More like the B squad since he consistently loses out on the mid major prospects
Does D'Antoni have the dedication to recruit well?
- Thread starter KeatonsCorner
- Start date
More like the B squad since he consistently loses out on the mid major prospects
LOL "history" No he has a history of Postseason Appearances and consistent winning for a program that normally was at the bottom at the SEC before he got there.
And I guess Dunn Martin was such a ball hog that he lead his team to multiple state championship finals appearances and landed multiple D1 offers and signed with a much better basketball program. But hey he is a ball hog.
And what was that opportunity he supposedly "passed" on
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I will say again what I have already said about DD and recruiting.. We have not been to the "big dance since 1987! I have no idea if the team he is putting together will get a title. I do love the style of play,and the fire they have on the court. If this falls on it's face then I say feel free to go back to the other broken model some of you love so much.So far I think we are no worse off and I for one am willing to see where this ends up
Who in their right mind thinks a bunch of B players, playing excellent team basketball THAT CAN SHOOT THE 10 FOOT jumper can beat 2 good A players and 3 B that can drive the lane and dunk it?????
That's simply NOT how basketball is played today. It's how it USED to be played.
Personally I hate teamwork, good shooting and great motion. I'd rather see great athletes dunking the ball and splitting the floor to watch 2 on 2 while the other 3 stand on the other side of the lane. That's NBA and college hoops today and for us not to follow that model is ignorance!!!!!
I hope Dan makes it, great experiment on retro old school hoops. Yeah and I do love B players that play with heart.
First time in 20 years I'm actually intrigued to see the season. Maybe longer , since Hucks days, God rest his soul.
That's simply NOT how basketball is played today. It's how it USED to be played.
Personally I hate teamwork, good shooting and great motion. I'd rather see great athletes dunking the ball and splitting the floor to watch 2 on 2 while the other 3 stand on the other side of the lane. That's NBA and college hoops today and for us not to follow that model is ignorance!!!!!
I hope Dan makes it, great experiment on retro old school hoops. Yeah and I do love B players that play with heart.
First time in 20 years I'm actually intrigued to see the season. Maybe longer , since Hucks days, God rest his soul.
Kelly was a highlight reel but was VERY lazy on defense. In fact so lazy he played very little in the last half of his last game in the conference tournament. He sat right in front of me on the bench. Watching us now is day and night different than last year. We are much, much quicker and much more ball hawkish than last year.
since you are family, I would like know what was Marshall's interest in the Greely kid from Bridgeport last season. Big kid that could shot the three. Seemed like a perfect match for MU's program
yes, I noticed the kids play on defense in the game you mentioned. It was very frustrating to watch Marshall play no defense last year
Recruiting of big men is still a huge question mark for Dan. I have actually heard that they may not bring in any more Euro kids because they just have not worked out. Thompson cant shoot the three so what is his role. Like someone said, if the team plays better defense then they can improve
I've seen just a couple of the 1 hour practices back in September, but I seen some of what you talk about here. There's also more attention to detail on our rotations and effort being an emphasis on the defensive end.
As I've said many times before, he was offered the same deal Burks accepted. Sit a year, get your academics in order and then play.
Boils down to this - a West Virginia All-Star team is not going to get the job done when the ultimate goal is to win CUSA and finally go back to the Dance within my lifetime - not going to happen.
Beginning to think this is nothing more than just something to do before finally retiring , that or figure out a way for Mike to bring him to Houston and make more money doing basically nothing.
Beginning to think this is nothing more than just something to do before finally retiring , that or figure out a way for Mike to bring him to Houston and make more money doing basically nothing.
Who in their right mind thinks a bunch of B players, playing excellent team basketball THAT CAN SHOOT THE 10 FOOT jumper can beat 2 good A players and 3 B that can drive the lane and dunk it?????
That's simply NOT how basketball is played today. It's how it USED to be played.
