Can we give Doc a little credit?

[ohio herd]

After the debacle of 2016 he has righted the ship again. I know this year was shaky at times but we found a way to win 9 games. Yes it is disappointing to not win the title. Last night was IMO a precursor to good things to come next year. We were one bad play away(S. Miss game) from being 10-3 this year.
I get it ,he is not an elite coach like Saban or Meyer, but he is way above the average . Also, we can't afford those guys anyway.Even if we get one on their way up they are gone quickly and turnover often creates a void and doesn't always work out. I for one think we are fortunate to have Doc. I think he has the program going in the right direction again.

 

[i am herdman]

Going in the right direction? He has been at MU how many years? And, didn't get in the championship game. He is a mediocre coach. That's what it is .

 

[ohio herd]

Going in the right direction? He has been at MU how many years? And, didn't get in the championship game. He is a mediocre coach. That's what it is .

serious question. What is your solution? I am also disappointed in not winning another title. But even with the melt down in 2016 we are 53 -26 the past 6 years. I am excluding years 1-3 because I consider those building seasons for Doc.That is 2 east titles and 1 conference championship. We have 1 Top 25 finish. Can we do better? I think so. But the wheels are absolutely not falling off.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Are we disappointed? Yes. However most projected 2018 to be amazing before our 3yr starter left. We started a freshman QB so everyone should have adjusted their predictions accordingly. Then our starter goes out and we lose to a good team on MTSU. Sucks. Badly. It happens.

We had to lean on a QB in Thomson that we took mostly sight unseen and he could not play at a high enough level as we needed against USM and we got in a hole. We bring in the FR who hasn't played in 4 weeks or so because of injury and he wasn't ready to go.

When your QB position is unstable you are going to have problems playing at a championship level no matter your conference.

The team improved as the season went on and capped it off with a dominating win against a team from a better conference.

I expect Green to be even better next year.

As much as Doc is maligned on this board the program is leaps and bounds better than when he took it over which is why we all have such high expectations and we have been one of the best G5 teams. There are about 50 other G5 teams that would kill for what we've had.

I am not saying I'm okay with now winning the conference, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[Tim_N_Montana]

Are we disappointed? Yes. However most projected 2018 to be amazing before our 3yr starter left. We started a freshman QB so everyone should have adjusted their predictions accordingly. Then our starter goes out and we lose to a good team on MTSU. Sucks. Badly. It happens.

We had to lean on a QB in Thomson that we took mostly sight unseen and he could not play at a high enough level as we needed against USM and we got in a hole. We bring in the FR who hasn't played in 4 weeks or so because of injury and he wasn't ready to go.

When your QB position is unstable you are going to have problems playing at a championship level no matter your conference.

The team improved as the season went on and capped it off with a dominating win against a team from a better conference.

I expect Green to be even better next year.

As much as Doc is maligned on this board the program is leaps and bounds better than when he took it over which is why we all have such high expectations and we have been one of the best G5 teams. There are about 50 other G5 teams that would kill for what we've had.

I am not saying I'm okay with now winning the conference, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

Agree.

Another thing that seems to be overlooked is that we had 2 new coordinators. I understand much didn't change with the D but this was an entirely new system, entirely new coach to the team add on top of that a RS FR QB and I think 9 wins is a good season.

3 years ago we thought this should be our year with a great OOC schedule, SR QB that looked at the time like a NFL draft pick , SR WR and awesome D but changes came. Sucks but is what it is. We ended strong and looked like a different team than the middle of the season. Reality is that it was a nice season just not what I dreamed .

 

[HerdFan73]

After the debacle of 2016 he has righted the ship again. I know this year was shaky at times but we found a way to win 9 games. Yes it is disappointing to not win the title. Last night was IMO a precursor to good things to come next year. We were one bad play away(S. Miss game) from being 10-3 this year.
I get it ,he is not an elite coach like Saban or Meyer, but he is way above the average . Also, we can't afford those guys anyway.Even if we get one on their way up they are gone quickly and turnover often creates a void and doesn't always work out. I for one think we are fortunate to have Doc. I think he has the program going in the right direction again.

