Does D'Antoni have the dedication to recruit well?

[caliherd]

Wow this thread is awesome 100s of posts talking about and questioning Marshall basketball recruiting. Many of the posts made by a WVU super fan which is just so odd I don't even know where to start.

But here's the thing folks let Dan try it his way. It's hilarious to hear some of you talk like Marshall had this awesome basketball tradition where 5 star recruits were coming in left and right and that by how Dan is recruiting it is being ruined. We literally have not been nationally relevant since the early 70s.

Yes Hucks era was fun but we were in the Southern Conference and we did not win any post season games we were in when Huck was here. 0-2 in the NCAA and 0-1 in the NIT, a game by the way at the Henderson Center. We were hardly a nationally known commodity. Heck Bruce Morris's shot got us more national attention than the SC championships and large number of wins we had during that era.

It's not like Dans style of recruiting and play if it fails is going to damage our huge hoop history. We survived Dwight Freeman, we survived Ron Jirsa, we can survive Dan and if he doesn't work out we will get somebody else in here to give it a shot. I for one am kind of excited about where this goes and if he fails what have we lost somebody coming in and rebuilding again it seems we would be used to that by now in hoops.

 

[5150]

Wow this thread is awesome 100s of posts talking about and questioning Marshall basketball recruiting. Many of the posts made by a WVU super fan which is just so odd I don't even know where to start.

But here's the thing folks let Dan try it his way. It's hilarious to hear some of you talk like Marshall had this awesome basketball tradition where 5 star recruits were coming in left and right and that by how Dan is recruiting it is being ruined. We literally have not been nationally relevant since the early 70s.

Yes Hucks era was fun but we were in the Southern Conference and we did not win any post season games we were in when Huck was here. 0-2 in the NCAA and 0-1 in the NIT, a game by the way at the Henderson Center. We were hardly a nationally known commodity. Heck Bruce Morris's shot got us more national attention than the SC championships and large number of wins we had during that era.

It's not like Dans style of recruiting and play if it fails is going to damage our huge hoop history. We survived Dwight Freeman, we survived Ron Jirsa, we can survive Dan and if he doesn't work out we will get somebody else in here to give it a shot. I for one am kind of excited about where this goes and if he fails what have we lost somebody coming in and rebuilding again it seems we would be used to that by now in hoops.

Make no mistake, that super fan is buds with Ron Everhart who wanted the Marshall job.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Pace doesn't increase possessions? If that's the case, how do the Golden State Warriors rank 4th in NBA defensive efficiency, yet rank 19th in pts allowed/game? That wouldn't be because pace increases the amount of possessions, would it?

Never did I say pace doesn't dictate possession amount........... I said that pace is not what caused MU Basketball to have so many possessions. Their swiss cheese defense did............. ranked in the 10 worst defenses in college basketball last season.

Easy to get possessions when you let the guy go right past you 5 seconds into the shot clock.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

You, sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. I have attended nearly every practice and they have devoted hours to defense. With Kelly gone, our interior defense will be greatly improved

You've posted this on repeat............. but never explain in any way how the defense will be better without the only interior presence the roster had last season.... losing the only player that attacked the defensive glass is not going to make you a better defensive team either.

Short of the MTSU game in the CUSA tournament, Kelly was easily the best defender on the team last season. Short of Burks, the guards don't have the foot speed to stay in front of ball handlers (especially Loop). Your senior captain (Taylor) lived in foul trouble all season (4/game) and will be called upon to guard bigger post players this season with no Kelly present.

 

[herd4life5 (HN)]

Look, dumbass, we want them shooting quickly. We could sit back in a zone or lay back in a m/m and be more effective defensively, but that's not what Marshall does. We want possessions. You can disagree with the style all you want to, but you're explanation of why we have so many possessions just means you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Look, dumbass, we want them shooting quickly. We could sit back in a zone or lay back in a m/m and be more effective defensively, but that's not what Marshall does. We want possessions. You can disagree with the style all you want to, but you're explanation of why we have so many possessions just means you don't know what you're talking about.

Ever consider that, when your defense is one of the worst in America, maybe your "style" is wrong and unsuccessful?

Saying "this is what we want" when you have one of the worst defense in the NCAA is just a coping mechanism, really. No, Dan does not want his players to allow some of the highest points-per-game averages in 2016........ I know that for a fact.

Until MU puts emphasis on stopping people, they're not going to succeed, because they aren't good enough shooters (see FG% in 2016) to out-shoot people and they don't rebound it well enough to cover for that either.

But, again, the question comes back around to recruiting........... if Dan "wants the possessions" then why did he just sign two kids in West and Robinette who are NOT known for their perimeter shooting. West is known for being a stable PG and good decision maker, but not a perimeter or offensive threat. Robinette is a low post presence who's used his physical size to overpower his single-A opponents in VA until now (he was 6'7, 270lbs last season).

