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What will Spears do?

Lol. Yea. Some results. An inflated W/L record from a soft OoC schedule and choked away the important games. Losing to Queens, and inexcusable loss to ULM, choking to ODU, and then being bounced out of the conference tournament by an 11th seed when you had a week to prepare.

Sorry. It's only and easy call if you actually do not care about winning a championship. I bet Tom Herrion wishes he would have known he could have scheduled like Dan can. Donnie probably even rolls his eyes at our schedule.

9 seasons with no wins vs power conference teams, no regular season titles, an average finish of 5th in the conference, and only one championship.

Considering that this team only went 7 deep and we just lost our best player to graduation next season isn't going to be better than this season.

Time to move on.

My first thought is to reply to this about how its a shame that Marshall fans are ripping on Marshalls results in regards to teams we play. That didnt use to happen. Marshall fans used to defend our results no matter who we played.

But...rather than going that route, I am going to take a deep breath, acknowledge the advice given by @mlblack16. and say, thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions Bleeds. I look forward each day to reading opinions that differ from my own so that I may be a better, more well rounded Marshall fan.

GO HERD!!!
 
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My first thought is to reply to this about how its a shame that Marshall fans are ripping on Marshalls results in regards to teams we play. That didnt use to happen. Marshall fans used to defend our results no matter who we played.

But...rather than going that route, I am going to take a deep breath, acknowledge the advise given by @mlblack16. and say, thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions Bleeds. I look forward each day to reading opinions that differ from my own so that I may be a better, more well rounded Marshall fan.

GO HERD!!!
Shaming your fellow fans is one thing, but taking advice from @mlblack16. ? Damn, nobody does that.
 
My first thought is to reply to this about how its a shame that Marshall fans are ripping on Marshalls results in regards to teams we play. That didnt use to happen. Marshall fans used to defend our results no matter who we played.
This isn't accurate... Especially in basketball... I've been around MU sports for 25 years or so and the basketball schedule has always been a talking point in years when MU has finished with a decent record.

I remember back in 2007, Marshall went 18-14 and the talk was that our schedule was too difficult -- CUSA included Memphis, Houston, UCF, UAB, etc then and we played at Louisville and WVU in Charleston.

Other years, like this year, the talk has been about how we set ourselves up with a bunch of cupcakes and then were/are angry that we didn't get any respect.

This year's 24-8 is probably less impressive than that 18-14... Spears and DD control the schedule now, so hopefully they make upgrades for next season.
 
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Lol. Yea. Some results. An inflated W/L record from a soft OoC schedule and choked away the important games. Losing to Queens, and inexcusable loss to ULM, choking to ODU, and then being bounced out of the conference tournament by an 11th seed when you had a week to prepare.

Sorry. It's only and easy call if you actually do not care about winning a championship. I bet Tom Herrion wishes he would have known he could have scheduled like Dan can. Donnie probably even rolls his eyes at our schedule.

9 seasons with no wins vs power conference teams, no regular season titles, an average finish of 5th in the conference, and only one championship.

Considering that this team only went 7 deep and we just lost our best player to graduation next season isn't going to be better than this season.

Time to move on.
Like I said: divorcing yourself from the very strong feelings you have (impossible?)
And removing your affinity for the Herd,
+ taking into account that so many positive
developments are happening in the AD right now - is this the time to fire the 2nd most winning coach in the history of the program?
 
My first thought is to reply to this about how its a shame that Marshall fans are ripping on Marshalls results in regards to teams we play. That didnt use to happen. Marshall fans used to defend our results no matter who we played.

But...rather than going that route, I am going to take a deep breath, acknowledge the advice given by @mlblack16. and say, thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions Bleeds. I look forward each day to reading opinions that differ from my own so that I may be a better, more well rounded Marshall fan.

GO HERD!!!
Not even the same thing. You can be happy with never winning anything or being home yet again because we fell flat to end the season if you'd like.

Defending our capabilities against people that say Marshall isn't on the level of other programs is different than being upset that your HC failed to create a schedule that would get us into legitimate conversations for at-large bids in tournaments that matter.