Sorry, I don't think a guy deserves three years to right a ship that he was driving when it ran aground.

And has everybody forgotten how pitiful we looked against a mediocre VT team just 3 weeks ago?

 

[ohio herd]

Sorry, I don't think a guy deserves three years to right a ship that he was driving when it ran aground.

And has everybody forgotten how pitiful we looked against a mediocre VT team just 3 weeks ago?

are you serious? Are you trying to suggest that all was well during the Snyder years? If they were so good then why did we fire him? We have always struggled to beat P5 teams since 1997.

 

[i am herdman]

serious question. What is your solution? I am also disappointed in not winning another title. But even with the melt down in 2016 we are 53 -26 the past 6 years. I am excluding years 1-3 because I consider those building seasons for Doc.That is 2 east titles and 1 conference championship. We have 1 Top 25 finish. Can we do better? I think so. But the wheels are absolutely not falling off.

We don't have a solution. First, the school doesn't demand championships anymore. When is the last time you heard that from the AD or from the school President(whoever that is now)? Second, the AD locked the school into a long term bad deal with the coach and there really isn't a viable solution other than to wait it out. Third, going back to the first point, if the school doesn't care about winning at a higher level then, it doesn't matter. If they are happy finishing second in the division none of it matters.

 

[extragreen]

I don't know football very well, so there's that. But I'm going to offer an opinion anyway. It should be obvious that Doc does a very good job getting the team ready to play in bowl games, but I'm often unimpressed with some of the regular season games. With that said, it's my opinion that Doc and staff did their best year of coaching this season. If Doc and staff improve some next year over and above what they did this year, my opinion of him will be changed from "meh" to "hey, look!" JMHO

 

[herd66]

I have my hopes every year and was not happen eith the regular results ,but winning the bowl game will give us fans feeling positive about next year.Go Herd

 

[HerdFan73]

are you serious? Are you trying to suggest that all was well during the Snyder years? If they were so good then why did we fire him? We have always struggled to beat P5 teams since 1997.

Who said anything about Snyder? I'm talking about the 2016 ditch he put us in that took him three years to get us out. If you call finishing 2nd in conference USA east and losing by three scores each to a decent ACC team and a below average ACC team, "out."

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

However most projected 2018 to be amazing before our 3yr starter left.

.

The staff has a lot of blame for that on their shoulders.

We started a freshman QB

The staff has a lot of blame for that on their shoulders.

We had to lean on a QB in Thomson that we took mostly sight unseen and he could not play at a high enough level as we needed

.

The staff has a lot of blame for that on their shoulders.

When your QB position is unstable

.

The staff has a lot of blame for that on their shoulders.

The team improved as the season went on

They did? More than any other team? What do you base that on - one game against a team that lost its last 7 games, all by double digits, and who was playing without their OC?

Getting your head kicked in against a 5-6 ACC team in your next to last game doesn't seem like "improved as the season went on."

I am excluding years 1-3 because I consider those building seasons for Doc..

You realize there are G5 programs with far less history, success, and expectations (at least from a fan perspective) who just fired their coaches after fewer than 3 years, right? Western Kentucky fired their coach after 2 years. Texas State fired their coach after 2.5 years. Georgia Southern fired their coach after 1 year.

Those schools expected significantly better results after 1 - 2.5 years, yet you want to give a 3 year free pass? Absurdity.

With your revised record, I'm guessing you took away all the wins he had against programs that had a new coach within the previous three years, right? I mean, that's only fair and intellectually honest. If you don't count Doc's losses during his first three years because they are "building seasons," then surely you wouldn't count his wins against other programs who have had a new head coach within the previous three years since they would be having "building seasons," too, right? No? Exactly.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Yay, we won a bowl game against a team that was on a big-time losing streak and had 95% of their players look absolutely disinterested when we played them.

