College Athletics will Never be the Same

[BleedsGreen33]

How will the NCAA respond? Will other states follow? Will this boost California schools' recruiting?

If this becomes accepted practice across the board what does this mean for schools like Marshall?

If I'm being completely honest I hope it does. I'm hoping for the entire system to collapse.

California Governor Signs Plan to Let N.C.A.A. Athletes Be Paid
Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a bill to allow college athletes to hire agents and make money from endorsements. The measure, the first of its kind, threatens the business model of college sports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/sports/college-athletes-paid-california.html

 

[RhinoD]

A new day has arrived... Whether that is good or bad, we shall see.

My guess is the NCAA will respond by barring all California teams from playing in NCAA events (thus making them play only each other). That's the nuclear option, but there can't be two sets of rules where Cali kids are getting paid and everyone else is not.

The short answer on boosting recruiting, is absolutely. If UCLA can offer a good QB/PG/Pitcher the chance to make say $50,000 a year by doing car dealership ads for some booster and every other school is saying come play for free, guess where that kid is going...

The key to this whole pissing match is other states... If the 49 other states stick with the NCAA, then California will have to relent eventually and get back on the bus. If other states, especially major states (IE Texas, Florida, North Carolina, etc) go with California then the NCAA will cease to exist and we will basically have minor league operations for the three revenue sports with the Olympic sports becoming non-profit entities.

What that means for Marshall?... Probably not much... We aren't getting top tier talent right now in the three major revenue sports so allowing us to pay athletes, when other larger schools can pay way more, isn't going to change our landscape much. The bad news is the divide between the haves and have nots will certainly grow.

 

[The Real SamC]

Since there is no definition of what an athlete can be paid, obviously mega boosters will pay the players millions. Pay will be expected all the way down the line, and that will be that.

 

[i am herdman]

The NCAA should just ban the California schools and maintain that it is an amateur organization.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

The NCAA should just ban the California schools and maintain that it is an amateur organization.

"Amateur"

 

[i am herdman]

"Amateur"

Ok, yehhh. But the issue is does it open the flood gates to the big time schools such as the SEC to say we are not going to let those schools get a leg up on us.

The whole thing is a deck of cards anyway. Brick and mortar colleges are going to die one of these days. Just enjoy it while you can. It will crumble. There is no need to send little johnny to school and go 100k in debt when you can use technology to replace it.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Ok, yehhh. But the issue is does it open the flood gates to the big time schools such as the SEC to say we are not going to let those schools get a leg up on us.

The whole thing is a deck of cards anyway. Brick and mortar colleges are going to die one of these days. Just enjoy it while you can. It will crumble. There is no need to send little johnny to school and go 100k in debt when you can use technology to replace it.

It does. I think the whole system needs to burn. School whore these kids out. When donors can donate "X" amount of dollars for a table at a fundraiser then be given any player(s) of their choosing I say let the players get theirs too.

They're basically setting them up for "handshakes" anyways.

When you have some dude named the head of the Fiesta Bowl making tens of millions a year to represent a game that's played once a year.

What is his function? Is anyone going to forget about the Fiesta Bowl? Are teams gonna stop playing in it because he doesn't attend/host golf scrambles?

The fact that the NCAA said this threatens their "business model" is all I need to hear.

Let it burn. All of it.

 

[i am herdman]

It does. I think the whole system needs to burn. School whore these kids out. When donors can donate "X" amount of dollars for a table at a fundraiser then be given any player(s) of their choosing I say let the players get theirs too.

They're basically setting them up for "handshakes" anyways.

When you have some dude named the head of the Fiesta Bowl making tens of millions a year to represent a game that's played once a year.

What is his function? Is anyone going to forget about the Fiesta Bowl? Are teams gonna stop playing in it because he doesn't attend/host golf scrambles?

The fact that the NCAA said this threatens their "business model" is all I need to hear.

Let it burn. All of it.

Let's be honest. Many of these guys in D1 basketball or football would never sniff a college campus if it were not for their ability. So, they are given a chance and a lot. Or given the opportunity anyway. The taxpayers basically pay for it all. Don't give me the self funded stuff. Those big stadiums, teams, and infrastructure would not exist if it were not for the schools.

