Say Doc is let go. Who should we go after??
- Thread starter ThunderCat98
- Start date
Ok.
Chad is coaching in HS and seems to be enjoying himself.
MU would be asking a guy to essentially bail out the program...after having already tirelessly worked for the Vision Campaign among other Marshall related things.
Because of that, Chad is more of an ambassador for MU than a head coach. He's going to do much more than win a football game for MU and it is something that reaches beyond the program.
Leftwich?
Not likely. He's in the NFL and has been doing well as the OC for Tampa Bay. I think he is just headed in that direction, at least a different direction for his career than at Marshall.
Big money...yeah, it would. But this is for a fanbase who complains about current ticket pricing as it is. You do realize costs would need to go up for getting a head coach for a million dollars...or MU would need to cut costs for their current programs.
Hence why I'd take an FCS HC over a P5 coordinator...the very good ones are liekly going to take a paycut for a larger amount of responsibility vs. a HC whoa lready knows the responsibility, taking a larger salary, and has a solid program to work from.
Thank you for explaining why a P5 coordinator is out of the question IN THIS ERA. Good job. Much better than just calling people “dumb” and citing things that happened decades ago.
But it’s not, Sammy. P5 coordinators (and just assistants) take G5 head coaching spots every year.
Eli Drinkwitz, the OC at a solid NC State program, was hoping the Marshall job came open two years ago. He ended up taking the App State job this year and has led them to a one loss and top 25 ranking.
We could talk all day about the number of P5 coordinators who take P5 head coaching jobs, including some from the very top programs.
Hey Rifle just to more prove your point. Here are just a few G5 programs that I went through and found coaches that were P5 coordinators in their last job that are now G5 head coaches. This took about 5 minutes of research.
Luke Fickell DC Ohio State now HC at Cincinnati
Mike Norvell OC at Arizona State now HC at Memphis
Sonny Dykes Arizona OC then head coach of Cal. Now HC at SMU
Philip Montgomery OC at Baylor now HC at Tulsa
Josh Heupel OC at Missouri now HC at UCF
Lane Kiffin OC at Bama now HC at FAU
Butch Davis 2 P5 HC jobs now HC at FIU
Seth Littrell was an OC at 3 P5 schools now at North Texas
Mike Bloomgren OC at Stanford now HC at Rice
Dana Dimel OC at Kansas State now HC UTEP
Tyson Helton OC at Tennessee and now HC at WKU
Walt Bell OC at Maryland and FSU now HC at UMass
Scott Loeffler OC at Boston College now HC at Bowling Green
Sean Lewis OC at Syracuse now HC at Kent State
Chuck Martin Notre Dame OC now HC at Miami OH
Who knows, Sam may have me blocked too at this point, but it's worth a shot.
@The Real SamC
Riflearm2 said:
But it’s not, Sammy. P5 coordinators (and just assistants) take G5 head coaching spots every year.
Eli Drinkwitz, the OC at a solid NC State program, was hoping the Marshall job came open two years ago. He ended up taking the App State job this year and has led them to a one loss and top 25 ranking.
We could talk all day about the number of P5 coordinators who take P5 head coaching jobs, including some from the very top programs.
@The Real SamC
Riflearm2 said:
But it’s not, Sammy. P5 coordinators (and just assistants) take G5 head coaching spots every year.
Eli Drinkwitz, the OC at a solid NC State program, was hoping the Marshall job came open two years ago. He ended up taking the App State job this year and has led them to a one loss and top 25 ranking.
We could talk all day about the number of P5 coordinators who take P5 head coaching jobs, including some from the very top programs.
It just feels like Doc has ran his course here. I think 7-9 wins and missing out on a C-USA title game appearance will be a yearly occurrence. Doc’s done good things here, there’s no denying that. But sometimes, it’s just time to move on. Playing in the Go Mart Bowl every year becomes less appealing, especially when we blow our chances to play for a championship every year.
Maybe Mike D'Antoni has another brother who coaches football.
I was saying for MU...who seems to boast the resources for being a competitive G5 program, but seems to struggle with ticket prices and fans who complain about said prices...as this was in response to a dreaming scenario for a million dollars and a top tier coordinator now HC.
I just feel it can be more appealing for someone who has been an FCS head coach prior, to take a pay raise, and an occupational upgrade in everything.
If MU is what is being said, it is a very good gig.
A risk for a coordinator is they simply being a very good coordinator but not a HC.
I think Snyder wasn't particularly HC material. Yes, he got a raw deal coming in, however, he had a ton of support and had some talent on the team, back when CUSA East was finding its identity. Coordinator? Sure...as he hasn't tried to get the job (or land one) of a HC since.
