That doesn't even make sense. Either he broke the rules or he did not. Sounds like some excuse making crap to me.
Smock on changes coming to football program
- Thread starter Chris McLaughlin
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That doesn't even make sense. Either he broke the rules or he did not. Sounds like some excuse making crap to me.
I can't explain it any clearer. He was never going to play the game due to injury. He then made a mistake the night before the game, which landed him a suspension. Had he not been injured then he likely would've never made the mistake that landed him the suspension.
Josh, with due respect, 2+2=5 is a mistake. What Litton is rumored to have done is not a mistake. It was an deliberate act, albeit stupid.
Yeah, kinda the whole premise in how someone is more likely to stay out of trouble when he/she has a job.
I won't disagree that it was stupid, but whether it was deliberate or not it was a mistake. People make them all the time. It's time to move on from that though and hope that he's learned from it. If not, Doc will act accordingly I'm sure.
1) He is not governor yet, right? You do realize he has a lot of money and power and has different business entities.
2)Do you understand how politics and money work?
3)Going back to #2 he could just say Mr Gilbert you know this is a two way street and if you want to see funding go your way you are going to listen to me and listen up good.
The article basically says nothing that would lend itself to believing the much needed changes will actually be made. Speculative at best.
So Holliday goes the JUCO route in an effort to stop the dam from leaking or collapsing altogether. Will not work , been tried at Marshall before without success. All a coach is telling by going this route is that he has failed to adequately recruit and now is in a jam having to try this to salvage the program. Holliday has failed miserably with regards to the overall character and or lack of adequate academic potential with regards to many he has brought into the program i.e. the suspensions , dismissals and academically challenged. There is a reason other schools do not recruit and sign those types of individuals
The governor elect - not buying what is being reported nor sure how someone who is involved in multiple legal issues would give any indication of being ready to become involved in the removal of the head coach and AD. Would be better off spending his time getting his own house in order so as governor he does not further embarrass the state. Do that, then come to the aid of your alma mater.
Which leads to this - with all that was printed , nothing in the way of a seriously solid solution i.e. the actual firing of the head football coach as well as the AD. An illusion to this ( per the statement regarding the incoming gov) and true the pres if being advised by the incoming governor may be keeping any potential action or decision very close to the vest until he is in a position to be ready to go after a top flight AD candidate who would possibly have a head football coach in tow.
Basically , this article is nothing more than one that would raise the hopes of many who do not see or comprehend the urgency in making a decision regarding not only the immediate solidification of the program but the disaster the program is headed towards down the road should the normal Marshall hesitation to do what should be accomplished is followed.
So Holliday goes the JUCO route in an effort to stop the dam from leaking or collapsing altogether. Will not work , been tried at Marshall before without success. All a coach is telling by going this route is that he has failed to adequately recruit and now is in a jam having to try this to salvage the program. Holliday has failed miserably with regards to the overall character and or lack of adequate academic potential with regards to many he has brought into the program i.e. the suspensions , dismissals and academically challenged. There is a reason other schools do not recruit and sign those types of individuals
The governor elect - not buying what is being reported nor sure how someone who is involved in multiple legal issues would give any indication of being ready to become involved in the removal of the head coach and AD. Would be better off spending his time getting his own house in order so as governor he does not further embarrass the state. Do that, then come to the aid of your alma mater.
Which leads to this - with all that was printed , nothing in the way of a seriously solid solution i.e. the actual firing of the head football coach as well as the AD. An illusion to this ( per the statement regarding the incoming gov) and true the pres if being advised by the incoming governor may be keeping any potential action or decision very close to the vest until he is in a position to be ready to go after a top flight AD candidate who would possibly have a head football coach in tow.
Basically , this article is nothing more than one that would raise the hopes of many who do not see or comprehend the urgency in making a decision regarding not only the immediate solidification of the program but the disaster the program is headed towards down the road should the normal Marshall hesitation to do what should be accomplished is followed.
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In regards to your comment about JUCO recruiting, every school in America recruits from the JUCO ranks. Alabama signs multiple kids each year from the JUCO ranks and they're the class of college football. Besides, Neville Hewitt and Taj Letman were both recruited from JUCO's and had terrific careers here.
And in regards to your comment about changes not being made,
Here's a direct quote from Doc,
"I’m not going to get into what those changes will be at this point, but there’ll be some changes offensively, both staff and personnel.”
If that doesn't signify changes then I don't know what does.