It is all entertainment, but I am not sure giving some guy who can barely read a bunch of money is the answer. I think if it goes down that road then they have to have a mandate to finish school. If not, pay it back because you got more and wasted taxpayer money, resources, and time.

 

[The Real SamC]

College athletics exist, in large part, to get non-alumni to think of this or that school as “us”. Think about it, if not for college athletics, how many more non-college people in a state would know where the state universities are than know where the state fish hatchery, police academy, women’s prison, or highway department central equipment repair shop, or any other thing they don’t use is. Or would care? Or would think that one or another should have this or that program because it is “us”?

That answer is zero.

This will kill college athletics, from almost the very top to the very bottom. A minor league of 20 to 30 fully paid teams, none in WV, and none having any relationship to the schools involved other than play-pretend.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Let's be honest. Many of these guys in D1 basketball or football would never sniff a college campus if it were not for their ability. So, they are given a chance and a lot. Or given the opportunity anyway. The taxpayers basically pay for it all. Don't give me the self funded stuff. Those big stadiums, teams, and infrastructure would not exist if it were not for the schools.

It is all entertainment, but I am not sure giving some guy who can barely read a bunch of money is the answer. I think if it goes down that road then they have to have a mandate to finish school. If not, pay it back because you got more and wasted taxpayer money, resources, and time.

Payback what? They only get year to year scholarships and this endorsements would be through them and their agents. Not the school.

I may be ignorant to this, but do the Lakers get a cut of Lebron's Nike deal? Now I get it if the university facilitates the endorsements, but otherwise not sure what claim the taxpayer/school has. Also schools like USC are private institutions so I don't know where you go there.


The way college athletics is being ran now this was going to happen. One and dones were never there for the edication anyways. They're being forced to be there.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

The only purpose one and done was so the university can profit off that player for one year. Has zero to do with development, scouting, or education.

 

[herdalicious]

The real villain here is the NFL, relying on state-funded institutions to give it a free de facto semi-pro sports league.

I think what this inevitably leads to is every sport that people care about becoming more like baseball, where the collegiate product is so far from even the lowest rung of the minor leagues as to make it complete uninteresting to anyone not affiliated with the schools that are playing.

 

[JudgeDD]

The only purpose one and done was so the university can profit off that player for one year. Has zero to do with development, scouting, or education.

So, what is the purpose of the three-and-done in football?

 

[JudgeDD]

What if the NCAA jumps on board with the concept, but puts a cap on it? Say...athletes can be paid by an outside source up to $30k. $50k. $100k. The idea being to prevent schools and donors from "outbidding" each other for prized recruits. Just a thought.

 

[i am herdman]

The real villain here is the NFL, relying on state-funded institutions to give it a free de facto semi-pro sports league.

I think what this inevitably leads to is every sport that people care about becoming more like baseball, where the collegiate product is so far from even the lowest rung of the minor leagues as to make it complete uninteresting to anyone not affiliated with the schools that are playing.

The issue is let's say you set up a minor league in football. Different levels like A, AA, and AAA.

Who is going to go see the games? Nobody. Then, the money dries. People go to Auburn Alabama to see The Auburn Tigers play and same with Tuscaloosa for that matter. They go to see the Alabama Crimson Tide play and 28,000 in Huntington WV go to see Marshall play. The list goes on and on. They are not going to go in droves to see the Huntington RIver Boat Gamblers play the Rolla, Missouri Engineer Techs play.

 

[i am herdman]

What if the NCAA jumps on board with the concept, but puts a cap on it? Say...athletes can be paid by an outside source up to $30k. $50k. $100k. The idea being to prevent schools and donors from "outbidding" each other for prized recruits. Just a thought.

Or the NCAA just keeps all the money in one big pot and distributes it. Maybe California could fall in the ocean and do us all a favor.

 

[cottrell75]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/40159989

 

[BleedsGreen33]

So, what is the purpose of the three-and-done in football?

Football you can argue there needs to be development and they can actually get a degree.

One and done in basketball is new and only put in so that a school like Duke can reap the financial windfall of renting Zion Williamson.

The whole college athletics model is corrupt and it makes billions every year. It isn't about the sport. It's a money making machine.

We can pretend that the rules in place are to protect the student athlete and amateurism, but they're just there to protect the bank accounts of all those that run the show.

