Great road win! It’s OK - here is your opportunity to post a supportive comment for the team you supposedly love........
“Safe Space” zone for Sam & the rest of the haters...
- Thread starter W-S HerdFan
- Start date
Dude, you’re becoming a worse version of that jackass. Just stop.
I find the self righteous posts very entertaining and sad at the same time.
Thanks for the feedback guys, that was an idea that needed to age for a couple of minutes and then aborted to go fetch another beer.
On the game: Too many heroes tonight!
Random thoughts:
Kinsey is just starting to show some of his potential! Just so level headed & beyond his years in terms of talent. Jon was Jon; CJ had one of his best games this season. Rondale is always a + for us whenever he is on the floor. Byers had some good minutes - we really need his length and around the basket skills to give us a boost. George played well & a good idea to let him start. He has some athleticism we can’t find anywhere else at his position. Overall: the senior calm & leadership cannot be overstated in these close games! You can just see it. Gonna miss those 3 next season fo sho. Great achievement for Elmore grabbing the all-time CUSA scoring record. 2 home games to look forward to!
For everyone having a conniption about the conference record: IF we hold serve at home, reg season conf record will be 11-7....one win less than the magic season of ‘17-18....
On the game: Too many heroes tonight!
Random thoughts:
Kinsey is just starting to show some of his potential! Just so level headed & beyond his years in terms of talent. Jon was Jon; CJ had one of his best games this season. Rondale is always a + for us whenever he is on the floor. Byers had some good minutes - we really need his length and around the basket skills to give us a boost. George played well & a good idea to let him start. He has some athleticism we can’t find anywhere else at his position. Overall: the senior calm & leadership cannot be overstated in these close games! You can just see it. Gonna miss those 3 next season fo sho. Great achievement for Elmore grabbing the all-time CUSA scoring record. 2 home games to look forward to!
For everyone having a conniption about the conference record: IF we hold serve at home, reg season conf record will be 11-7....one win less than the magic season of ‘17-18....
Absolutely great second half. Keep it up
And we can make a run
And we can make a run
429 - absolutely ! 2 more things
Much better job rebounding, with the caveat that UNT is shortest team in CUSA
Foul shots!
You confuse me. I thought the regular season was meaningless. All that matters is getting hot in the conference tournament and who knows?
This was a regular season game.
Honestly Sean I’ll disagree with you a little on this. I know WS can be a little over the top. But we have a group on Herdnation, on both the free and pay side that never say anything when we win other than still criticizing because we didn’t do X well enough and the game shouldn’t have been close etc., but they will all start large diatribes when we lose.
Sam being the leader on the free board that constantly disparages our basketball team. So I actually don’t mind WS throwing some jabs their way.
Trust me I’m not a rainbows and glitter guy with this season. I hate the fact we got embarrassed by some of our OOC opponents plus lost by 50 to Southern Miss and got blown out in a couple of other conference games. Yes so far this season has had a lot of disappointment. But we are still alive and we can actually still win the CUSA tournament. So before I say it’s a total disappointment I would like to see how the season plays out. In my opinion if we win the CUSA tournament then that cancels a lot, not all, but most of the negatives about this season.
But I’m also not going to act like what Dan has accomplished here hasn’t been very good or that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, or his recruiting sucks and our players are no good. We went on the road yesterday and dominated the second half to win a game against a team that beat us by 27 on that floor a month ago.
So I know Sam and his followers will continue to trash the program and the coach whether he wins or not and so I don’t care if WS throws a bit back at them.
With all respect, I do not "trash" the program or the coach. I, and whatever "followers" I have simply want to discuss MU basketball with reality and common sense. Season long.
So this happens and we want to talk about it. The response we get is "One time we finished 4th in the regular season and won the conference tournament, you are NEGATIVE."
So then that happens and we want to talk about it. The response? Exactly the same.
So then another thing happens and we want to talk about it. The response? Exactly the same (unless the team wins, in which case we have "turned a corner", which means CUSA much have more corners than a hexadecagon.)
But then if something else happens... Negative to discuss in any way anything this team does.
So then why post about basketball AT ALL? Why go to the games? Why watch on TV? Why even check the scores? Why?
Apparently they do not matter, there is nothing to be learned from them, and they are unworthy of discussion, win or lose.
So, just tune in to the conference tournament and then discuss the results.
Or maybe that is too much, because we might win the tournament next year, so that would be "negative".
So this happens and we want to talk about it. The response we get is "One time we finished 4th in the regular season and won the conference tournament, you are NEGATIVE."
So then that happens and we want to talk about it. The response? Exactly the same.
