YE Sagarin updated to include Snyder Years

[banker6796]

Final Sagarin Ratings for both coaches from best to worst:

1999 - 13 Pruett
2014 - 23 John
2001 - 34 Pruett
1997 - 36 Pruett
2002 - 53 Pruett
1998 - 54 Pruett
2003 - 56 Pruett
2013 - 61 John
2015 - 66 John
2000 - 74 Pruett
2009 - 79 Snyder
2011 - 79 John
2018 - 79 John
2019 - 85 (currently) John
2017 - 85 John
2008 - 101 Snyder
2006 - 102 Snyder
2004 - 106 Pruett
2005 - 106 Snyder
2012 - 107 John
2010 - 113 John
2007 - 125 Snyder
2016 - 160 John

three of the four worst years still John. Too bad Sagarin wasn't around when Charlie Snyder was coach, could have helped John out.

Averages
Legendary Bobby Pruett - 53.25
John (Field Position) Holliday - 85.80
Mark (Grey Goose) Snyder - 102.60

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Alright!!!! Another thread berating the accomplishments of our current coach

Yawn.

 

[banker6796]

All I'm doing is posting facts. If you take that to mean I am berating him, perhaps you should be upset with him for not accomplishing more as the head coach. It would be outstanding if he had led us to the top half of FBS more than twice, but he hasn't. That's not my fault. He's been paid more than $6,000,000 by Marshall, there should be some level of expectation on performance.

 

[Aaron Perkins]

The level of disrespect that you show on a daily basis on here surprises me. I never remember it being that bad.

But hey, whatever makes ya feel better I guess

 

[extragreen]

The level of disrespect that you show on a daily basis on here surprises me. I never remember it being that bad.

But hey, whatever makes ya feel better I guess

Really? You don't remember telling us redneck sum britches you hoped Marshall would lose so we wouldn't come back to another Herd football game?

 

[Aaron Perkins]

What??

 

[extragreen]

What??

Yeah, exactly. What?

 

[HerdyGurdyMan]

The level of disrespect that you show on a daily basis on here surprises me. I never remember it being that bad.

But hey, whatever makes ya feel better I guess

Where on the doll did Bobby Pruett touch you Aaron?

 

[Marine03]

Alright!!!! Another thread berating the accomplishments of our current coach

Yawn.

What accomplishments? 1 title is singular not plural

 

[i am herdman]

Really? You don't remember telling us redneck sum britches you hoped Marshall would lose so we wouldn't come back to another Herd football game?

Wow, Perkins did you say that?

 

[i am herdman]

Alright!!!! Another thread berating the accomplishments of our current coach

Yawn.

Those are facts. That is reality.

 

[trace_94]

Crunched a few numbers myself and these are as telling as anything: since Cato graduated, our offense is on average 74th in the FBS in scoring offense. In that same timeframe, our defense is 40th on average in scoring defense. And that’s even with being 107th in scoring defense in 2016. Gotta start wondering if the offense will ever catch up to the defense.

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Wow, Perkins did you say that?

Not sure when i would have ever said that.

 

[banker6796]

Crunched a few numbers myself and these are as telling as anything: since Cato graduated, our offense is on average 74th in the FBS in scoring offense. In that same timeframe, our defense is 40th on average in scoring defense. And that’s even with being 107th in scoring defense in 2016. Gotta start wondering if the offense will ever catch up to the defense.

Not with John as the head coach. Nehlen didn't believe in or trust offense. Football is all about field position, a good kicking game, and defense. Forget that schools like Ohio State, Alabama, and Clemson all used to be like that but changed to stay on top. Forget that the top G5 schools like Boise, UCF, and Memphis all make their hay with an uptempo style. Forget that even the NFL is evolving with QBs like Jackson and Watson and turning up the pace to beat teams like the Patriots.

John misses out on what I consider the most important concept on offense - possessions are limited and therefore every single one is valuable. The goal of every offensive possession is to score points, but John, in his own words, has admitted he doesn't believe that, "we don't need to score like we did in 2012-2014 because we have a better defense now". That's why he's the king of punting inside the opponents 40, something every analytic study will tell you is flat out stupid.

His philosophy is to control the ball and clock, which is fine in an old school way when you have a team that has superior talent and can consistently execute at a high level without penalties. We don't have that. We simply can't consistently go on 6 minute, 14 play drives. Few teams can. We need a style that creates more explosive plays where we can get points from 8-10 play drives. If we get behind the chains, we have nothing.

 

[extragreen]

Not sure when i would have ever said that.

Try about 2007. You posted as Mr 05, correct?

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Try about 2007. You posted as Mr 05, correct?