Its subjective as far as who could do it best, but lets just ask this:
Given the financial craptastic state for conference TV money and overall finances MU specifically is in, I would presume you'd want the least possible margin for error in hiring a head coach...who is probably going to have some early expectations from an eager fanbase who can see MU just needs to get over some roadblocks that are doable.
Which would give you the best return on the risk taken?
P5 coordinator from an upper tier P5 school.
or
FCS head coach from a very competitive but lower tier program?
Most coordinators from a upper tier P5 already make much more money than the $800k we pay Doc. Can we afford to pay over $1 million per year?
Herdmeister read the post above there are a ton of coordinators from P5 schools that are head coaches at G5 schools. If you want to be a head coach and you don’t have a P5 job lined up you will take a G5 job. Money would not be a reason someone would turn our job down unless we tried to get a head coach at another G5 program who makes more money than us. Taking a G5 job and being successful insures a P5 coordinator millions when a P5 head coaching job comes along.
Also if we can’t pay a head football coach 1 million dollars a year then we should go back to FCS.
Also if we can’t pay a head football coach 1 million dollars a year then we should go back to FCS.
And those coordinators are usually on a one or two year deal. A head coach will get a minimum four year deal. There’s far more guaranteed money in that even if at a lower annual salary.
At Marshall you are probably going to get 5 years. That is 4 million in your first contract at 800k per year. I believe at one point of Doc's tenure he was at a 7 year deal counting his extensions. 2014 until now. That is a pretty good deal.
That will have to include MU making changes to afford it. However that's gotta be done...will the fans be ok with it if it is for hiring someone of quality?
By MU “making changes” what you mean is this hangdog sad sack fan base digging down and paying up. There is no automatic reason a school, not named for a state or city, in a small and depopulating state and city, whose historical origin is turning out teachers, with the 4th smallest public school enrollment in I-A, and thus probably a similar sized alumni group, with many alumni spread all over due to the rotten local economy, with a hostile (at times) state government and a petty jealous so-called big brother that thinks that every other college in the state should close, should be in the Top 135 sports programs.
The reason MU is in CUSA rather than the lowly MAC? The fans.
The reason MU is in I-A and not I-AA? The fans.
The reason MU is in Div I and not the MEC? The fans.
There is no particular reason we are not James Madison, or UT Chattanooga, or Morehead State. There is no particular reason we are not BUGS, or Akron. There is no particular reason, and yes, I mean this, that we are not Concord or Fairmont or Shepard.
Over generation after generation, locals (many of whom never attended any college) and alumni have made this athletic program. With their love, with their hearts, and WITH THEIR CASH.
Today, all I see is a bunch of people who, after a win, try to find something to complain about “atmosphere” ; a bunch of people who want “them” to pay up so they can have what they want; who want to just open the gates and let folks in for near free so the place looks good on TV (ignoring the fact that, one, nobody is watching, and, two, the live gate would not change if you let people in for actual free) ; and, more than anything, people who feel that wins are supposed to be automatic, but that watching or even caring about the games is beneath them because the other teams are somehow “unworthy”.
It is sad, and it is going to kill this program.
The reason MU is in CUSA rather than the lowly MAC? The fans wanted more.
The reason MU is in I-A and not I-AA? The fans wanted more.
The reason MU is in Div I and not the MEC? The fans wanted more.
And we've continually fought against those who were happy with the status quo.
The reason MU is in I-A and not I-AA? The fans wanted more.
The reason MU is in Div I and not the MEC? The fans wanted more.
And we've continually fought against those who were happy with the status quo.
Green is a sophomore. If what we've seen this year is the typical sophomore slump (which I believe it is) then I am all in the next two years - should be extremely exciting to watch.
Who was the last QB that Marshall had who played both seasons after his Sophomore slump season?
Cato started all four years... Although you can make a case that his sophomore year was no slump. It was statistically his best season.
Who is the “we” you speak of? I remember the fan base of that era. They gave of their time, of their effort, and expended capital of all types, real, physical, and political. They wanted MU to be special.
Today all I see is a bunch of keyboard warriors that want “something” done, yet who cannot explain what that is; and who spend most of their time bitching and moaning about game day “atmosphere”, what the band plays, that the school has the audacity to actually charge them to get into the games, that the game is on a TV channel, or on the internet, that requires effort to receive, that the rest rooms are dirty; and above all, that this oh so common a league is beneath their caring about.
The ones who were not satisfied with the status quo.
Is that a different fan base than what we have now? No, it isn't. That era I mentioned ended a short 15 years ago. Do you think they've all died or moved off. Of course not.
A bunch of those "keyboard warriors" have told you what they want, a new coach. You just don't like the plan, and your only plan is leave it alone.