Personally I hate teamwork, good shooting and great motion. I'd rather see great athletes dunking the ball and splitting the floor to watch 2 on 2 while the other 3 stand on the other side of the lane. That's NBA and college hoops today and for us not to follow that model is ignorance!!!!!
I hope Dan makes it, great experiment on retro old school hoops. Yeah and I do love B players that play with heart.
First time in 20 years I'm actually intrigued to see the season. Maybe longer , since Hucks days, God rest his soul.
Do you even watch Mid-major College Basketball?
We are never going to compete against UK, Duke, Kansas, etc.......
Watch Davidson, Belmont, Harvard, UNI, BYU, etc......They don't have elite athletes. They force teams to play actual 5 on 5 basketball. They all shoot the 3, move the ball and play team defense.
It's where we hope to get.......I saw some baby steps in those areas last year. Hoping to see some larger steps this season.
Dan was already offered that opportunity and chose to stay where he is........And he hardly did "nothing" when working for Mike in the NBA. Just ask some of the players he worked with.
Actually Harvard has signed a few high 3 and 4 stars lately and 2 of our better recruits just committed to Davidson and Belmont. BYU also signs higher level recruits and all those programs have head coaches who don't quit when it comes to recruiting. Also those programs have some of the best coaches in College Basketball, better than D'Antoni could ever dream to be.
So once again, we recruit the B squad.
Our defense wasn't good last year, but I think a few things get left out in these conversations.
1) Our pace of play doesn't help the final score. We're not going to hold teams in the 60s. If we did, we would have the best defensive efficiency numbers in college basketball. Basketball is changing to a higher scoring game the same way football did when teams started going to spread offenses and the rules changed to benefit offensive play. You have to go all the way down to the 237th ranked team (2015-2016 season) in pts/gm to find teams who didn't average at least 70 pts/gm. JUST ONE YEAR PRIOR (2014-2015), Purdue ranked 82nd in pts/gm with 69.9.
2) Last year was Dan's second season as head coach. He had 7 players he could rely on and 5 of those guys were new to the program. We didn't have the depth to swarm on the defensive end. Both from an energy and a foul trouble standpoint. Dan isn't going to play great defense anyway because of what we're looking to do on the offensive end, but there are other reasons besides that as to why we were bad on defense last season. Lacking depth was a big one.
I understand the concern with the defense, but if we play at a fast pace and win 94-90 or play at a slow pace and win 74-70, what's the difference? The game is changing, folks.
1) Our pace of play doesn't help the final score. We're not going to hold teams in the 60s. If we did, we would have the best defensive efficiency numbers in college basketball. Basketball is changing to a higher scoring game the same way football did when teams started going to spread offenses and the rules changed to benefit offensive play. You have to go all the way down to the 237th ranked team (2015-2016 season) in pts/gm to find teams who didn't average at least 70 pts/gm. JUST ONE YEAR PRIOR (2014-2015), Purdue ranked 82nd in pts/gm with 69.9.
2) Last year was Dan's second season as head coach. He had 7 players he could rely on and 5 of those guys were new to the program. We didn't have the depth to swarm on the defensive end. Both from an energy and a foul trouble standpoint. Dan isn't going to play great defense anyway because of what we're looking to do on the offensive end, but there are other reasons besides that as to why we were bad on defense last season. Lacking depth was a big one.
I understand the concern with the defense, but if we play at a fast pace and win 94-90 or play at a slow pace and win 74-70, what's the difference? The game is changing, folks.
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The first part of your statement is exactly what you and many posters don't understand what we are up against.
You are a reasonably touted 2-3-4 Star recruit.....You have offers from Harvard, Belmont, Davidson, & Marshall. 3 of these schools offer high academic opportunities. 3 of these schools have been to the NCAA's multiple times in the last 44 years. 3 of these schools are located in places you might actually like to live post college.
Schools like Marshall have 3 choices.....1) Cheat 2) Roll the dice on risky recruits (ie: The Herrion Plan) 3) Recruit under-appreciated talent and try to develop it within your system.......Remember, this isn't football. You don't have 20-25 scholarships each year, you've got 3 maybe 4.