See you think we're bad fans. No I think you're a terrible fan. Of the worst actually. Fans like you accept anything and everything told and handed to them because they worship coaches, players, and administrators. That's how you end up with programs that only make NCAA tournaments once every three decades or win conference titles in football once 10-15 years. You honestly do not care if we win or lose because you think it's some kind of virtue to be all in no matter what and somehow you're a better fan because you don't expect anything out of the people running the program. You virtue signal off of your donations instead of actually wanting a return on your investment.

As pointed out you didn't think Tom Herrion should have been fired, you were perfectly happy with Doc, defended Snyder, and you have defended Marcum. Even saying he did a good job when everyone knows he was a disaster for this university. You're probably a David Ridpath fan too.

Marshall used to run itself like Alabama, Ohio State, and other successful athletic departments where the bar was winning championships. Boise State even said when they moved to I-A they modeled themselves after us. Now some of our fans are pissed at the AD because he wants us to readopt that mentality. The audacity that man said we're an NCAA or NIT program. How dare he say that. Does he not realize that we've never won anything in MBB. How dare this outsider not embrace our complacency.

A good fan that actually had any shred of pride in the school and the MBB program would be upset that the person leading it lost an NIT bid twice (ULM, ODU) and then failed to show up against an 11th seed in the first game in the conference tournament. A real fan of the school and program would see that that man has an expired contract (for the 2nd year in a row) and would want the AD to take that opportunity to explore other options because the current HC struggles at winning important games. Yes he elevated the program, but he has peaked and he's turning 76 years old in four months. Instead you're the type of fan that worships the coaches and because they wear green you fully believe they're one of us and should coach into perpetuity. You make them your friend instead of viewing them for exactly what they are. Hired employees that are paid to win championships. If it's just going to be all juice boxes, orange slices, and hugs then we should drop down to NAIA and stop wasting everyone's hard earned money.

Instead you're perfectly happy with averaging a 5th place finish. Kind of hypocritical of you seeing how you talk so much smack to eerdiot fans about never being more than mid-pack in the Big XII and posting that picture of them choking to Pitt every year on the anniversary of that game. That's weird. Didn't you just say we shouldn't be upset for losing to ODU or UCF back in 2005 because and I quote, "it was just two teams trying to win." Didn't you say that teams don't choke. Well that's rich. Why should you revel in the misery of wvu fans for choking while you yourself don't even care when your own team loses? Instead you bash your fellow fans for being upset after losses. Why do you think wvu fans should feel bad about their losses, but we shouldn't feel bad about ours? Rich Rod is a bum because he couldn't win the big game, but Doc still deserves to be our coach. Hmmm.

You can enjoy being an also ran if you want. Just don't bump threads telling people that they're opinions are dumb because we would actually like to see our team hoisting championship trophies, raising banners, and being in the same conversation with champions. Some of us would actually like to see our team playing in March Madness instead of once again having to watch other teams do it.
 
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Like I said: divorcing yourself from the very strong feelings you have (impossible?)
And removing your affinity for the Herd,
+ taking into account that so many positive
developments are happening in the AD right now - is this the time to fire the 2nd most winning coach in the history of the program?
Yes because he's not winning championships and he's 75 going on 76 years of age. He elevated this program, but he has peaked. That much is very clear. Contracts are not lifetime achievement awards. His 9 years when viewed in totality leave a lot to be desired. It's time to move on. We had a chance a clean break last year and didn't take it and we have a second chance again this year.

Dan is going to be retained though and it's rumored he's asking for at least a 3 year deal.

Considering that we only went seven deep this season and just lost our best player to graduation. Next season will be kind of a rebuilding year. Might as well bring in a new coach and do it.
 
Yes because he's not winning championships and he's 75 going on 76 years of age. He elevated this program, but he has peaked. That much is very clear. Contracts are not lifetime achievement awards. His 9 years when viewed in totality leave a lot to be desired. It's time to move on. We had a chance a clean break last year and didn't take it and we have a second chance again this year.

Dan is going to be retained though and it's rumored he's asking for at least a 3 year deal.

Considering that we only went seven deep this season and just lost our best player to graduation. Next season will be kind of a rebuilding year. Might as well bring in a new coach and do it.

