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The current state of Marshall Basketball

BleedsGreen33

BleedsGreen33

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Jan 25, 2010
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Marshall is currently 4-9. We have no lost to our last nine D-IA opponents. Our four wins have come against Jacksonville State who is currently 7-7 out of the OVC, Savannah St who is 3-9 out of the MEAC, WV Tech an NAIA team, and King who is a D-II team.

It's a sad state of affairs for Marshall basketball. I am frustrated with it but I can't even begin to feel the level of frustration those of you that actually remember the days when we had good basketball must feel.

I just have never felt like basketball is taken all that seriously by the administration. At least nowhere near the level of football. 64 teams get invited to the NCAA Tournament and we haven't been since the late 80's. It makes zero sense.

This post was edited on 12/30 9:46 PM by BleedsGreen33
 
Football got good, we fired our coach, hired a septegenarian high school basketball coach and paid him less than we paid the last guy. I'd say the writing on the wall is pretty obvious.
 
We must be patient while we build for the future. Sort of like sitting at Fairfield during the years after the crash. It will get much better. We weren't going to a tournament this year anyway. At least they are trying, and not fighting and bickering over every little thing. They will be respectable -- if not downright good -- by the end of next year.
 
Originally posted by FluffyZuppy:
WV State is and has been an NCAA D-II program for 2 decades. But still... I see your point.
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My bad we played Tech not State
 
Originally posted by Tim Hensley:
We must be patient while we build for the future. Sort of like sitting at Fairfield during the years after the crash. It will get much better. We weren't going to a tournament this year anyway. At least they are trying, and not fighting and bickering over every little thing. They will be respectable -- if not downright good -- by the end of next year.
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How many times and coaches do we have this conversation? I have yet to be impressed with Dan's recruiting. I don't know what he saw in the Serbs.

I'll give him this. The team fights from start to finish but that's about it.
 
Thing that always gets me "patients as we build for the future"

Would be damned nice if we built a program that reloaded vs waited on the "future".
 
Tonight was pretty hard to watch. Akron shot some threes when there was no one within fifteen feet of them. Defense shows some flashes of being OK and then they lay down for a few plays. I didn't see the final rebounding numbers, but it could not have been good.
 
I know it is frustrating to watch the Herd struggle so badly. However, we really don't have another option right now. I think it is important moving forward that the fan base stay behind DD, I know some of you will disagree with me but I always felt that Greg White was doing a solid job here and got frustrated by the criticism and left us. Of course then came Jirsa which set us back a few years. Then Donnie shows up and things start to get better and then he leaves. At first I thought that TH would work out but the wheels fell off last year and change was needed. DD just showed up and inherited a MESS. He did the right thing by letting go some folks who were causing trouble. Give it time. He can coach and train what we have. He knows what he wants give him a chance.
 
I will not judge Dan Dantoni and his ability to coach at this level based on this year.. Herrion left him a dumpster fire.. I'm honestly SHOCKED at how competitive we've been in nearly all of our losses.. I figured we'd be getting ran out of the gym every single night.
 
Originally posted by BleedsGreen33:

How many times and coaches do we have this conversation? I have yet to be impressed with Dan's recruiting. I don't know what he saw in the Serbs.

I'll give him this. The team fights from start to finish but that's about it.


What coach did this year was not recruiting. It was cobbling together a team from the ruins left behind. At least give the guy a full recruiting cycle before letting us know if you're impressed or not.
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The current state of Marshall Basketball is exactly what should have been expected. The program was in shambles. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither will The Herd basketball team be. If you are not willing to invest some time and patience in Coach Dantoni, then you probably better not bother to watch for awhile. If you thought he had a magic wand, I can assure you he does not. What he does have is great knowledge of the game, good coaching ability, love for our university, and desire to build a team of players who not only can play the game, but can conduct themselves responsibly.
Sitting around and lamenting lack of success at this point is a waste of energy. I would be shocked if Coach does not give us a winner down the road. And, for the record, I am from the era when basketball was king at Marshall. I would love to see a return to greatness, but it's going to be awhile.
 
A coaching staff of John Wooden, Phil Jackson and Dean Smith would be lucky to win double digit games with this team.

