“Safe Space” zone for Sam & the rest of the haters...

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Points in time...in year 5 for Doc and year 5 for Dan...they are about the same.

You're comparing a single year in time, one which was many years ago for football, to make your analysis? And you claim Cali's post was grasping?

Tell me how looking at where football was four to five years ago, just for one year, supports your statement that the two programs are about the same right now? Not only does looking at where the football program was for one year (four to five years ago) have absolutely no logic, but it has absolutely nothing to do with looking at where the two programs are today.

How many conferences are there in basketball? 32 conferences.
There are 5 in the "Group of 5" because the G5 hardly ever eclipses the P5.

I have no idea what your point is. Marshall competes against both G5 and P5 teams. When looking at all of FBS, C-USA was dead last. When looking at just the G5s, C-USA was dead last. Regardless of how you want to look at it, C-USA basketball fares far, far better than C-USA football.

That means winning C-USA basketball is a harder/better accomplishment than winning C-USA football. That holds more true when you consider Marshall's resources give it a far better advantage in football than in basketball compared with their conference peers.

Finishing wherever doesn't and shouldn't matter.

It absolutely does matter, especially when the question is which of the two programs is better.

Your claim that the only thing that matters is winning the conference is foolish when answering the question posed. Which program would be better:

Marshall basketball: wins the conference for one season then finishes dead last for the next decade.

Marshall football: wins the conference for one season then loses in the conference championship (means finishing 2nd in the conference) for the next decade.

Clearly, Marshall football would be a much better program than Marshall basketball. But according to your claim that the only thing that matters is winning the conference, you'd have to argue that both programs were the same. Absurdly stupid.

People disparage Marshall football by saying "one championship in nine years" because the football program was in much better shape than the basketball program. The football program routinely won championships before Doc. The basketball program hadn't won a conference championship in decades before D'Antoni. Had Marshall basketball consistently won the conference before D'Antoni, he would be catching some heat for having won it just once in five years. But that isn't the case.

There are higher expectations for Marshall football because that program has far more advantages to winning the conference than Marshall basketball does and because other coaches (that's plural) have shown that it can be done. That isn't the case with Marshall basketball.

Dan has as many titles and title game appearances as Doc.

. . . Dan has as many titles and title game appearances as Doc while coaching about half the amount of time and while having far less advantages than Doc has within the conference.

To claim that football is equal in success to basketball recently or that they are about equal in success is absurd. Simply look at the results of the last four years.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

.......good win after another puzzling start. Last year our reg season record was 12-6. This season, despite all of the inconsistent and sometimes abysmal play: 11-7. You can argue that the numbers are diluted because we faced lesser quality opponents down the stretch, but whose to say? One thing’s for sure; we gained our confidence and legs back over the last 2 weeks. On to Frisco!!

btw - We have never lost at The Star..... ;D)

 

[caliherd]

Really nice way to close the season. 4-0 in POD play, 5 straight wins. Ready to see what happens in Frisco!

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Update: MU has finished the reg CUSA slate tied w/3 other teams for the 2nd best won/loss record at 11-7.....
So Miss just finished taking UTSA apart 81-48....we can more than relate! They will be a very tough out next week....

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I will say this: the lack of comments by the folks I was shining a spotlight on is palpable! This is exactly what bothers me on the negative realists. They don’t post ANY comments after a win, and they dominate the board when we lose. Truth......

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You're comparing a single year in time, one which was many years ago for football, to make your analysis? And you claim Cali's post was grasping?

Tell me how looking at where football was four to five years ago, just for one year, supports your statement that the two programs are about the same right now? Not only does looking at where the football program was for one year (four to five years ago) have absolutely no logic, but it has absolutely nothing to do with looking at where the two programs are today.



I have no idea what your point is. Marshall competes against both G5 and P5 teams. When looking at all of FBS, C-USA was dead last. When looking at just the G5s, C-USA was dead last. Regardless of how you want to look at it, C-USA basketball fares far, far better than C-USA football.

That means winning C-USA basketball is a harder/better accomplishment than winning C-USA football. That holds more true when you consider Marshall's resources give it a far better advantage in football than in basketball compared with their conference peers.



It absolutely does matter, especially when the question is which of the two programs is better.

Your claim that the only thing that matters is winning the conference is foolish when answering the question posed. Which program would be better:

Marshall basketball: wins the conference for one season then finishes dead last for the next decade.

Marshall football: wins the conference for one season then loses in the conference championship (means finishing 2nd in the conference) for the next decade.

Clearly, Marshall football would be a much better program than Marshall basketball. But according to your claim that the only thing that matters is winning the conference, you'd have to argue that both programs were the same. Absurdly stupid.