I do not see any. JJ is a person and the Big Green Club is a legal non-profit organization. He is free to donate to it in whatever way he wishes. Athletic employees can be fired without cause subject only to whatever the buyout clause is.
However, if JJ wanted Doc or Mike or whoever fired, they would already be fired, and without him giving any money. That is the nature of how things work. Nobody, not even racist Gee, is in a position to not do exactly as they are told by the governor (or governor elect).
We will have to disagree. Rules are rules, period. I especially expect more from a player in a leadership position, he should set the example 24/7/365.
I'd be willing to bet he never plays another down in a Herd jersey. He will screw up again, it's only a matter of time.
I have seen that same movie before when Manchin stuck his nose in everything WVU from Heather's bogus eMBA degree, the promotion of Wise flunkie Mike Garrison to WVU prez, Gomer's hiring, and sticking a gun to Pasthisprime's head to force the WVU/Marshall series. The last thing you guys want is JJ sticking his nose in everything Marshall. As someone said earlier, he has more important things to pay attention to as the state is about broke.
The only hope for change may be at the completion of the bowl games(maybe someone has a position coach or two in mind as it appears the head man is safe) , if nothing happens within a few days of that , we are doomed for a repeat of this year.
Just do not see the significant changes that are needed taking place as it appears everyone associated with the department / program is on cruise control leading to the insanity of expecting this staff to suddenly obtain the knowledge and ability to determine what to do and how to accomplish it.
Just do not see the significant changes that are needed taking place as it appears everyone associated with the department / program is on cruise control leading to the insanity of expecting this staff to suddenly obtain the knowledge and ability to determine what to do and how to accomplish it.
As a Marshall fan, I could care less if we ever play wvu again. Sad thing is it has nothing to do with their program and everything to do with the classless fan base. So you really think wvu would have beaten us in 2013 or 14? If they would have beaten us it would have been nail bitters. That said, jj doesn't need to force us to play, we already have equivalent programs on the schedule that are home and home, no need for a lopsided wvu series where we give into demands.
However - it still does not make sense for the two largest schools in the state not to play each other regardless of the sport. So we had Louisville and Pitt this year , think of what the schedule could have been with a game against WVU as well. (realizing it would have looked like the Louisville or WKU game in all probability)
I realize they do not see us as being anything but a little brother - same as UK and Louisville, South Carolina and Clemson ( even if that is a joke) but to say that year in and year out we have equivalent programs on the schedule , no , the schedule would only be enhanced with the addition of WVU.
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You make too much sense...which will now bring the denizens of morganhole out to discuss finances.
Yep. The thing to remember is that JJ is more a front man for the Goodwin-Rockefailure-Manchin Machine to a serious policy maker. He will have plenty of time on his hands and I really fear that sticking his nose in MU (and WVU) athletics and academics affairs will be one of the things his handlers will let him do to keep him occupied. I do not think this will be good for anyone involved.
And, please everybody lets not have that "should MU and WVU play" discussion AGAIN. There is nothing more to be said about it that has not been said 600 times already.
You know we can barely afford laces in our players' cleats, according to some on here
I get that and if the playing field were even, such as doing home and home, by all means we should play, BUT if they insist on a 3 or 4 for 1, we should never accept that. Who in their right mind accepts that these days? Our stadium is just as big or bigger than some of their former rivals of the BE, so in essence they have no reason to make that sort of demand. If the governor wants to make the rivalry happen, then he needs to do it right, and not the way ole M did. You do not see any other program be politically forced to play an in state rival give up that sorta sovereignty and make it accept some crap deal like a 3 for 1. Look at ECU, they got it mandated that NC State, UNC had to play them annually on a home and home basis, the way it should be. Bottom line is WVU is not a bigger or better program than UL, NC State etc and do not have the clout to insist on a one and done or lopsided home and home, they aren't Alabama or Ohio State or Texas. As long as they insist on that, I say we never play the pricks.
I always thought it was funny how wvu fans acted like they got the short end of the stick by being forced into the series. They got a 7 game series where 5 of them were at home and I believe the payout to the visiting team was minimal. We got 2 games in 7 years and they were the ones complaining haha.
I hope we never play again, unless it's desirable for both institutions...which will never be the case.
You feel they deserve a 2 for 1 when we are getting 1 for 1 with Purdue, NC State, Pitt, UL ?? That's my whole problem with that thought process.
Here's the thing - this isn't a dynamic limited to Marshall/WVU. We sign home and home with NC State and its no problem, but if ECU wants to play them, their state government has to get involved. Meanwhile, ECU and WVU used to play on a near-annual basis, while we needed government intervention to spur the Coal Bowl.
