Coach Stowers propaganda rebuttal

[banker6796]

Two out of ten years.

In only two out of ten years has John Holliday had a team he has led as head coach finish in the top half of all FBS teams.

Two out of ten.

He better be finding another Cato and Shuler because he would be O'fer ten without them.

Hey Coach Stowers, think we finish in the top half next year - 65 or higher? Or is that some lofty, decades old, expectation?

 

[banker6796]

We could’ve been 0-11 and I still would’ve been there yesterday for the entire game.

That’s the mentality I wish more people had.

You’re there to support the university, not an individual coach or player.

So, if you had a child that became addicted to drugs you would just support them and not encourage them to change to improve their life? "Son, I love you. You just keep smoking that meth and I'll be right here for you. You're doing well enough."

 

[MARSHALL77]

In two years, when asked who is the “winningest coach in Marshall history,” you’ll have to say Doc Holliday.

Throw out the ratings and opinions. They won’t matter then.

Doc will have surpassed Pruett’s 94 wins.

Are you related to Holliday , like a son he just found out about or on his payroll or something. Getting a little thick over the last few weeks.

 

[mlblack16.]

Two out of ten years.

In only two out of ten years has John Holliday had a team he has led as head coach finish in the top half of all FBS teams.

Two out of ten.

He better be finding another Cato and Shuler because he would be O'fer ten without them.

Hey Coach Stowers, think we finish in the top half next year - 65 or higher? Or is that some lofty, decades old, expectation?

Be sure to tag the Supa Fan @Josh Stowers

 

[cottrell75]

Obvious to you and the dozens of others in attendance yesterday.

We could’ve been 0-11 and I still would’ve been there yesterday for the entire game.

That’s the mentality I wish more people had.

You’re there to support the university, not an individual coach or player.

Will you support the university like that once you get Duke season tickets?

 

[Josh Stowers]

Will you support the university like that once you get Duke season tickets?

Why wouldn’t I?

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Doc will be remembered a little like Sonny Randle. Some loved him, many hated him. He however will struggle to be remembered as an all time great because he never made himself “part” of Marshall other than his paycheck and attire on the sideline.

I am staying out of the rest of this. But this...this right here...is a ridiculous, disrespectful comment.

Many of you guys disrespect the man, calling him John, etc. and don’t even say well that’s his name. Everyone knows the childish back handed reasons you are saying it. But to question this guy as not making himself a part of Marshall

He is a part of Marshall, but more importantly, Marshall is a part of him, and a huge part of him.

Carry on with the hate.

Go Herd

 

[Marine03]

In two years, when asked who is the “winningest coach in Marshall history,” you’ll have to say Doc Holliday.

Throw out the ratings and opinions. They won’t matter then.

Doc will have surpassed Pruett’s 94 wins.

And still couldn’t carry his jockstrap. Hamrick will let John hang around long enough to do just that and in doing so will drive the program down even further than it is. And, regardless of how many games John wins with this watered down schedule, until he surpasses Pruett title number he will and always be behind him as our
“winningness coach”

 

[jrod64]

Of all the things ever said on here, this may be the most ridiculous.

I’d suggest attending a fountain ceremony and then make your decision as to whether or not he’s a “part of Marshall.”

Hell, he’s a bigger part of Marshall than you or I ever will be. It’s shameful that you’d even suggest otherwise.

 

[jrod64]

Other than speaking at the fountain ceremony name 1 thing Holliday does for the community..... Pruett was all over town speaking at numerous events and representing Marshall. .... go ahead we are waiting....

 

[Marine03]

I am staying out of the rest of this. But this...this right here...is a ridiculous, disrespectful comment.

Many of you guys disrespect the man, calling him John, etc. and don’t even say well that’s his name. Everyone knows the childish back handed reasons you are saying it. But to question this guy as not making himself a part of Marshall

He is a part of Marshall, but more importantly, Marshall is a part of him, and a huge part of him.

Carry on with the hate.

Go Herd

I call him John and started it. The real Doc Holiday was a gunslinger.