Huck was reasonably successful using parts of #1 & #2.......Herrion went straight #2 and look what it got us.
I'm willing to give this method a shot......Despite their record, Dan's teams of the last two years have been teams I have been proud of.....Not just as players but as young men.
I get it.....It's year 3 (Really 2) and it's time to start seeing some progress. I personally think the win total will be about the same. I'm hoping to see progress on the court that we can judge with our eyes.
And Dan has been coach for 2 of those......Let's cut him some slack.
why bothering saying it's been 44 years since we went to the ncaa tournament when that's factually incorrect?
btw, i haven't commented on dan in this thread.
Ironic you chose those teams......
Davidson - well, there Luke Frampton for one. He's sharing the class with an ESPN 4-star PG
Belmont - Caleb Hollinger, who chose them over MU as well, sits in their 2017 class alongside an ESPN 3-star SF who had offers from a host of mid majors.
UNI - one recruit in their 2017 class with offers from Air Force and ND, but was being scouted by multiple P5 programs
BYU - well......... they get the best baskteball players Mormonism can provide. MU will never be in their ballpark in terms of recruiting
meanwhile, MU's 2017 class' biggest competitor for recruits is Longwood College.
Dan is not getting it done on the recruiting trail.......... that's just a fact.
And in terms of this season's team............. they may be "faster" or "ball-hawky" but they can't defend (one of the worst in America last season) and without James Kelly, they can't rebound.............. and that hurts when you're a team that shoots nearly half its FG attempts from an distance where only 32% go in, as a team........
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Ask Chris Duhon, Leandro Barbosa (ex Warrior---now his 3rd stint with the Phoenix Sun), Carmelo Anthony, Steve Nash......what they think of Dan and how he helped advance their NBA careers. He was not doing "nothing" during his NBA coaching career.
Dan is going to be ticked off at me because he has instructed me to stay off Marshall message boards when it relates to topics about him. I am not sharing "private information" with any of you. This is confidential between us!!!! I am merely stating the facts. I said from day 1....DAN was the better selection of the two D'Antoni brothers for the Marshall job. Mike prefers the NBA. Dan has a history of working with 17-21 year old guys, helping them learn to make the high school to college transition. He has over 500 high school wins in his resume....and last year Marshall was in position to be the # 1 Seed on the last regular season game. As the No 4 seed...The Herd lost to tourney winner, MTSU in the semi-finals. The Racers upset Michigan State in round one of the NCAA tournament.
Dan recently moved into a beautiful home he had built, high on a mountain top overlooking Huntington to Teas Valley. He and his wife & daughter love Huntington. His father turns 102 soon, his sister & younger brother reside nearby. Houston is Mike's new second home (he resides near The Greenbrier).
Dan & his coaching/recruiting staff are giving West Virginia kids "hope" to play in their home state...nothing more, nothing less. Assistant Coach Mark Cline is credited with being The Herd's top recruiter along with Assistants, Duhon & Rigot. Dan has final say-so....nothing more---nothing less.
I recently asked Coach Cline if he recruits Charlotte---a hot bed for college basketball players. His answer: "After the ACC & SEC & notable college basketball Top 30 teams sign the top 5-7 Charlotte area guys.....and now that Charlotte's Coach Mark Price is getting some Queen City players....the rest of the talent level is no better than the TOP 3-4 West Virginia kids." "As our program continues to improve---more kids locally (Ohio, Ky, Maryland) & nationally (NY, Indiana) will find Marshall to be attractive." "Making the tournaments during March Madness is paramount to get kids to want to come to Huntington." "Top players want to be seen on TV...they want to play at programs that consistently play after the regular season concludes"....."Marshall has not been to the Big Dance since 1987......our overall NCAA record (1956--1987) is 0-5."