Yes. In what context did I post that? Just curious.

 

[goherd44]

Social media never forgets and neither does Herdnation apparently

 

[extragreen]

Yes. In what context did I post that? Just curious.

Same exact scenario as now, in the context of calling people out because they weren't happy with Snides.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Those in the Marshall AD and Administration love it here. They know they won’t be fired for mediocrity or incompetence. Nice gig if you can get it.

 

[herdalicious]

In defense of Aaron, there is nothing wrong with being an optimist. And in defense of banker, there's nothing wrong with being a pessimist.

Put the two together and voila - message board!

 

[extragreen]

Optimist versus pessimist? In the last 4 years in the conference we went 18-14 and finished 6th/3rd/2nd/2nd in our 7 team division. This year we lost to both the 4th and 5th place finisher in that same division, the game against the 7th place finisher was in doubt until 4 minutes left in the game and the game against the 6th place finisher was won in OT at the Joan.

If in the off season between 2015 and 2016 you had been asked if the above was acceptable, how many of you would have said yes?

 

[banker6796]

Not a pessimist at all, I am data driven and fact based, always have been. I didn't make those numbers up, they are from a guy who is considered one of the leading people when it comes to modeling predictive outcomes for college football.

Being data driven I understand that once you have an adequate sample size you really don't need to wait to draw conclusions. This sample size shows that while John is capable of a great season under the right circumstances it is much more likely that he will produce an outcome that is far below average given the level of competition we play.

 

[goherd44]

Optimist versus pessimist? In the last 4 years in the conference we went 18-14 and finished 6th/3rd/2nd/2nd in our 7 team division. This year we lost to both the 4th and 5th place finisher in that same division, the game against the 7th place finisher was in doubt until 4 minutes left in the game and the game against the 6th place finisher was won in OT at the Joan.

If in the off season between 2015 and 2016 you had been asked if the above was acceptable, how many of you would have said yes?

The optimist on this board says look at those finishes of 6/3/2/2 and says Doc is trending in the right direction and will have another CUSA Championship in another season or two. While the pessimist says you should never lose the conference games we have lost the past few years. Especially going to Charlotte with everything on the line and then coming home and beating a much better opponent when it's pretty much too late.
I can agree with the optimist that if things work out Doc could have another conference championship in a year or two, but I can also agree with the pessimist that no team should lose those games.
I agree with banker and I like statistics. They aren't always right but they are enough of the time to know not to go against them. We are unlikely to just stop losing the games we shouldn't when it matters most under Doc unless everything just happens to fall into place which statistically isn't likely to happen.

 

[riflearm2]

The level of disrespect that you show on a daily basis on here surprises me. I never remember it being that bad.

But hey, whatever makes ya feel better I guess

Do you have any justification for Marshall not even winning the DIVISION for five straight years considering . . .

1) One of the other six teams wasn't even playing FBS football at the start of those five years
2) A second of those six teams was playing its very first year of FBS football at the start of those five years
3) A third, fourth, and fifth school were underperforming so badly that all three have fired their head coaches over these five years (which not only shows they have been bad but also that they take years to rebuild under a new head coach).

So, any justification for not even winning the division considering just how bad the rest of the division has been during this stretch and not even taking into consideration the major advantages to winning Marshall has over all of them?

 

[pdbailey]

Final Sagarin Ratings for both coaches from best to worst:

1999 - 13 Pruett
2014 - 23 John
2001 - 34 Pruett
1997 - 36 Pruett
2002 - 53 Pruett
1998 - 54 Pruett
2003 - 56 Pruett
2013 - 61 John
2015 - 66 John
2000 - 74 Pruett
2009 - 79 Snyder
2011 - 79 John
2018 - 79 John
2019 - 85 (currently) John
2017 - 85 John
2008 - 101 Snyder
2006 - 102 Snyder
2004 - 106 Pruett
2005 - 106 Snyder
2012 - 107 John
2010 - 113 John
2007 - 125 Snyder
2016 - 160 John

three of the four worst years still John. Too bad Sagarin wasn't around when Charlie Snyder was coach, could have helped John out.

Averages
Legendary Bobby Pruett - 53.25
John (Field Position) Holliday - 85.80
Mark (Grey Goose) Snyder - 102.60

Use the actual ratings and not the rank to get a true ranking of the seasons, since there is a fluctuation in the number of teams from year to year playing D1 football, and using the rating allows you to compare across seasons. I'm sure Pruett's teams will still be rated higher in most cases, but Snyder's 2009 team will slide down some.

 

[Dorrej]

Snyder's 2009 team will slide down some.