So then another thing happens and we want to talk about it. The response? Exactly the same (unless the team wins, in which case we have "turned a corner", which means CUSA much have more corners than a hexadecagon.)
But then if something else happens... Negative to discuss in any way anything this team does.
So then why post about basketball AT ALL? Why go to the games? Why watch on TV? Why even check the scores? Why?
Apparently they do not matter, there is nothing to be learned from them, and they are unworthy of discussion, win or lose.
So, just tune in to the conference tournament and then discuss the results.
Or maybe that is too much, because we might win the tournament next year, so that would be "negative".
Your problem, Sam, is that you profess to support the program. But in every case, all you do is claim to be a "realist", with all of the negative connotations that attach to that type of person. So, you are NEVER effusive with any praise (show me a previous post where you gushed enthusiasm for Dan & Co.) for the HERD b-ballers. Like Cali stated, when we lose, the "realist" points out what he knew all along to be truth as he knows it and why can't the rest of us just bow down to the great & powerful Oz? When you pull back the curtain, you realize that the realists have quite a few hang-ups, among them the inability to join in when the good things happen, draft off of that a little & feel the joy that comes with winning! Was I nervous yesterday watching the HERD go down to the wire and gut out a tough (because they usually are) road win? You bet. Was I sitting there thinking "I should expect us to lose, realistically? HELL no I was not!
Go HERD !!! (another thing you never type on here)
Go HERD !!! (another thing you never type on here)
Sorry, but there is never a negative to realism.
In the real world, in any endeavor 99.9% of workers/leaders WANT to be a success and they totally believe that whatever they are doing is 100% the right thing to do to get that done. And, in any field, from politics, to teaching a 5th grader math, to paving a road, to arguing a case in court, to whatever, it is NOT "negative" to express an OPINION about the person doing the thing and whether or not you think a different approach is needed.
Your problem, W-S, is that the unique system of college basketball means that THEORETICALLY, any team might win its conference tournament, something that 95% or so of teams get to participate in. Theoretically anybody might. And you think that precludes thought about the program any week but one, all year, and that anybody who disagrees is "negative". On this board, or any other board of any other team that has grossly underachieved this year, including our Spamite friends; and in fact any board of any basketball team. The University of Maine is currently 5-25. Theoretically, it could win its tournament.
In the real world, in any endeavor 99.9% of workers/leaders WANT to be a success and they totally believe that whatever they are doing is 100% the right thing to do to get that done. And, in any field, from politics, to teaching a 5th grader math, to paving a road, to arguing a case in court, to whatever, it is NOT "negative" to express an OPINION about the person doing the thing and whether or not you think a different approach is needed.
Your problem, W-S, is that the unique system of college basketball means that THEORETICALLY, any team might win its conference tournament, something that 95% or so of teams get to participate in. Theoretically anybody might. And you think that precludes thought about the program any week but one, all year, and that anybody who disagrees is "negative". On this board, or any other board of any other team that has grossly underachieved this year, including our Spamite friends; and in fact any board of any basketball team. The University of Maine is currently 5-25. Theoretically, it could win its tournament.
W-S HerdFan.....I recall the Herd's loss to UNT earlier [27 points]---the announcer said...."they are one of the smallest teams in American, but they usually out rebound their opponents." I was impressed with The Herd's defense against the Mean Green Sunday.
HerdZilla22 in charlotte
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caliherd...my exact sentiments.....I have met W-S Herd Fan in person...he's a good guy and LOVES & Follows The HERD.......
HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
….from the Touchdown Jesus thread....couldn't resist!
Sam, you are as dense as a slab of stone. Even you know that you can't give an incomplete after 5 seasons? I could do a poll, but why pile on? A letter grade is in order after the body of work performed thus far. You do know what we started with in '14, correct? And you also know that DD has won more games each year in the 1st 4 seasons. And last year we won the tourney, eclipsed 25 wins and notched the program's 1st ever NCAA win. No one but you would say the juries still out. I would grade Dan at A- so far, the - only because we have struggled some this year. If you have to knock back a shot of milk of magnesia, whatever it takes, what is your letter grade for the Herd b-ball program since 2014-15?
Sam, you are as dense as a slab of stone. Even you know that you can't give an incomplete after 5 seasons? I could do a poll, but why pile on? A letter grade is in order after the body of work performed thus far. You do know what we started with in '14, correct? And you also know that DD has won more games each year in the 1st 4 seasons. And last year we won the tourney, eclipsed 25 wins and notched the program's 1st ever NCAA win. No one but you would say the juries still out. I would grade Dan at A- so far, the - only because we have struggled some this year. If you have to knock back a shot of milk of magnesia, whatever it takes, what is your letter grade for the Herd b-ball program since 2014-15?