I am staying out of the rest of this. But this...this right here...is a ridiculous, disrespectful comment.

Many of you guys disrespect the man, calling him John, etc. and don’t even say well that’s his name. Everyone knows the childish back handed reasons you are saying it. But to question this guy as not making himself a part of Marshall

He is a part of Marshall, but more importantly, Marshall is a part of him, and a huge part of him.

Carry on with the hate.

Go Herd

I don’t begrudge him taken the Marshall job. And yes he is a part of Marshall and I wouldn’t say otherwise, he always will be. However, it’s time for a change, the product on the field suggests it, so does the fans support, and eventually the donor support. All things needed to make a successful program. Snyder had the same issues and finally the right thing was done, someone needs to do the same here.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Other than speaking at the fountain ceremony name 1 thing Holliday does for the community..... Pruett was all over town speaking at numerous events and representing Marshall. .... go ahead we are waiting....

I don't need to defend Doc in regards to his devotion to Marshall and I'm certainly not going to do so to someone that is actively trying recruit others in his "boycott."

 

[banker6796]

I don't need to defend Doc in regards to his devotion to Marshall and I'm certainly not going to do so to someone that is actively trying recruit others in his "boycott."

Translation: "I got nothin'".

 

[Josh Stowers]

Translation: "I got nothin'".

Translation: It’s pointless to talk to some people.

Being upset with the play on the field is one thing, but trying to act like Doc doesn’t care about Marshall is flat out stupidity.

 

[Herd1972]

So, if you had a child that became addicted to drugs you would just support them and not encourage them to change to improve their life? "Son, I love you. You just keep smoking that meth and I'll be right here for you. You're doing well enough."

Comparing a life problem, many in our community experience every day, to our concern over an 8-4 football team, hardly seem relatable.

 

[Josh Stowers]

So, if you had a child that became addicted to drugs you would just support them and not encourage them to change to improve their life? "Son, I love you. You just keep smoking that meth and I'll be right here for you. You're doing well enough."

Well, I certainly hope you look at your children much differently than you look at Marshall Football otherwise, you're a shitty parent.

 

[whf2]

Not taking sides in this Doc argument because no one is going to change their mind. But to call one side condescending, and not recognizing the other to be doing the same, is the issue here IMHO.

How about everyone giving "stop teaching others why their wrong" a chance. No opinions are going to be changed on this board. That isn't the purpose most of us come here anyway,

I come to get pissed at the asinine comments of others (hehe),

 

[imherdfan]

This reminds me of political arguments I see on my Facebook page every day...

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

We could’ve been 0-11 and I still would’ve been there yesterday for the entire game.

That’s the mentality I wish more people had.

You’re there to support the university, not an individual coach or player.

This is Hamrick's mentality, as noted when he attacked the fans over attendance.

And this is exactly the attitude that has let a respected program turn mediocre.

No fan, student, or alumnus owes it to the university to be at a damn football game.

Does Marshall owe fans, students, or alumni a great football program? Nope. But if it wants people to buy tickets and attend games, the university needs to be committed to striving for excellence on the field.

I do not get how this can be hard to understand.

 

[banker6796]

Well, I certainly hope you look at your children much differently than you look at Marshall Football otherwise, you're a shitty parent.

Well, that feels like a personal attack, the kind made by a person who is coming from a losing position.

The analogy isn't as bad as you pretend. If you care about something or someone and recognize it is showing destructive behavior, you have a duty to try and correct the destructive behavior, help them understand that they, through their actions, are ruining the thing you care about.

John doesn't lose games because, as the administration would like to believe, he has all these disadvantages. It's actually the opposite, he wins games because he has been given many advantages. The issue is that, even with all these advantages bestowed upon him, he is diluting the program and its future by putting a team on the field that is often ill prepared and poorly motivated. There is simply no way that talent is the issue. A team good enough to beat FAU, WKU and La Tech is good enough, if properly prepared and motivated, to beat MTSU and Charlotte.

