YESSSSS!!!! How reliable is your source that he will retire?
What will Spears do?
- Thread starter bbneutralfan
- Start date
I told you all, didn't I??
Doc and DD are basically the same person, with some aspects of their personality and history being different, but they're the same coach in the end.
I think doc really cared about MU and while being a dreadful public personality, seemed to show he was at least trying. Plus he did make adjustments and hired/fired coaches to make the team better in some ways. If the whole, "We play for Championships" is to be believed, then he did play for 3 of them. Winning one. I didn't agree with his exit, and feel it was heavily politically driven behind the scenes.
I think Dan also does care about MU, but he's sort of become a bit of a big head when it came to just being a coach. Sure, he can complain about "lowering" conference quality from CUSA to SBC, but it really means more if you were actually consistent with winning the titles. I also feel, politically, behind the scenes, is why he still has a job, and frankly, acts the way he does at times.
Both had their fair share of big wins. Doc beat some P5 schools and had some very fun teams to watch...got MU noticed by ESPN and the public when the current media deal put CUSA in Siberia in regards to national exposure.
Dan of course, gave us a good run in CUSA's tournament, upset Witchita State, giving MU much needed exposure, again, at a time when MU never got any.
But also, both have had their share of embarrassing losses...while some of you are too fragile for details and suffer from some accelerated form of PTSD from mentioning some, I will just say, both are quite bad, but really only one stands out to me...UVA dominated us so badly, they put their waterboy in.
In the end, fans claimed to have held MU football to high standards and despite his best efforts, Doc was fired.
Dan has essentially been the same as Doc in terms of what matters most...coaching performance...and is still being given more slack than Doc ever got.
As I have said, hold MU to the same standard in all sports. Some may not be as successful, but it's never easy to be competitive being MU either...
Well...wait...soccer sort of demolished that last line.
Move on from Dan.
He was not fired. His contract wasn't renewed............................
Basically the same except DD took us further than anyone ever with a signature win and Doc didn't. Other than that, you are correct.
It's odd, this year really could have tipped the balance either way on DD. In a way, this season compares to his career, in that it could have been really good relative to our history with a regular season title, a NIT or NCAA visit or win, or even making a conference title game. As it stands, in the last two weeks our losses made it turned out very ho hum.
Same for his resume, do something this year like I mentioned above, and he has to go down with our all time great coaches with two NCAA visits or one and one NIT, but we didn't get there and as it stands a review of his resume is very ho hum outside of 2018.
I'm not sure what Spears will do, but he won't be making this decision alone, no way. So we will see what they do but for all the things they have to consider, angry nonseason ticket holding, non Big Green donating, non tip off club joining message board fans will be the least of their considerations.
Yeah, sorry, CFP was limited to 4 teams and even if undefeated, it is highly unlikely MU got in.
Even an Access Bowl, would have been great, but MU fell just short and got jumped by Boise (who, that year, I feel MU would have crushed had they played one another). It sucks, but it happens...only really 1 NCAA D1 football team goes undefeated every year.
The NCAA tournament is different and exposure is measured by opinion in this case.
Both did about the best they could do, but one is burned at the stake while the other is allowed to fail.
1) if Doc didn't choke it's my opinion we get in over Boise with two of our best wins at the end of year (la tech and wku). The committee proved they would move teams without requiring a team to lose to drop. We'll never know since we choked wku.
2) Doc could have at least matched our all time best in FB even if we didn't get in the access. Undefeated in 2014 and no big bowl game would have still compared will to 1999. That said, Doc choked it.
No signature wins in my opinion, some good ones, several chokes and he never took us farther than other past Herd FB coaches. 2018 alone makes DD better than Doc, take away that year, sure they are comparable.
Yeah, no wins over a Big 10 school (regardless of record...because DD fans would choose to ignore it and just look at the brand).
No wins over any BCS co champions.
No, actual competitive games against the P5's either.
Right?