Now we have to really string together consecutive wins in order to make the field. Its not impossible by any means, but I think what Sam is saying is that it shouldn't have come down to this to begin with, given the hype the team had pre-season.
We lost 1 player and returned the all time leading CUSA scorer as well as basically the entire team in a system that has been here for a few years.
Combine that with not losses, but blowout losses to teams everyone (including me) thought we could at least compete with.
Also, the lack of changes to the game plans and schemes, we found ourselves in a spot this team certainly should have made an effort to avoid...being down double digits early in a game and having to come back.
That last part really gets to me because it is really becoming the norm for this team which caused us to have a losing streak.
I think thats why he says the jury is out.
Actually, we're in just about the same position this year as we were last year. We could have gone 25-6 this year, undefeated in OOC, lost 6 games in conference, landed in the same pod, and still have to win the tournament. Had to win the tournament last year, have to win it this year to go dancing. Pod schedule won't help anybody. No 2nd team from C-usa getting to dance. Just got to win these next 2 for mo and then 4 in Frisco.
You seem to be very fascinated with what I think. And BTW, as I stated in the "Touchdown Jesus" thread, I was not going to let football hater iamherdman ruin that great announcement; likewise I was not going to let you ruin it by yet another OT polly anna basketball missive.
Anyway, since you asked.
14-15 - Pass. This was a Pass-Fail class. DD inherited a steaming pile and simply needed to tread water. He did so.
15-16 - B - . Still not his recruits, but the team improved late and was better than its record at the end.
16-17 - C + . MU had returned, just barely, to respectiability, but one game over .500 in league, and thus an extra round in the tournament, four games in four nights, was bad coaching. No reason this team should not have earned a bye with that talent.
17-18 - A - . DD was heading for a B -, but (since this is a school analogy) aced the final exam with a 100% and pulled up his grade. The fact that he had to from what the regular season 4th place finish team, which clearly really was the 4th best in the league, cuts it to an A - .
18-19 - (if the team actually wins out, and remember the failure of the regular season means four games in four days, not three like last year, it comes in as a B + for similar reasons as discussed above)
(Any other result, D - . And only because I do not like to give Fs to any student that tries) Assreaming blow outs, not just in the three step up games versus major conference teams, but to an Ohio team that will finish .500 or so, and a FIFTY POINT BEATDOWN to a mediocre USM team as a part of SEVEN conference losses and being 2-3 in games versus similar conference level teams is an awful result. You are the what if man, not me, but really if DD didn't have last year to rest on, most would be calling for his scalp right about now. This season, baring what would be a far larger miracle than last, is a total flop.
So, overall. I stand by incomplete. Five years, maybe 3 with a majority of his own guys, makes it hard to judge a coach. Now, in 22 or 23, which is about what I think, Lord willing, DD will devote to this project, we are at one NCAA appearance, one NCAA win, zero NITs, zero regular season conference titles, two top four in league regular seasons, zero (or one, if you count the AAC's Wichita State, whatever) wins versus step up teams, which is where we are right now, then that is a C -. Which is a better grade than any long term coach (DA and BD do not get a grade, other than WP - withdrew passing) since Huck.
Fair enough. I believe you had posted most of that in a previous thread. Even if we hadn't made TBD last year, who would we get to come to MU at his salary? Not any of note. Even most college students earn their degree w/in 5 years....you can't sit on the fence forever....
Funny thing, in the fall, you'd see these kinds of posts about football and Doc. Poster positions would be flipped.
People seem content MU won in North Texas, despite a horrible start and it took a mid 2nd half surge to close the gap and ultimately win.
If that happened in football this board would be in Defcon mode.
There is a HUGE double standard double standard between football and basketball here.
Our basketball coach is just OK, and there is a whole crew here that want to proclaim him as the next Adolph Rupp. Or better said, have so low an expectation in basketball that just OK is fine with them.
Our football coach is doing a great job, and there is an even larger crew that actually want him fired. Thing is none of them can point to anything, they just think Marshall is supposed to win every game. It is little kid level football analysis. "My team is great."
And, while I am at it, we clearly have the best AD ever, and there even are people who snipe at him.
Our basketball coach is just OK, and there is a whole crew here that want to proclaim him as the next Adolph Rupp. Or better said, have so low an expectation in basketball that just OK is fine with them.