 

[minvikfan1]

I thought Isaiah Green did well as a freshman first year starter under a first year offense. I'm really interested in seeing him take the next step with the same offensive staff and all the players that return on offense. The playcalling on Thursday night was another thing that gave me hope. Some of the reads Isaiah made were impressive (love seeing him keep the ball and getting good yards with his legs) I know he's not a great runner by any means but he can make still make plays by running by making great reads

 

[31Herd55]

Yay, we won a bowl game against a team that was on a big-time losing streak and had 95% of their players look absolutely disinterested when we played them.

...and 11 on suspension.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

...and 11 on suspension.

Holy crap, I didn't know that. Wow.

 

[muthed]

...and 11 on suspension.

Not our problem. We played against whomever they put us up against. I doubt if the teams that we lost to this year are downplaying their victories because we played without Green, or King, or Davis, or Bee, or anybody else who might not have suited up for a particular game.

 

[ohio herd]

Good lauwd when we win we bitch and when we lose we bitch. We beat a team that beat two P5 schools this season and at one point was ranked. They are also from the higher ranked American conference. I say a good win....I'll take it!

 

[SrHerdFan]

Good lauwd when we win we bitch and when we lose we bitch. We beat a team that beat two P5 schools this season and at one point was ranked. They are also from the higher ranked American conference. I say a good win....I'll take it!

Not all of us bitch...

 

[THUNDERGround]

IMHO, we have to put things into perspective and separate being proud of our team for winning vs. truly analyzing where the team is.

For instance, our win over USF was a nice bowl win over a once pretty big deal P5 team. I am proud of the team for that.

But I have to say that this was a much maligned (both injury and suspension) USF team. It was almost as if we were going up against many of their 2’s. So while I am proud of our Herd, I won’t gloat about beating a team whose wheels fell off their wagon and appeared as if they'd rather be having invasive root canal surgery than being on the field with us.

We need to win the OOC G5 games we should and pick off a few P5 teams in the process. But that starts way above field level.

Again, only my opinion.

 

[LytezOut]

A win is a win.You can't control the personnel of the other team. It's next man up. Didn't the Eagles win the superbowl with their backup?

 

[pdbailey]

...and 11 on suspension.

Only a few of those players were decent contributors in 2018.

 

[pdbailey]

Yay, we won a bowl game against a team that was on a big-time losing streak and had 95% of their players look absolutely disinterested when we played them.

I don't care! This qualifying of every win garbage is BS and needs to stop! We dominated the game from beginning to end and won by 18!

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I don't care! This qualifying of every win garbage is BS and needs to stop! We dominated the game from beginning to end and won by 18!

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I don't care! This qualifying of every win garbage is BS and needs to stop! We dominated the game from beginning to end and won by 18!

When judging a team, it's quite normal to look at the wins and losses, who they played, and how competitive the games were.

If Marshall lost to Alabama by 1, nobody would be complaining. Nobody is saying that beating USF is a bad thing. But acting like beating an 8th place AAC team that was without its OC, had 11 players suspended, and finished the year by losing 7 straight games is some sort of proof that Marshall improved throughout the year (especially after the previous game) is absurd.

 

[5150]

After the debacle of 2016 he has righted the ship again. I know this year was shaky at times but we found a way to win 9 games. Yes it is disappointing to not win the title. Last night was IMO a precursor to good things to come next year. We were one bad play away(S. Miss game) from being 10-3 this year.
I get it ,he is not an elite coach like Saban or Meyer, but he is way above the average . Also, we can't afford those guys anyway.Even if we get one on their way up they are gone quickly and turnover often creates a void and doesn't always work out. I for one think we are fortunate to have Doc. I think he has the program going in the right direction again.

I do have my problems with Doc and It mostly involves recruiting instate kids and that was more of an issue when he had so many florida kids leaving the program and caused the 2016 mess but he has worked hard at fixing those issues. If I were a CUSA coach I would not be looking forward to playing Masshall next year because this team continues to be young.

This was the year to win the conference but Litton left early. This was his year to put up huge numbers and become a high draft pick, but like everything else in his life he tucked and ran.