John is stubborn and lacks the ability to be introspective. It was really all summed up when he took the job, he had a plan and that plan was infallible. The problem is that he believes that even when the plan is failing, be it in overall program direction or a plan for a specific game. This inability to adapt to a situation right in front of him, i.e. lack of ability to adjust, is why he has, and will continue, to underperform. He's not going to change.

So you can continue to support him (at the cost of the program) and be happy with his inability to achieve success and to be just good enough, but I'm not going to do that. John is right that Marshall is not your average school, the program does mean more to the community than most anywhere else. That's not just due to the crash, it's because it is a source of pride and inspiration in an otherwise depressed area that is the constant butt of jokes over everything from physical traits to poverty. We need the program to be great, not just good enough.

 

[Herdfaninnoke]

I attended the Marshall hall of fame induction this year to see a friend receive this honor. It was the first one I’ve attended. The event was embarrassing to say the least. The food was little snacks on plastic trays the projector didn’t work for what was a less than exciting collage of pictures. I can tell all of you that neither Holiday nor Hamrick attended the induction but Coach Bob Pruett was there. That left a big impression on all who attended.

 

[Josh Stowers]

This is Hamrick's mentality, as noted when he attacked the fans over attendance.

And this is exactly the attitude that has let a respected program turn mediocre.

No fan, student, or alumnus owes it to the university to be at a damn football game.

Does Marshall owe fans, students, or alumni a great football program? Nope. But if it wants people to buy tickets and attend games, the university needs to be committed to striving for excellence on the field.

I do not get how this can be hard to understand.

I'm not saying you owe the university anything. I don't go because I feel obligated. I go because I enjoy it.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Well, that feels like a personal attack

Not personal at all. I'd say that to anyone. It's how I feel.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I'm not saying you owe the university anything. I don't go because I feel obligated. I go because I enjoy it.

A lot of people do not enjoy seeing a program they love play like shit. Are the fans spoiled? Goddamn right we are...and we should be, we know what this program is capable of.

Alternatively, one could take this "enjoy it" thing back to the game day experience threads. The athletic program can't even get the little things right. It's an acceptance of mediocrity on so many different levels.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

If any coach stays at school long enough there’s a good chance they’ll become the all time wins leader.

Wouldn’t a better comparison be made based on equal number of years two coaches were at the same school. Regardless if one stays longer than the other.


I actually think Pruett and Donnan were much better HC’s than Doc.
Donnan is the best in my mind, all things considered. Jmo

 

[mlblack16.]

It's an acceptance of mediocrity on so many different levels.

Sadly, it's folks like @Aaron Perkins and Coach @Josh Stowers who perpetuate this acceptance of mediocrity. They cannot see the irony in that their supa fandom is actually only more detrimental to the program than the majority who they try to call out by virtue-signalling.

From Aaron's temper tantrum tweets to Coach Stowers' constant, "I'm an awesome fan, because I cheer for Doc no matter how bad his record" they both do more harm than good.

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Sadly, it's folks like @Aaron Perkins and Coach @Josh Stowers who perpetuate this acceptance of mediocrity. They cannot see the irony in that their supa fandom is actually only more detrimental to the program than the majority who they try to call out by virtue-signalling.

From Aaron's temper tantrum tweets to Coach Stowers' constant, "I'm an awesome fan, because I cheer for Doc no matter how bad his record" they both do more harm than good.

How many games Have i kept you from?

For that matter when was the last game you attended?

The excuses I have read in the last couple of posts in this thread are laughable.

But by all means. Keep blaming the guy that supports the program you allegedly love.

Yes I question fandom. But you are right. You are a fan, as is Raoul I guess. But definitely nothing more than a casual fan.

And yes. There is a difference. Period.

Go Herd!!

 

[mlblack16.]

How many games I have kept you from?

For that matter when was the last game you attended?

The excuses I have read in the last couple of posts in this thread are laughable.

But by all means. Keep blaming the guy that supports the program you allegedly love.

