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climate change goes from warning to reality

dherd

Platinum Buffalo
Feb 23, 2007
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For decades, as the global warming created by human emissions caused land ice to melt and ocean water to expand, scientists warned that the accelerating rise of the sea would eventually imperil the United States’ coastline.

Now, those warnings are no longer theoretical: The inundation of the coast has begun. The sea has crept up to the point that a high tide and a brisk wind are all it takes to send water pouring into streets and homes.

“Once impacts become noticeable, they’re going to be upon you quickly,” said William V. Sweet, a scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Silver Spring, Md., who is among the leaders in research on coastal inundation. “It’s not a hundred years off — it’s now.”

NORFOLK, Va. — Huge vertical rulers are sprouting beside low spots in the streets here, so people can judge if the tidal floods that increasingly inundate their roads are too deep to drive through.

Five hundred miles down the Atlantic Coast, the only road to Tybee Island, Ga., is disappearing beneath the sea several times a year, cutting the town off from the mainland.

And another 500 miles on, in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., increased tidal flooding is forcing the city to spend millions fixing battered roads and drains — and, at times, to send out giant vacuum trucks to suck saltwater off the streets.


Federal scientists have documented a sharp jump in this nuisance flooding — often called “sunny-day flooding” — along both the East Coast and the Gulf Coast in recent years. The sea is now so near the brim in many places that they believe the problem is likely to worsen quickly. Shifts in the Pacific Ocean mean that the West Coast, partly spared over the past two decades, may be hit hard, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/s...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
 
Global warning is a hoax. I bet you could read that on Snoopes. LOl
 
I'll say this much: don't buy a used car from SE Florida. It's not uncommon for people there to wake up and find their cars and homes sitting in a foot of salt water. Things are changing.

Things are definitely changing Duke, while many allow their ideology to convince them differently. The increasing ocean temperatures is going to create some really strange weather. But you already know that with your knowledge of severe weather.

In addition we are witnessing the destruction of our coral reefs globally. Rising ocean temperatures not only fuel severe weather but it's a threat to the oceans ecosystem as well. We are already seeing signs of a mass extinction event.

But hey...if dherd believes it it can't be true, right? Every conservative knows that what is right and what is wrong is the opposite of liberal causes. And trust me that ain't an endorsement of liberals. They just happen to be coming down correctly on this issue.
 
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This article pointing to yet another Obama failure.( "Lowering the sea levels")

No one whose tried to have an honest dialogue here is suggesting climate change isn't happening. (Because it's always been changing). How many times do you think the shorelines have changed due to climate variations? (Some scientists believe NC's alone is estimated to have had at least 8 major variations over hundreds of millions of years).

Lucky for us all, liberals think they (along with their "one world" govts and crony capitalists) can alter the climate. Plus the Pope believes it. It must be true. We will all be saved! Lol.
 
"Fossils found in the Gobi Desert include dinosaurs, whales, penguins, crocodiles..."

had there just been a human government around back then to properly tax the animals their ocean (now turned desert) would still be flourishing....
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Scientists cannot accurately predict weather out more that a few days so why would anyone think they have proven that climate change is man-made, especially when climate change has occurred naturally for the history of the earth? Temperature records don't prove anything. There is a lot of money to be made on this and huge leverage by big government control freaks who can use this to dictate every aspect of your life so I am suspicious. The facts aren't convincing at all. Why did the control freaks change the name from global warming to climate change? Because all the cold weather made people realize that global warming wasn't really happening anything near what the control freaks were claiming
 
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It's hard to have a serious discussion if you believe weather and climate are the same thing.

Climate is predictable. I can guarantee you that winter in Indiana will be cooler than summer. Want to bet against that? In the big picture, weather is simply a series of small changes and events. Even the largest hurricane is simply a small area of low pressure that encountered favorable conditions for increased convection and organization.

We know that outside of incredible outside influence (giant volcanic eruption, a damn asteroid hitting the Earth, etc) climate changes slowly. It's not the change that's alarming, it's the speed of the changes. And the changes align with a measurable outside influence. The details are reams of data, but the idea is very simple.

Eight coastal variations over hundreds of millions of years? That alone should show you that changes that are not incredibly slow are not normal.