Where do these big tv contracts go? They go to conference commissioners, coaches, and expanding college infrastructure. Does the education improve or do the venues for which to be entertained?

It really doesn't change anything. Someone like Oregon gets blank checks to build these enormous locker room/training facilities to attract athletes and they're still paying guys to steer players their way. All this really does is put it all out in the open for what this is.

College football is a minor league for the NFL.

How many players have been suspended over petty crap like double helping at spaghetti dinners, using water hoses connected to university buildings, assistant coaches picking up one of their players in the rain on a golf cart, getting help because their parents died and they're trying to go to school play ball and keep their baby sister, have a transfer voided when they just wanted to move closer to home because their mom is sick. I can keep going.

Look at how VMI tried to extort money from the Elmores.

Coaches can leave at the drop of a dime yet someone like Qunlin Dean can't.

 

[GreenDuke]

The real villain here is the NFL, relying on state-funded institutions to give it a free de facto semi-pro sports league.

I think what this inevitably leads to is every sport that people care about becoming more like baseball, where the collegiate product is so far from even the lowest rung of the minor leagues as to make it complete uninteresting to anyone not affiliated with the schools that are playing.

You are way off base with regard to (elite)college baseball vs minor league bb. You have it completely reversed, I’ve watched a LOT of both.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

What if the NCAA jumps on board with the concept, but puts a cap on it? Say...athletes can be paid by an outside source up to $30k. $50k. $100k. The idea being to prevent schools and donors from "outbidding" each other for prized recruits. Just a thought.

You mean like they already do. Every other year we learn of some pay to play scandal at some university. USC, UNC, Miami, Kansas, and on and on. Now it will just be done in the open.

Or do we just want keep on not paying attention to the man behind a curtain.

 

[GreenDuke]

Football you can argue there needs to be development and they can actually get a degree.

One and done in basketball is new and only put in so that a school like Duke can reap the financial windfall of renting Zion Williamson.

The whole college athletics model is corrupt and it makes billions every year. It isn't about the sport. It's a money making machine.

We can pretend that the rules in place are to protect the student athlete and amateurism, but they're just there to protect the bank accounts of all those that run the show.

Where do these big tv contracts go? They go to conference commissioners, coaches, and expanding college infrastructure. Does the education improve or do the venues for which to be entertained?

It really doesn't change anything. Someone like Oregon gets blank checks to build these enormous locker room/training facilities to attract athletes and they're still paying guys to steer players their way. All this really does is put it all out in the open for what this is.

College football is a minor league for the NFL.

How many players have been suspended over petty crap like double helping at spaghetti dinners, using water hoses connected to university buildings, assistant coaches picking up one of their players in the rain on a golf cart, getting help because their parents died and they're trying to go to school play ball and keep their baby sister, have a transfer voided when they just wanted to move closer to home because their mom is sick. I can keep going.

Look at how VMI tried to extort money from the Elmores.

Coaches can leave at the drop of a dime yet someone like Qunlin Dean can't.

Yeah it’s a shame other schools aren’t allowed to sign players who become one year guys.

 

[RhinoD]

You are way off base with regard to (elite)college baseball vs minor league bb. You have it completely reversed, I’ve watched a LOT of both.

Totally agree... I watch a lot of ACC baseball living in NC and I watch a lot of Appalachian League it is very clear that the college product is better.

The NCAA has been a scam from the beginning and California has decided to end it... If they get a little help from their friends (other states) doing the same thing then college sports as we know it will be gone in five years or less.

 

[GreenDuke]

You mean like they already do. Every other year we learn of some pay to play scandal at some university. USC, UNC, Miami, Kansas, and on and on. Now it will just be done in the open.

Or do we just want keep on not paying attention to the man behind a curtain.

The unc cheating was MUCH more egregious than money payments. It was about the systematic degrading of their academic integrity going back to Dean.

 

[i am herdman]

Football you can argue there needs to be development and they can actually get a degree.

One and done in basketball is new and only put in so that a school like Duke can reap the financial windfall of renting Zion Williamson.

The whole college athletics model is corrupt and it makes billions every year. It isn't about the sport. It's a money making machine.

We can pretend that the rules in place are to protect the student athlete and amateurism, but they're just there to protect the bank accounts of all those that run the show.

