That's not what is being discussed, the below quote by herodman is....
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- Thread starter herdfan429
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That's not what is being discussed, the below quote by herodman is....
From a licensed dealer you do. And owning or possession is different than buying. That is grandpa giving his grandson a family heirloom.
Why should the feds be in the business of telling me I can't give my son a family gun?
Here, let me help you: MORE THAN HALF OF THE STATES HAVE NO MINIMUM AGE FOR OWNING A RIFLE. A rifle also includes an AR-15.
In other words, you can be 13 and own an AR-15, but dammit kid, you'll have to wait another 8 years until you can have a beer and another five years until you can rent a car.
Oh, is that because you actually researched the bullshit you typed, realized it was wrong, and now are trying to hide from it? Good strategy.
Do you still think that you "absolutely have to show ID and prove your age to buy a gun"? Do you still think that laws require background checks and waiting periods on all gun purchases?
That's false. If the rapper were slandering somebody who isn't exempt or numerous other examples of unprotected free speech, I would be alright with it. That's because free speech doesn't mean absolutely no limits, and it has been like that for hundreds of years. The right to bear arms also shouldn't be void of limits, and that is where common sense gun control comes in.
This is what you said:"Anyone under 18 cannot legally purchase a gun. Period."
I've proven that you can. That "gun grabbing Gifford's" site is factually correct. Over a third of states don't have a minimum age to buy a long gun. Now run and hide before you look even more stupid.
How many require parents permission?
Furthermore, the federal govt has no authority in that situation other than new gun sales. I believe the feds lost a case in 2013.
Again Vermont might be the only one that doesn't require parental permission. I am on my phone and not going to look it up.
Keep reaching. I posted the information in a previous post. The post gave BUYER RULES INFORMATION. Let's look at the first 2 examples:
Colorado
Buyer: No limit to number or firearms purchased at once, no waiting period to purchase, 18+ for handguns, no minimum age for long guns
Georgia
Buyer: 18+ for handguns, no minimum age for long guns
Do you see any limitations requiring Buyers to have parental permission? No, no you don't.
LOL, really going fishing tomorrow and I don't feel like arguing with you anymore.
s
You know why the feds do not have that power? And, do you know why people are so opposed to it?
1)Personal property transfers from one private individual to another. That is not a federal issue.
2)What you are advocating is universal background checks. that sounds all fine and dandy. But, wait. Why don't the feds have that power? The only way universal background checks work is for a national gun registry. That is where the line is drawn. The only way a universal background check is work is to register guns. Want to give you kids a gun from generation to generation? Background check? Gun registration. Without it there is no way to know you are not transferring to. The only way a universal background check system works is to register either guns or gun owners or both. Your wife knows you have guns in the house. Registration or check required? You loan your buddy a shotgun to go hunting? Require background check?
From a legal discussion:
A felon is found with a gun. Who did he get it from?
Without the gun being registered to someone you can't charge someone with the crime of selling a gun to a prohibited person. Without that, the law would be pretty much toothless and useless.
WITH registration when a prohibited person is found with a gun you quickly and easily go back to the last legal owner and charge them with selling to a prohibited person, failing to report that the gun was stolen and/or failure to secure the gun. All might become crimes in the UBC laws.
Recent shootings:
Parkland shooter -- passed
Sutherland Springs church shooter -- passed (he shouldn't have, but he did)
Las Vegas shooter -- passed
Pulse Nightclub shooter -- passed
Republican baseball team shooter -- passed
Many other crimes and shootings the guns are already stolen, purchased illegally(straw man, etc.), or another crime committed to get them.
So, what you are all calling for, and many of us, see right through it is a universal background check that leads to a national gun registration or owner registration or both. That leads to confiscation and undo taxation at best.
So, where I hear common sense gun registration and buzz words that is what it leads to. Not going to happen and that is what you want.
Use. Posession. Purchase are separate issues and there are separate powers to the federal government and states?
You know why the feds do not have that power? And, do you know why people are so opposed to it?
1)Personal property transfers from one private individual to another. That is not a federal issue.
2)What you are advocating is universal background checks. that sounds all fine and dandy. But, wait. Why don't the feds have that power? The only way universal background checks work is for a national gun registry. That is where the line is drawn. The only way a universal background check is work is to register guns. Want to give you kids a gun from generation to generation? Background check? Gun registration. Without it there is no way to know you are not transferring to. The only way a universal background check system works is to register either guns or gun owners or both. Your wife knows you have guns in the house. Registration or check required? You loan your buddy a shotgun to go hunting? Require background check?
From a legal discussion:
A felon is found with a gun. Who did he get it from?
Without the gun being registered to someone you can't charge someone with the crime of selling a gun to a prohibited person. Without that, the law would be pretty much toothless and useless.
WITH registration when a prohibited person is found with a gun you quickly and easily go back to the last legal owner and charge them with selling to a prohibited person, failing to report that the gun was stolen and/or failure to secure the gun. All might become crimes in the UBC laws.