This is also a good example of why you dont wait for months to make a coaching hire. DD had to assemble a staff and find a couple of kids to fill the roster in short order. Hopefully, with a full offseason to recruit he can bring in 2-4 capable contributors for next year either from high school or junior college.

The good news is, in basketball a team is only 2-3 good players from being respectable. It's not like football where you need 20+ guys to turn things around.
 
Some of the MU followers want to be critical of DD and our overall basketball program..........but it was TH and his staff who recruited several of the ones that DD was left with.....DD just had to pick up the pieces and run with it. Overall IMO I think the
program is headed in the right direction. This season CANNOT be judged by wins and losses.
~
 
Originally posted by BleedsGreen33:
Marshall is currently 4-9. We have no lost to our last nine D-IA opponents. Our four wins have come against Jacksonville State who is currently 7-7 out of the OVC, Savannah St who is 3-9 out of the MEAC, WV Tech an NAIA team, and King who is a D-II team.

It's a sad state of affairs for Marshall basketball. I am frustrated with it but I can't even begin to feel the level of frustration those of you that actually remember the days when we had good basketball must feel.

I just have never felt like basketball is taken all that seriously by the administration. At least nowhere near the level of football. 64 teams get invited to the NCAA Tournament and we haven't been since the late 80's. It makes zero sense.

This post was edited on 12/30 9:46 PM by BleedsGreen33
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Presently pretty discouraged. But I realize that it is going to take some time to get the players that DD wants in here. BTW I have been watching games from the 83-85 seasons during Christmas break. It was unbelievable the crowds that we had back in those days.
 
I didn't blame this on Dan. This is a culmination 10-20 years of not really caring about basketball. At least not to the same level of dedication to football.

I know Dan was handed a pile of hammered dog **** and I am going to give him 3 years before I make a judgement on him.

However it doesn't change the fact this program has been largely neglected. Even Dan came in and started pointing out areas we are 10-15 years behind on.

I want to watch the tournament someday and see my team on the screen.
 
The key for Dan is if he can get good players. The team plays hard but does not have D1 talent.
I was concerned about hiring Dan, but I will withhold judgement until he gets some recruiting under his belt.
 
This year is a dumpster fire. Not Dan's fault, Herion left nothing to work with.

This is a hard job. No current recruit has any memory of a Marshall team that has been really any good. WV continues to bleed population and what few good in-state prospects are going elsewise. The spread out nature of CUSA, the lack of funds for charter planes, and the colapse of HTS as a legit airport means crazy bus rides either for the whole trip, or to CRW or even CMH and then splitting up onto multiple flights. In an era where many teams are on TV for every game, we might get 4 to 6 games. The arena has more empties than fulls, every night.

That is why I think the whole recruit eastern Europe plan is worth a shot. Nothing else has worked. Some guys are just happy to be in this country and get a shot.

BTW, our only two D-I victories are currently 3-9 and 7-7. We may not win another game this year.
 
Bleeds, et al,

I want to see my team in a tournament LIVE and IN PERSON -- not on a screen. Some of the best times I've had were when we were in Ashville, Greensboro or the NIT/NCAA. To everyone, Danny can't wave a magic wand or have Peter Pan come flittering in and make things better. This is going to take some time. Herrion poured gasoline on a dumpster fire that had been smouldering for years. And if these Serbs aren't good before they leave, I'll buy everyone on this site a round at Fat Patty's! Just set back, observe, and be content with slow progress. I think we'll see a real difference towards the end of next season.
 
Originally posted by Tim Hensley:
Bleeds, et al,

I want to see my team in a tournament LIVE and IN PERSON -- not on a screen. Some of the best times I've had were when we were in Ashville, Greensboro or the NIT/NCAA. To everyone, Danny can't wave a magic wand or have Peter Pan come flittering in and make things better. This is going to take some time. Herrion poured gasoline on a dumpster fire that had been smouldering for years. And if these Serbs aren't good before they leave, I'll buy everyone on this site a round at Fat Patty's! Just set back, observe, and be content with slow progress. I think we'll see a real difference towards the end of next season.
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Tim, I agree. Nothing like those SC tournaments back in Ashville. Those were fun times.
 