This is going to end in a stalemate. What matters are championships and both gave the exact same amount of them.
One was working uphill constantly because the fan base believes a mid major can sustain themselves forever (spoiler: they can't)...but hidden behind the guise of "Our program has high standards."
While the other goes out and does something undone before, but the fan base hides behind the guise of, "Well, it's just been so long, and we never had the same standards."
BS. Look at the soccer team. Anything less
than a decent NCAA tournament run, if not another national championship, is considered a failure...and it took them, what, 3 years to do it and get that bar set?
Oh, and unlike Dan, Grassie actually has been, you know, successful at maintaining such standards.
Hell, even Doc, could have just melted down after 2016...he just rebuilt the team and got us a bow victory over a better conference team, then improved on it the following year.
Yeah, Dan shouldn't get so much time. It's not like soccer was some outstanding program that won all the time before, right?
Once more. Get off Dan's nuts. It should be over and done with.
Move on from Dan.
Almost 6 minutes without a bucket to end the season...speaks for itself, IMHO!
I'm fine if we move on I have plenty of things I can be critical of. Doesn't mean I can't point out your flawed comparison. 2018 final 32 w win over WSU who was seeded what #4? That > Doc. Get off Docs nuts he is gone
If you say so about my comparison. Something that happened 5 years ago and hasn't been sniffed at since and something, literally everyone minus a dwindling few, have done as well.
But hey, continue to use that as an argument, you'll be safe here, just don't mention it outside of here.
Not arguing anything. Giving you some facts. You can learn or not, up to you if you are capable.
You could make an argument that Doc accomplished much more than Dan and most of the fan base wanted him gone for most of his time here. Save for one championship and tournament win Dan hasn't done anything but choke and yet he's defended to no end and gets to make every excuse in the book for why he couldn't win.
If Dan's last name wasn't D'Antoni he would not be our head coach. He never would have been hired in the first place and he wouldn't have lasted this long.
Doc also wasn't scared to play the big boys either. He may not have beaten as many as we liked, but we played them. Even as Huff struggles we're still playing a really nice OoC schedule. Meanwhile the basketball program is opening up on the road against Queens. I wonder if Huff sees that and wonders why he can't have those schedules.
It goes back to what @The Real SamC says all the time. MBB is at best a token effort. We scheduled Notre Dame in football because we wanted a memorable game that could be an all-time program once in a lifetime occurrence and the pay out helped pay for travel the rest of the season. It paid the bills and rewarded the fans. Meanwhile Dan constantly complains about his lack of funding and no such games are beind scheduled. It's funny we used to take jabs at Doc because his schedule were soft compared to Snyder's and that he probably wouldn't have the records he did if had Snyder's schedules. Well why can't we do that with Dan. Give him the schedules that Herrion had. We're not playing Cincinnati or going on the road to #3 Syracuse, UK, or Louisville. We're not playing WVU every year now. Dan doesn't have a Memphis he has to contend with every season either.
@The Real SamC calls it a token effort. I call it a grift. We tarp half the arena and tout "sell outs" and we pad the schedule to show "improvement" all the while the Danites just love it as they condemn anyone that actually wants better. 2022-23 was smoke and mirrors.
Yes it was. As will next year, and the next and the next. As long as DD is here, and as long as his successor is from his staff and he is here, it will be.
The powers that be understand that if MU can put up 20-24 wins, it can "sell out" the tarped over half of an arena, to the local gentry. That will remain the same until that generation passes. Mid-20 wins are easy if you pad the schedule and then play in the vomit SBC.
So that is what it is, every year. Cupcake wins, finishing somewhere like 3rd to 5th in a conference that doesn't matter. Pay to play or not. They know that they can break even, or even make a little money, and no one of importance will demand better. So that is what they do.
This is a token effort.
