesman.
So I’m jaded.
But I still don’t think idiots need protections from gambling their money in the market.
I learned this through multiple “fiduciaries” trying to sell me loaded mutual funds, huge AUM fees, whole life insurance...people masquerading as financial experts when really they’re just salesman.
So I’m jaded.
But I still don’t think idiots need protections from gambling their money in the market.
You going to the casino and blowing your kids college fund on craps holds little to no systemic risk to hundreds of millions of other people with retirement money invested in various system of markets.
Brokers in general should have a responsibility to their customers and to the system as a whole, that known nefarious and illegal market activity-"pumping and dumping" (what Reddit community is actually bragging about doing) should be halted on their platforms if they so choose.
I am generally a free market guy. Buyer beware. In this situation, robinhood did the right thing by their platform users, based on who they know are their platform users. Robinhood wasn't rigging bids, preventing exits from trades. They simply were not allowing people to buy into a obvious scheme, which if allowed to be conducted across entire markets (which you seem to support) would be more than problematic for the stability of the entire system.
This is why I left this business working for a broker years ago. This is why I KNOW that anyone, if they actually take the time to do the work and learn, can be consistent in growing their savings and wealth on their own without the "experts".
The industry essentially created the conundrum that reddit seems to now be exploiting. Exploiting nefariously, IMO.
Do I think the market is a casino??? Not to an individual who takes the time to actually learn the game. But 99% of society doesnt or wont take the time to do the work. They are too busy watching the newest series on Netflix. They dont treat their money as a business. JoeQpublic claims to care about his money, but then admits to being so lazy by not taking time to learn how it actually can work or grow.
Should idiots that dont know how cancer treatments work, not be protected from quack docs misdiagnosing or failing to treat patients appropriately??
You’re acting like an expert on the matter yet you think this is a pump and dump? This is a short squeeze. The Wall St hedges got caught with their pants down by shorting well over 100% of the GME float.
Not a web platform, dummy.
If you don't think the big players manipulate the market (or card game, in my analogy), you are naive AF. That is the other table. What we saw with GME was them getting a taste of their own medicine.
An example. The mere presence of huge shorts manipulates the market because the players are powerful (media, short and distort, etc). Side bets should never change the cards on the table.
LOL, we don't have a seat at that table.
Let's not even get into the shitstorm of 2008...lying on ratings, etc.
So the contention that the retail investors need some safeguards?
Do the hedge funds need safeguards from shorting 140% of (*insert company) stocks? Or are they so well educated on risk they're OK to take crazy tail risk gambles?
I appreciate the discussion, Raleigh. I'm trying to learn. I'm not trolling here. I'm not a financial expert by any means. I don't fully understands options. I'm a simple jack bogle type investor that dabbles in private equity deals now and then.
Do the hedge funds need safeguards from shorting 140% of (*insert company) stocks? Or are they so well educated on risk they're OK to take crazy tail risk gambles?
I appreciate the discussion, Raleigh. I'm trying to learn. I'm not trolling here. I'm not a financial expert by any means. I don't fully understands options. I'm a simple jack bogle type investor that dabbles in private equity deals now and then.
It's not a short squeeze. It was a coordinated effort to defraud investors' money. That affected the target and many innocent people in the long run. It started a ripple effect that may last for months.
He didn't say that. Not to answer for RHF. But like he, correctly, said. I guarantee the BIG players were out before half the damage was even done. Did it hurt them? Yes.
Are they going away? No.
Will, it ultimately hurt many more people's retirement funds? Yes
And that's the tragedy. Common investors do not have the alerts, warning, and opportunity to get out of way when the tsunami happens.
Weird. My brokerage account posted this today.....
Limits on certain transactions
In the interest of helping to reduce risk due to recent market volatility, we've put in place restrictions on certain securities. These restrictions may include increasing margin requirements or limiting certain types of transactions.
I am suing!!
Limits on certain transactions
In the interest of helping to reduce risk due to recent market volatility, we've put in place restrictions on certain securities. These restrictions may include increasing margin requirements or limiting certain types of transactions.
I am suing!!
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Not necessarily. Hasn't "manipulated" Tesla stock, despite the $$billions lost over the years trying to short them.
What safeguards for hedgefunds??? By all known facts at this moment, hedgefunds and their investors took potentially $$ billions in losses and were out of the trade before robinhood took their actions.
Of course it isn't. It's closer to a bucket shop.
You're trying way too hard here.
Anyone actually following the conversation sees I am suggesting the exact opposite. Their is a higher likelihood that big players...through reddit, twitter, etc...were actually involved in manipulating a group of unsophisticated "investors" to jump on the train of a "short squeeze" so they could unload their profitable position on a stock that had zero reason to go insanely parabolic.