People disparage Marshall football by saying "one championship in nine years" because the football program was in much better shape than the basketball program. The football program routinely won championships before Doc. The basketball program hadn't won a conference championship in decades before D'Antoni. Had Marshall basketball consistently won the conference before D'Antoni, he would be catching some heat for having won it just once in five years. But that isn't the case.

There are higher expectations for Marshall football because that program has far more advantages to winning the conference than Marshall basketball does and because other coaches (that's plural) have shown that it can be done. That isn't the case with Marshall basketball.



. . . Dan has as many titles and title game appearances as Doc while coaching about half the amount of time and while having far less advantages than Doc has within the conference.

To claim that football is equal in success to basketball recently or that they are about equal in success is absurd. Simply look at the results of the last four years.

Its not I who claims winning the conference is the end all be all, its everyone who will say, "1 title in 9 years" for Doc and not say that for Dan.
As said, because being average is you, in the first 5 years of their coaching careers, Doc and Dan are about the same. Doc of course has been here longer, however, because nobody can see the future, you have to go where both began and measure from there. If they really are the same then expect a huge drop off in wins next season for Dan however, improvement in the following seasons. That is merely speculation by the way but we can do that.
Right now MU is somehow seeded 6th despite having the 2nd best record in the conference.
We'll see how they do as they are expected to beat Rice.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

As said, because being average is you, in the first 5 years of their coaching careers, Doc and Dan are about the same.
.

You only want to look at the first five years of Doc's tenure, yet you make a comment that both programs are about at the same spot recently. "Recently" doesn't mean looking at the first 50% of somebody's tenure and ignoring the most recent results. Looking at more recent production is a much better evaluation of how a program is. In doing that, you'll see basketball is performing far better than football, even though basketball has far less resources and harder competition than football, and is well ahead of where football is right now.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

National perception:
Basketball > Football
National positive news exposure:
Basketball > Football

 

[The Real SamC]

National perception:
Basketball > Football
National positive news exposure:
Basketball > Football

Wrong. MU is just another one of the 300-odd one-bid league teams in basketball. Last year we had a one-weekend feel good story nobody outside our sphere remembers. In football, leaving aside the obvious special story that will never be forgotten, we are one of 130 teams, and in the upper level of those in terms of recent success.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Wrong. MU is just another one of the 300-odd one-bid league teams in basketball. Last year we had a one-weekend feel good story nobody outside our sphere remembers. In football, leaving aside the obvious special story that will never be forgotten, we are one of 130 teams, and in the upper level of those in terms of recent success.

Let’s have a gander at the goings-on in Frisco, shall we?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

In football, leaving aside the obvious special story that will never be forgotten, we are one of 130 teams, and in the upper level of those in terms of recent success.

Bullshit. In terms of national perception, every single P5 team (including ND and BYU) is thought of higher than Marshall. Hell, I'll even throw you a bone and say that Kansas and Rutgers aren't, but every other P5 team is. That means Marshall would have to be perceived as one of the nine best G5 teams/programs to fit your top half narrative. No way.

Boise, Houston, UCF, Memphis, Cinci, USF, Utah State, Fresno State, San Diego State, and App State are all considered better programs. That already pushes Marshall out of the top half of programs even after excluding Kansas and Rutgers (which, let's be honest, are still better programs simply based on the money, recruiting, facilities, exposure, etc. that come along with P5 status). Then, you have other places like Troy, Colorado State, Air Force, Wyoming, etc. whose overall programs have an argument as to being better.

On the other hand, Marshall is absolutely a top 175 basketball program which puts them in the top half.

 

[The Real SamC]

Let’s have a gander at the goings-on in Frisco, shall we?

Why? Whoever wins the tournament gets its name read on Sunday and will be between a 14 to 16 seed (USA Today has ODU @14) along with the likes of Wright State, Bradley, Norfolk State, Gardner-Webb, and so on. Fans of the big school they play will google it to find out where it even is located. It will play one, or at best two games, in a feverish sea of 16 games per day. The tournament will continue for two more weeks and, maybe, it wil appear for 4 seconds in this year's "One Shining Moment" video after the big game.

Meanwhile, our football program, one of only 130 in the top division and having played in the post season 5 of the last 6 years, and 14 times in its 22 years at the top level, is simply a bigger deal. Memo: If your name isn't Duke, North Carolina or Kentucky, football is the bigger deal.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You only want to look at the first five years of Doc's tenure, yet you make a comment that both programs are about at the same spot recently. "Recently" doesn't mean looking at the first 50% of somebody's tenure and ignoring the most recent results. Looking at more recent production is a much better evaluation of how a program is. In doing that, you'll see basketball is performing far better than football, even though basketball has far less resources and harder competition than football, and is well ahead of where football is right now.