Our football coach is doing a great job, and there is an even larger crew that actually want him fired. Thing is none of them can point to anything, they just think Marshall is supposed to win every game. It is little kid level football analysis. "My team is great."
And, while I am at it, we clearly have the best AD ever, and there even are people who snipe at him.
Oh bulls. First of all very few people on here have called for Docs firing, but feel his tenure has been very mediocre. There had been plenty of statistics shown to you to back up people’s opinions but you ostrich anything that doesn’t say Doc is the second coming of Nick Saban.
Also nobody is claiming D’Antoni is the second coming of any great college basketball coach. Heck other than Herdmeister some of his biggest fans on here have been critical of his coaching this year, me included. But many of us feel he gets a pass this year due to the fact he inherited a dumpster fire and in only 3 seasons he had us in the CUSA championship game. In year 4 he actually won the CUSA tournament. He then won a game in the NCAA tournament for the first time ever in the history of our program.
I know you downplay it because beating a 4 seed Wichita State and getting thumped by WVU in the next round sucks but getting thumped by a 5-6 Va Tech team and the turning around and beating a team who lost their last 6 games in a before Christmas bowl game is a huge accomplishment!!
In Docs 9 seasons he has won 1 CUSA championship. Several of those seasons have occurred after CUSA was gutted to become one of the 3 worst conferences playing in FBS where every year the majority of our conference teams are ranked in the 100s.
We have advantages in football over all of our conference rivals in facilities, fan base, name recognition, with the exception we aren’t in a recruiting hotbed. Remember I’m talking about our peers I’m not comparing us to Ohio State. To contrast that in basketball, our basketball arena sucks we have been mediocre to awful for 40 years, no name recognition, so of course the expectations are higher for football than basketball.
So you think if earlier in the season Marshall football would have got pounded on the road by a conference team that in one month we met that team again, once again on that teams field and they were beating us at the half but we came out in the second half and dominated erasing a big first half deficit and winning the game you think people would be hammering Doc? Give me a break!!
From Sam C:
16-17 - C + . MU had returned, just barely, to respectability, but one game over .500 in league, and thus an extra round in the tournament, four games in four nights, was bad coaching. No reason this team should not have earned a bye with that talent.
I would venture that you are the hardest grader on this board! Even though Herrion (with a herculean effort from Dre' Kane) had also taken the Herd over 4 straight days to the finals in Memphis, which then produced an NIT bid that pales in comparison with the tourney that Coach D'Antoni played in in '66 and '67, this board most likely looked at that season as a successful one.
So now DD takes his 3rd edition of the Thundering Herd to a winning record in the league, guides them through 4 straight games and loses in the title game, (winning record), and the best you can manage is a C+, because he failed to gain the bye? How is winning 3 straight games the result of bad coaching? Your logic is at best inconsistent, and at worst the product of some deep-seated resentment of the HC Danny D'Antoni.
All he has done since his 1st game is put this program on a path to achieve success. And it would be difficult to assert he has not been successful to date.
Don't wish for the Herd to fail so that you can lecture the board on the pitfalls of being emotionally invested in our team! Instead, open yourself up to the possibility that we who love the Herd do so not from logic, but from the heart! And, if you don't get nervous for the guys/gals in crunch time when the game is on the line, then I am not sure you will ever get it.
Go HERD !!!!
16-17 - C + . MU had returned, just barely, to respectability, but one game over .500 in league, and thus an extra round in the tournament, four games in four nights, was bad coaching. No reason this team should not have earned a bye with that talent.
I would venture that you are the hardest grader on this board! Even though Herrion (with a herculean effort from Dre' Kane) had also taken the Herd over 4 straight days to the finals in Memphis, which then produced an NIT bid that pales in comparison with the tourney that Coach D'Antoni played in in '66 and '67, this board most likely looked at that season as a successful one.
So now DD takes his 3rd edition of the Thundering Herd to a winning record in the league, guides them through 4 straight games and loses in the title game, (winning record), and the best you can manage is a C+, because he failed to gain the bye? How is winning 3 straight games the result of bad coaching? Your logic is at best inconsistent, and at worst the product of some deep-seated resentment of the HC Danny D'Antoni.
All he has done since his 1st game is put this program on a path to achieve success. And it would be difficult to assert he has not been successful to date.
Don't wish for the Herd to fail so that you can lecture the board on the pitfalls of being emotionally invested in our team! Instead, open yourself up to the possibility that we who love the Herd do so not from logic, but from the heart! And, if you don't get nervous for the guys/gals in crunch time when the game is on the line, then I am not sure you will ever get it.
Go HERD !!!!