Why bring in a new coach to do this alleged "rebuild."???

Four of the seven players in that rotation this year were new, and it turned out pretty daggone good.
 
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Why bring in a new coach to do this alleged "rebuild."

Four of the seven players in that rotation this year were new, and it turned out pretty daggone good.
Because it's time to move on. Dan has shown time and time again how far he will take us. Bring in someone new while there is movement to be made on the roster and let them build the future.


Pretty daggone good? Really. Lost to Queens(D-II Roster), lost to ULM, lost to ODU, and got bounced by an 11th seeded team. No championship. No NCAA Tournament. No NIT. All choked.

Eh, but we won 20 games(so did 97 other teams) against no one and get to sit at home in march and watch other teams play.

SO DAGGONE GOOD!
 
I appreciate that Dan accomplished what no other MU coach has ever done with the tournament win. The total body of his coaching is not impressive.
Exactly. Remove his best and worst seasons and what are you left with? Nothing, but average to bad basketball.
 
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Four of the seven players in that rotation this year were new, and it turned out pretty daggone good.
Lol... "pretty daggone good?" By who's standards? Our guys are sitting on their rear ends while there are 100 teams playing in the NCAA or NIT.

We played a pathetic schedule and finished third in the Sun Belt (America's 15th best conference) by choking away the two most important games of the season... If that's "pretty daggone good" we're in deep shit.

As a side note, I feel like the phrase "Pretty daggone good" should be on the back of one of DD's campy "Hillbilly Ball" t-shirts.
 
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This season was only "pretty daggone good" if you know absolutely nothing about basketball and accept mediocrity as long as the team in green wins a few games.

This season was an abject failure.
 
Exactly. Remove his best and worst seasons and what are you left with? Nothing, but average to bad basketball.
Sooooooooo…….what I think I hear you saying is that by removing best year (17-18) and worst (21-22?) we are left with average to bad basketball. Why not extrapolate this theory to the totality of the 100+ years we have been competing in the game?
Here goes:
Take away the ‘47-48 NAIB Natty champs,
All of the NCAA tourney teams, throw out the ‘67 NIT run when DD & George Stone took the big Apple by storm, add to that list any other year we were invited to the NIT……then what are you left with? Decades upon decades of average to bad basketball. Agree with that Bleeds?
My point: Why are we always bitching & moaning about hiring a bball coach to take us to the promised land when all we’ve ever done is wander around in the desert??
 
Our schedule flat out CANT be this pathetic again next year... The NCAA tournament and NIT committees have sent a clear message that who you play matters just as much as your record. If you dont believe that, look about 3 hours to the North.

WVU is a 9 seed in the NCAA tournament with a 19-14 record, coming off a blowout loss to Kansas in the second round of the Big12 tourney... How can a team with such a shitty record be in the field, let alone a 9 seed you may ask?... They played either the #2 or #3 ranked schedule in the country (depending on what metric you are looking at).

Because we play in the Sun Belt, we are already behind the 8 ball when it comes to strength of schedule, so we have to pick up a couple top-25 games next year. With the NET rankings the way they are, "quality losses" and Quad records becoming a huge part of the discussion in college basketball, its time to get on the bus of scheduling some good teams.

We may not like it as fans, but there is no question a top-25 Quad 1 loss, does more for a school like us than a win over Glenville State, Coppin State, Chicago State, Miami Ohio, Robert Morris, etc etc etc. (Especially if it's a true road game and we can keep it respectable).

In Dan’s defense, if he were to have scheduled tougher he still wouldn’t have had the Herd in the NIT since he would have lost all those games against tougher opponents. He wasn’t dumb either for putting together the opponents that he did as he was able to fool a lot of people into thinking it was a good season.
 
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The winner of the NCAA Tournament will have had a great season. The winner of the NIT will have had a good season. The winner of a conference title or a tournament title will have had a successful season. Everyone else failed.
 