 

[The Real SamC]

Yes Hucks era was fun but we were in the Southern Conference and we did not win any post season games we were in when Huck was here. 0-2 in the NCAA and 0-1 in the NIT, a game by the way at the Henderson Center. We were hardly a nationally known commodity. Heck Bruce Morris's shot got us more national attention than the SC championships and large number of wins we had during that era.

Here is the thing. Huck has been dead for 10 years. Huck has been out of the HC coaching office for TWENTY EIGHT YEARS. There have been SEVEN coaches in-between him and DD.

But still people want to talk about it. Because we have not done a damn thing since. Coach after coach, all variations on the same theme. Retread losers, rising stars that bail out of Dodge quickly, and tragicly inept first-timers, and now the "Son of Marshall back home to make things right" again, just like White.

Think about that. The "good ole days" in MU basketball is 30 years ago, losing in the first round of the NCAAs after winning a one-bid league made up of rediculious military schools, over-grown teacher's college in the NC and Tenn mountains and a Duke wannabe. THAT is the "good ole days".

The HC, never exactly Madison Square Garden, has aged poorly and cable TV (there was just one ESPN in 84, and it was mostly showing Aussie Rules football and drag racing and most people did not even get it) has made it so that there are 15 other games to watch every night, dwindling our live gate to old folks and a few students. The records have ranged from dog-awful to mediocre to "pretty good".

And we hope to be "pretty good" once again. In a league made up for football where half the teams play in what can only be called a gym and basketball is about as important as soccer or golf.

Rah. Pretty good. Cannot wait.

 

[CockyHerd]

I'm still can't believe we are picking apart a team that was picked to finish 9th in CUSA last year but finished tied for 3rd......A team that was given enough respect to be chosen preseason 4th this year.

I can only hope that this is coming from the vocal few and that the fans that came out last year will be there come December, supporting this team.

If we had social media during the White, Freeman, Jirsa years, people might have gotten arrested.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

I'm still can't believe we are picking apart a team that was picked to finish 9th in CUSA last year but finished tied for 3rd......A team that was given enough respect to be chosen preseason 4th this year.

I can only hope that this is coming from the vocal few and that the fans that came out last year will be there come December, supporting this team.

If we had social media during the White, Freeman, Jirsa years, people might have gotten arrested.

CUSA ranked 28th out of the 32 D1-A leagues last season when MU finished 3rd......... you really think that's going to happen again?

And there ain't a James Kelly on the roster right now either...

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

CUSA ranked 28th out of the 32 D1-A leagues last season when MU finished 3rd......... you really think that's going to happen again?

And there ain't a James Kelly on the roster right now either...

Where do you see CUSA being ranked 28th?

Here they were 21st: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

Here 22nd: http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

21st again here: http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/conferencerpi

And yes, many of us do expect a similar finish this year. As do the members of the media whose job it is to cover the conference on a daily basis.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Where do you see CUSA being ranked 28th?

Here they were 21st: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

Here 22nd: http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

21st again here: http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/conferencerpi

And yes, many of us do expect a similar finish this year. As do the members of the media whose job it is to cover the conference on a daily basis.

Your links include the post season, which due to MTSU allowed CUSA to pass some of the low-major conferences whose teams lost in the first round of the NCAAs

I was speaking solely of the end-of-regular season rankings, as MU did not enter into the post season.


And my question of "do you expect the same this year" was pertaining to the quality, or lack there of, of the CUSA.......... a usual middle-of-the-pack basketball conference. Last season, there were teams like LaTech going through coaching change transition years who usually are above average programs.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Your links include the post season, which due to MTSU allowed CUSA to pass some of the low-major conferences whose teams lost in the first round of the NCAAs

I was speaking solely of the end-of-regular season rankings, as MU did not enter into the post season.


And my question of "do you expect the same this year" was pertaining to the quality, or lack there of, of the CUSA.......... a usual middle-of-the-pack basketball conference

Fairly certain that's not true. TeamRankings.com lets you pick any date during the season and on 12/1 CUSA was #19; 1/1 #21; 2/1 #22; and 3/1 #22.

While down, that's not ALL that much of a drop from 2014-2015 when the conference hovered in the 16-18 range.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

I've said all along it will be hard to replicate Kelly's production from last year. Hope I am dead wrong though. Couple that with a more difficult OOC, I see a worse record than last year.

I really wonder about the 2017-18 season and having to replace Taylor, Browning and Loop. Burkes can take Browning's spot; but the other two?

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

I've said all along it will be hard to replicate Kelly's production from last year. Hope I am dead wrong though. Couple that with a more difficult OOC, I see a worse record than last year.

I really wonder about the 2017-18 season and having to replace Taylor, Browning and Loop. Burkes can take Browning's spot; but the other two?