 

[mubaseballking]

Even if we had won the conference title this season, it wouldn't change my opinion that Doc isn't the guy to continue leading Marshall Football. Too inconsistent, too many bad losses and too many games where the team looked lost and unprepared. Also add in too many excuse when asked about why the team didn't compete better, didn't win, etc.

 

[5150]

Even if we had won the conference title this season, it wouldn't change my opinion that Doc isn't the guy to continue leading Marshall Football. Too inconsistent, too many bad losses and too many games where the team looked lost and unprepared. Also add in too many excuse when asked about why the team didn't compete better, didn't win, etc.

I would say the full body of work for Doc is not told yet.

 

[BisonPa]

I think it is safe to say that Coach Holiday will be the same going forward as we have seen for the past several years. He has had different coordinators on both side of the ball with very little difference in results. He will not get any better and will not get any worse. If you are satisfied with him, your opinion will probably never change. If you are not satisfied with him, you probably never will be.

 

[johns_1124]

We beat a team that beat two P5 schools this season and at one point was ranked.

Funny part is when we played the same P5 school we got our a$$ handed to us.

 

[minvikfan1]

Funny part is when we played the same P5 school we got our a$$ handed to us.

We didn't play Georgia Tech or Illinois

 

[ohio herd]

Funny part is when we played the same P5 school we got our a$$ handed to us.

??? S. Fl played Ga Tech and Ill. When did we play either of those two?

 

[ohio herd]

Doc is now #2 all time in wins at Marshall.
Bob Pruett 94-23
Doc Holiday 70-46
Cam Henderson 68- 46-5
Jim Donnan 64-21

 

[johns_1124]

No, but using your logic; ODU beat VT, we beat ODU and VT handed us our a$$. Who beats, Who doesn't mean shit!

 

[johns_1124]

Doc Holiday 70-46

60% with a lighter then air conference. And only 2 wins against P5.

With Marshall name and reputation in the sport a monkey can coach to those standards, maybe even Yagi.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Doc is now #2 all time in wins at Marshall.
Bob Pruett 94-23
Doc Holidayjust 70-46
Cam Henderson 68- 46-5
Jim Donnan 64-21

For the record, I am pro-Doc. But - looking at Pruett vs Holliday, what jumps out @ me is the # of games coached. When Doc & Co open next season, he will have coached Marshall the exact same # of games that Bob did. 23 or 24 more wins in the same # of seasons! Just pointing out how impressive the Pruitt year’s were! Go Herd.....

 

[ohio herd]

60% with a lighter then air conference. And only 2 wins against P5.

With Marshall name and reputation in the sport a monkey can coach to those standards, maybe even Yagi.

3 wins- Purdue, Maryland and Louisville

 

[ohio herd]

60% with a lighter then air conference. And only 2 wins against P5.

With Marshall name and reputation in the sport a monkey can coach to those standards, maybe even Yagi.

sorry to bust your bubble but our SOS is the exact same as it was during our time on the MAC.

 

[ohio herd]

For the record, I am pro-Doc. But - looking at Pruett vs Holliday, what jumps out @ me is the # of games coached. When Doc & Co open next season, he will have coached Marshall the exact same # of games that Bob did. 23 or 24 more wins in the same # of seasons! Just pointing out how impressive the Pruitt year’s were! Go Herd.....

true BP is the best coach we ever had.

 

[The Real SamC]

Yes. And today he is 75 years old, and has not worked, other than as a paid "ambassador" for the gov, the Greenbrier, and the Friends of Coal (to the extent that those 3 things are not one thing) for over a decade and a half.

The football anhedonians, who expect us to win every game, every year, and consider that to really be no accomplishment, now want to make a contrast between a current coach, and one long retied, who is not walking through that door. This is, of course, far easier than admitting they know nothing about football, and the delusional idea that MU should win every game, that it has some sort of "national reputation" or these vast resources beyond CUSA mates, and that the other teams should just be in awe of us.