The two had alike situations when they were hired. I measured their first 5 seasons because in a timeline perspective, thats only fair.
Of course given that Dan was hired years after Doc, and his success was more recent, its going to look much better.
However, since he hd the rotten luck of being hired after Doc, I'll compare Doc's year 6 to Dan's year 6 next season and so on.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

The two had alike situations when they were hired. I measured their first 5 seasons because in a timeline perspective, thats only fair.
.

You make absolutely no sense, child.

Your comment was that both programs under their current coaches are about at the same level. You don't look at the results from ten years ago to measure a current program's status or success. So why would you do that to measure the football team?

Look at the last four to five years - ya' know, an entire recruiting cycle for a career. In looking at both programs currently, basketball is far superior. You simply cannot rationally argue otherwise.

Of course given that Dan was hired years after Doc, and his success was more recent, its going to look much better.

You just contradicted yourself and proved my point. On page 1 of this thread, you claimed both programs were at the same level. Now, you admit that basketball has had more recent success, in other words, meaning the basketball program is superior to the football currently.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You make absolutely no sense, child.

Your comment was that both programs under their current coaches are about at the same level. You don't look at the results from ten years ago to measure a current program's status or success. So why would you do that to measure the football team?

Look at the last four to five years - ya' know, an entire recruiting cycle for a career. In looking at both programs currently, basketball is far superior. You simply cannot rationally argue otherwise.




You just contradicted yourself and proved my point. On page 1 of this thread, you claimed both programs were at the same level. Now, you admit that basketball has had more recent success, in other words, meaning the basketball program is superior to the football currently.

Posting a self proclaimed victory over an online poster must feel about as good as that one time you were nomimated for player of the week.
Anyways .269, you won't really change one's opinions.
All that matters now is the tournament.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Here’s another chance, sad Sam! It shouldn’t be that hard for an impassioned fan such as yourself.....just take off your reality cap and don your fan cap! ....feels good, doesn’t it? Herd put on a show tonite!
No pressure - it’s up to you old timer....
Go Herd!!

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Posting a self proclaimed victory over an online poster
.

It's not self-proclaimed. You're such a moron that you actually argued for my position which you originally had tried arguing against in many posts. Doh!

that one time you were nomimated for player of the week.

Three times. Three is the number after two.

you won't really change one's opinions.
.

I already did. And it was your opinion, moron. You argued my exact point and were too dumb to realize it.

Anyways .269,

This is truly, truly sad. Not only did you Google me to try and look at my stats, but in doing so, you showed 1) just how stupid you are to not be able to do basic math since my career average was over .269 or 2) just how stupid you are to not be able to see a very easily identified mistake on a website.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It's not self-proclaimed. You're such a moron that you actually argued for my position which you originally had tried arguing against in many posts. Doh!



Three times. Three is the number after two.



I already did. And it was your opinion, moron. You argued my exact point and were too dumb to realize it.



This is truly, truly sad. Not only did you Google me to try and look at my stats, but in doing so, you showed 1) just how stupid you are to not be able to do basic math since my career average was over .269 or 2) just how stupid you are to not be able to see a very easily identified mistake on a website.

Goodness .269, calm down....quit taking your failures to be anything beyond a blip in a forgotten era of MU baseball on others because you disagree with them. If your efforts on this site were only somehow used on the baseball field, you may have gotten a call. Then you could say you got a call from the MLB!
Still wouldn't have made it however. But thats better than not one...not two...but three player of the week nominations!!!

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Goodness .269, calm down....quit taking your failures to be anything beyond a blip in a forgotten era of MU baseball on others because you disagree with them. If your efforts on this site were only somehow used on the baseball field, you may have gotten a call. Then you could say you got a call from the MLB!
Still wouldn't have made it however. But thats better than not one...not two...but three player of the week nominations!!!

GHMY - I don’t know you. Quit shitting all over my thread. Personal attacks & casting aspersions ( you may have to look that one up) on ppl you have a beef with is not cool! Grow up. We are talking about negative “fans” on here.... ;D)

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

GHMY - I don’t know you. Quit shitting all over my thread. Personal attacks & casting aspersions ( you may have to look that one up) on ppl you have a beef with is not cool! Grow up. We are talking about negative “fans” on here.... ;D)

Then why did you create this thread?

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Then why did you create this thread?

