Yup. Win 8 a year & every bowl game and they'll let Doc keep the seat warm until Pennington says he wants it.
I’m done with John Holiday.
- Thread starter marshallisqbu
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The issue is more about who doesn't make it rather then the number that don't make it. In that 15 class Bailey, Von Davis, and Howard were three of the highest rated recruits and all played in the defensive backfield, which was a glaring weakness for us this year.
I wonder what our class rank would be if we took out the guys that never stepped on the field.
I wonder what our class rank would be if we took out the guys that never stepped on the field.
Thanks Josh. Just confirms what I was trying to get across. MU coaches expended a lot of time, effort, energy and resources, i.e., $$$$$, recruiting about 15 players in a class of 25 who, when it counted, game day, contributed NOTHING, zero, zilch, nada, to MU football.
One player, Weems, came from a perennial power, Tucker HS, in the Atlanta area. Don't believe he played more than a season. Never on the field that much no matter how many years he stayed at MU.
There were 37 recruits in that class when you add in NQs and blueshirts. Only 25 recruits could legally be announced. You cited one of the worst classes Doc had in terms of retention at MU to support your argument, but the average retention rate is much higher than that during Doc's tenure with the rate being around 57%. That's not great but it is much better than the percentages you stated. All three JUCOs in the 2015 class completed their eligibility and graduated after 2 years in the program. We also had 3 transfers in the class with one graduating at MU, one going to the NFL to play for the Packers, and one that transferred again to be a starting QB at the FCS level. In regards to the other 31 recruits in the class, we had 25 enroll at MU with 10 of those recruits still in the program while Litton left for the NFL after 3.5 years. So out of 31 enrolled recruits in the class, 14 are on the roster or completed their eligibility, and 2 went to the NFL.
The ranking might have been a little lower, but 12 of 16 3-star recruits still enrolled so we would still have been about #3 in CUSA behind Patridge's FAU and Holtz's La Tech classes.
Uhm...maybe because he likes it here? You know you don't have to announce a team is looking at you, you could also, just kindly tell them you're not interested. People say Doc not getting hired out says he can't coach or that he's bad at it...really? Monken got hired to the NFL after a 9-5 season at USM. Derek Dooley got hired by Tennessee after going 4-8. Just 2 examples I could think of off the top of my head. The idea is that you really don't have to be anything special to get looked at and I think Doc has been approached but he quietly and politely told them, "No thank you."
Funny how people would want a younger coach to be here for 3 years then leave, but when we find a coach (despite being older) who actually likes it here, they seem unable to grasp that concept.
Any available & affordable coaches on YOUR short list?
HerdZilla22 (G Sweeney) in Charlotte
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The list is probably too extensive for guys that could win 60% of their games and give us one conference championship in a decade. For 800 grand a year, I bet there are many.
$800K is no great package for today's Head coaches. Appy States's Scott Satterfield was making that much PLUS more $$$ from TV/Radio. He became an overnight Millionaire when he signed at Louisville......$1.7 Million salary & $1.7 Million from his TV/Radio package. That amounts to around $3.4 Million/yearly and he has not coached one contest or recruited one player! He is know AS A PLAYERS Coach and a Fans darling and presents himself very well without cursing in public.
I like Doc, however, The HERD continues to defeat teams with losing records and shows little success winning against squads that win more than they lose....ie, NC State & MTSU.
A quick google search showed holidays salary is 600 K and the Appy State Coach makes a salary of 425K
TOTAL PACKAGE.......is GREATER! Believe me, some coaches get housing allowances and FREE autos to drive......happens at Marshall right now!
I know many donors from Appy State.....don't believe your Google search!
HerdZilla22
BOONE – The new five-year contract for Appalachian State football coach Scott Satterfield has extended his previous deal by a year and provided him with annual salary increases ranging from roughly an additional $115,000 in 2017 to nearly an additional $200,000 by the start of 2021.
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Here is Satterfields contract. Doc is doing pretty well.
App State announced a new contract last week and released it Tuesday, posting it on the school's official athletics site.
Satterfield is set to make a base salary of $425,000 for each of the next five years he's coaching the Mountaineers. The new deal includes use of a company car or a car allowance worth $600 a month, monthly retention bonuses that will surpass $150,000 annually while increasing each calendar year and six-figure "annual fund" compensation that will increase each year based on Satterfield's appearances at fundraising or promotional events tied primarily to the Yosef Club.
Before incentive-based bonuses connected to on-field performance, academic achievement, attendance and scheduling are considered, Satterfield would earn $664,583 in 2017, $712,500 in 2018, $750,375 in 2019, $788,644 in 2020 and $827,325 in 2021.
