Christianity Questions

[Walden Pond]

I wish some of the church hymns would include all this stuff about hell and gnashing of teeth. Destroy.

Imagine some nice old lady playing the organ beautifully while the choir sings jubilant about these other people burning in hell forever. Cracking their bicuspids and molars, God poking a hole in a Duralast and tilting it just right to pour a little acid in the exposed tooth roots. The angels smiling wide as these non believers writhe in pain.

Songs and stories like that would be good enough to cut the cord on my cable.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

The idea that children are not held accountable for their sin and are granted access to Heaven by virtue of their age is the greatest advertisement for wholesale abortion that can be conceived of. (Psalm 51:5, Jeremiah 1:5-8, Ephesians 6:1-4, et al are not evidently in Greed's bible).

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

EG, I think a 3rd grader understands it is evil to kill another human being.

 

[sistersville]

You left some out:


18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:


19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

and this one . . .


“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)


and this one . . .

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

and this one . . .

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

Thats under the old law before God came to Earth and died to cover their sin. Rifle surely you know that.

 

[extragreen]

The idea that children are not held accountable for their sin and are granted access to Heaven by virtue of their age is the greatest advertisement for wholesale abortion that can be conceived of. (Psalm 51:5, Jeremiah 1:5-8, Ephesians 6:1-4, et al are not evidently in Greed's bible).

You know biblical history quite well. Your understanding of scripture is lacking. You offer as a child being held accountable the scripture in Ephesians while ignoring the fact that me and my 4 brothers and sisters (all above 40 years old) are still the CHILDREN of our parents. Furthermore, baby baptizer, you believe in predestination and admitted on this board that you baptize babies to make the parents feel good. That admission leaves 2 options, either your baptizing those babies predestined for hell and it doesn't help them, or your baptizing babies predestined for heaven and it doesn't help them since they are, you know, predestined. Still yet, you show your lack of understanding that while all of us are born with the sin of the flesh, it is not even remotely close to the sin that is transgression against the laws of God. So let me repeat myself so that even a seminary brainwashed preacher that believes in capital punishment can understand...young children are not held accountable for laws they cannot understand.

 

[extragreen]

EG, I think a 3rd grader understands it is evil to kill another human being.

Then I take it that you are for killing those 3rd graders as a punishment by electrocution, lethal injection, hanging, firing squad, etc.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

I've never said I baptize babies to make parents feel good. That's silly.

I only baptize the children of one or more believers, and only then if the parent(s) is a member of our church, as the act of baptism is a communal, not a purely individual sign. You are baptized into something. While the means of the sign has changed from the old (circumcision) to new (water baptism) covenant, the reason and purpose has not (outward testimony of membership in the community of faith).

The problem here is your definition of sin, which is deficient. Sin is any lack of conformity unto or transgression of the Law of God. It is not even a conscious violation of the Law of God. Sins of Omission are just as much a breaking of the Law as are Sins of Commission. Ignorance is not an excuse to those who transgress a statute of the State of West Virginia anymore than it is to those who break the Law of God.

When my 4 year-old steals a cookie from the cookie jar (do people even still have those?) I confront him with the 8th Commandment, call upon him to ask forgiveness for his sin, and show Him the perfect work of Christ and His sacrifice for sin. I am able to do that because of the nature of God, whose good news is available to all. (Mark 16:15).

The idea that people need to have a comprehensive knowledge of the law in order to sin is not in keeping with Romans 2:14-15 which clearly teaches that even though the Gentiles do not have "the Law" like the Jews do (that is outwardly), the reality is that the Law of God is written on the hearts of all men, and in fact is known to all men because the Law of God is merely a testimony of the character of God and His being. In other words Murder is wrong not because of any positive command, but because the unlawful destruction of the person is inimical with who God is, it violates Justice.

 

[extragreen]

I've never said I baptize babies to make parents feel good. That's silly.

Yeah, it sure is silly. But that's the exact answer you gave me when I asked you why you baptize babies when you don't know whether they're predestined for heaven or for torment.

I only baptize the children of one or more believers, and only then if the parent(s) is a member of our church, as the act of baptism is a communal, not a purely individual sign.

The Bible tells us: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; (babies don't believe, so there is no reason to baptize them.

You are baptized into something.

Water baptism does not baptize you into anything. If you don't have Christ before you go into the water, you won't have him when you come out of it.

While the means of the sign has changed from the old (circumcision) to new (water baptism) covenant, the reason and purpose has not (outward testimony of membership in the community of faith).

A baby cannot have membership in the community of faith, as they cannot have faith.

Sin is any lack of conformity unto or transgression of the Law of God.

Once again, a child is not accountable to God's law. They are innocent of transgression. I've already given Jesus's example of this.

When my 4 year-old steals a cookie from the cookie jar (do people even still have those?) I confront him with the 8th Commandment, call upon him to ask forgiveness for his sin

He has not sinned against God, he's simply disobedient to YOU.