Personally I think it's too late, unless we manage to harness fusion power. We are not going to produce enough power with wind and solar , and we sure as hell are not going backwards to an agrarian world. I am not that worried about the USA, we will find a way to move large numbers of people out of the low lying east coast. We will find a way to pipe water to the Plains after we drain the aquifiers. Other parts of the world, there are going to be major wars over resources and mass migration. But fvxk it, we will all be dead by then, kick the can down the road.
 
It's hard to have a serious discussion if you believe weather and climate are the same thing.

Climate is predictable. I can guarantee you that winter in Indiana will be cooler than summer. Want to bet against that? In the big picture, weather is simply a series of small changes and events. Even the largest hurricane is simply a small area of low pressure that encountered favorable conditions for increased convection and organization.

We know that outside of incredible outside influence (giant volcanic eruption, a damn asteroid hitting the Earth, etc) climate changes slowly. It's not the change that's alarming, it's the speed of the changes. And the changes align with a measurable outside influence. The details are reams of data, but the idea is very simple.

Eight coastal variations over hundreds of millions of years? That alone should show you that changes that are not incredibly slow are not normal.

Personally I think it's too late, unless we manage to harness fusion power. We are not going to produce enough power with wind and solar , and we sure as hell are not going backwards to an agrarian world. I am not that worried about the USA, we will find a way to move large numbers of people out of the low lying east coast. We will find a way to pipe water to the Plains after we drain the aquifiers. Other parts of the world, there are going to be major wars over resources and mass migration. But fvxk it, we will all be dead by then, kick the can down the road.

Dang...someone actually gets it. How do you argue with someone who runs to Facebook every time it snows to discredit global warming? Here's the thing that those who said the earth has been through climate change before...of course it has. But never when man was here. And almost all increases in global temperatures has been followed by mass extinction. The fossil records are clear on that.

But why does it matter whether the carbon was put there by volcanic activity or man? Either way carbon produces the same effect. Here's the deal...homo sapiens has been on this earth for about 200,000 years. Their predecessors go back several million more. Atmospheric carbon can be measured directly for 800,000 years in trapped air of ice cores. Measurement goes back further through proxy measurements such as sediment core. In the entire lifetime of man the atmospheric carbon count has been between 180 to 220 ppm. That isn't a computer model, that's a direct measurement. Over 800,000 years it stayed that rate. It stayed that rate for 600,000 years prior to the arrival of home sapiens and over 790,000 years since the dawn of civilization. But guess when it started to spike? In the latter half of the 1800s coinciding with the beginning of the Industrial Age.

In 2016 carbon in the atmosphere reached 400 ppm for the first time since man walked the earth. To go back to the last time carbon was 400 ppm you have to go back to the late Pliosene to the early Pleitocene which was 2.5 to 3.5 million years ago. The earth was a different place then. It isn't volcanic activity that caused the first major spike in millions of years...that era has passed. It isn't solar activity like you pointed out...we're in a quiet period. It isn't thermal vent activity...that's been tested. Although methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon, it only represents a fraction of the threat carbon does in the atmosphere because there isn't as much being pumped in. Carbon is being put there by man and has reached levels never seen in the history of us.

Here's the thing. Life will survive. Humans likely will as well. But trust me if this thing gets out of hand we're talking about the potential loss of our food supply as extinction occurs and our food chain deteriorates to the point we can't feed the billions of people who live here. But just because it won't be in our lifetime and likely is centuries in the future, doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
 
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If the entire U.S. shut down its non-nuclear power tomorrow and every car stopped running the increase in India, China, and other nations in Asia would make up our loss in a decade, at the slowest.

Climate change is also a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem.

Ted Danson said the U.S. would cease to exist by 2003 if we didn't do something in 1988. Al Gore promised that Manhattan would be flooded by 2015. Years and years of insane hyperbole has rendered meaningful discussion impossible on this, as has NIMBY's and Rachel Carsonites hatred of perfectly safe and clean Nuclear power.
 
If the entire U.S. shut down its non-nuclear power tomorrow and every car stopped running the increase in India, China, and other nations in Asia would make up our loss in a decade, at the slowest.

Climate change is also a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem.