The monthly retention bonuses start at $12,500 a month for the remainder of 2017 and climb to $15,193.83 a month by 2021. The annual fund payments begin at $100,000 a year for 2017 and rise to $220,000 a year by 2021.
Under his previous contract, which was signed in October 2015 and ran through 2020 instead of 2021, Satterfield was set to have a base salary of $425,000 for 2017, with a $25,000 annual raise and a yearly retention bonus of $125,000. That contract didn't have increasing retention bonuses, annual fund compensation or car allowances.
According to the old contract, before any incentive-based bonuses, Satterfield would have made $550,000 in 2017, $575,000 in 2018, $600,000 in 2019 and $625,000 in 2020.
The old contract included a buyout regularly matching that year's base salary if Satterfield left to coach elsewhere, and the conditions are similar in the new
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There are MANY others in this group that need banned who post MUCH worse comments than Gary Sweeney....at least IMO!!!!!
Well, if you want to go to the link to complete the application to become a moderator on here and help me out, I am willing to take a look at it.
I know many MU donors that don't know squat and/or are full of it like gossiping old women. Why should we believe that a crazy old man like you happens to know the Appy donors in the know?
The issue I have is that Doc can load up NQ's, who supposedly are more talented. The other schools can't or won't - which in theory gives us a huge advantage. Not to mention our facilities are the best in the league for the most part. Yet, only one league title. That's clearly on the staff for lack of player development or not recruiting the type of kids we need in order to win.
This post hit me hard.
I’ve heard it said that a head coach is only as good as those that surround him. Then maybe there’s some truth to some of what is said here. The Joan is never full. It appears that Huntington IS less and less excited about our team. Just read the board. You won’t find many positive perspectives. And the bottom line is if fans are saying the games aren’t fun to watch and the atmosphere at the stadium is lacking, then something has to happen to bring about some improvement. What is that something?
We all want a successful program here with a fan base proud to support it.
Do not forget the Walk-ons DOC brings in ............they are also recruited...
Ah, the narrative of Doc and Marshall...
I think its because MU fans didn't want anyone else but their own to coach the team.
Bring in someone who couldn't be more of an outsider than a wvu grad.
Already, for some, Doc is in a no win situation.
Doc gets the grace period to make us winning again and does it relatively quickly when compared to previous regimes but not as much in dominating fashion as they are used to.
People begin to speculate why this is...and speculation becomes passed off as "Well I heard from _____."
People began to slowly consider Doc not a good coach...but they really didn't have much to base that off of.
Then 2016 happens and it absolutely confirms, after 6 years of complaining about uniforms, end of game scores, 2 minute pieces of games somewhere middle of the 2015 season, etc., a collective FINALLY have their proof that Doc is terrible.
People flood MU message boards with hopes of firing a coach who had a losing season...and a bad one at that.
You have people starting gofundme campaigns in Barboursville calling for raising money to buyout Doc's contract (if I recall correctly, they raised maybe $250 out of a few hundred thousand if not a million dollar buyout).
Even Jim Justice plays into their contempt for Doc, using Pruett to tap into their minds the glory of 1999...and potential for it to happen again. Forgetting or ignoring it was a campaign publicity stunt because Pruett could say "losing is good" and people would eat it up. Pruett, discussing the idea of returning excites the fanbase, but Hamrick and even Gilbert hold out.
This irritates the populace, they want Doc gone...2016 finally confirmed their beliefs.
Doc is granted a chance to turn this mess around.
8-5 with wins over superior teams and actual efforts against the bigger competition.
People grumbled about the offense...Doc lets Legg go. Hires SHS' OC who has proven offenses.
Doc gets 2 QB's to battle for the starting spot and it polarizes the fans.
Blame the QB's shoulder or the QB's youth...pick one, it was perfect for the seasoned complaining veterans...and it all connected back to Doc.
But he managed to improve again...9-4.
Thing is, Doc's been more loyal to MU than the previous 2 coaches. Pruett bolted and left the team in disarray, and Snyder never believed in the team to begin with.
Doc has stuck around much longer than a coach should at the G5 level.
Nobody really knows, with proof, Doc hasn't been contacted by other schools for potential positions.
But we do know one thing, he's still here.
People can say "Why would anyone hire him? He's a terrible coach!!"
You mean to tell me nobody would hire someone with his credentials for any position at all? Bill Legg got hired...all his staff get hired, there's no doubt he likely could land a higher paying job for less responsibility...Heater did that.
Maybe he is terrible and nobody would want him.
Or maybe he's just happy and content here. He's not gonna win it all every year, but I doubt he's ever wanting to repeat 2016...despite people STILL citing 2016 in 2019 as a reason for Doc to be fired.