Facts don't lie......Marshall (once a noted basketball school) is now a football school because of the movie---WE Are--Marshall and our top winning record during the 1990s (Two I-AA titles and success beginning in 1966 as Div.-1 to the present).
Rome was not built nor re-built in a day. Wichita State was not a house hold name in basketball until ex-Herd assistant, Greg Marshall (1996-98). After a successful stay at Winthrop (Rock Hill, SC) he was hired in April 2007 to rebuild the Shockers basketball program. During his 4th season with the Shockers...he led them to the NIT Championship, defeating Alabama in the finals. It was 2012 (year 5) before Wichita State received an at large bid to the NCAA. Five years it took----with a large basketball budget......FOLKS, GET A GRIP!
Back to my points...............
Coach Cline added...."Marshall University & the fan support in Huntington is very good." "Look at our football program...a large majority of players hail from Florida." "During the Louisville football game....we had several recruits in town to witness the support the football team receives." "Doc & his staff entertained football recruits last season at several of our home basketball games." "Solid recruiting depends on the fan support from the other sports team on campus."
Folks, take a look in your mirror. What are YOU doing to help attract top level basketball recruits to want to GET THEIR EDUCATION at Marshall while showcasing their basketball talents?
Being critical of a basketball coach & his recruiting staff ......that are entering their 3rd season on the job is not a positive part of the puzzle. If you think that recruits do not read social media...you have your head up your ass!
It's time to be positive and get on Board.....It is going to be a fun ride---once the train loads up and leaves the station.
HerdZilla22 (Gary Sweeney) in Charlotte
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29 years is really bad but when you start adding up the teams that have made the tournament since Marshall last appeared in 1987, the number is getting close to 300. I'm afraid that many fans who remember Marshall as a relevant or "national" program are few and far between.
"and last year was the first 20+ win season for HERD Hoops in quite a while."
in the same paragraph as "I'm only stating the facts"
Actually, MU had a two 20+ win seasons with the previous coach...
HerdZilla............. laughing at you, man.
and this:
"After a successful stay at Winthrop (Rock Hill, SC) he was hired in April 2007 to rebuild the Shockers basketball program."
Wichita State won their league in 2006 and went to the NCAA Tournament where they went to the Sweet 16............... the following year, 2007, they reached as high as a top 10 AP poll ranking during the season.
But Gregg Marshall was hired to "rebuild" their program in 2007? LOL
in the same paragraph as "I'm only stating the facts"
Actually, MU had a two 20+ win seasons with the previous coach...
HerdZilla............. laughing at you, man.
and this:
"After a successful stay at Winthrop (Rock Hill, SC) he was hired in April 2007 to rebuild the Shockers basketball program."
Wichita State won their league in 2006 and went to the NCAA Tournament where they went to the Sweet 16............... the following year, 2007, they reached as high as a top 10 AP poll ranking during the season.
But Gregg Marshall was hired to "rebuild" their program in 2007? LOL
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The bolded point was our problem last season. We were a terribly inefficient offense. A lot of that had to do with our offense not functioning without a PG before Elmore was able to play (James Kelly wasn't nearly the player before Elmore.)
We were one of the worst efficient 3pt shooting teams and one of the most efficient teams from inside the 3pt line. A stat that goes against what most people think about the 2015-2016 basketball team. A lot of that has to do with how teams tried to run us off the 3pt line and we got a lot of backdoor cuts and ally-oops for easy uncontested baskets. But the 3pt shooting % has to get better this season.
Sorry Mr Perfect, I forgot our game against TCU in the 80's. It's been so long since we've been relevant.
To DUNCE KeatonsCorner---------Yes, Tom H. did win 20+ games twice...sorry, I did not give him credit for winning 20 + games with Donnie J's recruits. And YES Greg Marshall was hired to RE-BUILD a struggling Wichita State program.....Marshall is the winingest head coach in Shockers history (221 wins) and the winingest coach in Winthrop history (194 wins).......YES Greg is a RE-BUILDER.