Sooooooooo…….what I think I hear you saying is that by removing best year (17-18) and worst (21-22?) we are left with average to bad basketball. Why not extrapolate this theory to the totality of the 100+ years we have been competing in the game?
Here goes:
Take away the ‘47-48 NAIB Natty champs,
All of the NCAA tourney teams, throw out the ‘67 NIT run when DD & George Stone took the big Apple by storm, add to that list any other year we were invited to the NIT……then what are you left with? Decades upon decades of average to bad basketball. Agree with that Bleeds?
My point: Why are we always bitching & moaning about hiring a bball coach to take us to the promised land when all we’ve ever done is wander around in the desert??

Your argument doesn't take into consideration all the different coaches who's records generated that data. Bleed's argument is based off the body of work produced by one coach. HIS record is what is being discussed. I don't like the suggestion of throwing out his best and worst seasons, but it creates a valid argument in that, outside of the one magical season, Dan has not produced consistent results.

The last part of your argument appears to insinuate that you don't care if we ever win, you're satisfied with being/staying perpetually mediocre, and don't see the point in striving to be better?
 
Our schedule flat out CANT be this pathetic again next year... The NCAA tournament and NIT committees have sent a clear message that who you play matters just as much as your record. If you dont believe that, look about 3 hours to the North.

WVU is a 9 seed in the NCAA tournament with a 19-14 record, coming off a blowout loss to Kansas in the second round of the Big12 tourney... How can a team with such a shitty record be in the field, let alone a 9 seed you may ask?... They played either the #2 or #3 ranked schedule in the country (depending on what metric you are looking at).

Because we play in the Sun Belt, we are already behind the 8 ball when it comes to strength of schedule, so we have to pick up a couple top-25 games next year. With the NET rankings the way they are, "quality losses" and Quad records becoming a huge part of the discussion in college basketball, its time to get on the bus of scheduling some good teams.

We may not like it as fans, but there is no question a top-25 Quad 1 loss, does more for a school like us than a win over Glenville State, Coppin State, Chicago State, Miami Ohio, Robert Morris, etc etc etc. (Especially if it's a true road game and we can keep it respectable).
Agree 100 percent
 
I expect next season to be 12-13 wins at best.
No need to fret about next year's record yet... We return 4 starters and I'm sure we already have Pikeville, Concord, and a slew of DI dregs lined up to make sure we get easy wins and give our veteran team "confidence."

The Sun Belt will still be the same mediocre league it has been forever, so there won't be any juggernaut there.

We'll win 20+ games next year too... And like this year, if we don't win the conference tournament, it won't mean a thing.
 
No need to fret about next year's record yet... We return 4 starters and I'm sure we already have Pikeville, Concord, and a slew of DI dregs lined up to make sure we get easy wins and give our veteran team "confidence."

The Sun Belt will still be the same mediocre league it has been forever, so there won't be any juggernaut there.

We'll win 20+ games next year too... And like this year, if we don't win the conference tournament, it won't mean a thing.
Playing non D-I school in the regular season must end now....it's embarrassing and has no value!
 
As if we needed any proof DD will be back next year... The athletic department just sent out marketing materials for the MU Summer Basketball Camps that are in June/July -- With DD on the poster.

You don't put the guy on the promotional materials for events in June/July if you are going run him off.
 
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As if we needed any proof DD will be back next year... The athletic department just sent out marketing materials for the MU Summer Basketball Camps that are in June/July -- With DD on the poster.

You don't put the guy on the promotional materials for events in June/July if you are going run him off.
Always enjoy your very sound and sensible posts. Kudos sir.
 
Sooooooooo…….what I think I hear you saying is that by removing best year (17-18) and worst (21-22?) we are left with average to bad basketball. Why not extrapolate this theory to the totality of the 100+ years we have been competing in the game?
Here goes:
Take away the ‘47-48 NAIB Natty champs,
All of the NCAA tourney teams, throw out the ‘67 NIT run when DD & George Stone took the big Apple by storm, add to that list any other year we were invited to the NIT……then what are you left with? Decades upon decades of average to bad basketball. Agree with that Bleeds?
My point: Why are we always bitching & moaning about hiring a bball coach to take us to the promised land when all we’ve ever done is wander around in the desert??
So because we've always sucked we should embrace that we suck and never expect to do anything but suck. Gotcha. Great attitude. We should just drop down to NAIA then.
 