……and, as I have stated before, this forum comprises maybe 0.5 - 1% of those that attend home bball games every season. If you took a poll of those 99 - 99.5% (the ones paying for tickets) imo they would overwhelmingly vote that they just enjoy watching Marshall play ball. The Cam atmosphere seemed much improved this season - folks with their families having a good time yelling themselves hoarse rooting for the home team & people watching.
As has been the gospel as long as college sports has needed money to operate, until those 99% grow sufficiently dissatisfied with the product being produced on the court and stop paying to purchase tickets, nothing will change. And really, why should it?
You have a new AD who is smart enough to push raising money from the high rollers so he can improve ALL the sports at MU. Also, with the recent renovations at Gullickson, there is a decent practice facility for (both?) the team(s) to use.
So, to sum up: All of our discussions are pointless. Nobody cares what HN thinks or wants to see happen with our athletics program. New baseball field.
WS
At least Doc kept MU competitive enough to get the SBC an interest.
How many mid majors could win a conference title, keep their HC, remain competitive, implode 2 years later, get back to 8, then 9 wins, beat a nationally ranked team, make the conference title game again?
Doesn't matter what conference you're in, that's not easy. Furthermore, looking at former CUSA mates, impossible to do.
Dan?
Complained about the lack of competition in SBC, and made sure any OOC game was easy...
He made Donnie Jones' scheduling look tough by comparison.
I was ecstatic when we won and still watch that WKU and WSU game from time to time, but Dan shouldn't be allowed to coast off of an accomplishment that happened six seasons ago.
The reality is, without Cato, Doc doesn' t have a title. Without Elmore, neither does Dan.
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They had to tarp off the seats.
Clearly that showed people weren't willing to pay for tickets because the product was underperforming.
But hey, maybe they had some advertising on them and could financially offset the loss, who knows?
But just that alone, showed a pretty big percentage were dissatisfied with the product.
I will say, your post is pretty much the epitome of token effort, since it holds the team to absolutely zero standards for winning.
The sad thing is Donnie's schedules were better. We played #10 UNC, WVU, Lousivlle, and Ole Miss. Granted Ole Miss wasn't anything great, but it's still an attempt to play a team from a power conference. Donnie probably sees Dan's schedules and thinks, "Hey wait. I could have had that?"
Dan also doesn't have any Memphis level programs in his conference slates either.
It’s just the way it is GHMY. If you don’t like it, call CS and tell him you are pulling your BG membership if he doesn’t fire Dan. What’s that you say? You’re not a BG member?
Let us know what he tells you…..
This can be said of just about any coach ever. Without Brady, Belichick doesn't have any super bowl rings. Doc's issue was that he didn't develop the talent or retain it when he brought it in. Also Elmore was far more luck than Cato was. Yes I know Shuler had to convince him to come here, but we still go him out of HS. Elmore is only at Marshall because circumstances led him out of VMI.
Even still strip away those players and Doc still has more to hang his hat on that Dan does and so much of the fan base wanted Doc ran out of town just about every season. There wasn't anything the Doc could do to win over the fans base. His records were picked apart and his accomplishments were constantly qualified. Dan stacks his own deck and is untouchable. To even venture into an honest conversation results in your intelligence and fanhood being called into question along with your donor level.
I'm fine with moving on from DD if that's the decision. I just chose to enjoy the season until the last couple of weeks.
This says three players and their parents want to run the program or they will take their little balls and go home..pathetic
"Oh gosh darn, Dan that energetic son of a biscuit...did you have fun Johnny? My goodness, those three's sure were close to going in, weren't they?"
"Yeah grandpa, I guess losing by 20 points isn't so bad when then ball is constantly shot aimlessly from the three point arc. Boy does it look fun when it flies!"
Let this be a lesson for all of us:
“Nothing good happens after midnight”
Time to revisit the original question. Mr Spears said he would give DD a year and reevaluate at the end of the season. Well the season is now officially over. If he decides to give Coach another extension then I sure hope he intervenes in the OOC scheduling.