Yes, it is. In the past, as MU rose from the ashes, this fan base, while wanting more, cheered hard and proud for a team that was playing The Citadel and Western Carolina in the SoCon, nobody spewed about it being “just I-AA” ; then for the lowest I-A conference (by far) in its era, the lowly MAC, nobody spewed about the MAC and its disfunction. Today, this CUSA is, oh so beneath so many. It’s “just CUSA”, easy to win and automatic. In the past, people paid good money to see games with Akron or Kent State; and earlier with VMI and Eastern Kentucky. Now people want in free, or nearly so.
Yes, this fan base has changed, and for the worse.
That is not a plan, that is a slogan. A plan would be to explain why you want a new coach, which you cannot do unless those of us who understand football accept your false premise that CUSA is this easy automatic thing; then explains who you want who we could get, and then explain how YOU are going to fund your part of that.
to fund your part of that.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Sam. As the lady in the funny commercial says: “That’s not how it works.....that’s not how any of this works!”
Let’s just take this one failed point at a time:
Most ridiculous 1st
explain(s!) who you want (&) who we could get....
Name ONE time in the history of college football where the administration/athletics department handed authority for the hiring of a paid coaching position to the fan base?
We’ll just let you fail here initially....
Sorry, Sam. As the lady in the funny commercial says: “That’s not how it works.....that’s not how any of this works!”
Let’s just take this one failed point at a time:
Most ridiculous 1st
explain(s!) who you want (&) who we could get....
Name ONE time in the history of college football where the administration/athletics department handed authority for the hiring of a paid coaching position to the fan base?
We’ll just let you fail here initially....
We have almost entirely the same fan base now as we did then. It was exciting back then because we were making progress and getting better.
Malarkey ^^^. Many posters on here have mentioned lowering ticket prices to get larger crowds, mostly just for important games to give the team a morale boost.
It certainly is a plan, it's just not a detailed plan.
Right there ^^^is your problem. I'd like to buy you for what you're worth and sell you for what you think you're worth, we could afford Saban. Furthermore it doesn't require an engineer to recognize a train wreck. And beyond that, we don't need additional funding for a new coach. I suspect there's several coaches out there who would accept what Doc is making now, and smile about it. If that's not the case, then you're saying that we simply hired the cheapest available coach when we hired Doc. As I posted before, we are losing more conference games in the last 5 years against weaker competition than we did earlier against tougher competition. That ought to be an indicator to any fan that things are deteriorating. And that's not acceptable except for blind loyalists.
Exactly. There are plenty of assistant coaches out there who are chomping at the bit to get the opportunity to be a head coach, and that's often how it happens, they go from a larger program to become head coach at a smaller school.
Forget it man, you'll never get any sense into Sam's head. He's so far into this delusion that there's no turning back now.
Isn't it a little bit of insanity..... doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result, but ending up with the same thing as before.
[/QUOTE]Sorry, Sam. As the lady in the funny commercial says: “That’s not how it works.....that’s not how any of this works!”
Let’s just take this one failed point at a time:
Most ridiculous 1st
explain(s!) who you want (&) who we could get....
Name ONE time in the history of college football where the administration/athletics department handed authority for the hiring of a paid coaching position to the fan base?
We’ll just let you fail here initially....[/QUOTE]
Perhaps this attack on your position got past you...
Still waiting on a response to the above before moving on to the your next asinine thought....
According to the "coaches on the hot seat" site, Doc's job is safe. In fact he only comes in at #91.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CoachesHotSeatRanking.htm
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CoachesHotSeatRanking.htm
It is pretty certain that this fan base should not have such authority. Of course, that has nothing whatsoever to do with my original comment, so I assume you cannot refute that, as usual, and so spewed out what you spewed out.
Win.
Of course, the broader journalism world, outside this sad, entitled, fan base, understands that Doc will be, and deserves to be, here until he retires. I say five more years.
And why would he be? When your best friend is your boss and he sets no expectations for you to perform, you've got it made.
“then explains who you want who we could get”
How else to explain this? It sounds like the responsibility for finding & interviewing the pool of candidates......is up to the fan base.
Then, most ludicrous of all, that each & every one of US is to financially obligate ourselves to funding the new coaching staff!!
That’s not how it works, & you know it.
Winning one championship in a decade in a conference where you have far superior advantages to winning (we've gone over this numerous times) is not deserving of what you claim.
That is exactly how it works. Fans (or student fees if you are a directional Florida, et al) pay for programs.
All you have is a few slogans, all of which can be summed up as entitled delusion. Where did “9-3 is not acceptable” get our buddies up north? Nebraska? Michigan? Etc.
Go Herd.
Again, I say "UNDERPERFORMING," as in not beating 2 teams that we had no business losing to. And 9-3 is out of our reach this year.
Under Doc, we've managed 9-3 or better 3 out of 10 seasons and those 3 were consecutive. Since then we've gone 27-22. Yep, good enough.
go dig out an old program...you won't find Greed donating much at all.