A big part of negotiation is not only understanding the other guy, but understanding yourself. When WVU says they have nothing to gain by playing Marshall, that's not necessarily completely true, but its true enough. The bump they get from playing us versus Bowling Green isn't enough incentive for the risk they take in playing us. I think Marshall's AD understands this, so when it says "1-for-1 or bust," they're essentially forfeiting the whole endeavor right out the gate.
What was lost in all the BS surrounding the Coal Bowl was that WVU got a 5-for-2 with an FBS team where the top visitor's payout maxed out at $250,000 in the final game. WVU paid more for one visit from BGSU ($900k) than for all five games against Marshall, with the two visits to MU as the balance. In the economics of modern college football, it was a hell of a deal for both sides.
However, when it came time to renew, WVU was already 80% out the door, and Marshall was borderline-antagonistic, confident Governor Manchin would force a renewal. Then Robert Byrd died and the rest is history.
It doesn't have to be though, but Marshall is going to have to make the first move, and unfortunately, due to our negotiating position, its going to have to involve being magnanimous, and maybe even eating a little crow. Or we could just never speak WVU's name again - either or, I'd be fine with it.
A big part of negotiation is not only understanding the other guy, but understanding yourself. When WVU says they have nothing to gain by playing Marshall, that's not necessarily completely true, but its true enough. The bump they get from playing us versus Bowling Green isn't enough incentive for the risk they take in playing us. I think Marshall's AD understands this, so when it says "1-for-1 or bust," they're essentially forfeiting the whole endeavor right out the gate.
What was lost in all the BS surrounding the Coal Bowl was that WVU got a 5-for-2 with an FBS team where the top visitor's payout maxed out at $250,000 in the final game. WVU paid more for one visit from BGSU ($900k) than for all five games against Marshall, with the two visits to MU as the balance. In the economics of modern college football, it was a hell of a deal for both sides.
However, when it came time to renew, WVU was already 80% out the door, and Marshall was borderline-antagonistic, confident Governor Manchin would force a renewal. Then Robert Byrd died and the rest is history.
It doesn't have to be though, but Marshall is going to have to make the first move, and unfortunately, due to our negotiating position, its going to have to involve being magnanimous, and maybe even eating a little crow. Or we could just never speak WVU's name again - either or, I'd be fine with it.
I see what you are saying but I do not agree that we should suck anything up to satisfy them. It is a shame that we can't come to terms and yeah most states had to intervene to make those instate schools play, UVA and VT is a good example, even getting VT into the ACC is another. As long as politics in WV stay out of MU and WVU matters, we will never play, its really that simple. That is fine with me, I just do not believe that WVU deserves a lopsided series, why would we agree to it when we can get similar programs to do a home and home and also give us sell outs at home? I mean think about it, it goes beyond what you get paid when you play away or what you pay them when they visit. More tickets sold, trumps that. I will bet that BG didn't draw nearly as many fans as MU did when visiting Morganhole, and they in turn forked out a good amount to get them to visit, so they lost money in every facet vs. playing us. It makes financial sense for us to play, but it doesn't make sense for MU to agree to play 75% of the games at WVU, that doesn't help our program. We aren't even talking about concession sales yet. We may make less money at home vs. Purdue due to paying them to visit, but in turn we gain it back when we visit them, so that part of thought is a wash. It goes right back to reasoning. So all you gain from playing WVU, if you beat them, is bragging rights and probably them never playing again not matter what. There isn't anything financially gained playing WVU over UL, and visits from Pitt, NC State coming, and dare I say Navy will draw well, even Boise St.. Does the state itself lose a little money, we all know it does, but as long as the political structure in the state is ok with that, then so be it.
beefcake a sad but true commentary. We have a current MU governor and another Governor elect and neither will have the political fortitude to simply tell the two schools play each other every year in all sports. Check out UK and UL.
Is Yurachek coming back? I heard he was pissed that no one would hold Litton accountable and Litton wont throw to him even when he is open. You cant make this stuff up? Anyone heard this?
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I don't think a democratic Gov has the capital to do something like that right now
A lot of people agree this game needs played but lots of hard feelings with the fan base on both sides now. I do think a deal is there to be had but both sides need to give a little and no one seems willing to give.
Marshall and WVU will play again the day people realize sports isn't actually real life.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a massive shipment of tropical fruit ice cube trays I have to UPS to Hell before 5p.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a massive shipment of tropical fruit ice cube trays I have to UPS to Hell before 5p.