I'm not sure our OOC is more difficult. Looks about the same as last year.

Remember we didn't have Elmore for a large chunk of our OOC schedule last year. If we had, I think we win at least a handful more. That would put us in the 20-13 range, which is where I see us ending up this year.

As far as 2017 goes, Taylor will be the most difficult senior to replace. Gotta hope Phil Bledsoe develops into something. Also, don't forget about Rondale Watson.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Sean Hammond last time I checked Marshall University played in the NCAA - NOT in the NBA. Your comment regarding pace and the Golden State Warriors is a moot point. These guys are college players and primarily from WV and not with the size of the Golden State Warriors.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Sean Hammond last time I checked Marshall University played in the NCAA - NOT in the NBA. Your comment regarding pace and the Golden State Warriors is a moot point. These guys are college players and primarily from WV and not with the size of the Golden State Warriors.

Last time I checked they were both playing the game of basketball.

Explain to me how a team ranked 4th in defensive efficiency can rank 19th in points allowed? Pace affects the score at the end of the game. It isn't a moot point.

But if you want to stick to college, since I guess it's a completely different species of sport from the NBA, how did a team who averaged 70 pts/game in the 2015-16 season rank (Syracuse) rank 236th in scoring, while a team who averaged 70 pts/game in the 2014-15 season (Sacramento St) ranked 81st? Did the rule changes to increase flow & pace make that much of a difference? Or is there some other reason I'm not aware of?

 

[Herd1972]

Cool Story Bro but who cares. People only care about wins and losses and recruiting talent players. He hasnt done either

You mean "I only care about wins and losses and recruiting talented players". I guess we will see about whether he as done either, as time will give us an answer.

 

[Herd Fever]

Look, dumbass, we want them shooting quickly. We could sit back in a zone or lay back in a m/m and be more effective defensively, but that's not what Marshall does. We want possessions. You can disagree with the style all you want to, but you're explanation of why we have so many possessions just means you don't know what you're talking about.

That is the dumbest scheme in the history of basketball. Might as well not even play defense

 

[CockyHerd]

This is the old.....People are so pissed about football, they are trashing the basketball team before the season even starts.

 

[MARSHALL77]

Cocky you have hit the nail on the head in many respects , I will expand ...lol.

What history - more like the bible story of 40 years of wandering the earth.

Budget - one of the most under funded schools going to supposedly be Division 1

Facilities - actually in the scope of things its time to build a new basketball arena as the aging butterfly is close to losing her wings...but ( back to the budget) when we can not afford to build a top flight baseball complex that pretty much tells you that nothing will take place with a replacement arena.

Add to that the football stadium is not exactly in the greatest of shape , you can add as was done regarding the boxes but the over all appearance is poor.

Academics - has improved , but still lacking in many of the disciplines.

Huntington - whew - grew up in Huntington as well..what a mess of a place for sure economically challenged at best unless you are in the drug business , riddled by crime and looking more an more like a blighted area minute by minute. It is really a town of haves and have not's with nothing or not much in the middle.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Is there an end to this thread?

 

[The Real SamC]

What an argument. Pretty good. Good enough. Be proud of 3rd place in conference number 28. No, really it is number 22. Maybe we will go 20-13.

Rah Rah Rah.

Pretty good.

Not awful.

Maybe we can be 4th!!!!!

 

[Tim Hensley]

Just who in the Hell is this KeatonsCorner? An 'Eer troll, no doubt. In all my years of being on this site, I've never seen an outsider come on here and go on and on with such meaningless bullshit and blather about our basketball recruiting. Why would you want to push your best assistant on us when he can immediately step in and replace Chuggins when he drunkenly falls off that dunce stool he sits his big fat ass on and breaks his neck?

 

[MARSHALL77]

Marshall's historic NCAA record....have to let the 1987 appearance fall by the wayside so..it will be 31 years since an unblemished appearance at The Dance - all one and done's- heck WVU has more Sweet 16 appearances than we have total appearances even counting the vacated 1987 appearance.

NCAA Tournament appearances
1956, 1972, 1984, 1985, 1987*
*vacated by NCAA

Appears the mighty CUSA has not released their pre-season hoops poll , probably will not until around February 2017..lol

So - as a comparison here is the Big 12's preseason hoops poll as well as WVU's history regarding The Dance.

Quite a difference , Huggins ( say what you want to about him) gets results as the tournament record indicates.



2016-17 Big 12 Preseason Poll

Team (First-place votes) Points
1. Kansas (9)* 81
2. West Virginia 65
3. Texas 59
4. Iowa State (1) 56
5. Baylor 53
6. Oklahoma 40
7. Oklahoma State 32
Texas Tech 32
9. Kansas State 20
10. TCU 12


NCAA Tournament appearances
1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1967, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1989, 1992, 1998, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016

NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1959, 1960, 1963, 1998, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2015

NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1959, 2005, 2010

NCAA Tournament Final Four
1959, 2010

NCAA Tournament runner-up
1959

Not trying to start anything with anyone but when people want to take shots at programs that are historically more successful than ours..might want to check the records before you unload.