Where do these big tv contracts go? They go to conference commissioners, coaches, and expanding college infrastructure. Does the education improve or do the venues for which to be entertained?

It really doesn't change anything. Someone like Oregon gets blank checks to build these enormous locker room/training facilities to attract athletes and they're still paying guys to steer players their way. All this really does is put it all out in the open for what this is.

College football is a minor league for the NFL.

How many players have been suspended over petty crap like double helping at spaghetti dinners, using water hoses connected to university buildings, assistant coaches picking up one of their players in the rain on a golf cart, getting help because their parents died and they're trying to go to school play ball and keep their baby sister, have a transfer voided when they just wanted to move closer to home because their mom is sick. I can keep going.

Look at how VMI tried to extort money from the Elmores.

Coaches can leave at the drop of a dime yet someone like Qunlin Dean can't.

So, like Mike Leach said if we pay them can we cut them on the spot? Lack of performance in first two games? Good bye. Trade you to Western KY for a third round pick? Where does it stop?

 

[GreenDuke]

Totally agree... I watch a lot of ACC baseball living in NC and I watch a lot of Appalachian League it is very clear that the college product is better.

The NCAA has been a scam from the beginning and California has decided to end it... If they get a little help from their friends (other states) doing the same thing then college sports as we know it will be gone in five years or less.

I would submit college ball is better than rookie and A ball.

 

[i am herdman]

I would submit college ball is better than rookie and A ball.

what level of college ball?

 

[cottrell75]

Football you can argue there needs to be development and they can actually get a degree.

One and done in basketball is new and only put in so that a school like Duke can reap the financial windfall of renting Zion Williamson.

The whole college athletics model is corrupt and it makes billions every year. It isn't about the sport. It's a money making machine.

We can pretend that the rules in place are to protect the student athlete and amateurism, but they're just there to protect the bank accounts of all those that run the show.

Where do these big tv contracts go? They go to conference commissioners, coaches, and expanding college infrastructure. Does the education improve or do the venues for which to be entertained?

It really doesn't change anything. Someone like Oregon gets blank checks to build these enormous locker room/training facilities to attract athletes and they're still paying guys to steer players their way. All this really does is put it all out in the open for what this is.

College football is a minor league for the NFL.

How many players have been suspended over petty crap like double helping at spaghetti dinners, using water hoses connected to university buildings, assistant coaches picking up one of their players in the rain on a golf cart, getting help because their parents died and they're trying to go to school play ball and keep their baby sister, have a transfer voided when they just wanted to move closer to home because their mom is sick. I can keep going.

Look at how VMI tried to extort money from the Elmores.

Coaches can leave at the drop of a dime yet someone like Qunlin Dean can't.

So, like Mike Leach said if we pay them can we cut them on the spot? Lack of performance in first two games? Good bye. Trade you to Western KY for a third round pick? Where does it stop?

If they get paid, they should also have to pay for their education and their right to get “paid”.

 

[RhinoD]

I would submit college ball is better than rookie and A ball.

Thats what I was saying... The ACC is better than the Appalachian League rookie ball.

 

[RhinoD]

I have been jumping around to several other schools (everyone from Tennessee, to Pitt, to Boise State and ECU) message boards on my lunch break... Pretty much everyone has the same thoughts on this. California is either going to kill off college athletics in favor of "minor leagues" or they are going to kill off their own programs if everyone else sticks with the NCAA.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

So, like Mike Leach said if we pay them can we cut them on the spot? Lack of performance in first two games? Good bye. Trade you to Western KY for a third round pick? Where does it stop?

They do in some cases now. They can let a player tumble down the roster or move him to Safety/TE like Doc does then they are gone at year's end or earlier. Let's not pretend like coaches don't already have courses of action for players that aren't helping them win.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I have been jumping around to several other schools (everyone from Tennessee, to Pitt, to Boise State and ECU) message boards on my lunch break... Pretty much everyone has the same thoughts on this. California is either going to kill off college athletics in favor of "minor leagues" or they are going to kill off their own programs if everyone else sticks with the NCAA.

They're already getting legal challenges to it. We'll see if schools even start to use this. I don't think we'll see schools openly using this a recruiting tool. Just that players won't be allowed to be ruled ineligible or suspended for taking money. If it is allowed to continue then schools will start setting this stuff up.