Give Dan a Chance....Rome was not built in a day.....
HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
Actually, at first I assumed he was a sure fire redshirt. We have to redshirt 2 players, but he has really come on. I still believe he may redshirt just to get bigger. I also believe Allison will RS only because of our guard depth.
Yep, my bad. totally forgot. LOL! I kept thinking the 71-72 season was the last time. WOW, what a senior moment. ugh!
He really likes all 3 that we have now. He belives that with 3 years remaining Aleksa will be a player. He still has big hopes for Ajdin
the '87 was vacated i believe, so technically 32 seasons? like i said above, 29, 32, 44, whatever, neither is good, haha.
in 1987, in our pod of games navy, lead by david robinson played michigan. the point guard at navy at that time was doug wojcik.
On Williams: I thought the same thing when we signed him. However, when I seen him a few weeks ago, I was very surprised with how he can make plays at the rim. He's quick, long, and he can get up. You're right about him being thin and a year in the weight room would do him a lot of good, but he plays more physical than you would think his body would allow. He can absorb contact, which is what Penava is still struggling with.
On Allison: I see a kid who's thinking too much out there and isn't familiar/comfortable with the reads in our system. I think it would be more beneficial for him to play through those struggles and learn this year. We're also going to be without Burks for a lot of the Non-conference portion of our schedule. I think Allison could turn into a heck of a player when March rolls around.
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Recruiting reality:
Assuming a kid is not local or has other attachment to Marshall, this is what we offer:
- By far the most spread out mid-major conference, stretching out over three time zones. 2000 miles east to west, 1000 miles north to south. Team may, or may not, travel charter. At least some of the time in the last few years, bus to Charleston, split up among different airlines, layover, hope everybody shows up, bus to game, bus to second city, repeat to return home. At least some of the time in the last few years, bus to places like Murfreesboro or Virginia Beach. Contrasted to leagues at similar level that cover two or three states.
- League exists because the schools are (perhaps were is a better word) at the same level in football. If football did not exist, there is no way anybody in Huntington would have ever thought twice about 3/4th of league "rivals".
- Arena, which was not exactly Madison Square Garden when built, is 35 years old and, while the part the public does not see has been somewhat upgraded, looks 35 years old and has 35 years of grime on its once white interior surfaces.
- A team that has not made the NCAAs in the lifetime of any recruit or most of their parents.
- A fan base that is, well, old.
A kid good enough to play at Marshall is good enough to play at any of 100 other schools at the same level without all, or any, of the above issues. So recruiting is always going to be problematical. So DD goes the route of getting kids with a link to the area. What do you expect him to do? Why would you, everything being equal, choose Marshall over _____ in the _____ conference?
Assuming a kid is not local or has other attachment to Marshall, this is what we offer:
- By far the most spread out mid-major conference, stretching out over three time zones. 2000 miles east to west, 1000 miles north to south. Team may, or may not, travel charter. At least some of the time in the last few years, bus to Charleston, split up among different airlines, layover, hope everybody shows up, bus to game, bus to second city, repeat to return home. At least some of the time in the last few years, bus to places like Murfreesboro or Virginia Beach. Contrasted to leagues at similar level that cover two or three states.
- League exists because the schools are (perhaps were is a better word) at the same level in football. If football did not exist, there is no way anybody in Huntington would have ever thought twice about 3/4th of league "rivals".
- Arena, which was not exactly Madison Square Garden when built, is 35 years old and, while the part the public does not see has been somewhat upgraded, looks 35 years old and has 35 years of grime on its once white interior surfaces.
- A team that has not made the NCAAs in the lifetime of any recruit or most of their parents.
- A fan base that is, well, old.
A kid good enough to play at Marshall is good enough to play at any of 100 other schools at the same level without all, or any, of the above issues. So recruiting is always going to be problematical. So DD goes the route of getting kids with a link to the area. What do you expect him to do? Why would you, everything being equal, choose Marshall over _____ in the _____ conference?