The idea that people need to have a comprehensive knowledge of the law in order to sin is not in keeping with Romans 2:14-15

You'd do well to re-read verse 15, "their conscience also bearing witness", as babies don't have a conscience.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Once again, a child is not accountable to God's law. They are innocent of transgression. I've already given Jesus's example of this.
.

That is not what Matthew 18 says or means. Have I not already said that? Yet, you continue to argue otherwise.

How can you claim to have studied this for 40 years yet still get it wrong? Go look at interpretations and explanations of Matthew 18. They don't claim it means what you claim it does. Further, some of them even make sure to state that it isn't a claim that children are void of sin or to show their innocence as a reason for entry into heaven.

 

[extragreen]

That is not what Matthew 18 says or means. Have I not already said that? Yet, you continue to argue otherwise.

It mean precisely what I said it means. It just doesn't fit YOUR God hating narrative. In the scripture I've posted, it shows Jesus offering children as an example of what he wants Christians to be like.
In Matthew, the question is asked "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" And Jesus gave a child as an example of who is greatest.

Matthew 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

^^^^That verse alone should convince a reasonable person that children are innocent.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

He was showing that one must humble himself like a child. That was his example. Your god even discusses that in Matthew 18.

You claimed that Matthew 18 supports your claim that children are innocent of transgression. Yet, this biblical scholar goes out of his way to claim that Matthew 18 precisely says otherwise:

iv. "The child is held up as an ideal, not of innocence, purity, or faith, but of humility and unconcern for social status."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_Mat/Mat_18.cfm

 

[extragreen]

He was showing that one must humble himself like a child. That was his example. Your god even discusses that in Matthew 18.

You claimed that Matthew 18 supports your claim that children are innocent of transgression. Yet, this biblical scholar goes out of his way to claim that Matthew 18 precisely says otherwise:

iv. "The child is held up as an ideal, not of innocence, purity, or faith, but of humility and unconcern for social status."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_Mat/Mat_18.cfm

The red lettered statement is fact. The rest of it is opinion.

 

[herdfan429]

The red lettered statement is fact. The rest of it is opinion.

Yet you state your OPINION as fact and we are supposed to believe you?

 

[GK4Herd]

I'm seeing well thought out and logical interpretation of scripture from several of you yet you disagree. The bible just isn't that clear. My elementary class is studying early American settlements and discussing John Winthrop's City on the Hill and how he tried to create a more pure form of the Church of England (Puritans). Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson broke away from the Puritans because they couldn't agree. David Thomson and Thomas Hooker broke away as well. Christians not interpreting the bible the same has always existed.

But the post that I can't get by is Walden's gnashing of teeth and eternal damnation references. That just doesn't seem like a just God to put you on this earth flawed for a second and punish you for eternity.

 

[extragreen]

Yet you state your OPINION as fact and we are supposed to believe you?

No, you're supposed to study the Bible and determine if I'm correct.

 

[extragreen]

. That just doesn't seem like a just God to put you on this earth flawed for a second and punish you for eternity.

In order to come to your conclusion that it doesn't seem fair, you have to ignore almost everything the Bible has to say.

 

[herdfan429]

No, you're supposed to study the Bible and determine if I'm correct.

You're so self centered you completely ignore bible scholars, you know the people that study the Bible a hell of a lot more than a scientologist cabinet maker in Wayne West Virginia, and are arguing that your interpretation is the only one that is correct.

 

[Walden Pond]

But the post that I can't get by is Walden's gnashing of teeth and eternal damnation references. That just doesn't seem like a just God to put you on this earth flawed for a second and punish you for eternity.

Well, he tries to start out being nice. If that doesn't work, he has to get tough and whoop your ass to make you do what he wants although he made it so you wouldn't want to.

This isn't limited to religion though. Society is full of institutions where people get conned into believing they must make all these sacrifices for something great. If you think about it too much, you end up realizing it's mostly a sham.

But that's the truth setting you free. Once you know it's all piddly, you should be able to stop aggravating the hell out of yourself over it. That's where I still fall short a lot of times. Still get caught up in the inflated importance of bullshit.

 

[extragreen]

You're so self centered you completely ignore bible scholars, you know the people that study the Bible a hell of a lot more than a scientologist cabinet maker in Wayne West Virginia, and are arguing that your interpretation is the only one that is correct.

I suggest you ignore Bible scholars also. They have as many varying views as anyone else. The Bible doesn't tell me to depend on scholars, it tell ME to study it.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Then I take it that you are for killing those 3rd graders as a punishment by electrocution, lethal injection, hanging, firing squad, etc.

Illogical, as we are not discussing the American legal system.

 

[extragreen]

Illogical, as we are not discussing the American legal system.

Not illogical. If 3rd graders are evil sociopaths that knowingly commit atrocities, then punish them as adults.

 

[Herd Fever]

This thread is hilarious.

You have Athiest who don't understand the prophecies of Bible and the Spiritual world but yet wants to act like they know everything.

You have Sunday Believers who don't follow the commands of God. Who don't honor the Sabbath, who don't honor the Passover, and who don't recognize God the Mother(No not the Virgin Mary)

And then you have a scientologist.