 

[herd4life5 (HN)]

That is the dumbest scheme in the history of basketball. Might as well not even play defense

An idiot would come up with the same conclusion that you just did.

I'm not arguing for a tempo or style, I'm just saying how it is. For our purposes, the quicker the shots for the opponent the better; make them as difficult as possible, but make them be quick and possibly pull them out of their comfort zone offensively

 

[Herdmeister]

I really wonder about the 2017-18 season and having to replace Taylor, Browning and Loop. Burkes can take Browning's spot; but the other two?

Allison. Watson and West will be added to the guard rotation. Bledsoe and Williams will be replacements in the middle.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

so the future of MU Basketball's post play is 6'5 Phil Bledsoe.........

 

[Herdmeister]

so the future of MU Basketball's post play is 6'5 Phil Bledsoe.........

You needn't worry about it... Most of us love our coach and his Hall of Fame family. You worry about your coach staying sober and not falling off his dunce stool.

 

[pdbailey]

That is the dumbest scheme in the history of basketball. Might as well not even play defense

Worked pretty well for Loyola Marymount for a while.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

but yet Levi Cook wasn't good enough for an offer.......................... meanwhile 6'5 Bledsoe is manning the post in the future..

not sure why some are bringing WVU's coach into this.......... The thread is obviously about MU Basketball recruiting, and how Dan is falling behind the CUSA pack.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

but yet Levi Cook wasn't good enough for an offer.......................... meanwhile 6'5 Bledsoe is manning the post in the future..

Williams, Robinette and hopefully Bennett will be manning the post in the future. Bledsoe is just as big as Taylor and will be a 4 in Dan's system.

 

[GreenDuke]

Channel 3 reports Bennett has committed.

 

[Herd Fever]

Worked pretty well for Loyola Marymount for a while.

Why do you always do that? What worked for other schools don't mean shit for us here at Marshall.

Point blank defense wins championships and allowing teams to get shots up as fast as possible proves our coach is comfortable not playing defense and that worries me.

Mediocre basketball will continue.

 

[Herd Fever]

You needn't worry about it... Most of us love our coach and his Hall of Fame family. You worry about your coach staying sober and not falling off his dunce stool.

Hall of Fame???? Where??

 

[Rock98Dog]

Iran Bennett is not a MU basketball commit, but appears to be drifting far, far away from Marshall on the recruiting trail.

Really? Glad I can count on you for cutting edge recruiting info..

 

[19MU88]

Really? Glad I can count on you for cutting edge recruiting info..

So Keaton is a dumbass after all

 

[Herdmeister]

Hall of Fame???? Where??

Surelng

Hall of Fame???? Where??

Surely you're kidding. With 3 family members in the HoF, I think they are the First Family of Marshall athletics. Andy in 1940, Danny 1990 and Mike in 1997.

 

[HaveYouHerd22]

Keaton what happened to Bennett straying far from Marshall?? Truth about Keaton is, he is hoping beyond hope that we fail. His best buddy Ron Everhart couldn't get the job he wanted, so he's hoping for another crack at it. ESPN has Bennett as a 4* guy. Good get for Dan.

 

[Tim Hensley]

Let's talk a little Stephen F. Austin...

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Keaton what happened to Bennett straying far from Marshall?? Truth about Keaton is, he is hoping beyond hope that we fail. His best buddy Ron Everhart couldn't get the job he wanted, so he's hoping for another crack at it. ESPN has Bennett as a 4* guy. Good get for Dan.

I have no connection to Everhart........ not sure where that came from?

As for Bennett.......... if I could predict what 18 year olds were thinking, I'd be a billionaire.

But explain to me how signing a 6'9 325lbs kid "fits Dan's system" in any way shape or form.................

in 2017, when these recruits arrive.......... you have just lost Browning, Loop, and Taylor.... and Elmore is out the door at the end of the season too................. that's a lot of scorers leaving, especially from the perimeter.

And he signs 2 bigs and a PG who doesn't shoot it well from deep.

ESPN also has Bennett as a 3 star recruit in 2016. Not a single scouting service has him as a 4 star..........


The signing of Bennett completely takes away the argument of "Levi Cook didn't fit the system" because Bennett is LITERALLY a carbon copy, skillwise.......... and 30lbs heavier, if not more. His weight is 100% reason why the major programs stayed away....... in 2016, when he was only about 270-280lbs, he was getting the attention of P5 programs. He's going to need a redshirt year to even get in game shape for Dan's "style"