Yes I question fandom. But you are right. You are a fan, as is Raoul I guess. But definitely nothing more than a casual fan.

And yes. There is a difference. Period.

Go Herd!!

Please read and memorize this post, word for word, from our pal Bleeds:

You know how dumb that statement sounds now that I read the comments. You cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that Marshall faces more obstacles now than we did in 1997 when we made the jump. We didn't just have good seasons for a transition team. We straight up dominated the competition.

Marshall is its own worst enemy. How many decades was "WE PLAY FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS" our motto, mantra, or whatever you want to call it. Now they want us to come to grips with the fact that existence is so tough that we can no longer expect to compete for division and conference titles in this horrible conference we play in.

Everyone in that entire athletic department should be let go. If this is the prevailing attitude. I don't care if we fail as long as the leadership of our program is out there busting their butts trying to be the absolute best at the end of every single season. Not sitting there saying that it's just too difficult. Screw that garbage. I want an Athletic Director that has a George Steinbrenner mentality. Win at all costs. That is all that matters. Second place is just the first loser and we didn't even play for second place.

What a crock this is. I'll tell you something else. You superfans are the true problem with this program. You have made this so personal and turned this stuff into "family" and made these coaches your idols and friends that you will accept any product they put on the field because you're being a true fan. No you're an enabler. You're the friend that refuses to tell their friend that they have a drinking problem and just allows them to drink themselves to death. You're the girl that refuses to tell her fat friend not to wear certain clothes and then she gets made fun of out there wearing something 3 sizes too small looking like mashed potatoes shoved in a tube sock.

You honestly don't care if we win or lose. You are just happy to be there. You could be just fine being lovable losers. Well the rest of us are not wired that way. We want the absolute best for our team and our university. We want to win. Right now it appears that the man heading things up is not getting the most out of our program. He is holding it back. He has grown lazy and complacent. He could really give two craps about the fans. He honestly believes that we're there for him not that he's there for us. You think I'm wrong? Then he wouldn't be shutting the offense down in the 2nd quarters sitting on 10 point leads for 2+ hours every Saturday. He'd put on a show and make sure that we not only won the game, but put on a show for the fans. His other job is to make the program attractive to the outsider and to draw more eyes. He hasn't done that. He's done the exact opposite. He's done the unforgivable of alienating his core fans and created a product that no one linked to Marshall would have the most remote interest in watching.

I don't care if you are a zealot, an average fan, or a hater. You can not sit there and not realize that we have major problems. Somewhere something is broken. I have been going to games since 2000 (My first ever game was 2000 Buffalo). I cannot remember a crowd as bad as yesterday. Not ever. Even during the Snyder years we had decent enough crowds that still held out hope. Somehow Hamrick and Holliday have taken any hope away.

See the difference between Mark and Doc is Mark was just a bad coach. He wanted desperately to be good. He just didn't have the ability. Doc has shown that he has the ability to have this team at the top. Now we have him admitting that he is doing ball control out of design. He said it back in 2015, Cramsey last year came out and said the goal was to run under so many plays (can't remember the number it was 60-70), and then you have Doc a few weeks back saying he was doing this in order to protect the defense and then gave 2012 as an example. Well Doc you forgot about 2013 and 2014 where had one of the best offenses in the country along with a good to even great at times defense.

I really am tired of being told I should just temper my expectations. You know who says that stuff. Losers. Lazy losers that have just accepted their lot in life and have no desire to do the hard things in order to better their situations. They're just victims of a system that won't allow them to improve past where they are. Forget all that crap. Boo hoo. Woe as me. Drop down to FCS and stop asking me for money if that is going to be our mentality going forward.

There is zero passion for winning in that Shewey Building. If there was they wouldn't be making excuses. And yes I know Mr. Goebble left Marshall around six months ago, but Hamrick said as much in a memo to the fans a season or two ago. On top of that Goebbel worked for Marshall for a pretty long time. His opinion has been shaped and molded by an environment he worked in.

Everyone in that athletic department should be absolutely disgusted that they got dominated by Charlotte not once, but twice in the last four years.