Ted Danson said the U.S. would cease to exist by 2003 if we didn't do something in 1988. Al Gore promised that Manhattan would be flooded by 2015. Years and years of insane hyperbole has rendered meaningful discussion impossible on this, as has NIMBY's and Rachel Carsonites hatred of perfectly safe and clean Nuclear power.

It's a shame hyperbole prevails on both sides of this. And I agree that the US can't stop it alone. It will take a world wide effort. Canada is lagging on this though. It isn't hard to figure out why. It starts with "Keystone" and ends with "pipeline".

I'm really pessimistic that anything meaningful will be accomplished. Developing countries will point to the unfettered historical growth of the US energy economy and say...the US was the major contributor historically to the problem, why do we have to pay the price. Canada is looking out for their economic interest. Ditto for China and US. I think we might have a better chance of developing technology that can filter the carbon quicker than we can convince people that they need to take a hit economically...especially if the impact will only be realized by those long after every person now living is gone.
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But just because it won't be in our lifetime and likely is centuries in the future, doesn't mean we shouldn't care.

What does that even mean or do? People say this all the time. Nobody cares about them, they say. What is this caring? Caring about them. Is it caring for them? No. Just caring about them.

Is it just sympathy? Hell, that's free and can be (often is) faked.
 
What does that even mean or do? People say this all the time. Nobody cares about them, they say. What is this caring? Caring about them. Is it caring for them? No. Just caring about them.

Is it just sympathy? Hell, that's free and can be (often is) faked.

Lost me.
 
I got sunburned at the game yesterday and there's nothing on TV worth a damn. Notre Dame and Texas, couple of has been teams.

I guess that's what I really care about. Not future generations.
 
The simple truth is that there is a cap on the number of people the planet can support, and we are at, or near, that number. Every additional person means more food production, more required manufacturing, and more breathing.

As far as filtering carbon, isn't that what trees and other such green things are for? The government owns billions of unforested acres. Let's hire some illegals to go plant trees all over them.
 
The simple truth is that there is a cap on the number of people the planet can support, and we are at, or near, that number. Every additional person means more food production, more required manufacturing, and more breathing.

As far as filtering carbon, isn't that what trees and other such green things are for? The government owns billions of unforested acres. Let's hire some illegals to go plant trees all over them.

I say deport cabinet makers...they are using too much timber.
 
So is the goal here to prolong this thing as long as we can at the expense of it being worth a damn? What good is living if we get to where you can barely do anything since it all causes global warming?

Not only that, but it is kind of ironic that the same people who don't care about aborting future generations are all about this preserving the earth stuff. It's all just a bullshit social club where the top dog laughs at all the idiots who agree to the stupid rules.
 
So is the goal here to prolong this thing as long as we can at the expense of it being worth a damn? What good is living if we get to where you can barely do anything since it all causes global warming?

Not only that, but it is kind of ironic that the same people who don't care about aborting future generations are all about this preserving the earth stuff. It's all just a bullshit social club where the top dog laughs at all the idiots who agree to the stupid rules.


This is, seriously, a great post.
 
That's why I'm glad Walden is back. One of the smartest guys on the board with a certain George Carlin observational slant.
 
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“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or.........screw that...... we want to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children we didn't want to burden ourselves with taking care of the earth, so it's up to you kids to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and fix the problems caused by our mindless indulgence. Your problem now.

______Ronald Reagan/Walden
 
I got sunburned at the game yesterday and there's nothing on TV worth a damn. Notre Dame and Texas, couple of has been teams.

I guess that's what I really care about. Not future generations.


If you're talking about the Reds game against the Cards, I was there as well. The secret for 1:10 games is to sit on 1st base side row AA or higher. Cool as could be all game.
 
So is the goal here to prolong this thing as long as we can at the expense of it being worth a damn? What good is living if we get to where you can barely do anything since it all causes global warming?

Not only that, but it is kind of ironic that the same people who don't care about aborting future generations are all about this preserving the earth stuff. It's all just a bullshit social club where the top dog laughs at all the idiots who agree to the stupid rules.

Im sure the goal for some is to mess with our standard of living. I'm sure if you look among certain liberal elites you will find those who don't care as much about saving a planet as they do about taking down big oil. But their petty ideological ideas don't change the science nor does it negate the concern. And great catch on the fact that liberals support abortion but worry about future generations. There certainly is some hypocrisy there. But again...it doesn't change the science. And it certainly doesn't negate the validity of global warming.