Either way it's going to be interesting.

 

[GreenDuke]

what level of college ball?

I know for sure the ACC, SEC, B12, Pac12.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Who in the hell would step up to “pay” athletes at Marshall? West Virginia has no money and Huntington’s population is in decline and not enough wealthy slums who would finance this. As for jobs for athletes in Huntington - what jobs.

 

[RhinoD]

Who in the hell would step up to “pay” athletes at Marshall? West Virginia has no money and Huntington’s population is in decline and not enough wealthy slums who would finance this. As for jobs for athletes in Huntington - what jobs.

I don't doubt that we could find somebody (business owner, booster) to use our QB or star WR in commercials to promote their local business... The kid could make a few grand, get his face time on tv, cool, not a big deal.

The problem is other universities have boosters that would put them on another plane of existence. Phil Knight could pay the top 10 recruits in the country $100,000 each to come to Oregon and "appear" at Nike events without batting an eye. Bam, Oregon is the best team in America in two years or other big universities step up and create a bidding war for high school talent.

The other thing that is going to be an issue is the difference from player to player... If you don't think there will be some hostility and resentment when Jimmy the QB is making $100K a year to sell cars/shoes/steak dinners/etc and the starting defensive tackle is getting $0 and getting hit and beaten on way more every week, you are nuts.

 

[Bankerreturns]

The NCAA has already sent a warning shot before the Gov signed the bill, obviously it didn't deter him. They said that they couldn't allow one state's schools to have an unfair recruiting advantage and that they were risking have California schools excluded from NCAA competition.

 

[johns1124]

He maybe recalled before this actually gets going. Recall Steam is picking up.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Long court fight ahead.

 

[herdalicious]

The issue is let's say you set up a minor league in football. Different levels like A, AA, and AAA. Who is going to go see the games? Nobody.

I'll agree with you that live audiences won't be as great without the links to major state schools, but for the last 5-7 years, the majority of revenue generated by college athletics has been television dollars, not gate revenue. Take every 5-star and 4-star athlete (and pretty much any 3-star that is borderline) and lump them into a 24-team AAA league, you better believe they're gonna have a billion dollar a year TV contract.

I think its a painful thought for a college football fan, but I realize by the time my kids are 40, this thing isn't going to exist, at least not in the form it currently takes. The fall will be shorter for schools like Marshall that are already in the shallow end of the pool, but big state schools in rural places that make college their sports focus (like Alabama and West Virginia) are ffffffff'd. Nobody's putting a pro franchise in Tuscaloosa or Morgantown.

 

[The Real SamC]

That is the other side of this deal. Lots of people have posted about how these coming AAA football and basketball leagues are going to have this “billion dollar TV contract”.

Really? Well how much is the AAA baseball contract? More or less zero. Even though AAA baseball is chock full of the equivalent of “five and four star” recruits.

By tying college names, and, especially in what the lefties call “fly over country” among non-alumni tying state and local pride; and among alumni and students, school pride, into it, the NCAA has figured out a way to market the minor leagues.

I really don’t see 100K people turning up for, nor millions tuning into, the Columbus Red and Grays versus the Suburban Detroit Blue and Golds. I damn sure don’t see much of anyone caring about the Huntington Green and Whites versus the Bowling Green Red and Blacks.

 

[i am herdman]

I'll agree with you that live audiences won't be as great without the links to major state schools, but for the last 5-7 years, the majority of revenue generated by college athletics has been television dollars, not gate revenue. Take every 5-star and 4-star athlete (and pretty much any 3-star that is borderline) and lump them into a 24-team AAA league, you better believe they're gonna have a billion dollar a year TV contract.

I think its a painful thought for a college football fan, but I realize by the time my kids are 40, this thing isn't going to exist, at least not in the form it currently takes. The fall will be shorter for schools like Marshall that are already in the shallow end of the pool, but big state schools in rural places that make college their sports focus (like Alabama and West Virginia) are ffffffff'd. Nobody's putting a pro franchise in Tuscaloosa or Morgantown.

Where are all these minor league teams going to play football? How are they going to hire coaches ?

Nobody watches AAA baseball on tv. Or AA on tv.