....because it’s supposed to be about basketball! Not football & most certainly not baseball.
ARHF - like your style ;D)

 

[The Real SamC]

No, this thread is not about basketball at all. I, and several other realistic fans, have started and contributed to basketball threads since November. You, and your fellow North Carolinan shut all those down with "you are negative, one time we were 4th in the league and won the tournament, we might do that again". That is the sum total of you two's basketball contributions. You don't want to discuss basketball. Just the theoretical possibility that this year's team might win a tournament. And not even that, with adult level discourse, as you totally ignore the regular season and thus have nothing to reference, just "well I'm a Marshall fan and for Marshall, and I sure do hope we win the tournament." Which is, with all due respect, bless you heart, child like fandom, if not Spamtard level.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

No, this thread is not about basketball at all. I, and several other realistic fans, have started and contributed to basketball threads since November. You, and your fellow North Carolinan shut all those down with "you are negative, one time we were 4th in the league and won the tournament, we might do that again". That is the sum total of you two's basketball contributions. You don't want to discuss basketball. Just the theoretical possibility that this year's team might win a tournament. And not even that, with adult level discourse, as you totally ignore the regular season and thus have nothing to reference, just "well I'm a Marshall fan and for Marshall, and I sure do hope we win the tournament." Which is, with all due respect, bless you heart, child like fandom, if not Spamtard level.

If you win the regular season in C-USA is simply gets you a #1 seed and a bye. Not a single fan, coach, or player in C-USA would take a regulars season title over the real conference championship (the one in the tournament that gets the auto-bid). As a result, Marshall has finished in the top two the last two years. Feel free to compare that to football . . . feel free to compare how basketball did last year, two years ago, and three years ago compared to football.

 

[i am herdman]

Goodness .269, calm down....quit taking your failures to be anything beyond a blip in a forgotten era of MU baseball on others because you disagree with them. If your efforts on this site were only somehow used on the baseball field, you may have gotten a call. Then you could say you got a call from the MLB!
Still wouldn't have made it however. But thats better than not one...not two...but three player of the week nominations!!!

Thanks for the post, MR Supporter of 2nd Place IN East Division Mediocrity.

And I hit I hit .385 in JV Ball and was probably All Conference Bull Pen Catcher and later when on to coach a Babe Ruth Team to the League Championship. So, I could play and I can coach.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

No, this thread is not about basketball at all. I, and several other realistic fans, have started and contributed to basketball threads since November. You, and your fellow North Carolinan shut all those down with "you are negative, one time we were 4th in the league and won the tournament, we might do that again". That is the sum total of you two's basketball contributions. You don't want to discuss basketball. Just the theoretical possibility that this year's team might win a tournament. And not even that, with adult level discourse, as you totally ignore the regular season and thus have nothing to reference, just "well I'm a Marshall fan and for Marshall, and I sure do hope we win the tournament." Which is, with all due respect, bless you heart, child like fandom, if not Spamtard level.

Sam - Spamtard level? Like you believe I am a closet WVU fan? Really? You are just unhappy in life, and that is unfortunate. And if you are not feeling it in your gut right now, like I am, over this loss, then you’re not being honest with yourself that you care about Marshall. You never cheer when we win; you seem to delight in our losses. Why are you on this board?
Peace out, brother! I harbor no animus. Just sympathy.

 

[The Real SamC]

Why are you. You, without knowing it, covered your problem in your post.

THIS LOSS.

EVERY LOSS pains me. You ignore the regular season, not only the results but the facts and issues that could be learned from it.

We could have had, as we do in football and other things, a great and beneficial discussion all season about why this team, picked #25 by Sporting News, was so grossly unprepared and thus so grossly underperformed. We didn't because you, and your fellow North Carolinan had a one line come back. "One time we were 4th in the conference and got hot in a tournament."

Yep.

One time.

Not this time. Probably not next time. Probably ever 20 years or so.

How much better to demand more that dumb luck. How much better to expect to D O M I N A T E this s***y for basketball, football conference. To expect to W I N. EVERY TIME we take the court. November-March.

As 2018 fades further and further into the rear view mirror, upgrade your fandom. EXPECT to win. DEMAND winning. Understand that 5th in the conference,, a loss in the first full round of the conference tournament, five assreaming blowouts, including one in conference, and taking a month off are UNACCEPTABLE. We are Marshall and Marshall should dominate this rando conference of rando directionals.

 

[i am herdman]

CUSA is a better basketball conference as compared to football.

 

[The Real SamC]

CUSA is a better basketball conference as compared to football.

That is laughable. A third of this league does not even make an effort in basketball.

 

[i am herdman]

That is laughable. A third of this league does not even make an effort in basketball.

Half of them don't have a pulse in football. Marshall should sleep walk through 8 wins every year.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Half of them don't have a pulse in football. Marshall should sleep walk through 8 wins every year.

How many should MU have sleepwalked in basketball this year?
Lets not forget the amazing run we had a year ago with 99% of the team returning and a coach who not only has been here for 5 years but likely isn't going anywhere.

 

[i am herdman]

How many should MU have sleepwalked in basketball this year?
Lets not forget the amazing run we had a year ago with 99% of the team returning and a coach who not only has been here for 5 years but likely isn't going anywhere.

I don't think anybody is saying Marshall didn't have a disappointing season in basketball.