As far as the bs social clubs of laughing elitist....I'm not sure. I'm still trying to locate the illuminati.
 
"And great catch on the fact that liberals support abortion but worry about future generations. There certainly is some hypocrisy there."

There are many liberals who support abortion RIGHTS, not abortion. There are a fair number of conservatives who agree. So, not as much hypocrisy as you might think. And as you've seen in this thread, there are many conservatives who are not pro life, they are pro birth, distinguished by the fact that as soon as a child exits the womb, they are on their own.
 
Oh my gosh. It floods in coastal areas.

In other news it is cold in the North Pole.

It is all cycles of mother nature, worry about something else.
 
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;);)
If you're talking about the Reds game against the Cards, I was there as well. The secret for 1:10 games is to sit on 1st base side row AA or higher. Cool as could be all game.


Believe he was talking about Ohio Stadium, I was there Saturday and it was pleasant for football despite being the middle of summer. Of course waldens seat are probably closer to the sun than mine. ;)
 
"And great catch on the fact that liberals support abortion but worry about future generations. There certainly is some hypocrisy there."

There are many liberals who support abortion RIGHTS, not abortion. There are a fair number of conservatives who agree. So, not as much hypocrisy as you might think. And as you've seen in this thread, there are many conservatives who are not pro life, they are pro birth, distinguished by the fact that as soon as a child exits the womb, they are on their own.

I don't totally disagree with that actually. I probably would have represented my statement better by adding "some" in front of "liberals"

For me personally I have conflicting views on abortion. The science purist part of me says that we really don't know at what point we cross the line from cell mass to viable human life. There isn't a manual that explains these things. (And I fully understand I'm teeing this up for the "bible" reply.)

But as a father of four girls I can't imagine how unenriched my life would be without them. So from a personal standpoint I could never support abortion. But since I can't draw that line of distinction on other people's lives I just follow my own instinct and let others decide for themselves. If one of my daughters came to me considering abortion I would honestly try to talk them out if it.
 
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Oh my gosh. It floods in coastal areas.

In other news it is cold in the North Pole.

It is all cycles of mother nature, worry about something else.

So...this increase in carbon that has occurred since the dawn of Industrial Age is a natural cycle? In past history the carbon entered the atmosphere due to very distinct reasons...pre photosynthetic land and oceans, tectonic plate activity, volcanoes, etc. So...where is this magical cyclic carbon coming from today? Not volcanos...proven. Not tectonic plate activity and thermal vents...proven. Not lack of planetary vegetation...still plenty.

We know how much carbon we are putting in the air. It's a quantifiable number. We measure the saturation at points all over the world including antarctica where the saturation went over 400 ppm in the first time since man walked the earth. Antarctica...so we can't blame the measurement on local concentration.

But your reply is some flippant conservative answer that totally ignores science and reality. But that's ok for you. You have enough people who also are ideologically driven to the point that you will be patted in the back with your answer and high fived. That's enough for you to continue to spout the same nonsensical stuff that has zero basis in science. Talk about a boys club of self validation.

Seriously...Id love to drink a beer with you and argue as much as anyone here. But why not try to read up on the issue...really learn about it outside of the self perpetuation stuff spewed by the ideological mainstream.
 
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"If you’re still inclined to believe what Al Gore has to say about global warming, please consider the fact that since he embarked on his crusade, his wealth has grown from $2 million in 2001 to $100 million in 2016"

wait.... people are getting rich off of this stuff????

next you'll tell me Hillary's server had something other than pics of the grand kids and wedding plans.......
 
"If you’re still inclined to believe what Al Gore has to say about global warming, please consider the fact that since he embarked on his crusade, his wealth has grown from $2 million in 2001 to $100 million in 2016"

wait.... people are getting rich off of this stuff????

next you'll tell me Hillary's server had something other than pics of the grand kids and wedding plans.......
Al Gore uses a truckload of energy powering up his house and flying all over making a pile of money to spew false hoods.
 
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Oh, and about that picture of the sun in the article taken by NASA, I watched a great presentation by a NASA guy who said all the pictures they take are black and white and that the color is added for drama and effect because people find B&W pictures "boring".
 
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