Your argument doesn't take into consideration all the different coaches who's records generated that data. Bleed's argument is based off the body of work produced by one coach. HIS record is what is being discussed. I don't like the suggestion of throwing out his best and worst seasons, but it creates a valid argument in that, outside of the one magical season, Dan has not produced consistent results.

The last part of your argument appears to insinuate that you don't care if we ever win, you're satisfied with being/staying perpetually mediocre, and don't see the point in striving to be better?
Yes. When analyzing data you throw out the outliers if you want the true average. Most of the time Dan is finishing in the middle of the conference. After 9 years why on earth would you give the man more time and more money when the evidence proves out that he cannot improve the program an further.
 
As if we needed any proof DD will be back next year... The athletic department just sent out marketing materials for the MU Summer Basketball Camps that are in June/July -- With DD on the poster.

You don't put the guy on the promotional materials for events in June/July if you are going run him off.
Dan is coming back. I work with a guy who is close friends with someone on the staff. I asked him if his friend gives him any inclination that he's worried about his job. He said that there is absolutely no worries amongst the staff about losing their jobs.

According to the basketball zealots on Herdfans, Dan is asking for a 3 year deal. If he gets retained, let alone a 3yr deal, then you know the administration doesn't actually care about elevating the program. As @The Real SamC calls it. A "token" effort.
 
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Time to revisit the original question. Mr Spears said he would give DD a year and reevaluate at the end of the season. Well the season is now officially over. If he decides to give Coach another extension then I sure hope he intervenes in the OOC scheduling.

I'd schedule DD the absolute hardest schedule I could find.

He either shows he can coach and make a decent showing OOC, thus, keeping the expectations of the program (the actual ones like conference titles) present.
If he burns on re-entry, then show him the door.
 
Having some significant turmoil which probably will arise from jettisoning a head coach in a major sport who still is popular in many quarters and still has a lot of support among fans and alumni, etc., is not consistent with the above issues and items currently at the top of the Administration's business agenda now and for the immediate future, I would think.

Gonna have to disagree.
Many big supporters of Dan, saw this weak schedule and were legit excited at a SBC regular season title and tournament run...and were let down, badly...twice.

Even they are for Dan stepping down.
 
I'd schedule DD the absolute hardest schedule I could find.

He either shows he can coach and make a decent showing OOC, thus, keeping the expectations of the program (the actual ones like conference titles) present.
If he burns on re-entry, then show him the door.
Here are a handful of teams for next year's DD-picked schedule...

Concord (DII)
Mississippi Valley State (5-27) -- Last in the SWAC
VMI (7-25) -- Last in the Southern
Eastern Illinois (9-22) -- Last in the Ohio Valley Conference
Long Island (3-27) -- Last in the Northeast Conference
"Rival" Coppin State (9-23) -- Next to last in the MEAC
"Rival" Chicago State (11-20) -- Pathetic independent
"Rival" Robert Morris (15-17) -- Horizon League trash
Bowling Green (11-20) -- MAC trash
Miami Ohio (12-20) -- MAC trash
Akron (22-11) -- Because for some reason we always have to play Akron
Morehead State (21-12) -- Because we always want Morehead
 
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I'd schedule DD the absolute hardest schedule I could find.

He either shows he can coach and make a decent showing OOC, thus, keeping the expectations of the program (the actual ones like conference titles) present.
If he burns on re-entry, then show him the door.
Basketball scheduling should follow the same model that football does. We just went to freaking Notre Dame. You don't get much more blue blood than that. We're playing VT and @NCST this season. While I am not the biggest Huff fan, he sure isn't scared to go up against anyone.

The football team went on the road to South Bend, Indiana and played on national TV while the MBB wnet on the road to face a former D-II program. That's uncalled for.

Imagine the reactions if Huff and Spears decided that for 2024 we were going to schedule the lowest FCS team we could find and then add in UMASS, Akron, and Temple.

It is absolutely ridiculous how the MBB program is handled under Dan. It's even worse how little flack they get for it.
 
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Here are a handful of teams for next year's DD-picked schedule...