Is the concept of a "short squeeze" by itself ok? Sure. Buyer/seller beware. Is a short squeeze, fueled by anonymous reddit users and tweets pumping the fuel on a fire that was going to ultimately burn more greedy neophytes, than make winners, legal? Probably not.
You think because a few of these got lucky at the table during their first time playing blackjack justifies the action. I dont. It only fuels the incorrect assumption that the JoeQAvg cant really invest/trade without "expert" advice the next time guys like you get dumped on.
See my comment above. Both activities are able to be conducted simultaneously. This will most likely be the case when the dust settles.
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This is absolutely true. And no average person has a chance to play the game of sophisticated algorithms and split second automated trading.
Tesla is a great example of a hype train.
It's almost a cult of hype. Millions of people believe in the hype. That negates the short and disrupt effect. Fine by me, I've made good money off of TSLA. Of course, I am not sure when or if to cash in...I am fully aware I have been riding a hype train. I do believe that even if Tesla didn't make cars they would be a MAJOR player in battery tech, which is the main reason I first bought their stock.
I agree, it is totally possible. Or some smart crypto wealthy guys squeezing the short (this might be more likely, actually...there is TREMENDOUS new wealth among that crowd and these motherfvckers are smart.) What is fascinating is trying to figure out if it is simply a play to get paid....or an attempt to start burning it down. A huge coordinated video game raid lol. Which I admit is appealing to me...I'll play. GME was fun, I made a couple grand goofing off...but burning it down, I've been saying that for years.
Either way, it's fun...Doge is up, I have some Doge for shits and giggles because doge, now it's a nickel...but I am smart enough to not bet my house on fun. But you are right, some people will get way overextended and get fvcked.
Does burning it down justify the action? That's the question. Are 10 million people going to want to burn it down with their next stimmy checks? Is our collective attention span long enough for that? Do they know there will be hell to pay? Strange days indeed.
Seriously, you don't believe that, do you? You don't honestly believe that the common investor has the intel and opportunity (aftermarket, off-hours) to make trades like the big brokerages and Capital investors do you? They Don't.
The aftermarket and off hours have no bearing on how money can actually be made in the market for non-Wall st investors. This is yet another narrative produced by a financial industry who wishes to keep people ignorant on how they can actually succeed managing their own investments.
All one has to do is look up a longer term chart on any symbol name of any tradeable stock that's existed for a long time as an example. For simplicity sake, any blue chip...CAT, MSFT, HON, etc. Have they had huge "after hours" moves over the decades at various points??? Yes! How would that play into most investment decisions by non WS people?? It wouldn't. Actual market hours moves typically smooth out the ridiculous after hours fluctuations most novices wish to focus on.
The after hours moves are usually NOISE. Driving fear and greed emotions of people who look at their investments less than regularly and base most of their investment decisions on hot news tips and hope.
The infamous algos most WS players use???? Aside from a very few sophisticated proprietary programs, most trading desks are not much different than TOS or many other technical trading platforms you can sign up and pay for to use personally. Technical indicators are technical indicators. The market price data and flow is all being disseminated from the same exchanges to all the market players pro or amateur. The difference??? How the pro/amateur uses/reads the indicators to establish set trading systems is up to the them. Can you learn to read this technical data and translate it into profitable trades???? ABSOLUTELY, through time and experience.
Again, the avg guy on the street uses the excuse "no time" or "its gambling" or "I cant" or "my broker says" as their proxy to be...the avg guy on the street. The idea that there is some magic blackbox system out there, controlled by a wizard behind the curtain, never losing $$ on it's trading/investment decisions for any level of player is more myth. There is no reward without risk. If one is educated on the process, understands the real game, I say go for it. Most Robinhood simply dont fit that category.
Anyway....I like this conversation. Good one to have.
There is no wizard, of course. What there is, is an automated way of playing very small fluctuations that incorporates very sophisticated math and nailing it the second it needs to be nailed. And it can be (and usually is) very goddamn profitable (and you are right, because those doing it have the experience and math smarts). No common working man is able to do this.
Today's computing power and algorithms are staggering in predictive accuracy...as long as you aren't putting in garbage. There is a reason Wall Street hires mathematicians and physicists.
which again.....has no negative impact on my purchase/sell orders or anyone not trading on "news" or hope. In fact...the bigs getting in just before I do actually helps me analyze technical data (strong/weak) telling me such a move is going to play out in my favor over the length of time I am looking to be in a position. Likewise, when the trade trend is coming to an end and I need to exit.
