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"I'm not a teacher for the money."

I’m not the one making the argument about legislatures 30 years ago. Go back and read the thread. Rifle and others were arguing that because of promises made by past administrations, that everyone agreed wages would remain constant as long as insurance premiums didn’t rise. I simply said they had no business making promises they can’t keep or speaking for future administrations. This legislature isn’t screwing anybody, but rather attempting to fix a problem that they didn’t create.

Good lord you are an idiot. The CURRENT legislature is not honoring prior commitments.

Yes, the current legislature is screwing the teachers and not honoring prior commitments.

They aren’t fixing anything. The current legislature has both held wages down and allowed insurance premiums to increase.
 
This isn’t foolish.

speaking specifically to teachers in the state of WV with my replies.

Compare those in the private sector with an advanced degree and 20 years of experience to a teacher with an advanced degree and 20 years of experience. Daily, teachers are working about 8 hours per day. They then average at least an hour a day on lesson plans, grades, communication with parents, etc. Basically, they work about as much as somebody in the private sector on days they work.

teachers get a planning period within the work day and they work 7 1/2 hours a day, not 8, which actually varies by county, i.e. some counties do make teachers work 8 hours, some doesn't. so, the idea they work more than 8 hours a day is horseshit. now, are there dedicated teachers that do? sure, but those are far and few in between. in fact, most times a teacher has to work over, they're paid an additional stipend. so, spare me the bullshit about them working over and above 8 hours or what they're expected to work.


Yes, teachers get more vacation time. It’s not quite a quarter of a year like you claim. But lets compare the daily life of each.

teachers get more than a quarter of a year off work, although it's not all paid vacation. they're on a 200 day contract and there's 261 week days in a year. 31% of the year they're not on the job. and, of the 200 day contract, they get as many as 4 personal days, upwards of 15 sick days, and 6 free days where schools are closed yet it's counted as a day worked - WV legislature gave them the free days, called OS (Outside School Environment) in lieu of a raise years ago. so, assuming they take the 4 personal and the 6 OS days, that's 5% of their contract they're not on the job but getting paid. count 'em up: they work 190 days, at most a year, and could work as few as 175 and still be paid for 200 days. and, there's more and more teachers calling in sick when they're not sick . . . and, fwiw, i don't blame them. teachers hired prior to a couple/three/four years ago get to use their sick leave balance when they retire toward purchasing insurance or increasing their retirement. the infinitely knowledgeable state legislature thought it'd be a good idea to save money by removing this benefit for teachers hired after that date, and these new hires are using those sick days whether sick, or not. and, fwiw, the healthy young kids out of college who've had everything given to them are too shortsighted to understand there could come a point in their life where they may be injured or get sick and may need 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 days off, so they're burning their sick days up annually and are part of the crowd working no more than 175 days a year, getting paid for 200.


In the private sector, one can easily browse online and post on message board for hours of the day. As a teacher? No way. Private sector, you can easily take a 90 minute lunch. Teachers? No way. Private sector allows leaving the office a few hours early to golf. Teaching? Nope. “Work” for salesman encompasses taking clients golfing, drinking, to businessman special day baseball games. Teachers? They’re still stuck doing actual work. Private sector? You can come in late, start the day off by “doing salescalls” before heading to the office (called sleeping in later). Teachers have no chance to do any of that. Agreed.

Now, reality is that teachers could about 2 months more of vacation time than private sector. But for what they’re paid compared to an equal in terms of education and experience in the private sector, they aren’t compensated the same. Teachers are paid for 200 days. So, look at their daily rate. If a teacher was on a 261 weekday salary, prorate it out from 200 days to 261 days, i.e. a $47K 200 day contract equates to a $61K 261 day contract. Not bad money for the number of employees in that specific business sector. on the flip side, this goes back to what you were saying above regarding vacation.

And for the health insurance/protesting . . . a key part is that these teacher unions have agreed to certain deals with the promise and assurance that benefits would be maintained at a reasonable cost. That promise has been tossed out the door. And, they should be pissed.

Imagine if you were hired with the agreement that your commission would be tiered. Then, when you hit the certain tiered levels, they changed their mind and reneged on the promise by not increasing the commission, even though you took lower salary for years building up to that commission with the promise that it would pay off once you sell more.
see responses above.
 