Its weird how MU fans complained about Randy Moss' lack of loyalty to MU in his NFL HoF speech not mentioning MU...
But are complaining that Doc has shown some sense of loyalty by not leaving.
So one can see why its unexciting...because some of you want it to be.
Fans embraced the hell out of the Golden Retriever personality of D'Antoni...but he's been crapping the bed lately.
However, optimism remains strong because "its exciting basketball!!" Forgetting its been resulting in losing...a lot lately.
Doc loses by 10 to conference runner up MTSU,
"Fire Doc!!! Season is over!!!" "Its 2016 all over again."
Dan loses by 50 to USM (who isn't good),
"Stay the course! I believe in this team!!!" "Wait till the conference tournament!"
"For those 2 minutes, Marshall was on the ropes at ODU...they so should've lost!!! No, I don't care that they ended up winning 42-20!!! Those 2 minutes proved Doc can't coach!!"
"Did you see that 25 footer Elmore made??? Yeah...we lost by 22, but I like the intensity of the team!!! I hope we catch fire in the conference tournament."
Fans need to ask themselves if they want entertainment or if they want winning.
Also ask yourselves why you keep looking to the past in football to complain and look to the future in basketball to be optimistic.
I think its because MU fans didn't want anyone else but their own to coach the team.
Bring in someone who couldn't be more of an outsider than a wvu grad.
Already, for some, Doc is in a no win situation.
Doc gets the grace period to make us winning again and does it relatively quickly when compared to previous regimes but not as much in dominating fashion as they are used to.
People begin to speculate why this is...and speculation becomes passed off as "Well I heard from _____."
People began to slowly consider Doc not a good coach...but they really didn't have much to base that off of.
Then 2016 happens and it absolutely confirms, after 6 years of complaining about uniforms, end of game scores, 2 minute pieces of games somewhere middle of the 2015 season, etc., a collective FINALLY have their proof that Doc is terrible.
People flood MU message boards with hopes of firing a coach who had a losing season...and a bad one at that.
You have people starting gofundme campaigns in Barboursville calling for raising money to buyout Doc's contract (if I recall correctly, they raised maybe $250 out of a few hundred thousand if not a million dollar buyout).
Even Jim Justice plays into their contempt for Doc, using Pruett to tap into their minds the glory of 1999...and potential for it to happen again. Forgetting or ignoring it was a campaign publicity stunt because Pruett could say "losing is good" and people would eat it up. Pruett, discussing the idea of returning excites the fanbase, but Hamrick and even Gilbert hold out.
This irritates the populace, they want Doc gone...2016 finally confirmed their beliefs.
Doc is granted a chance to turn this mess around.
8-5 with wins over superior teams and actual efforts against the bigger competition.
People grumbled about the offense...Doc lets Legg go. Hires SHS' OC who has proven offenses.
Doc gets 2 QB's to battle for the starting spot and it polarizes the fans.
Blame the QB's shoulder or the QB's youth...pick one, it was perfect for the seasoned complaining veterans...and it all connected back to Doc.
But he managed to improve again...9-4.
Thing is, Doc's been more loyal to MU than the previous 2 coaches. Pruett bolted and left the team in disarray, and Snyder never believed in the team to begin with.
Doc has stuck around much longer than a coach should at the G5 level.
Nobody really knows, with proof, Doc hasn't been contacted by other schools for potential positions.
But we do know one thing, he's still here.
People can say "Why would anyone hire him? He's a terrible coach!!"
You mean to tell me nobody would hire someone with his credentials for any position at all? Bill Legg got hired...all his staff get hired, there's no doubt he likely could land a higher paying job for less responsibility...Heater did that.
Maybe he is terrible and nobody would want him.
Or maybe he's just happy and content here. He's not gonna win it all every year, but I doubt he's ever wanting to repeat 2016...despite people STILL citing 2016 in 2019 as a reason for Doc to be fired.
Its weird how MU fans complained about Randy Moss' lack of loyalty to MU in his NFL HoF speech not mentioning MU...
But are complaining that Doc has shown some sense of loyalty by not leaving.
So one can see why its unexciting...because some of you want it to be.
Fans embraced the hell out of the Golden Retriever personality of D'Antoni...but he's been crapping the bed lately.
However, optimism remains strong because "its exciting basketball!!" Forgetting its been resulting in losing...a lot lately.
Doc loses by 10 to conference runner up MTSU,
"Fire Doc!!! Season is over!!!" "Its 2016 all over again."
Dan loses by 50 to USM (who isn't good),
"Stay the course! I believe in this team!!!" "Wait till the conference tournament!"
"For those 2 minutes, Marshall was on the ropes at ODU...they so should've lost!!! No, I don't care that they ended up winning 42-20!!! Those 2 minutes proved Doc can't coach!!"