Concord (DII)
Mississippi Valley State (5-27) -- Last in the SWAC
VMI (7-25) -- Last in the Southern
Eastern Illinois (9-22) -- Last in the Ohio Valley Conference
Long Island (3-27) -- Last in the Northeast Conference
"Rival" Coppin State (9-23) -- Next to last in the MEAC
"Rival" Chicago State (11-20) -- Pathetic independent
"Rival" Robert Morris (15-17) -- Horizon League trash
Bowling Green (11-20) -- MAC trash
Miami Ohio (12-20) -- MAC trash
Akron (22-11) -- Because for some reason we always have to play Akron
Morehead State (21-12) -- Because we always want Morehead
I just want a fair and representative slate! We don't need to play @ UNC, Duke and UK in November but we don't need to be playing the "thrash" you mentioned! We should never play a non D-I on the regular schedule.
 
I just want a fair and representative slate! We don't need to play @ UNC, Duke and UK in November but we don't need to be playing the "thrash" you mentioned! We should never play a non D-I on the regular schedule.
We need at least one big game. We do it in football where upsets are less likely to happen. We went to #3 Syracuse with Herrion and nearly won that one. This team, well any team, that wants to be a championship team needs to be tested in the OoC slate.

Not to mention how awesome it would be to take a big boy down like we did with Notre Dame.
 
Reality is that MU is now in the vomit SBC. The SBC, IMHO, will be, after all the "realignment" be the best of the G5 in football, and its best will be competitive with teams from, at least, the bottom 2 "P5" leagues (Pac How Many Ever, and "Big" 12). In baseball, which is the #2 sport for about half of this league, its awesome. Among the top 3-4 baseball conferences. Coastal Carolina won the National Championship within this decade. In soccer it is also awesome. Between our regular teams and the "name" schools that are soccer-only members, it is either the best or second best men's soccer league. WE won the National Championship.

But, in men's basketball, it is pure vomit. CUSA wasn't much better, but it was better. The only conferences lower than the vomit SBC are the 2 HBCU conferences, and the "bus and gym" small leagues that consist of schools that shouldn't be in D1 in the first place (Southland, Big South, Northeast, MAAC, America East, etc.) SBC is THE bottom conference among those that really belong in D1.

That means several things:

- We need to play at least 2 "name" teams for no-return cash, every year.
- We must NEVER play a non D1 program under any circumstances, period.
- We need to be in one of those travel agent driven warm place tournaments every November, with similar sized or larger fan bases.
- Other than a few tune ups, no more than 3, the rest of our non-conference schedule must be similar sized and similar commitment programs, preferably reasonably local, as we travel enough in this spread out league.
- 20 wins, heck 24 wins, is NOT an accomplishment. This league is so weak, that is a minimum expectation, every year.

But this is a token effort. Next year's schedule will look a lot like this year's. The gullible super-fans will get all warm about a meaningless gaudy record. It won't mean a thing.

This is a token effort.
 
We are getting to the point that we play 30 warm up games only to lose in the first round of the Sun Belt tournament.



dumb-and-dumber-yeah.gif
 
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We need at least one big game. We do it in football where upsets are less likely to happen. We went to #3 Syracuse with Herrion and nearly won that one. This team, well any team, that wants to be a championship team needs to be tested in the OoC slate.

Not to mention how awesome it would be to take a big boy down like we did with Notre Dame.
I agree one or maybe two money games are needed!
 
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- We need to play at least 2 "name" teams for no-return cash, every year.
- We must NEVER play a non D1 program under any circumstances, period.
- We need to be in one of those travel agent driven warm place tournaments every November, with similar sized or larger fan bases.
- Other than a few tune ups, no more than 3, the rest of our non-conference schedule must be similar sized and similar commitment programs, preferably reasonably local, as we travel enough in this spread out league.
This seems entirely reasonable... No one is saying we need 8 P5 games or anything ridiculous, but we certainly need 2-3 P5 games and several more against comparable mid-majors.

The first two games of the year, hell play Coppin State and Tennessee State, win by 20, everyone gets to play, mommy and daddy can post to Facebook how proud they are, etc.

After that... Real basketball starts.
 
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