Your entire first paragraph talks about stats...how are MU's basketball stats this season?
Oh wait, we win games...I forgot, thats the measuring tool.
Someone else had us in the title game in year 3 and won it in year 4.
CUSA was also gutted in basketball...as the teams in the AAC seem to be pretty good and ranked...
Would Dan have stood a chance against Memphis back then or Houston now?
So you say we shouldn't celebrate beating someone from a better conference losing 6 in a row (away) in a bowl but should be happy about beating a conference mate (away) who had lost 5 in a row before we won?
Huge accomplishment there...at least in the bowl game we controlled it from start to finish...it took a huge run to beat North Texas.
"1 title in 9 years"...it may resonate the same with Dan as well...but a win in the NCAA tournament will get him a 10 year pass.
At least you answered the problem in your final paragraph.
Basketball HAS been horrible and so any bastion of success is seen with an amplified view.
I wouldn't call the basketball team mediocre but nor would I call the football team that either.
In many respects, they are about the same right now in their points in time under their coaching staffs.
That's bogus. Marshall basketball has played in the last two conference championship games which includes winning it.
When is the last time Marshall football played in the conference championship game? Four years ago? When is the last time Marshall football won the conference? Five years ago?
Already, Marshall basketball is in a far better spot than Marshall football.
Now, what is harder to do - win the worst FBS conference or win a top half basketball conference? On a national scale, Conference USA basketball is better than Conference USA football. It's harder to win C-USA basketball than football. On top of that, Marshall football is given far more resources than Marshall basketball compared to its conference peers.
Over the last four years, Marshall football has finished 5th, 12th, 7th, and 3rd.
Over the last four years, Marshall basketball has finished 11th, 4th, 2nd, and 1st. And after tonight, they will be tied for 3rd in the conference.
Again, Marshall football: 5, 12, 7, 3
Again, Marshall basketball: 11, 4, 2, 1, and 3 after tonight.
Not only does Marshall football have significant advantages to winning than Marshall basketball does compared to C-USA peers, but Marshall basketball is performing far, far better without even taking that stuff into consideration.
Sam, offer still stands. Great win last nite! 5 in dbl figures, held our own on the boards. Just a solid effort all around...listen to your heart for a change!
......no pressure!! ;D)
......no pressure!! ;D)
But to actually respond...
Points in time...in year 5 for Doc and year 5 for Dan...they are about the same.
How many conferences are there in basketball? 32 conferences.
There are 5 in the "Group of 5" because the G5 hardly ever eclipses the P5.
When the field is much more concentrated like football, the margin for error is smaller. Compare this to the saturated field in basketball where you can stand to lose 5 games in a row and still come out on top.
But then again...nobody can seem to figure out what to base themselves on...
Finishing wherever doesn't and shouldn't matter. What matters is conference championships, right? If so, it doesn't matter where MU finishes, even if they may end up around 6th in basketball.
Don't forget, "1 title in 9 years!!" is what everyone says for football but now somehow placing and ranking in finish in CUSA in basketball somehow matters more? Dan has as many titles and title game appearances as Doc.
…………..good point. And they are both 1-1. Doc has been coaching longer (9 seasons vs 5), so I still say Danny's winning ratio has to be higher since he is dividing 1 by 5 while Doc is dividing 1 by 9...naught, naught, carry the naught.... Doc is at 11% "success" and DD is at 20%. It's really apples and boomerangs....For me, Doc has done more than enough to keep his job. Dan has exceeded expectations by a large amount. Also, credit to DD & MH for staying away from the pay-to-pay tournaments in 15-16 and 16-17. Coach was committed to NIT/NCAA or bust, and it worked out.
Duke - my brother says I am always close!! thks
No it’s not a 5 year season comparison, this season isn’t over. In Danny’s 4 seasons Marshall has played in the CUSA tournament championship 2 of the 4 seasons winning 1. In season 5 Marshall can still win the CUSA tournament and go to the NCAA tournament again. They also have the ability to make it to the CUSA finals for a 3rd straight season. Also Danny took over a dumpster fire of a program. Herrions last year at Marshall he was 11-22 overall and a whopping 4-12 in CUSA play.
Doc took over a dumpster fire as well but at least Snyder’s last team went 7-6 and won a bowl game. They were also 4-4 in CUSA.
Football at Marshall has far more resources to win the conference regularly than basketball. Frankly, football has underachieved for quite some time at Marshall. I don't know what that is very hard to see at all. The conference in football is really not that good our division alone has two upstart programs into IA football. Two Florida teams that really have little tradition. We are not really even winning our division enough.