Recent shootings:
Parkland shooter -- passed
Sutherland Springs church shooter -- passed (he shouldn't have, but he did)
Las Vegas shooter -- passed
Pulse Nightclub shooter -- passed
Republican baseball team shooter -- passed
Many other crimes and shootings the guns are already stolen, purchased illegally(straw man, etc.), or another crime committed to get them.
So, what you are all calling for, and many of us, see right through it is a universal background check that leads to a national gun registration or owner registration or both. That leads to confiscation and undo taxation at best.
So, where I hear common sense gun registration and buzz words that is what it leads to. Not going to happen and that is what you want.
No, it absolutely isn't. If you're considered a dealer (licensee) than it has merit, but outside of that, it is entirely false.
Why do you continue to perpetuate shit that you know isn't true?
"For long guns, which includes rifles like AR-15s and shotguns, the minimum age of purchase from a licensed dealer is 18 under the federal law. But there’s no minimum age to purchase a long gun from a unlicensed seller.
http://thehill.com/homenews/politics-101/375154-what-are-the-current-age-restrictions-on-guns
It is a state issue when it is not a federal dealer....new guns. The state's can pass the laws to deal with it not.
Exactly. A state issue. Which courts have upheld. Used guns between private insividuals Don't like it? Talk to your State . The feds have now power over that. And I have you the reasons why .
You guys want to argue over semantics well there you go.
Private sellers can sell NEW long guns to people under 18. You attempted to tell us.....
"Anyone under 18 cannot legally purchase a gun. Period."
Keep trying to move those goal posts.
That's not the part I was refuting. I was refuting the part in which you continue, incorrectly, to say that under federal law, you have to be 18 to buy a gun. That's false.
This is awesome. The first two examples you told us to look at blew up in your face. You've now avoided discussing those two and want to look at other ones.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/doe...rtain-age-buy-firearms-or-ammunition-licensee
Now spell it out and stop throwing buzzwords around. There is federal authority and state authority. I know you gun grabbing dictators want an all powerful federal government
Read the question in your own link, stupid. It says "from a licensee." Do you know what that means? It means from those people who are professional sellers (primary source of income, brick-and-mortar location, frequent sellers, etc.). That's the giant loophole that is as large as the fvcking hole in your head.
In other words, Joe Redneck can take a few ARs down to the flea market, gun show, or wherever, and sell them to any fvcker he wants without worry about age, background check, record of sale, etc. Since we clearly have plenty of Joe Rednecks in this country, it is very easy to buy these weapons without proving your age, background checks, etc.
Read slower: LICENSEE
And I have told you he is breaking the law
Read slower. Perhaps straw man purchases and selling guns without a ffl. They are not enforcing it.
We don't need more laws. We have given and given in. No more. Law abiding citizens have caved and caved
He is absolutely NOT breaking the law. God damn, are you truly this stupid or just trolling?
Only licensees have to do background checks, check IDs, etc. The overwhelming majority of people who only sell a few guns per year at not considered licensees. These things are not debatable; they are facts. As a result, a guy who sells only a few guns every six months or every year is not considered a dealer, does not need a license, and does not need to do background checks.
Again, this isn't shit that is being disputed. That is why the word "licensee" and/or "dealer" is always used by the NRA and other gun organizations when they answer this question.
And we've been trying to tell you that a private seller is NOT breaking the law if he/she purchases a new long gun and sells it to a person under 18 years of age. Neither federal or state, depending on the state.
That is called a straw man purchase and is in fact illegal. They even ask you on the forrm when you are buying a new gun.
You don't know what "straw purchase" means. It is a term identifying when a person buys a gun or somebody who would not be eligible to buy the gun with the intention of giving/selling it to the ineligible buyer. That's not the case in E.T.'s example.
I could buy a few guns last month. I may need some extra money this month, so I head down to the flea market to sell one or two of my new ARs. I can then sell them to a person without verifying age, background check, etc. That is not a straw purchase. It is entirely legal. You're still a dumbass on this topic who either doesn't understand basic laws or is wasting my time trolling the subject repeatedly.
Because that is what they are. Having to use the terms "licensee" or "dealer" is needed because if you aren't either, you can sell guns without a background check. Common sense gun control is exactly what it says it is. There is no hidden meaning or manipulation like the NRA tries to use to get the uneducated to eat what they are cooking.
Well we disagree. Get over it. You choose buzzwords by gun control crowds and bring up scenarios and try to say they are legal. In fact many of the shooters recently passed background checks. You are just spouting hogwash cor those who want universal background checks and gun registration.
Good luck telling the atf you bought 2k worth of guns last month and thrn bought a rented space to go sell them. Of course they are not enforcing the current laws.
Good luck telling the atf you bought 2k worth of guns last month and thrn bought a rented space to go sell them. Of course they are not enforcing the current laws.
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No, it is not a straw man purchase. It is perfectly legal for a private seller to sell a new long gun to someone under 18. In the United States, a straw purchaser of a firearm at a federally licensed firearm dealership who lies about the identity of the ultimate possessor of the gun can be charged with making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record.
Time frame in your scenario? You think i can go start buying guns and turn around and start selling them to minors?
There is no time frame, moron. The minors can purchase long guns by themselves, so why couldn't you sell them one?
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