 

[Aaron Perkins]

Ok?

 

[raleighherdfan]

I attended the Marshall hall of fame induction this year to see a friend receive this honor. It was the first one I’ve attended. The event was embarrassing to say the least. The food was little snacks on plastic trays they projector didn’t work for what was a less than exciting collage of pictures. I can tell all of you that neither Holiday or Hamrick attended the induction but Coach Bob Pruitt was there. That left a big impression on all who attended.

It's understandable why this was a "Busch League" type event. Marshall didn't want to promote anymore "freeloading" by former Marshall athletes. Right @5150 ??

 

[5150]

It's understandable why this was a "Busch League" type event. Marshall didn't want to promote anymore "freeloading" by former Marshall athletes. Right @5150 ??

The longer everyone complains the more it just sounds like a bunch of ego cry babies who didn't get their butts kissed enough. As we were all reminded this group "put Marshall football on the map"!

 

[Herd1972]

I have been a season ticket holder for football and basketball, through thick and thin, good and bad coaching since 1976. I have questioned our play calling this year and in previous years Doc has been our coach. He certainly does appear to be much more conservative than our previous head coaches.
Watching this year's pre season practices, I truly believed Alex Thomson could be our starting quarteback. He seemed to have the stronger arm and more accurate with his passes. He certainly had the ability to hit receivers in stride for both long and intermediate range passes. Isaiah struggles with accuracy and certainly has not demonstrated the ability to hit receivers in stride on long passes.
I have wondered, several times this season, why Doc did not give Alex an opportunity when Isaiah has struggled in games. Count me as being slow in figuring things out. Doc does not share a great deal of information about players' circumstances. My guess is that Alex has reinjured his shoulder.
Our only other options would be Freshmen, not counting Jackson White (a junior in eligibility that apparently will graduate in May). When Doc says "Isaiah gives us the best chance at winning", he is correct. Play calling, for us, is dictated by the aforementioned difficulties. Hopefully Isaiah can improve his accuracy. If not, I can see a red shirt freshman leading our team next year. I truly believe we are not informed of the issues our football team faces. In some ways, I can respect Doc for sticking to his convictions about player privacy. In other ways, I can't see a problem with providing fans with non-specific player information to help all of us understand his decision making!

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

If any coach stays at school long enough there’s a good chance they’ll become the all time wins leader.

Yep.

I am 48. I offer my services as head coach for the next 30 years at $250k a year. In exchange, I promise to be Marshall's all time winngingest coach when I retire at 78.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

You are a fan, as is Raoul I guess. But definitely nothing more than a casual fan.

You foot the bill, including opportunity costs, and I will be at every home game from now til the end of my days on Earth.

Otherwise, I will make a game every now and then...although there would be a few more now and thens if I wanted to support mediocrity.

Don't be too mad though...I didn't ditch MU for any UofL, IU, or UK games this year. They all suck too. Although I was really tempted to see Ohio State at Indiana....

 

[5150]

I have been a season ticket holder for football and basketball, through thick and thin, good and bad coaching since 1976. I have questioned our play calling this year and in previous years Doc has been our coach. He certainly does appear to be much more conservative than our previous head coaches.
Watching this year's pre season practices, I truly believed Alex Thomson could be our starting quarteback. He seemed to have the stronger arm and more accurate with his passes. He certainly had the ability to hit receivers in stride for both long and intermediate range passes. Isaiah struggles with accuracy and certainly has not demonstrated the ability to hit receivers in stride on long passes.
I have wondered, several times this season, why Doc did not give Alex an opportunity when Isaiah has struggled in games. Count me as being slow in figuring things out. Doc does not share a great deal of information about players' circumstances. My guess is that Alex has reinjured his shoulder.
Our only other options would be Freshmen, not counting Jackson White (a junior in eligibility that apparently will graduate in May). When Doc says "Isaiah gives us the best chance at winning", he is correct. Play calling, for us, is dictated by the aforementioned difficulties. Hopefully Isaiah can improve his accuracy. If not, I can see a red shirt freshman leading our team next year. I truly believe we are not informed of the issues our football team faces. In some ways, I can respect Doc for sticking to his convictions about player privacy. In other ways, I can't see a problem with providing fans with non-specific player information to help all of us understand his decision making!