I don't blame Dan at all for this. These players have absolutely no talent whatsoever. I understand it's up to the coach to bring out the best of every player, but Dan took over an absolute mess. He knows how to coach basketball, his system will work. We don't even have a true point guard on this team, something essential for how Dan wants to play. This team won't be too fun to watch for a little while, but trust me, things will have to be rough before they get better. If you didn't expect that before the season, then you had extremely unrealistic expectations.
 
The program is being rebuilt, and I don't like the "bad mouthing" and "insults" from some of the posters about the situation.
That doesn't help. It just shows where you come from.
 
I don't think the great Huggins or any coach for that matter could win with the talent on this team. You realize that one of the best players in this team was a walkon for the last coach. They lost one of the best players to injury and may lose their best player if the injury was bad enough. From the bad team we had last year only one starter that remained. ( like I said, me may be gone). Sane, kambola, were bad and the Serbs are no where good. Like I saw posted, this team could not win a rec league at the ymca.
 
I think it is silly to be banging on Danny and the team. It was stated from the very start when Danny was hired that little to nothing could be won this year. Less than 10 was a prominent projection. Seems those who watch are saying the guys are playing hard. Improvement would be nice so there is a bit of disappointment there. NSD is 35 or so days away. Hopefully chatter regarding it will limit the bball bashing. Bleeds, get back to analyzing the commits.
 
I've said before, this will take at least 3-4 years. Hamrick knows that. This was a high risk/reward hire. I question whether this staff can recruit the kids we need to be successful.
 
In my opinion, many of the problems can be attributed to the lack of longevity by a coach after the "glory" days of Hucks Herd. In order to get the program where we all want it to be, there HAS to be a coach that will not only want to be here and want to stay here, but will be given the chance by administration. With that being said, there has to be some much needed attention given to the basketball program. They can not give Dantoni 2 or 3 years to turn the mess around and expect miracles. The basketball program did not get into the mess it is in today overnight and it can't be corrected overnight. If the administration, whoever it may be insists on giving up on a coach after 2 or 3 years because they couldn't turn it around quick enough, then the dumpster fire will only spread. This is going to take the athletic department and administration working together or we can forget any hopes of returning to the "glory days".
 
I think we have to give them a chance to recruit first. They haven't had that. Danny had to scramble to get what we have. Again and again and again, I say these kids will be decent before they are done.
 
Patience my herd friends. We all remember wanting to fire Doc early on. Give coach D time to get some players here. He came in with a high school roster basically
 
I was in college in the 70's, so I recall the Huck years, then White, Donovan, etc., and truthfully the "good old days" weren't very much better, aside from the occasional one-off decent season and beating WVU a couple times in Huntington. Never any real consistency in winning on the hardwood, and always being in a "one bid league" hasn't helped matters any. Tough to recruit decent talent into that kind of environment.

The current state of Herd BB is absolutely woeful, to be sure, but the team has never even won an NCAA tournament game in its history, and being totally objective, I'm not convinced that the MU administration can afford to try and be really competitive in both MBB and football. Not too many schools are, especially in the G5-type conferences that are really trying to keep up with the "big boy" conferences in football. I actually think it's easier for the smaller schools (think Butler, Gonzaga, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, etc.) to support worthy BB programs by focusing their efforts and resources on BB and just passing on D-1 football.

Marshall really isn't all that unique, in the sense of being able to consistently succeed when so many similar (peer) schools also struggle. While they are admittedly on a different level, that is one area where WVU can justly be proud. Year-in, year-out, they manage to field very competitive teams in both sports. I'm not sure why, but that is harder to do than it seems like it should be. I hope I'm wrong, and DD works miracles, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Anyway, let's enjoy the Boca Bowl win (and hope that Boise's win over Arizona doesn't completely overshadow what Marshall accomplished as the "best G-5 team" with national perception). Happy New Year.
 
DD hasn't proved he can coach his way out of a wet paper bag. All people wanted is a dantoni even if it was a 30 year high school coach. All this teaching he is doing...where the hell is it?
 