Good lord you are an idiot. The CURRENT legislature is not honoring prior commitments.

Yes, the current legislature is screwing the teachers and not honoring prior commitments.

They aren’t fixing anything. The current legislature has both held wages down and allowed insurance premiums to increase.
frankly, no legislature is required to honor any prior promise unless it's in code, and, code can be changed. while i actually agree with your sentiment, i also believe this shit needs fixed and fvck a bunch of back door bullshit good ole boy politics making promises to anybody.
 
WV should simply pass another tax cut. Then we can just sit back and watch the revenue from economic growth fill the coffers.
 
WV should simply pass another tax cut. Then we can just sit back and watch the revenue from economic growth fill the coffers.
or, they could just hire all those $18,000/year teachers you were talking about.
 
No agreement from the supply side trickle down economic growth knuckle draggers?
myeh, i'm more interested in finding a pile of those $18K teachers you were referring to.

that'd have been a great post of yours for you to reply to and call yourself a moron . . . again.
 
And Rox...I hesitate to continue, because every time I’ve been around you you seem like a really good guy. Part of me is thinking that this is just a troll attempt to get a rise out of people. But since you originated the thread and took a direct shot at teachers...and I’m a teacher...and my wife is a teacher...and my daughter is a teacher...then of course I’m going to take it personally.

So let’s examine your points. The first thing you present is that taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook for teacher’s healthcare. You could extend that thought to every job in existence. I say let’s do away with pharmacist. What good are they? The doctor is the one that prescribes the medicine. Why not allow them to hire a pharmacy tech to administer the medicine right at the doctor’s office where it’s prescribed? I mean...anyone can count pills right? That way I wouldn’t have to pay an inflated price for medicine in order to assure the income of a pharmacist.

Why are we paying for the commission and income of insurance salesmen? My insurance premiums is greatly inflated in order to pay the first year commission and renewal stream of the agent. I pay for life insurance. My premium cost is inflated because 70% to 90% of my first year premium goes to pay the administrative loads and commission of the agent. Why do I have to pay such exorbitant cost on my auto insurance? So the agent can enjoy a steady renewal stream year after year that he does very little to earn after the initial application and underwriting? And God forbid that I’m ever in the market for private health insurance. Because every time I paid a premium I’d grimace because a part of my hard earned money is going to support the agent I haven’t seen since he sold the policy, who is now either at the YMCA in the middle of the day or at a tanning salon. Everybody who works passes on the cost of their income to the consumer whether it’s called taxes or just the price of buying the product. Either way the money’s green.

And your next point...that teachers are walking out of school on their kids. Who? What counties? The counties this Friday that did a walk in where they came to school a half hour early to peacefully protest and then returned to the classroom to teach a full day without a single instructional minute being lost? Or is it the school systems that shut down for the day that did it in a manner that it could be made up through the built in OS days without a single loss of an instructional minute? Look...I personally sat in meetings with teachers who talked about how to make their point without jeopardizing either the instructional time or safety of the students. You can do your best to paint this in a way that gives the appearance of hypocrisy. But any reasonable person armed with the facts and not tainted with a previously held disrespect for teachers understands that every effort is being made to assure students aren’t being hurt. Trust me...this isn’t a selfish act and money grab by teachers without regard to the expense of the taxpayer. This is simply teachers worried about how they are going to pay their bills and support their families. They are entitled to that concern.

And your final point...that teachers claim that they do it for the kids and this somehow flies in the face of their altruistic claims. Really? You want to go there? Friedrich Nietzsche and Thomas Hobbes philosophy aside, who is more altruistic? The teacher who deals with students on a daily basis who battle poverty, parents devoured by drugs, students ripped from their families and placed in foster care, fathers that have murdered their mothers, girls that have been sexually abused, special needs children, autustc children, and children with Obsessive Defiant Disorder. That’s just in my class alone. Should I really accept that claim from someone who has stated that they dislike children and gets pissed off because they have to endure the misery of having to eat in a restaurant with some kid making noise in the next booth? I mean...yeah...the philosophers I mentioned above have built a case for the non existence of any true unselfish acts in life, but where I come from people are judged on their acts and not their intentions. And I see teachers in there every day dealing with a multitude of issues, taking money out of their own pockets to buy a coat or give a toy at Christmas. So excuse me if I give more credence to the actual deeds of the teacher without diminishing their intentions with some dead guys philosophy.
Teachers have our kids 12 yrs. The goverment should pay for their insurance or double their pay. They are that important. More important than any ball player.
 