"Did you see that 25 footer Elmore made??? Yeah...we lost by 22, but I like the intensity of the team!!! I hope we catch fire in the conference tournament."
Fans need to ask themselves if they want entertainment or if they want winning.
Also ask yourselves why you keep looking to the past in football to complain and look to the future in basketball to be optimistic.
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Its selective...people will look at MU losing to MTSU by 10 as a terrible loss and a pathetic football team.
But they'll look at a losing streak and say "Well...the schedule was hard...too many away games."
I met Doc on the OV back in November. The stability was a selling point for us after our older son went through a coaching change after he freshman season. The entire staff other than 1 coach left, who left the following season.
Doc LOVES Marshall and wants to be here. He said for him it's not about money. it's about being somewhere you love being. We had P5 schools we could have gone to, but those teams are in the middle of their conferences or had coaching changes in the middle of the season this year. The fans always want more. If Duke lost to UNC every year but still won 10 games a season the coach would be gone. The chance to play for a coach who believes in the school and the players was a huge plus. The opportunity to have a legitimate chance to win the conference and play in a bowl game every season put Marshall over the top.
Doc LOVES Marshall and wants to be here. He said for him it's not about money. it's about being somewhere you love being. We had P5 schools we could have gone to, but those teams are in the middle of their conferences or had coaching changes in the middle of the season this year. The fans always want more. If Duke lost to UNC every year but still won 10 games a season the coach would be gone. The chance to play for a coach who believes in the school and the players was a huge plus. The opportunity to have a legitimate chance to win the conference and play in a bowl game every season put Marshall over the top.
Filling the joan is a fan problem, a marketing problem. Doc has been forced to play a grind it out style the last few years, its what he had to work with, so that's what he did. One bad season doesn't define the coach he is, actually its almost as amazing to go 8-5 in 2017 as it was to go 10-4 in 2013, overcoming prior season issues. The league has caught up in talent and upgraded in coaches, especially the FL schools, but yet the fanbase is ignorant of that, all they see if we used to blast UNCC, ODU, FIU etc, they don't get that other programs can and do improve. Not filling the joan is a fan issue, right down to the core, blast me for saying it if you want, but that's what I see. If the fans want a good product on the field, they need to be in the stands supporting the programs because we sure aren't getting squat with any TV deal. Enough said.
The fans do support the program and always have. We’re 2nd in the league for fan generated revenue. Our BG is one of the largest booster clubs in tbe league. All this despite being in the most economically depressed area of the league.
If anyone thinks we are gonna average 30K or close in this day and age, they’re delusional. The 99 team only averaged a bit over 28K. The fans support the program well.
The AD needs to figure out that college sports is now entertainment. It’s not all about the game anymore for many. It’s about the experience and enjoying the time spent.
From reading this thread, it would seem that "everybody" is fed up with the state of the football program and the basketball program and want the coaches gone. The game has passed them by. Blah, blah, blah. Problem is "everybody" can be defined as about a half dozen negative nellies on this board who never have any good thoughts. They just want to stoke the fire. I truly don't believe they speak for the majority of herd nation.
I have been sick for about the last month so had lots of time on my hands and have Youtubed old WVU end of the season highlights. The one thing that sticks out is just how much talent Nehlen had in the late 90's and all those teams under achieved(Nehlen had over 30 kids in the NFL in the late 90's at once). Those teams had Doc Holiday's recruiting finger prints all over them. The teams were made of up of mostly NQ'ers and South Florida kids(lots of high risk kids that never made it). Those teams appeared to have discipline and character issues both on and off the field but the biggest issues I noticed is those teams had problems staying focused, played with no self discipline, and had trouble playing through adversity. Those teams were very frustrating to watch and you never knew if the good WVU team was showing up on a Saturday or the undisciplined low energy was coming to play. In closing Doc and Nehlen parted ways in the late 90's and very little was discussed why he left. Bottom line, just like Don, Doc will win big about once every 5 years and the rest will be average results. Doc is due for a break out year very soon if you look at history. I think its coming soon.
That may be true but 20k fans in games other than ncstate, FAU etc is ridiculous. I know we are among the top in the conference, but do you realize most schools don't have 10k butts in seats. Not much to compare to really
I can only control what I can control. I don't spend time worrying about it. Too many other things in life that are more important. We'll be fine. jmo.
Gutless wonders on this board. Stop hiding behind a message board. Go directly to the AD, Holiday, or all the way to the top. Speaking out behind a username or message board is cowardly....and that's being kind.
Everyone wants to talk about how bad the AD and MU are online...because typing out and reading a solution, to many, is the same as having actually done something.
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