The program is being rebuilt, and I don't like the "bad mouthing" and "insults" from some of the posters about the situation.
That doesn't help. It just shows where you come from.
 
Originally posted by SquireJack:
I'm not convinced that the MU administration can afford to try and be really competitive in both MBB and football. Not too many schools are, especially in the G5-type conferences that are really trying to keep up with the "big boy" conferences in football. I actually think it's easier for the smaller schools (think Butler, Gonzaga, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, etc.) to support worthy BB programs by focusing their efforts and resources on BB and just passing on D-1 football.
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Marshall needs to take a lesson from WVU on this one. The Mountaineers throw millions toward the multi-sport pipe-dream, and have wound up with two middling programs and effectively zero national notoriety to show for it. The Big East football run in the mid-2000s and their once-in-a-half-century visit to the Final Four back in 2010 tainted the water in Morgantown a bit, poisoning the locals' minds with fantasies of becoming the next Florida or Ohio State. So they made big moves and tried to posture themselves for the "big time," and now...bleh. They're the Lexmark All-in-One Printer of the Big XII: generally functional for multiple purposes, but never remarkable in any single facet.

If Marshall really thinks multi-sport is the way to go, they need only look north. WVU has more resources and a larger following, and still couldn't (and never will) make it happen. If the goal is to be great, Marshall would be well-served to focus on a single sport.
 
I'm proud of our basketball team and the kids that are out there representing our University.

They play their butts off and keep their noses clean. That's all you can ask for.
 
Originally posted by mu21503:
DD hasn't proved he can coach his way out of a wet paper bag. All people wanted is a dantoni even if it was a 30 year high school coach. All this teaching he is doing...where the hell is it?
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This is no slam to the current players but he has to have the corrrect players to fit his system. Lets face it this team does not have a true penetrating type of guard or very many good shooters. The team seems to try to run plays but without the players that he needs you will probably continue to see the same results.
 
I compare DD's first year to Doc's first year. Had to scramble around to find Assistant Coaches and someone to fill the roster. Got rid of some players that were not going to be on the same page and is now in the process of changing the culture of the program. Unfortunately, DD is in a little worse situation as he is going to be forced to either pull the scholarships of some underclassmen or put up with mediocre improvement for the next few years. We only lose a few seniors this year and have already gotten commitments and players sitting out this year to fill the roster for next year. I have faith that he will get there, but we just have to remain patient and continue supporting him.
 
you cant blame the next two years on DD. He was left with a roster in shambles, and the ones that had talent were all head cases, which we weren't winning with anyway. The first class of a new coach is usually a wash due to limited time to recruit. I see the PG serb actually being good in a few years, but the big serb....ehhh..That PG from VMI (transfer) could take the PG reins next year at this time.

I like his system, I like that the team fights hard (minus the nevada game), but you're only as good of a coach as the players you have on the roster. It's going to take at least 3yrs to be middle of the CUSA pack IMO. If in 4yrs we are still middle of the pack or worse, then we know this lil experiment hasn't worked.

For the past 30yrs, we have always gone cheap on our hoops program. I believe our administrators believe we can really only be good in one sport and they have chosen football (i would've too) to allocate most of our resources too. Until we/they actually give a hoot about hoops, expect mediocrity at best.

I'm just glad we're really good in football again.
 
Originally posted by HerdMBA:
Originally posted by BleedsGreen33:

How many times and coaches do we have this conversation? I have yet to be impressed with Dan's recruiting. I don't know what he saw in the Serbs.

I'll give him this. The team fights from start to finish but that's about it.


What coach did this year was not recruiting. It was cobbling together a team from the ruins left behind. At least give the guy a full recruiting cycle before letting us know if you're impressed or not.
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No we must win now. Anything less is unacceptable.

Maybe Mike's advice to Dan prior to the season was spot on when he said "drink...a lot."
 
Shundaroni is absolutely correct except a couple small facts.

WVU has 3 BCS bowl trophies from our football run
WVU has a Final Four banner hanging in the rafters and is currently a top 20 basketball team right now.

That small success also landed WVU in a P5 conference the Big12

So please tell us all again how Marshall should do it by...what was it you so elegantly stated?? Looking north??
 
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