Also all that money that is spent on the classroom's before the year starts is paid for by the teachers. Lowest paid teacher in lawrence co makes around 30,000. No 18000 dollar teachers here.
 
I don’t know if this meets your standards, but I make over three times more in the “private sector” then I do teaching school. So you tell me if I could make it. I didn’t “crawl back” to teaching. I chose to come back. I left it because I had to and returned because I could. The perception that public teachers couldn’t make it in the real world is just bullsh**.

I have a unique perspective. I’ve done both. And there’s no doubt in my mind that many more teachers would make it in the private sector than those in the private sector could make it in teaching.
GK in our town internet newspaper they listed the salaries of school employees. Alot are making 50 grand a year. Some in the sixties. Husband and wives making well over a 100 grand a year. They live very well.
 
Clearly, you aren’t able to recall much. In one debate, he said that if he wins, he’s going to instruct his attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to go after Hillary for her emails.

In another, he said that if he’s in charge, Hillary will be in jail.

At a rally, he said the first thing he will do on his first day is throw her in jail.

At another rally, he said Clinton “has to go to jail.”

I’m sure this shit is all on YouTube. Keep burying your head in the sand. At least three of his four main promises have been fantasy.
He said it and got elected. Lets be honest alot of america hates hillary so bad they elected someone with zero experience running a goverment
 
Good lord you are an idiot. The CURRENT legislature is not honoring prior commitments.

Yes, the current legislature is screwing the teachers and not honoring prior commitments.

They aren’t fixing anything. The current legislature has both held wages down and allowed insurance premiums to increase.

You’re approaching dtard/extragreed level in this discussion. Go back and educate yourself on what’s going on and then we can continue.
 
myeh, i'm more interested in finding a pile of those $18K teachers you were referring to.

that'd have been a great post of yours for you to reply to and call yourself a moron . . . again.

So little interest in a tax cut? What's the problem? More money in your pocket and economic growth that will pay for the tax cut. It's been passed by the federal government so it will work for states too. Let's do it.

Maybe we could cut some regulations while we're at it. After all, just the mention of it helps metal fabrication shops.
 
So little interest in a tax cut? What's the problem? More money in your pocket and economic growth that will pay for the tax cut. It's been passed by the federal government so it will work for states too. Let's do it.

Maybe we could cut some regulations while we're at it. After all, just the mention of it helps metal fabrication shops.
where are all those $18K teaching positions? can't seem to find any and i've searched to the end of the interweb and back.
 
where are all those $18K teaching positions? can't seem to find any and i've searched to the end of the interweb and back.

I think you can find them in the same place that metal fabrication shop is located. The metal fabrication shop that had a great year due to the imagined cut in regulations. By the way, did you ever tell the owner of that business the facts about those regulations? If so I was wondering if his business then went into an imagined slump due to the regulations not being passed.
 
I have relatives in the teaching profession, moron.

And that somehow makes you an expert? I have several relatives and close friends that’s are teachers, principals, and BOE members. Pretty much everybody in this state does. That still doesn’t mean you have a command on this issue, because clearly you don’t.
 
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I think you can find them in the same place that metal fabrication shop is located. The metal fabrication shop that had a great year due to the imagined cut in regulations. By the way, did you ever tell the owner of that business the facts about those regulations? If so I was wondering if his business then went into an imagined slump due to the regulations not being passed.
damn, that really done a number on you, didn't it? poor guy.
 
I cherish it. It proved you're ever bit the moron I've always said you are.
you cherish something you think you proved on a message board? yeah, that's a bit abnormal.

whoever it was that described your thought process couldn't have hit it any closer . . . no matter how many times you say something isn't going to make it true. the only one you don't need to keep saying is when you replied to yourself calling yourself a moron. nope, that one is definitively true no matter whether you post it once or a thousand times.
 
you cherish something you think you proved on a message board

Yes, I cherish the fact you were proven to be a moron for all to see. I repeat it because I enjoy it. As I've said many times I post here for amusement. The amusement is seeing knuckle draggers like you wallow in false data after proven to be wrong.
 
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