Where is my popcorn?? People seriously need to read their Bible and read it with someone who recognizes the Sabbath atleast.

 

[Herd Fever]

Stop waiting for someone to tell you what's in the Bible, read it for yourself. That is the problem with most people today who claim they are Christians.

God is a God of love and compassion but God is also your parents and just like when you don't listen to your parents. God can be very vengeful and serve Justice.

Today is a very religious day as it is the second Passover for all the people who couldn't take part in the first Passover. But I venture to bet nobody on here knew about the second Passover.

 

[Walden Pond]

You have Athiest who don't understand the prophecies of Bible and the Spiritual world but yet wants to act like they know everything.

So true.

It was really more interesting back when I acted like I didn't know stuff. When I thought maybe it was real. There was a time. Even as old as 19-20, I still thought it might be real.

Mother's Day sealed it for me. Telling me to honor her. Then when I went home that day, she bummed me for money back when I was just a broke ass college kid. I cussed her out and said to hell with church for good.

Thing about it is though, I'd like to go see her this Sunday. I probably won't, but I'd like to. Of all the family I've told to leave me the hell alone, she's the only one left who still calls. She's the only one left with hope that I'll change. Of course I won't, but she still has hope.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Not illogical. If 3rd graders are evil sociopaths that knowingly commit atrocities, then punish them as adults.

It's a false equivalent, as God's law and American law are not the same.

That said, if you think I have a moral issue with giving a life sentence to a sociopathic third grader that committed an atrocity, well you are wrong.

 

[extragreen]

It's a false equivalent, as God's law and American law are not the same.

That said, if you think I have a moral issue with giving a life sentence to a sociopathic third grader that committed an atrocity, well you are wrong.

No it's not. I didn't say life sentence, I said capital punishment as in electrocution, hanging, etc. You ok with that?

 

[sistersville]

An example of how an older person can be like a child. When a child prays for something they 100% believe they will receive what they prayed for. We adults should pray with the same faith a child FEELS when they pray.

 

[sistersville]

We as christians are told to obey the law of the land until it contradicts with the word of God. That is why christians on the whole dont believe in abortion.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

No it's not.

Like a lot of things you think (Scientology not a religion), you can say it all day, it still won't make you right. It's a false equivalency. Even if it were not, you would get little jolly in my answer as I really don't support capital punishment under our current legal system...of course you assumed otherwise.

 

[Herd Fever]

We as christians are told to obey the law of the land until it contradicts with the word of God. That is why christians on the whole dont believe in abortion.

I believe in Abortion and I am very Pro-choice. No where in the Bible says anything about Abortion. Just another lie by the Catholics

 

[Herd Fever]

No it's not. I didn't say life sentence, I said capital punishment as in electrocution, hanging, etc. You ok with that?

If a 3rd grader went out and killed a bunch of people, hell yea I think they should hang for what they did. They made an adult decision then they should receive an adult punishment.

 

[Herd Fever]

The God says a child should be baptized, then I'm sure he would approve the punishment of the land of a child who kills.

Remember when the Pharasis tried to trick Jesus regarding Taxes what was his response "Pay to Ceasar what is owed to Ceasar, and Pay to God what is paid to God. The laws of the Land is the Laws of the Land. God's Law is God's Law."

 

[Walden Pond]

It's been a while since I've had Little Caesar's. The square pieces. I think they're closing the K-Mart here that has one in it so looks like I'm SOL on that one.

Then again, having K-Mart close more than makes up for it. You know sometimes I still go in there and think about buying something? Until I find out that they have one lane open with 15 people in line. No self checkouts and they ask 30 questions per customer no matter how long the line is. Good riddance.

K-Mart sucks.

 

[Herd Fever]

Thats under the old law before God came to Earth and died to cover their sin. Rifle surely you know that.

Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the old law, he came to fulfill the Prophecy. Surely you know that??

 

[extragreen]

Like a lot of things you think (Scientology not a religion), you can say it all day, it still won't make you right. It's a false equivalency. Even if it were not, you would get little jolly in my answer as I really don't support capital punishment under our current legal system...of course you assumed otherwise.

No. It's not. If you think a child is accountable to God for their actions with the punishment being torment, certainly you would think they would be accountable to a lesser power with the punishment being only body death. And I have read instances in your posts that you agreed with the death sentence.

 

[Herd Fever]

But a child is accountable for their actions under God? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

[extragreen]

If a 3rd grader went out and killed a bunch of people, hell yea I think they should hang for what they did. They made an adult decision then they should receive an adult punishment.

Why not crucify the 3rd grader? I'm sure that's what Jesus would do.

 

[extragreen]

The God says a child should be baptized,

But God didn't say for children to be baptized.

 

[extragreen]

Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the old law, he came to fulfill the Prophecy. Surely you know that??

Surely you know that the old law is no longer in effect. That covenant has been replaced.

 

[extragreen]

But a child is accountable for their actions under God? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Children do not go to torment if they die as a child.