Honestly, trying to be objective, one of Doc's biggest problems is communication. He does not get out and sell the program well

 

[mubaseballking]

Why are the moderators commenting on posts and arguing with posters again?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I attended the Marshall hall of fame induction this year to see a friend receive this honor. It was the first one I’ve attended. The event was embarrassing to say the least. The food was little snacks on plastic trays they projector didn’t work for what was a less than exciting collage of pictures. I can tell all of you that neither Holiday or Hamrick attended the induction but Coach Bob Pruitt was there. That left a big impression on all who attended.

Why doesn’t this shock me. Marshall like to pretend it’s big time but most in charge at the school think more highly of themselves than the school they represent.
Pretty bush league - not a shocker.

 

[The Real SamC]

And this is exactly the attitude that has let a respected program turn mediocre.

MU became “mediocre”, actually much worse than that, when The Liar, KO Marcum ran off BP and installed his stooge in his place. MH and DH trying to rebuild what The Liar and his stooges destroyed.

...the university needs to be committed to striving for excellence on the field.

Another meaningless quote from DD’s Big Book Of Coach Speak. Great. I will tell Doc and Mike next time I see them that the secret is to “strive for excellence”.

John (sic) doesn't lose games because, as the administration would like to believe, he has all these disadvantages. It's actually the opposite, he wins games because he has been given many advantages.

Ah, this again. The anti-Doc, CUSA hater’s go-to piece of foolishness. “Marshall has all these ‘advantages’”.

None of which anyone can name. We have a good fan base, as nice as any at the level, an IPF, and an adequate stadium. That is it. When challenged the supposed “advantages” the child like CUSA haters think exist is that they think MU is just “supposed” to win, mostly based on what happened relative to the lowly MAC and in I-AA 20 years ago (when MU did actually have huge advantages over the other programs).

 

[Marine03]

MU became “mediocre”, actually much worse than that, when The Liar, KO Marcum ran off BP and installed his stooge in his place. MH and DH trying to rebuild what The Liar and his stooges destroyed.



Another meaningless quote from DD’s Big Book Of Coach Speak. Great. I will tell Doc and Mike next time I see them that the secret is to “strive for excellence”.



Ah, this again. The anti-Doc, CUSA hater’s go-to piece of foolishness. “Marshall has all these ‘advantages’”.

None of which anyone can name. We have a good fan base, as nice as any at the level, an IPF, and an adequate stadium. That is it. When challenged the supposed “advantages” the child like CUSA haters think exist is that they think MU is just “supposed” to win, mostly based on what happened relative to the lowly MAC and in I-AA 20 years ago (when MU did actually have huge advantages over the other programs).

It’s been 10 years, stop with the trying to rebuild shit.

 

[mlblack16.]

MU became “mediocre”, actually much worse than that, when The Liar, KO Marcum ran off BP and installed his stooge in his place. MH and DH trying to rebuild what The Liar and his stooges destroyed.



Another meaningless quote from DD’s Big Book Of Coach Speak. Great. I will tell Doc and Mike next time I see them that the secret is to “strive for excellence”.



Ah, this again. The anti-Doc, CUSA hater’s go-to piece of foolishness. “Marshall has all these ‘advantages’”.

None of which anyone can name. We have a good fan base, as nice as any at the level, an IPF, and an adequate stadium. That is it. When challenged the supposed “advantages” the child like CUSA haters think exist is that they think MU is just “supposed” to win, mostly based on what happened relative to the lowly MAC and in I-AA 20 years ago (when MU did actually have huge advantages over the other programs).

Go become a fan of a school like Rice or New Mexico State where none of the fanbase cares if they win or lose.

There are too many real fans of Marshall Football to sit back and let you contribute to that mentality.