Funny. We've come full circle. Here we are now talking about penny sized differences in "small fluctuations" for the bigs and yet, not be concerned at the small guys luck (ignorance) at piling into a GME, hoping it works because a mystery avatar on Reddit said to do it.
Yesterday, an Arizona State football assistant told me to go in on Dogecoin. So I tried doing it . . . for more than three hours. I set up a million different wallet accounts and ways to buy it, but all of the sites were struggling to even stay up let alone having new accounts made, processing money, etc.
Atomic Wallet, which is what I use, was having trouble processing any type of transfers or deposits. Their chat support was backed up for hours, and they eventually took it down and turned everything into emails. I finally was able to get a transfer in, but by that time, they had shut down transactions with Dogecoin due to availability. The entire time, I was watching as Dogecoin went from $.04 to over $.07. It would have been an easy $4000 for me.
So I was stuck with $5000 in Bitcoin which I didn't want (you had to use Bitcoin to buy the Dogecoin). I was in on Bitcoin a couple of weeks ago but got out when it dropped from $41K to $39K, and I did pretty well on it. I went to bed annoyed, because I thought Bitcoin would drop overnight, and I'd end up losing hundreds. I woke up this morning shocked to see that Bitcoin went up 15% since Elon Musk had tweeted about it, so I ended up making about $750 and immediately cashed most of it out. Now, today, I have been getting bombed with a dozen emails from Atomic Wallet saying that all of my payment attempts (other than the one that got through) had been cancelled. Even though I missed out on about $4000 in Dogecoin, I ended up accidentally making $750 in Bitcoin.
Pretty scary when all of these wallets get so much traffic that you can't get your money out if shit is about to hit.
Atomic Wallet, which is what I use, was having trouble processing any type of transfers or deposits. Their chat support was backed up for hours, and they eventually took it down and turned everything into emails. I finally was able to get a transfer in, but by that time, they had shut down transactions with Dogecoin due to availability. The entire time, I was watching as Dogecoin went from $.04 to over $.07. It would have been an easy $4000 for me.
So I was stuck with $5000 in Bitcoin which I didn't want (you had to use Bitcoin to buy the Dogecoin). I was in on Bitcoin a couple of weeks ago but got out when it dropped from $41K to $39K, and I did pretty well on it. I went to bed annoyed, because I thought Bitcoin would drop overnight, and I'd end up losing hundreds. I woke up this morning shocked to see that Bitcoin went up 15% since Elon Musk had tweeted about it, so I ended up making about $750 and immediately cashed most of it out. Now, today, I have been getting bombed with a dozen emails from Atomic Wallet saying that all of my payment attempts (other than the one that got through) had been cancelled. Even though I missed out on about $4000 in Dogecoin, I ended up accidentally making $750 in Bitcoin.
Pretty scary when all of these wallets get so much traffic that you can't get your money out if shit is about to hit.
Yet it is an unfair advantage to gaining and concentrating wealth. The American myth: everyone has the exact same chances and odds.
I think you really underestimate how much of the talk there has been to burn it down lol.
Raoul, strange thing is I have seen Bernie Supporters and Trump supporters talk about burning it down .... together. Some of the hate Wall Street and Politics and all of it. Viewed as a rigged game. That is why I keep telling people to stay away from this bitcoin stuff. They are going to get CIA'ed or deep stated. No way they let alternative currencies happen. Not a chance in the long run. One of these days they that will be like having $20 worth of tokens from the Gold Mine at the mall. Ain't worth shit now.
Myth indeed....who has ever claimed America guarantees equal ODDS? It's about leveraging the odds you have to your advantage... to create more opportunities. Simply being born in America increases your odds at obtaining opportunities.
Nope. I get it. You and the trust fund kids in Antifa think this is great fun.
Bitcoin may very well go the way of nothing....but the goal of a decentralized store of value is a noble one, and I support it. Of course don't put your life savings in there, but right now I see value there, both in terms of societal good and decentralized finance. The fanboys are a little much, though.
I don't trade it, I just buy and hold. I have a small % of my net worth there. If I lose it I lose it.
I am here to tell you, digital currency is here to stay. What form?? Not determined.(thats the risk) The Fed Reserve and banks are already acknowledging its use long term.
Maybe in some form. but, do you think the USA of America is going to allow competing currencies? I don't see it.
Tell that to Rufus....he thinks it is all antifa dorks.
I have always said Bernie vs Trump in 2016 would have been a barnburner.
You really do need to get out more lol. I don't know a single antifa...but I know plenty of tech and crypto nerds that want to burn it down....and Trumpers too. Hell, I am 99.99% certain Elon Musk wants to burn it down...but he might want to because AI is going to take us over anyways