More than likely D'Antoni's sister, and few others on the BOG, will "suggest to and/or persuade" President Smith, and others, like the AD, to give DD a little more time, like perhaps a 2-year extension or so, to continue the progress shown in the 22-23 season, and to correct the "flaws" and work out the "kinks" in his program. They will no doubt point out that Smith has more pressing irons in the fire, like raising the additional funds needed to see both the Smith Business facility AND the baseball stadium fully completed as quickly as possible. Implementing MU's recently released and detailed governance and operational plan for the next decade or so to bolster the University in several areas as the University's 200th anniversary approaches (2037), or just over a decade away, is certainly high up on the President's agenda also. Then there is the indication recently from AD Spears that another Athletic fund-raising capital campaign, probably to the tune of $60 million or more, is just on the horizon. Having some significant turmoil which probably will arise from jettisoning a head coach in a major sport who still is popular in many quarters and still has a lot of support among fans and alumni, etc., is not consistent with the above issues and items currently at the top of the Administration's business agenda now and for the immediate future, I would think.
Our schedule flat out CANT be this pathetic again next year... The NCAA tournament and NIT committees have sent a clear message that who you play matters just as much as your record. If you dont believe that, look about 3 hours to the North.
WVU is a 9 seed in the NCAA tournament with a 19-14 record, coming off a blowout loss to Kansas in the second round of the Big12 tourney... How can a team with such a shitty record be in the field, let alone a 9 seed you may ask?... They played either the #2 or #3 ranked schedule in the country (depending on what metric you are looking at).
Because we play in the Sun Belt, we are already behind the 8 ball when it comes to strength of schedule, so we have to pick up a couple top-25 games next year. With the NET rankings the way they are, "quality losses" and Quad records becoming a huge part of the discussion in college basketball, its time to get on the bus of scheduling some good teams.
We may not like it as fans, but there is no question a top-25 Quad 1 loss, does more for a school like us than a win over Glenville State, Coppin State, Chicago State, Miami Ohio, Robert Morris, etc etc etc. (Especially if it's a true road game and we can keep it respectable).
Looks like the staff needs to get a dog if they're scared to play a Quad 1 team or two.
The NCAA takes the tournament champion from the vomit SBC. Always will. Nothing more. Never will take more. Now the seeding matters a little bit. Look at what FAU got, for example, but at the end of the day, winners of the vomit SBC are going to be the ones in the dark uniforms in round one, every year.
As to the NIT, you are right. And DD does not care. He just wants to be play-pretend D1 college basketball coach, and pretend its still 1970, and all the bad things that have happened to Huntington, and more so to southern West Virginia, never happened. And CS does not care. First, of course, he understood that DD as basketball coach was the price he had to pay to get this job. But, second, they know they can play some cupcakes, then finish somewhere between 3rd and 6th in this vomit conference, and sell out the tarped over hald a stadium and maybe even make a little money.
So next year, look for a schedule that is just the same. Maybe replace Glenville with Fairmont or Concord. Maybe replace AT Queens with AT Radford or AT High Point or AT Presbyterian. A couple of MACers. Some rando geographically illogical matchup, probably because Cline or CS knows some body there.
This is a token effort.
If we were able to step outside of ourselves and view this purely from a “I have no dog in this fight” perspective, I think we would see that it’s an easy call from Spears pov. Re-hire for an additional year based on season’s results.
Lol. Yea. Some results. An inflated W/L record from a soft OoC schedule and choked away the important games. Losing to Queens, and inexcusable loss to ULM, choking to ODU, and then being bounced out of the conference tournament by an 11th seed when you had a week to prepare.
Sorry. It's only and easy call if you actually do not care about winning a championship. I bet Tom Herrion wishes he would have known he could have scheduled like Dan can. Donnie probably even rolls his eyes at our schedule.
9 seasons with no wins vs power conference teams, no regular season titles, an average finish of 5th in the conference, and only one championship.
Considering that this team only went 7 deep and we just lost our best player to graduation next season isn't going to be better than this season.
Time to move on.
